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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1351102 times)
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August 24, 2014, 09:54:26 AM
 #14141

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1. Why should I take the risk of using vericoin if I already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?

wow, you don't even know how much fee PayPal charges for their randomly freezing money system.
Everybody with 5 fingers on his hand should understand that you are just talking trash.

Well I have always used Paypal and never payed a cent for doing so... no idea what you´re talking about. Could you explain me what "randomly freezing money system" is about instead of trolling and insulting...

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

well, I don't know if you are just not the smartest out there or just don't want to understand how this world works.

Either way you pay the fee. The Merchant will just charge the fee hidden in the price you pay.
Do you really think just because you are not charged for the fee you are not going to pay it in the end?

You should really start to think beyond the doors you life in and understand what is behind all this marketing billion $ company shit.

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August 24, 2014, 09:58:12 AM
 #14142

World Crypto Network YouTube channel on the NXT hack.  Chris Ellis said,

"And bear in mind it wasn't even their (NXT) fault.  And to their credit, they didn't go with what Vericoin did with a very very rollback and a very very dishonest way of running a coin.  So they kind of at least did the right thing as a coin."

"So, all of the customers got their money back.  Bter said that they were going to pay everyone back.  So they're the ones taking the hit. Because if that's true, then that's the best outcome. That's the lessons to take away..."

http://youtu.be/ptQGRyOx_Ew?t=20m40s



Umm, NXT hack was not a security issue to the blockchain. Very little damage done with 5% stolen from a POS coin versus 30% in the case of the VeriCoin theft. The shoe doesn't fit. Comparing apples and oranges. etc.etc.

"And bear in mind it wasn't even their (NXT) fault" is he Suggesting mintpal hack was vericoins fault ?
Also the stated about 5% vs 30 % appels oranges  more like appels and mellons. also they would hold enough to possibly attack the coin with 30% .
Can Chris Ellis point out the ones that where dishonestly threated due to the rollback besides the holders of the 30% stolen coin?
Id like to add that i think its great that Bter is paying back their customers ( i think they and many others have seen what happend to Mintpal volume after the hack.
Either Chris Ellis Doesnt know what hes talking about (wich i dont think is the case)or he is purposly leaving out Vital information that makes all the difference in the NXT vs VRC hack, it doesnt make him a Liar but telling the "truth" in such away doesnt make him much better then one either.





The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke -- May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.George Carlin
We pay for life with death , so everything in between should be free. Bill Hicks -- It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light. Aristotle
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment. Buddha -- The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. Socrates
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August 24, 2014, 11:42:56 AM
 #14143


@altcoinUK: Well bro, I have a feeling, that you are already lost to the dark side of BobPlop and gang. Your point of
                  view regarding importance of blockchain2 is simply wrong. Vericoin does not need
                  blockchain2 on itself. It can use existing platforms like ripple, stellar and what else is going to get
                  realized on this field. I feel like you are just annoyed, that your point does not get the dev´s and
                  community´s attention you had hoped for.
            

As for I am annoyed that my idea doesn't get attention, yes personally I think apart from BTC the blockchain 2 coins are the future, but there are other coins which I have invested (Ethereum, Viacoin, 2 other smart-contract start-ups that are not altcoins and not public yet and waiting for the Skycoin IPO as well), so there is no annoyance from me regarding to the reception of my suggestions -  I have plenty other opportunities to be involved with blockchain 2. To be honest what is important to me that the devs start to implement anything that works, like implement a rolling doughnut hole in the wallet so users can take a flying fuck into the doughnut hole, because from publicity and mass adoption viewpoint that would be more useful feature than the current delusional worldwide mass adoption theme and its useless, lame VISA card idea.

Terms of the technicality, I appreciate your comments, but we have never discussed the implementation details of blockchain 2 here, so I am not sure how do you know what my suggestion on implementation level is :-) I have pointed out here white papers, source codes, current implementations such as Ripple, Counterparty, Ethereum, but we never ever got into the details terms of design and options on implementation level. I am not sure why do you think the supporters of the blockchain 2 theme had the chance to discuss here anything. Actually, probably there is nothing to discuss and expect as the devs are not in the league of Peter Todd, btcdrak not to mention Buterin. We investors thought they are and capable software developers - it seems they aren't. To be honest, from a short chat with pnosker I have the impression the devs don't even understand the source code of bitcoin, litecoin, vericoin (pnosker had no idea what OP_RETURN output is) which is not surprising as vericoin is a Sunny King copy/paste fork with very little added value from the vericoin devs. Again, we investors thought the devs are capable to take the forked software to next level, unfortunately they are not. That's why Barrabas' idea does make sense, and perhaps the "good guy" theme is the only solution here.
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August 24, 2014, 12:32:08 PM
 #14144

closed.

moved to -> www.veritalk.info

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altcoinUK
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August 24, 2014, 01:18:09 PM
 #14145


moved to -> www.veritalk.info

Great! It's time the useless cheerleaders, silver coin creators, radio hosts, so people who failed to progress the coin and supported the actions that brought the coin to 9k go way. The issues needs be discussed here without you hype makers.

Bye, have a good time at veritalk  Cheesy
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August 24, 2014, 02:05:51 PM
 #14146

Quote
1. Why should I take the risk of using vericoin if I already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?

wow, you don't even know how much fee PayPal charges for their randomly freezing money system.
Everybody with 5 fingers on his hand should understand that you are just talking trash.

Well I have always used Paypal and never payed a cent for doing so... no idea what you´re talking about. Could you explain me what "randomly freezing money system" is about instead of trolling and insulting...

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

well, I don't know if you are just not the smartest out there or just don't want to understand how this world works.

Either way you pay the fee. The Merchant will just charge the fee hidden in the price you pay.
Do you really think just because you are not charged for the fee you are not going to pay it in the end?

You should really start to think beyond the doors you life in and understand what is behind all this marketing billion $ company shit.

I honestly suggest you to grow up and stop giving your opinions which are *offensive* about how you think I am because what I´ve said in a post and start accepting that you have no fucking idea what you´re talking about because you dont know me as you already pointed out

Accept as well that your opinion about whether I´m intelligent or not doesn´t contribute *at all* to the discussion, but rather makes you look like an asshole who is trying to offend and troll with the classic "ad hominem" instead using his brain and thinking on the implications of what I´m pointing out in my post.

So lets say everyone could save a worthless 2.9% paying with vericoin and lets suppose I am wrong about the Paypal fees, just because I do not want to discuss the bullshit details here, but rather focus on the important issues.

So you really think 3% savings when buying something is going to convince Joe Bloggs and aunt Emma to

1. Do some research and understand what vericoin is and the "advantages" it has to offer over other payment methods

2. Take the risk of losing 80% value in 30 days

3. Take the risk of losing the possibility of a charge back

4. Take the risk of doing something wrong and send to the wrong address or wrong phone number (veriSMS) because they are human after all.

5. Take the risk of sending ID copies to a random website (possibility of identity theft if a hack happens)

6. Take the risk of sending FIAT to a random website (possibility of losing the money like some people did in some well known
 exchanges) or meeting a perfect stranger on the street in order to get BTC because they want VRC quicker (localbitcoins)

7. Go through the hassle of sending ID copies and transfering FIAT to a random website or meeting a stranger on the street


Are you serious?


**again**


Aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are asking us

1. Why should I take the risk of using vericoin if I already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero* fees for online payments (paypal)?


*maybe thats what they think because setting an account costs zero





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August 24, 2014, 02:17:08 PM
 #14147

I found it quite reasonable to ask why any Gran, Joe or Janet in the first world would bother using an alt currency when they can use CC or PayPal or OK Pay etc.  Smiley

Thats why cryptos are a fad  Cry
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August 24, 2014, 02:18:46 PM
 #14148


As for the rest, I guess we can all let our minds wander but personally, as someone with credit cards, a PayPal account and even a PayPal Business Debit Mastercard (with 1% cash back on everything) so that I can use my PayPal acct like a checking acct or like a credit account, I wouldn't mind having a VeriCoin Visa card as I'm growing increasingly worried about the persistant devaluation of our dollar here in the States and it's future as our world's reserve currency.  I see digital currencies like Bitcoin and VeriCoin as hedges against such systemic risk and with the way that food and gas prices continue to climb at such a steady, if not ever increasing rate of pace, I don't think it will be all that long before Aunt Emma and/or Joe Bloggs figure it out and start buying cryptos, too.

And you think aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are going to stop using Paypal and CCs and switch to VRC because they have the same ideological motives as you do?

Are you f*cking serious??


And anyway the question aunt Emma  and Joe Sixpack were asking us is not

- Would we mind using Vericoin instead CCs or Paypal? (obviously they are asking themselves here not us)

but rather



1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?




* See all the risks explained in my post just before that one
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August 24, 2014, 02:28:01 PM
 #14149

closed.

moved to -> www.veritalk.info

Nooooooo.. i want to hear more about the man who lost his coat and the swallow...
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August 24, 2014, 02:30:08 PM
 #14150



1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if I already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?


The best question ever in this thread. Many of us have been asking this question here, personally I am asking it since the lame VISA card idea was announced. Of course there is no rational argument that could justify such lame idea, a centralized credit card for a decentralized currency. Additionally, the devs are too arrogant to admit that their delusional worldwide mass adoption theme failed and completely infeasible.

Don't expect any price increase with the current direction.
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August 24, 2014, 02:30:18 PM
 #14151


As for the rest, I guess we can all let our minds wander but personally, as someone with credit cards, a PayPal account and even a PayPal Business Debit Mastercard (with 1% cash back on everything) so that I can use my PayPal acct like a checking acct or like a credit account, I wouldn't mind having a VeriCoin Visa card as I'm growing increasingly worried about the persistant devaluation of our dollar here in the States and it's future as our world's reserve currency.  I see digital currencies like Bitcoin and VeriCoin as hedges against such systemic risk and with the way that food and gas prices continue to climb at such a steady, if not ever increasing rate of pace, I don't think it will be all that long before Aunt Emma and/or Joe Bloggs figure it out and start buying cryptos, too.

And you think aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are going to stop using Paypal and CCs and switch to VRC because they have the same ideological motives as you do?

Are you f*cking serious??


And anyway the question aunt Emma  and Joe Sixpack were asking us is not

- Would we mind using Vericoin instead CCs or Paypal? (obviously they are asking themselves here not us)

but rather



1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?




* See all the risks explained in my post just before that one

you can always use paypal if you dont trust the digital currency system. as for me, i avoid using paypal since their exchange rates are very low. (usd to another currency)
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August 24, 2014, 02:44:15 PM
 #14152

I found it quite reasonable to ask why any Gran, Joe or Janet in the first world would bother using an alt currency when they can use CC or PayPal or OK Pay etc.

I fully agree, virtually impossible to push trough the idea to the general public. There is another, perhaps bigger issue with the Vericoin VISA card, a conceptual problem. Eventually crypto currencies will be accepted and used, but certainly not via conventional payment schemes such as VISA. Quite the opposite, crypto currencies will succeed because this new money address the shortcomings of conventional payment schemes.
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August 24, 2014, 02:55:35 PM
 #14153


@altcoinUK: Well bro, I have a feeling, that you are already lost to the dark side of BobPlop and gang. Your point of
                  view regarding importance of blockchain2 is simply wrong. Vericoin does not need
                  blockchain2 on itself. It can use existing platforms like ripple, stellar and what else is going to get
                  realized on this field. I feel like you are just annoyed, that your point does not get the dev´s and
                  community´s attention you had hoped for.
            

As for I am annoyed that my idea doesn't get attention, yes personally I think apart from BTC the blockchain 2 coins are the future, but there are other coins which I have invested (Ethereum, Viacoin, 2 other smart-contract start-ups that are not altcoins and not public yet and waiting for the Skycoin IPO as well), so there is no annoyance from me regarding to the reception of my suggestions -  I have plenty other opportunities to be involved with blockchain 2. To be honest what is important to me that the devs start to implement anything that works, like implement a rolling doughnut hole in the wallet so users can take a flying fuck into the doughnut hole, because from publicity and mass adoption viewpoint that would be more useful feature than the current delusional worldwide mass adoption theme and its useless, lame VISA card idea.

Terms of the technicality, I appreciate your comments, but we have never discussed the implementation details of blockchain 2 here, so I am not sure how do you know what my suggestion on implementation level is :-) I have pointed out here white papers, source codes, current implementations such as Ripple, Counterparty, Ethereum, but we never ever got into the details terms of design and options on implementation level. I am not sure why do you think the supporters of the blockchain 2 theme had the chance to discuss here anything. Actually, probably there is nothing to discuss and expect as the devs are not in the league of Peter Todd, btcdrak not to mention Buterin. We investors thought they are and capable software developers - it seems they aren't. To be honest, from a short chat with pnosker I have the impression the devs don't even understand the source code of bitcoin, litecoin, vericoin (pnosker had no idea what OP_RETURN output is) which is not surprising as vericoin is a Sunny King copy/paste fork with very little added value from the vericoin devs. Again, we investors thought the devs are capable to take the forked software to next level, unfortunately they are not. That's why Barrabas' idea does make sense, and perhaps the "good guy" theme is the only solution here.

i have been researching on blockchain 2 and Viacoin as well. Seems solid with a good community and I did notice their thread a semi moderated which personally i think is a good idea. Yes allow every comments, but once it gets abusive, so long

I agree with you VRC should be looking into up upcoming tech to give this coin an edge. I recall that Doug is in favor of decentralized coins. In terms of implementation, how long do you think it would tak? You mentioned that you idea did not get any attention, I wonder what you presented and since it is clear you are technically capable as well, help or suggestions should be welcome.

I am sure the devs are capable and have other projects in the pipeline as well.
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August 24, 2014, 03:00:30 PM
 #14154


So to the question aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are asking


1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?


Your answer is


you can always use paypal if you dont trust the digital currency system. as for me, i avoid using paypal since their exchange rates are very low. (usd to another currency)

And you pretend to convince them?


Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings
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August 24, 2014, 03:33:14 PM
 #14155


So to the question aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are asking


1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?


Your answer is


you can always use paypal if you dont trust the digital currency system. as for me, i avoid using paypal since their exchange rates are very low. (usd to another currency)

And you pretend to convince them?


Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings


then don't, but there will be myself and others included who will.. short to mid term, the VISA card will help.. but that is not the long term goal… digital currency infrastructure has to be built and improved upon and make the tech more user friendly..
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August 24, 2014, 03:46:32 PM
 #14156


So to the question aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are asking


1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?


Your answer is


you can always use paypal if you dont trust the digital currency system. as for me, i avoid using paypal since their exchange rates are very low. (usd to another currency)

And you pretend to convince them?


Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings


then don't, but there will be myself and others included who will.. short to mid term, the VISA card will help.. but that is not the long term goal… digital currency infrastructure has to be built and improved upon and make the tech more user friendly..

I think #2 holds the most potential especially in 3rd world countries. Majority of users here already have access to credit cards, banks, atm etc. For someone sending money to family overseas, this would be a great option. Western union and similar companies charge a massive premium.

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August 24, 2014, 04:23:28 PM
 #14157


"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union



I think #2 holds the most potential especially in 3rd world countries. Majority of users here already have access to credit cards, banks, atm etc. For someone sending money to family overseas, this would be a great option. Western union and similar companies charge a massive premium.

For instance sending 300 USD from LA to Mexico* costs 4-5 dollars.

Is this the "Massive premium" you´re talking about?

https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/price-estimator/continue.html

Do you think is enough to convince Jose Sixpack to forget the rest of the risks involved in sending money to mexico using your method such as

1. Volatility: from the time the mexican relative gets the VRC till she is able to convert to fiat the value of VRC could easily be less *much less* or more *much more* than when Jose Sixpack exchanged his hard earned dollars to VRC. Are they going gamble?

2. Lack of liquidity in Mexico: who is going to exchange that VRC to Mexican pesos in Mexico?

3. Relative in Mexico getting robbed when she tries to convert VRC to mexican pesos

4. Human error: Wrong phone number which, pitty, has also a vrc wallet or wrong relative´s VRC address or buggy software (happened with multibit see http://www.coindesk.com/multibit-user-loss-high-need-bitcoin-wallets/)

Dont you think maybe its too early to try to push VRC to Jose Sixpack and aunt Emma and we should first start giving some stability to the price, and going first for a more reasonable target and figure out how we can make it happen?

*Not saying here Mexico is a 3rd world country but you know lots of people come to the US and send money back to Mexico so I guess this is also the mainstream use you are talking about
yoshiwatusi
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August 24, 2014, 05:33:28 PM
 #14158


I think #2 holds the most potential especially in 3rd world countries. Majority of users here already have access to credit cards, banks, atm etc. For someone sending money to family overseas, this would be a great option. Western union and similar companies charge a massive premium.



yeah.. the fee for sending overseas is $4-$5, but the receiver ends up receiving a lot less because money transmitters like paypal, xoom or banks have lower exchange rates.. they make money in the conversion. i see this traveling all over. for ex: in indonesia, you have to convert US$ first to IDR, then IDR to whatever currency in the receiving country. you lose money with each conversion. if you travel, the easiest way to convert to local currency is when you arrive at the airport and the rates are very low, on top of "commissions".

and this is not just for 3rd world countries. overstock is shipping across the globe now and paying in bitcoin makes more sense than paying in local currency..with your local credit card. think bigger picture.
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August 24, 2014, 05:49:52 PM
 #14159

Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings


then don't, but there will be myself and others included who will.. short to mid term, the VISA card will help.. but that is not the long term goal… digital currency infrastructure has to be built and improved upon and make the tech more user friendly..


For your words I deduce we totally agree that we should stop trying to push VRC to mainstream users and start focusing in the real vericoin user right now and/or the people vericoin is going to help and solve a problem of theirs, i.e. people like you and me then??


Quote

yeah.. the fee for sending overseas is $4-$5, but the receiver ends up receiving a lot less because money transmitters like paypal, xoom or banks have lower exchange rates.. they make money in the conversion. i see this traveling all over. for ex: in indonesia, you have to convert US$ first to IDR, then IDR to whatever currency in the receiving country. you lose money with each conversion. if you travel, the easiest way to convert to local currency is when you arrive at the airport and the rates are very low, on top of "commissions".

and this is not just for 3rd world countries. overstock is shipping across the globe now and paying in bitcoin makes more sense than paying in local currency..with your local credit card. think bigger picture.

Please define *a lot less* because I am not aware of the conversion rates, so for instance if I was in the US and sent to my family 300 USD and I took care of the of the 5 bucks WU comission how much are my relatives going to get in mexico?
luisb
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August 24, 2014, 06:10:25 PM
 #14160

overstock is shipping across the globe now and paying in bitcoin makes more sense than paying in local currency..with your local credit card. think bigger picture.

You think it makes any sense to buy something in overstock and having it shipped to germany when I will have to pay customs tax from 23 euros on and the extra outrageous shipping costs?

The last time I bought something from the US I had to pay 30 euros in customs tax and the item was 25 euros! not to mention having to wait 3 weeks and the shipping costs!

When was the last time you ordered something from europe or south america?

Is not overstock accepting BTC because the branding and publicity this is bringing to them?
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