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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2022644 times)
tvbcof
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June 27, 2015, 01:43:50 AM
 #27541


 <sniffle, sniffle, poor me Sad >


Look how you constantly try to frame yourself as the victim.   Roll Eyes

OMG POOR YOU THE 1MB "GANG" OF "THUGS" IS SO MEAN AND TERRIBLE!!!11!!1

5 downvotes and you crank up the victimology machine, imagining yourself as the target of some nefarious conspiracy.

Quick, check under your bed just in case a Learned Elder of Blocksteam might be hiding there!   Grin

Sidechains are up and running.  CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY has been merged.

GavinCoin's hopes of 20MB blocks are a thing of the past.  Its only success was shifting the Overton Window such that 8MB doesn't seem as crazy.  Every core dev and his cat are submitting contradictory/incompatible/confusing BIPs.

I told you GavinCoin would be r3kt like Stannis on the Blackwater, and that exactly what has happened.

Try not to be such a poor sport about it, old chap.  The already unseemly self-pity is becoming nauseating.   Wink


Be happy fap.doc.  We've kept Bitcoin from being destroyed by the exponential growth attack from whoever is on the other end of the mit.gov pass-through and thus made you a a bundle of money down the road...if you actually even have any BTC left.

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tvbcof
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June 27, 2015, 01:55:24 AM
 #27542


Nothing has been stated which refutes my logic. If the old version has the functionality that luigi1111, Odalv, and tcbcof have reaffirmed is their assumption, then the dire outcome I explained is the potential result. Perhaps there are other possible mitigations to such an attack.

Somebody needs to bring this to the attention of the Core devs. Appears on the surface of it, they may have a serious lapse in logic (but not having seen their rebuttal, I might be missing something).
...

When you get done ruminating on this for a while, play it out for us.  I'm not saying you don't have anything there, but nothing very practicable jumps out at me...unlike, say, IBLT which stuck in my craw right away.


TPTB_need_war
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June 27, 2015, 02:11:38 AM
 #27543

For those hoping for Blockstream's Confidential Transactions to scale or end up in Bitcoin core, I offer this.

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June 27, 2015, 02:15:33 AM
 #27544

Interesting how this thread has evolved: Three guys shitting all over it and insulting cypherdoc (OP) relentlessly.

- One of them (iCEBREAKER) is a "monero supremacist" that for some reason is interested in Bitcoin.

- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.

- And the third one (TPTB_need_war) believes in astrology, says he has solved all the "problems of Bitcoin" (but has nothing to show) and has already promised to leave this thread ten times.

Judge for yourself.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
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June 27, 2015, 02:19:00 AM
 #27545

- And the third one (TPTB_need_war) believes in astrology

And we have a guy who lies.

That is an inaccurate summary of what I wrote about the zodiac signs. Let's differentiate between a science that is tested and proven for all on earth, versus a personal ongoing test to refute one's own experience. If you can't fathom the distinction, then don't play.

- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.

Where? Seems like a hard money dude from what I've read.

iCEBREAKER
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June 27, 2015, 02:23:21 AM
 #27546

You see iCEBLow, there is nothing to fear:

https://www.coinprices.io/articles/the-hard-fork-no-need-to-worry-bitcoin-upgrades-harness-free-market-consensus

Now a prolonged 1MB spam attack...  

That poorly researched puff piece fails to mention MPEX's plan and stated intention to short GavinCoin until it cries blood and dies.





TL;DR 'get r3kt Gavin, nobody with a brain wants to ride on your stupid bloatscale fail train'


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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June 27, 2015, 02:25:50 AM
 #27547

Interesting how this thread has evolved: Three guys shitting all over it and insulting cypherdoc (OP) relentlessly.

- One of them (iCEBREAKER) is a "monero supremacist" that for some reason is interested in Bitcoin.

- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.

- And the third one (TPTB_need_war) believes in astrology, says he has solved all the "problems of Bitcoin" (but has nothing to show) and has already promised to leave this thread ten times.

Judge for yourself.

Quote
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. -Eleanor Roosevelt


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
tvbcof
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June 27, 2015, 02:58:17 AM
 #27548

Interesting how this thread has evolved: Three guys shitting all over it and insulting cypherdoc (OP) relentlessly.
...
- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.
...

Was.  What's left over is a reasonable understanding of how these folks work and a life-long intolerance for idiotic aspects of Libertardian dogma which I've studied extensively in my previous life.

BTW, cypherdoc begs for it.  Classic masochistic tendencies.


Cconvert2G36
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June 27, 2015, 03:00:16 AM
 #27549

How many PH are run by MPEX and the pr gal again? I'm missing the cries bloods and dies connection.
luigi1111
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June 27, 2015, 03:01:20 AM
 #27550

Edit: meaning, I think, that "miners" (same as other full nodes) would accept/ignore codes they don't know IF they are included in a block, but would not accept them for inclusion into their own blocks.

+1 .. this is soft fork

That was my basic understanding, but I'm glad to get confirmation from ~odalv on this.

Nothing has been stated which refutes my logic. If the old version has the functionality that luigi1111, Odalv, and tcbcof have reaffirmed is their assumption, then the dire outcome I explained is the potential result. Perhaps there are other possible mitigations to such an attack.

Somebody needs to bring this to the attention of the Core devs. Appears on the surface of it, they may have a serious lapse in logic (but not having seen their rebuttal, I might be missing something).

I did not think it refuted your logic, beyond that you need at least one miner in your pocket (or your own miner, whatever) to get started.

On the surface it seems like you may have something, but I've not thought about it in depth (and indeed, am no expert).
BlindMayorBitcorn
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June 27, 2015, 03:02:56 AM
 #27551

How many PH are run by MPEX and the pr gal again? I'm missing the cries bloods and dies connection.

I'm assuming he means Mircea Popescu personally?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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June 27, 2015, 05:26:03 AM
 #27552

BTW, cypherdoc begs for it.  Classic masochistic tendencies.



there's some truth to this.  but there are several good reasons for it:

1.  i think i'm right
2.  i have a clear unconflicted conscience as my sole disclaimer is i own some coins
3.  having a lucrative career in a non tech arena, i have no desire or need to find employment or any association whatsoever with any cryptocurrency company.  thus my sole participation in Bitcoin is on these forums and is purely focused on what i think is right or necessary for the good of Bitcoin.  i don't even go to conferences except for the San Jose one from 2 yrs ago.
4.  having grown up in a relatively disadvantaged manner with other like kids, i have learned to be thrifty, not take anything for granted, and fight for what i want and believe in, not only academically but physically.  i have a strong desire to advocate and protect the disadvantaged.  
5.  through my own intellect and work ethos, i managed to get into a very well respected, well compensated profession in which i am able to do real good to and for ppl.  ppl trust me to operate on their eyes for God's sake.  i have saved literally thousands of ppl from blindness.  both here and on volunteer trips in foreign countries.  God has blessed me in more ways than i can count.  ppl come up to me to this day who i've not seen for over 22 yrs and say thank you for saving my vision and say things like i'll never forget you.  thus, i have seen the good in ppl and it brings out the same in me.  i pity ppl like iCEBlow, tvbcof, MOA, and TPTB b/c if i had to guess, they've been abused by their fathers in childhood.  when i listen to them i hear fear, anger, disdain, mistrust.  they only see the negatives in ppl and their surroundings.  what a miserable bunch of cuss they are.
6.  these types of blessings give me clear conviction to advocate for what i think is best for Bitcoin, and not for my pocketbook.  yes, Bitcoin could go to zero and it wouldn't effect me in a detrimental way.  at_all.

all these things make me vomit when i see ppl like iCEBLOW, tvbcof, MOA, & TPTB try to distort the truth and act like thugs.i think they're bloviating bullies the kind i used to fight on the playgrounds.  i don't mind doing it as i have nothing to lose.  they pick on Gavin in the same way who is too mature to engage these pricks.  so yeah, i'll step up and do it for him.  i don't mind.  i have nothing to lose.  

i believe Bitcoin needs to dissect the cancer that is Blockstream from the core dev team.  the financial conflicts are too great. Mike & Gavin can't possibly be any less financially conflicted in their recommendations. their refusal to even give a counter proposal to Gavin, despite them hedging that they all want a block size increase, is disingenuous at best.  saying that while doing nothing is equivalent to flat out opposition afaic.  Bitcoin is a public good.  if they were mature, honest individuals, all 9 of those core devs involved in BS would step down out of self respect and the desire to avoid controversy.  but no, that is not the level of integrity we have in core dev.  that's sad to me.  so it won't stop me from talking about it no matter how badly they attack me.

the attacks on me and this thread are actually testimony to just how successfully and highly thought of i am in their eyes.  i see right through their bullshit and take all the criticism as the ultimate tribute as to what i have achieved here.  their only option is to resort to character assassination.  they need to fill this thread up as much as possible with disinformation to distract from my message and smear my reputation in their desperation to co-opt Bitcoin.  i think it's laughable b/c what i've learned over the years is that there are lots of good ppl here on the forum whom i respect and admire.  they will see right through the bullshit.  b/c fundamentally i believe most ppl are good and want to do the right thing, i believe they will see what these guys are up to.  these thugs fundamentally disrespect all of you; they don't think you have the intelligence to discern.  it is also why Bitcoin is destined to succeed b/c their are more good ppl in the world who will hold the evil ones to task in the up and coming transparent open source and technological age.  

i also welcome all the posts these guys make as it drives up this thread to the top of the forum where every can see the poll results and also listen to my message.  they are playing right into my hands.
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June 27, 2015, 05:29:09 AM
 #27553

Great article. Emphasizes how all the geeks on this thread don't understand fundamentally what bitcoin is about. I don't necessarily agree with his characterization as commodity money nor with the 4 somewhat confusing classifications of money but overall he gets it:

http://wallstreettechnologist.com/2015/05/30/why-you-should-be-a-bitcoin-maximalist/

Yet another long screed where some imbecile bloviates about 'money'.  Yawn.  Skimming a few sentances scattered througout the disertation is enough to see that it is a waste of time (or worse.)

Bitcoin is Bitcoin.  Whether one has some innate insecurity which makes them need to believe it is 'money' or is not 'money' or yada yada yada doesn't change Bitcoin in the slightest.  For years I've argued that whatever it is, it is fine to NOT consider it 'money' just on practical legal grounds, but at the end of the day, who gives a fuck?

I didn't even get to the end where (presumably from your (often completely wrong) representation of the story) the guy claims that Bitcoin should be the one ring that rules them all or whatever.  Not worth the bother.  From the few sentences I did read the guy's conclusions are almost certainly useless bullshit no matter what they are.



The article was near perfect. But I don't think it represents the knowledge of wall street, despite the site name. But slowly, they are coming.

To spice up the potential interest to read; from the article:

"the race is over and Bitcoin has won.  Time to fight the real war, which is the separation of money from the state."


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June 27, 2015, 05:38:45 AM
 #27554

BTW, cypherdoc begs for it.  Classic masochistic tendencies.


there's some truth to this.  but there are several good reasons for it:

1.  i think i'm right
2.  i have a clear unconflicted conscience as my sole disclaimer is i own some coins
3.  having a lucrative career in a non tech arena, i have no desire or need to find employment or any association whatsoever with any cryptocurrency company.  thus my sole participation in Bitcoin is on these forums and is purely focused on what i think is right or necessary for the good of Bitcoin.  i don't even go to conferences except for the San Jose one from 2 yrs ago.
4.  having grown up in a relatively disadvantaged manner with other like kids, i have learned to be thrifty, not take anything for granted, and fight for what i want and believe in, not only academically but physically.  i have a strong desire to advocate and protect the disadvantaged.  
5.  through my own intellect and work ethos, i managed to get into a very well respected, well compensated profession in which i am able to do real good to and for ppl.  ppl trust me to operate on their eyes for God's sake.  i have saved literally thousands of ppl from blindness.  both here and on volunteer trips in foreign countries.  God has blessed me in more ways than i can count.  ppl come up to me to this day who i've not seen for over 22 yrs and say thank you for saving my vision and say things like i'll never forget you.  thus, i have seen the good in ppl and it brings out the same in me.  i pity ppl like iCEBlow, tvbcof, MOA, and TPTB b/c if i had to guess, they've been abused by their fathers in childhood.  when i listen to them i hear fear, anger, disdain, mistrust.  they only see the negatives in ppl and their surroundings.  what a miserable bunch of cuss they are.
6.  these types of blessings give me clear conviction to advocate for what i think is best for Bitcoin, and not for my pocketbook.  yes, Bitcoin could go to zero and it wouldn't effect me in a detrimental way.  at_all.
...

2 second truce to wonder in awe at the parallels between us and how we can see things so utterly differently.  OK, that passed.


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June 27, 2015, 05:40:06 AM
 #27555

Interesting how this thread has evolved: Three guys shitting all over it and insulting cypherdoc (OP) relentlessly.
...
- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.
...

Was.  What's left over is a reasonable understanding of how these folks work and a life-long intolerance for idiotic aspects of Libertardian dogma which I've studied extensively in my previous life.

BTW, cypherdoc begs for it.  Classic masochistic tendencies.



Libertarians are just stupid. They don't realize that the market can provide security.

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June 27, 2015, 06:43:49 AM
 #27556

...
- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.

Where? Seems like a hard money dude from what I've read.

Jefferson was philosophically opposed to slavery (supposedly) but he was a slave owner.  I recognize both the limitations of 'hard money' and the engineering benefits of Keynesian monetary management schemes and debt-based money.  I've been a long time 'gold bug' who believes that in an idealized social order 'hard money' would be problematic.  Bitcoin and gold are about the same thing to me in terms of monetary science, and I feel it most prudent to protect my own ass at the moment.  'keeping some powder dry' so to speak.

Although in earlier life I'd legitimately (and probably incorrectly) considered myself to be a 'socialist', I'd mostly abandoned that label by the time of my first post here.  I re-enabled the tag from time to time here but mostly for trolling purposes.

The main reason I have most recently rejected 'socialism' with significantly more vigor is that I see more clearly that we are way more advanced along this path than I had realized.  We overshot any possible usefulness and are on the steep downward path toward totalitarianism.  The 'socialists' seem to be thinking that they could leverage the utility of crony capitalism to perhaps grease the rails.  Some of them maybe believed they could shake it.  In fact they were some combination of being themselves used as tools and just becoming evil (or more evil in a lot of cases.)  They are stuck in a box canyon.  I bailed and will take my chances with the Libertarians since at the end of the day I always did have more in common with them in some of the most important ways anyhow.


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June 27, 2015, 07:53:34 AM
 #27557

...
- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.

Where? Seems like a hard money dude from what I've read.

Jefferson was philosophically opposed to slavery (supposedly) but he was a slave owner. 

The inexorable dilemma.
To win the game, or to change the game?

Sometimes it takes a bit of one to do the other, until the other manifests its opportunity.
Shades of grey.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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June 27, 2015, 01:39:57 PM
 #27558

...
- Then we have tvbcof, who is an avowed socialist.

Where? Seems like a hard money dude from what I've read.

Jefferson was philosophically opposed to slavery (supposedly) but he was a slave owner.  I recognize both the limitations of 'hard money' and the engineering benefits of Keynesian monetary management schemes and debt-based money.  I've been a long time 'gold bug' who believes that in an idealized social order 'hard money' would be problematic.  Bitcoin and gold are about the same thing to me in terms of monetary science, and I feel it most prudent to protect my own ass at the moment.  'keeping some powder dry' so to speak.

Although in earlier life I'd legitimately (and probably incorrectly) considered myself to be a 'socialist', I'd mostly abandoned that label by the time of my first post here.  I re-enabled the tag from time to time here but mostly for trolling purposes.

The main reason I have most recently rejected 'socialism' with significantly more vigor is that I see more clearly that we are way more advanced along this path than I had realized.  We overshot any possible usefulness and are on the steep downward path toward totalitarianism.  The 'socialists' seem to be thinking that they could leverage the utility of crony capitalism to perhaps grease the rails.  Some of them maybe believed they could shake it.  In fact they were some combination of being themselves used as tools and just becoming evil (or more evil in a lot of cases.)  They are stuck in a box canyon.  I bailed and will take my chances with the Libertarians since at the end of the day I always did have more in common with them in some of the most important ways anyhow.


Interesting. You are right about the path we are on.

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June 27, 2015, 01:53:54 PM
 #27559

About Poll,
I think that bitcoin needs a variable size, readjust depending on the size.
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June 27, 2015, 02:04:47 PM
 #27560

About Poll,
I think that bitcoin needs a variable size, readjust depending on the size.

yes, i would disregard any fixed size bumps, as throwing random numbers to kick the can further down the road seems quite juvenile.

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