[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[altcoinUK]

I found it quite reasonable to ask why any Gran, Joe or Janet in the first world would bother using an alt currency when they can use CC or PayPal or OK Pay etc.

I fully agree, virtually impossible to push trough the idea to the general public. There is another, perhaps bigger issue with the Vericoin VISA card, a conceptual problem. Eventually crypto currencies will be accepted and used, but certainly not via conventional payment schemes such as VISA. Quite the opposite, crypto currencies will succeed because this new money address the shortcomings of conventional payment schemes.

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[Shinraven]

@altcoinUK: Well bro, I have a feeling, that you are already lost to the dark side of BobPlop and gang. Your point of
                  view regarding importance of blockchain2 is simply wrong. Vericoin does not need
                  blockchain2 on itself. It can use existing platforms like ripple, stellar and what else is going to get
                  realized on this field. I feel like you are just annoyed, that your point does not get the dev´s and
                  community´s attention you had hoped for.
            

As for I am annoyed that my idea doesn't get attention, yes personally I think apart from BTC the blockchain 2 coins are the future, but there are other coins which I have invested (Ethereum, Viacoin, 2 other smart-contract start-ups that are not altcoins and not public yet and waiting for the Skycoin IPO as well), so there is no annoyance from me regarding to the reception of my suggestions -  I have plenty other opportunities to be involved with blockchain 2. To be honest what is important to me that the devs start to implement anything that works, like implement a rolling doughnut hole in the wallet so users can take a flying fuck into the doughnut hole, because from publicity and mass adoption viewpoint that would be more useful feature than the current delusional worldwide mass adoption theme and its useless, lame VISA card idea.

Terms of the technicality, I appreciate your comments, but we have never discussed the implementation details of blockchain 2 here, so I am not sure how do you know what my suggestion on implementation level is :-) I have pointed out here white papers, source codes, current implementations such as Ripple, Counterparty, Ethereum, but we never ever got into the details terms of design and options on implementation level. I am not sure why do you think the supporters of the blockchain 2 theme had the chance to discuss here anything. Actually, probably there is nothing to discuss and expect as the devs are not in the league of Peter Todd, btcdrak not to mention Buterin. We investors thought they are and capable software developers - it seems they aren't. To be honest, from a short chat with pnosker I have the impression the devs don't even understand the source code of bitcoin, litecoin, vericoin (pnosker had no idea what OP_RETURN output is) which is not surprising as vericoin is a Sunny King copy/paste fork with very little added value from the vericoin devs. Again, we investors thought the devs are capable to take the forked software to next level, unfortunately they are not. That's why Barrabas' idea does make sense, and perhaps the "good guy" theme is the only solution here.

i have been researching on blockchain 2 and Viacoin as well. Seems solid with a good community and I did notice their thread a semi moderated which personally i think is a good idea. Yes allow every comments, but once it gets abusive, so long

I agree with you VRC should be looking into up upcoming tech to give this coin an edge. I recall that Doug is in favor of decentralized coins. In terms of implementation, how long do you think it would tak? You mentioned that you idea did not get any attention, I wonder what you presented and since it is clear you are technically capable as well, help or suggestions should be welcome.

I am sure the devs are capable and have other projects in the pipeline as well.

[luisb]

So to the question aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are asking


1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?


Your answer is

you can always use paypal if you dont trust the digital currency system. as for me, i avoid using paypal since their exchange rates are very low. (usd to another currency)

And you pretend to convince them?

Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings

[yoshiwatusi]

So to the question aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are asking


1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?


Your answer is

you can always use paypal if you dont trust the digital currency system. as for me, i avoid using paypal since their exchange rates are very low. (usd to another currency)

And you pretend to convince them?

Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings

then don't, but there will be myself and others included who will.. short to mid term, the VISA card will help.. but that is not the long term goal… digital currency infrastructure has to be built and improved upon and make the tech more user friendly..

[Shinraven]

So to the question aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack are asking


1. Why should we take the risk of using vericoin* if we already have a credit card and a paypal account, which offers me security features like charge backs and advantages like credit (CCs) or zero fees for online payments (paypal)?


Your answer is

you can always use paypal if you dont trust the digital currency system. as for me, i avoid using paypal since their exchange rates are very low. (usd to another currency)

And you pretend to convince them?

Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings

then don't, but there will be myself and others included who will.. short to mid term, the VISA card will help.. but that is not the long term goal… digital currency infrastructure has to be built and improved upon and make the tech more user friendly..

I think #2 holds the most potential especially in 3rd world countries. Majority of users here already have access to credit cards, banks, atm etc. For someone sending money to family overseas, this would be a great option. Western union and similar companies charge a massive premium.

[luisb]

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

I think #2 holds the most potential especially in 3rd world countries. Majority of users here already have access to credit cards, banks, atm etc. For someone sending money to family overseas, this would be a great option. Western union and similar companies charge a massive premium.

For instance sending 300 USD from LA to Mexico* costs 4-5 dollars.

Is this the "Massive premium" you´re talking about?

https://www.westernunion.com/us/en/price-estimator/continue.html

Do you think is enough to convince Jose Sixpack to forget the rest of the risks involved in sending money to mexico using your method such as

1. Volatility: from the time the mexican relative gets the VRC till she is able to convert to fiat the value of VRC could easily be less *much less* or more *much more* than when Jose Sixpack exchanged his hard earned dollars to VRC. Are they going gamble?

2. Lack of liquidity in Mexico: who is going to exchange that VRC to Mexican pesos in Mexico?

3. Relative in Mexico getting robbed when she tries to convert VRC to mexican pesos

4. Human error: Wrong phone number which, pitty, has also a vrc wallet or wrong relative´s VRC address or buggy software (happened with multibit see http://www.coindesk.com/multibit-user-loss-high-need-bitcoin-wallets/)

Dont you think maybe its too early to try to push VRC to Jose Sixpack and aunt Emma and we should first start giving some stability to the price, and going first for a more reasonable target and figure out how we can make it happen?

*Not saying here Mexico is a 3rd world country but you know lots of people come to the US and send money back to Mexico so I guess this is also the mainstream use you are talking about

[yoshiwatusi]

I think #2 holds the most potential especially in 3rd world countries. Majority of users here already have access to credit cards, banks, atm etc. For someone sending money to family overseas, this would be a great option. Western union and similar companies charge a massive premium.

yeah.. the fee for sending overseas is $4-$5, but the receiver ends up receiving a lot less because money transmitters like paypal, xoom or banks have lower exchange rates.. they make money in the conversion. i see this traveling all over. for ex: in indonesia, you have to convert US$ first to IDR, then IDR to whatever currency in the receiving country. you lose money with each conversion. if you travel, the easiest way to convert to local currency is when you arrive at the airport and the rates are very low, on top of "commissions".

and this is not just for 3rd world countries. overstock is shipping across the globe now and paying in bitcoin makes more sense than paying in local currency..with your local credit card. think bigger picture.

[luisb]

Apart from that, knowing that you use paypal to exchange usd to another currency, we could say that thats not exactly what mainstream use means, you know.

"Mainstream use" as the devs and everyone else understand means

1. Vericoin will be used for online purchases as much or little less than Paypal, CCs and BTC

2. Vericoin will be used for sending money worldwide more than BTC and western union

If this is the "mainstream use" we are talking about we should start asking ourselves if vericoin has to offer at least the same advantages as they do...

Because you know don´t expect aunt Emma and Joe Sixpack switching to VRC if there are no obvious advantages apart from being easier to use or get than BTC and a theorical 3% savings

then don't, but there will be myself and others included who will.. short to mid term, the VISA card will help.. but that is not the long term goal… digital currency infrastructure has to be built and improved upon and make the tech more user friendly..

For your words I deduce we totally agree that we should stop trying to push VRC to mainstream users and start focusing in the real vericoin user right now and/or the people vericoin is going to help and solve a problem of theirs, i.e. people like you and me then??

yeah.. the fee for sending overseas is $4-$5, but the receiver ends up receiving a lot less because money transmitters like paypal, xoom or banks have lower exchange rates.. they make money in the conversion. i see this traveling all over. for ex: in indonesia, you have to convert US$ first to IDR, then IDR to whatever currency in the receiving country. you lose money with each conversion. if you travel, the easiest way to convert to local currency is when you arrive at the airport and the rates are very low, on top of "commissions".

and this is not just for 3rd world countries. overstock is shipping across the globe now and paying in bitcoin makes more sense than paying in local currency..with your local credit card. think bigger picture.

Please define *a lot less* because I am not aware of the conversion rates, so for instance if I was in the US and sent to my family 300 USD and I took care of the of the 5 bucks WU comission how much are my relatives going to get in mexico?

[luisb]

overstock is shipping across the globe now and paying in bitcoin makes more sense than paying in local currency..with your local credit card. think bigger picture.

You think it makes any sense to buy something in overstock and having it shipped to germany when I will have to pay customs tax from 23 euros on and the extra outrageous shipping costs?

The last time I bought something from the US I had to pay 30 euros in customs tax and the item was 25 euros! not to mention having to wait 3 weeks and the shipping costs!

When was the last time you ordered something from europe or south america?

Is not overstock accepting BTC because the branding and publicity this is bringing to them?

[onsightit]

In 3.5 hours, tune in: http://vericoinnews.info/latest-news/the-anatomy-of-an-altcoin-with-doug-pike/

Edit: Direct link to Meetup: http://www.meetup.com/SF-Bitcoin-Devs/events/202312412/

...which will have a link to the Hangout soon.

[libertynow]

I found it quite reasonable to ask why any Gran, Joe or Janet in the first world would bother using an alt currency when they can use CC or PayPal or OK Pay etc.  

Thats why cryptos are a fad  

Once again, to you and all the others who make comments like this...if you feel this way, then WHY ARE YOU HERE?  Do you have so much free time and are such a loser that you use your free time to waste everybody elses?  I don't understand.  Are you crazy?  Is this what crazy people do?  Can someone sane please explain this to me?

Those of us who are here think Vericoin is a fantastic alternative to FIAT, BTC and other currencies. I'm not going to repost the lists because its been posted many times already.  If you disagree, go away.  I don't mind constructive comments, but this is neither positive or negative constructive comments.  It's just emptiness.  Post your empty brain dump somewhere else.

[barabbas]

I found it quite reasonable to ask why any Gran, Joe or Janet in the first world would bother using an alt currency when they can use CC or PayPal or OK Pay etc.  

Thats why cryptos are a fad  

Once again, to you and all the others who make comments like this...if you feel this way, then WHY ARE YOU HERE?  Do you have so much free time and are such a loser that you use your free time to waste everybody elses?  I don't understand.  Are you crazy?  Is this what crazy people do?  Can someone sane please explain this to me?

Those of us who are here think Vericoin is a fantastic alternative to FIAT, BTC and other currencies. I'm not going to repost the lists because its been posted many times already.  If you disagree, go away.  I don't mind constructive comments, but this is neither positive or negative constructive comments.  It's just emptiness.  Post your empty brain dump somewhere else.

Hold on bucko! You just wasted quite a bit of time posting ... absolutely nothing. You are more than probably in the wrong forum. Should i direct you to veritalk instead? The kind of absurd meaninless nonsense that you post and like to read should be over there..

And shinraven insist on people being civil and respectful... yeah, right. Anytime now.

[souljah1h]

<BitCoinDragon> The hang out is live now......No video though but Doug is speaking.   https://plus.google.com/events/cv94a598qi9auoh8756vlutna38

[ELMER_FUD]

<BitCoinDragon> The hang out is live now......No video though but Doug is speaking.   https://plus.google.com/events/cv94a598qi9auoh8756vlutna38

Thank you!

[souljah1h]

^ No problem!

Also found this. http://www.blkfeed.com/topic/170/coinsis-business-proposal-and-the-15k-previously-50k-ultimatum

Did Vericoin pay 15k?

[barabbas]

<BitCoinDragon> The hang out is live now......No video though but Doug is speaking.   https://plus.google.com/events/cv94a598qi9auoh8756vlutna38

Doug appears to do that. Constantly. Even though he doesn'n have absolutely anything to say... Remarkable.

[souljah1h]

<BitCoinDragon> The hang out is live now......No video though but Doug is speaking.   https://plus.google.com/events/cv94a598qi9auoh8756vlutna38

Doug appears to do that. Constantly. Even though he doesn'n have absolutely anything to say... Remarkable.

Cut the man some slack

[Wreathy]

That was a veri good hangout out session.

Doug Ty. I learned a lot from it regarding how coins function as to how I thought I previously knew.  

A well Deserved Applause at the end to.

[onsightit]

That was a veri good hangout out session.

Doug Ty. I learned a lot from it regarding how coins function as to how I thought I previously knew.  

A well Deserved Applause at the end to.

Agreed. If Doug was recounting all that info from the top of his head while driving his car in NJ traffic, I'm very impressed.

[aragoon]

What has become obvious to me is that getting into alts is now easy. Getting back into FIAT is a major bottleneck. The problem is that alts are about as useful as a rubber crutch in a swamp to most people in the real world who have never heard of them and, in the first world, the Joes and Janes who see little need for them. Good question to ask..Why bother with btc or any alt ?
I got into btc because I wanted a way to get past idiot IP address restrictions when trying to sign up for a VPN service from outside my home country. I  travel  and want to be able to access my funds without the expense, restrictions, inconvenience and robotic policies and procedures of banks, PayPal and money changers. I also deeply resent the idea that a bank can close an account because btc transactions are identified. That kind of policy encourages the search for alternatives.
I've posted before to ask how the family with no access to smartphones, Wi-Fi, secure Internet or an online exchange can spend the pretty little btc or alt coins sent to them by a hardworking relative in first world country. Get them a btc/VRC debit card. ATMs are ubiquitous. Problem solved. No need to go to a kiosk or scratch a card.
I believe that FIAT is not going away anytime soon. There's room for multiple systems to exist.  I believe we have to work alongside existing systems, integrate with them and improve them. A debit card is an obvious first step. Competition is already stepping up.
It's early days. Someone is going to come up with a card that is really competitive and attractive and it will take off. Maybe Chinese RMB base on Union Card and no USD?
Not the complete solution but a very significant step towards wider adoption. I'm an example of someone who will use crypto by choice even though I have easy access to credit cards, PayPal, OK Pay, bank accounts etc . No geeks, no nerds, no purist fundamentalists. Just  "Hey, I can spend this stuff anywhere,anytime."
I have no real idea if there could ever be a fully decentralised, autonomous FIAT / Crypto currency exchange but, if there is, the debit card could be loaded with almost any currency and then.....well, just imagine. Can we say there will never be a wallet in which we can hold multiple Alts and FIAT and exchange between them? What about when nations introduce their own digital currencies? What about if existing ATM networks begin to accept alts direct for exchange?
Next time someone like Gran asks "but what can I do with it?", if you can't say "spend it" you still have some work to do.
 I think the devs are chasing a good idea here and I wish them success with it. I agree the trustworthiness of Coinsis is yet to be confirmed. It's understandable that people are cynical. We have seen scam coins, scam exchanges and scam scams and don't want to experience a scam card. So, reasonably enough people want reassurances about any service being offered.
Sorry I couldn't find a shorter way to say all that. Will shut up now.