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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806365 times)
NewLiberty
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June 18, 2015, 11:11:52 AM
 #26801

If you brake your leg or your neck, you should consult a quack instead of a university trained doctor of the establishment.

When the funding for tenured professors comes from the establishment which does not want truth to be explored on a particular issue (e.g. anthropogenic global warming aka man-made climate change lie that was foisted on the establishment and which 9,000 PhDs were signatories against but even that never made the news), then science within the establishment does not exist on that issue.

When some of those established engineers and professors decide instead to fund their collaboration, this is then debunked as non-science because it didn't take place within the monolith of the establishment's controlled funding model.

Logical indeed.



I know the anthropocentric logic of the quacks and truthers: taking CO2 out of the ground and put it into the athmosphere and the ocean doesn't change the climate of the athmosphere and the ocean.

Logical indeed.

Wow you just proved you are an idiot (or presumptuous which is the same thing). Do some research on the science. I did. And so did 9,000 PhDs.

Lazy people love to boast and we who are not lazy realize you are idiots. That is why you get the NWO enslavement that you deserve.

It's you who is the idiot. Not an idiot for example is Nassim Taleb:

Climate Change.

I am hyper-conservative ecologically (meaning super-Green). My position on the climate is to avoid releasing pollutants in the atmosphere, on the basis of ignorance, regardless of current expert opinion
.............

We have polluted for years, causing much damage to the environment, while the scientists currently making these complicated forecasting models were not sticking their necks out and trying to stop us from building these risks (they resemble those "risk experts" in the economic domain who fight the previous war) --these are the ones now trying to impose the solutions on us. But the skepticism about models that I propose does not lead to the same conclusions as the ones endorsed by anti-environmentalists, pro-market fundamentalists, quite the contrary: we need to be hyper-conservationists ecologically, super-Green, since we do not know what we are harming with now. That's the sound policy under ignorance and epistemic opacity. To those who say "we have no proof that we are harming nature", a sound response is "we have no proof that we are not harming nature either" --the burden of the proof is not on the ecological conservationist, but on someone disrupting an old system.


http://www.blackswanreport.com/blog/2010/01/opacity-3/

The assumption of either position for or against as absolute, is anti-science.
Science is the process of questioning the 'experts' and testing.  
It is when we stop questioning, that science ends.

In this case you are both more right than wrong.  
Climate change science is useful for statists to increase authority and that questioning this scientifically is discouraged (TPTB's point).  
Avoiding pollution and waste is the key to sustainability, and so it is prudent to avoid it (Zarathustra's point).
Where you are both wrong is in recognising that these points are not necessarily in conflict.

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Zarathustra
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June 18, 2015, 11:20:18 AM
 #26802


Wow you just proved you are an idiot (or presumptuous which is the same thing). Do some research on the science. I did. And so did 9,000 PhDs.

Lazy people love to boast and we who are not lazy realize you are idiots. That is why you get the NWO enslavement that you deserve.

Wow! 9000 quacks who find themselves in opposition to physical logic, against 9 Million who don't ...

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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June 18, 2015, 11:32:48 AM
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The assumption of either position for or against as absolute, is anti-science.
Science is the process of questioning the 'experts' and testing.  
It is when we stop questioning, that science ends.

In this case you are both more right than wrong.  


An absolute position against unknown anthropogenic experiments with the ocean and the atmosphere is not anti-science. The position, that changing the composition of the ocean and the atmosphere doesn't change the climate in the ocean and the atmosphere is not only anti-science; it is a super-hyper-idiotic position.

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
NewLiberty
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June 18, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
 #26804


The assumption of either position for or against as absolute, is anti-science.
Science is the process of questioning the 'experts' and testing.  
It is when we stop questioning, that science ends.

In this case you are both more right than wrong.  


An absolute position against unknown anthropogenic experiments with the ocean and the atmosphere is not anti-science. The position, that changing the composition of the ocean and the atmosphere doesn't change the climate in the ocean and the atmosphere is not only anti-science; it is a super-hyper-idiotic position.

When you stop questioning, you stop learning.
The people that think they know everything can learn nothing.  They assume they know the answers before the experiment.

You seek to stop waste, good for you.  You also like to argue.   Maybe that is also a waste, of your time, especially when you argue with people that aren't even arguing with you.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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TPTB_need_war
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June 18, 2015, 12:30:02 PM
 #26805

I want scaling, but there is a physical limit somewhere.

Physical cash has limits to lowest practical transaction size, and number of transactions practical per person per day, but not on the total number.

Therefore we need payment services. I see this as no problem at all. They are centralized and therefore a target for the state, but they can operate on bitcoin the money unit, they can be smaller, they can be located in one country and used in another. The cards can have private keys, trezor like, no keypress for small transactions. The cards need not be tied to personal identity. The service companies can standardize terminals and protocols. They can contract that cards can be used on other companies' terminals. Vendors can have a long list of accepted cards. If you come to an area where your card does not work, aquire a new card and fill it up. Cards can be personal and owned by the user, the user makes a deal with with a payment system which then becomes a confidence supplier.

We already have a bunch of such companies, it is only to sit back and wait for the development towards perfection. If I am not satisfied with the progress I can engage in the business myself.

The possibilities are endless. But we need a solid base with the highest transaction rate that is physically possible.

Competing payment services not transacting on the block chain means no fungibility of units between payment services, which means users can't pay to anyone anytime.

The internet and rise of global trade in knowledge means you can no longer draw national corrals around trade.

Also I had explained in 2013, this kills network effects because each user is no longer a potential network connection to another.

This is why I know only my design can scale the network effects.

I do not view Bitcoin as much of a threat. The only thing that compete with me is a pegged BTC side chain.

TPTB_need_war
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June 18, 2015, 12:34:16 PM
 #26806

If you brake your leg or your neck, you should consult a quack instead of a university trained doctor of the establishment.

When the funding for tenured professors comes from the establishment which does not want truth to be explored on a particular issue (e.g. anthropogenic global warming aka man-made climate change lie that was foisted on the establishment and which 9,000 PhDs were signatories against but even that never made the news), then science within the establishment does not exist on that issue.

When some of those established engineers and professors decide instead to fund their collaboration, this is then debunked as non-science because it didn't take place within the monolith of the establishment's controlled funding model.

Logical indeed.



I know the anthropocentric logic of the quacks and truthers: taking CO2 out of the ground and put it into the athmosphere and the ocean doesn't change the climate of the athmosphere and the ocean.

Logical indeed.

Wow you just proved you are an idiot (or presumptuous which is the same thing). Do some research on the science. I did. And so did 9,000 PhDs.

Lazy people love to boast and we who are not lazy realize you are idiots. That is why you get the NWO enslavement that you deserve.

It's you who is the idiot. Not an idiot for example is Nassim Taleb:

Climate Change.

I am hyper-conservative ecologically (meaning super-Green). My position on the climate is to avoid releasing pollutants in the atmosphere, on the basis of ignorance, regardless of current expert opinion
.............

We have polluted for years, causing much damage to the environment, while the scientists currently making these complicated forecasting models were not sticking their necks out and trying to stop us from building these risks (they resemble those "risk experts" in the economic domain who fight the previous war) --these are the ones now trying to impose the solutions on us. But the skepticism about models that I propose does not lead to the same conclusions as the ones endorsed by anti-environmentalists, pro-market fundamentalists, quite the contrary: we need to be hyper-conservationists ecologically, super-Green, since we do not know what we are harming with now. That's the sound policy under ignorance and epistemic opacity. To those who say "we have no proof that we are harming nature", a sound response is "we have no proof that we are not harming nature either" --the burden of the proof is not on the ecological conservationist, but on someone disrupting an old system.


http://www.blackswanreport.com/blog/2010/01/opacity-3/

The assumption of either position for or against as absolute, is anti-science.
Science is the process of questioning the 'experts' and testing.  
It is when we stop questioning, that science ends.

In this case you are both more right than wrong.  
Climate change science is useful for statists to increase authority and that questioning this scientifically is discouraged (TPTB's point).  
Avoiding pollution and waste is the key to sustainability, and so it is prudent to avoid it (Zarathustra's point).
Where you are both wrong is in recognising that these points are not necessarily in conflict.

Learn the difference between climate and environment. A dictionary can be helpful.

I was 100% correct as usual. And I didn't even present the unarguable physical science arguments that compelled me to my position on CLIMATE.

I never said a damn thing about environment. It will be rare to catch me in a category error. Yeah shitting in your backyard environment is really smart. And no one here was conflating CLIMATE with generally adverse affects to the environment such as heavy metal or bromides contamination of the fish and soils. Putting fluoride in our water which competes for the same receptors sites in the body as a necessary nutrient iodine is really smart.

Both I and Armstrong were making that distinction between climate and environment long ago.

And you are incorrect to assume that Zaradude was arguing about environment. He is not. He doesn't have a clue about making such a distinction (nor much of anything else ... I've been arguing with him for years now ...) and certainly isn't limiting his arguments to the environment.

The reason humans can't impact the CLIMATE with CO2 is because our release of CO2 is miniscule in comparison to the CO2 absorbed and released by for example the oceans due to changes in the sea temperature due to the Sun. Even volcanos release C02 faster than humans can (not sure if they release more CO2 overall over any long period but make sure you include the undersea volcanos if you try to calculate this and include all the ones we don't know exist). That Taleb didn't apparently distinguish C02 as not being a pollutant, shows that he doesn't know how to apply his Black Swan and Anti-fragility math to the real world. The risk for the Black Swan w.r.t. to C02 is the assumption that taxing carbon can't cause a massive collapse in both the economy via the concomitant corruption. Taleb should realize which side of the argument is centralized meddling in a large scale system preventing anti-fragility.

P.S. I am not angry at you, hehe, I am just making drama with my words for the fun of it.

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June 18, 2015, 12:45:13 PM
 #26807

awemany continuing to pound on /u/nullc

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3a5f1v/mike_hearn_on_those_who_want_all_scaling_to_be/csaku38
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June 18, 2015, 12:50:38 PM
 #26808


Wow you just proved you are an idiot (or presumptuous which is the same thing). Do some research on the science. I did. And so did 9,000 PhDs.

Lazy people love to boast and we who are not lazy realize you are idiots. That is why you get the NWO enslavement that you deserve.

Wow! 9000 quacks who find themselves in opposition to physical logic, against 9 Million who don't ...

Wow! 9000 people (with PhDs) who are capable of pressing the keys on a calculator and who are not so beholden to their paycheck or otherwise too lazy, to actually do some calculations and form a scientific conclusion that is unarguable.

Or at least 9000 people who argue that the junk "science" on human climate change is worse than not compelling, and it is better to err on the side of caution instead of foisting carbon taxes on utility companies which for example has lead to Obama closing down utilities so his buddies could rake in more profits either as competitors or via extortion.

When the USA, Germany, etc are experiencing massive brownouts in the coming years, you can thank yourself.

Of course, you will at the time prefer to delude yourself and blame the collapse on the complexity of modern society or some other hairbrained  argument which is why all you fools are headed into the NWO outcome and there is nothing I can do to save you from yourself. Those of us who are wise, will fork away from you and create a glorious untrackable knowledge age economy.

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June 18, 2015, 01:23:54 PM
 #26809

Check out the linear buy ramp on bitfinex.  Anyone think a whale is accumulating?

http://www.bitcoinity.org/markets/bitfinex/USD
Zarathustra
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June 18, 2015, 02:02:06 PM
 #26810


The reason humans can't impact the CLIMATE with CO2 is because our release of CO2 is miniscule in comparison to the CO2 absorbed and released by for example the oceans due to changes in the sea temperature due to the Sun.

Complete Bullshit. That is the natural carbon circulation. Taking carbon out of the ground and transport it into the atmosphere and the ocean means to enrich the atmosphere and the ocean with additional carbon. Every child understands it.

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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June 18, 2015, 02:05:15 PM
 #26811


The reason humans can't impact the CLIMATE with CO2 is because our release of CO2 is miniscule in comparison to the CO2 absorbed and released by for example the oceans due to changes in the sea temperature due to the Sun.

Complete Bullshit. That is the natural carbon circulation. Taking carbon out of the ground and transport it into the atmosphere and the ocean means to enrich the atmosphere and the ocean with carbon. Every child understands it.

Thanks for calling this bullshit out.

Always wrong until not.
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June 18, 2015, 02:12:03 PM
 #26812


And you are incorrect to assume that Zaradude was arguing about environment. He is not.

I was arguing about the climate of the environment, just as Nassim Taleb:

But the skepticism about models that I propose does not lead to the same conclusions as the ones endorsed by anti-environmentalists, pro-market fundamentalists, quite the contrary: we need to be hyper-conservationists ecologically, super-Green, since we do not know what we are harming with now.


"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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June 18, 2015, 02:17:10 PM
 #26813


And you are incorrect to assume that Zaradude was arguing about environment. He is not.

I was arguing about the climate of the environment, just as Nassim Taleb:

But the skepticism about models that I propose does not lead to the same conclusions as the ones endorsed by anti-environmentalists, pro-market fundamentalists, quite the contrary: we need to be hyper-conservationists ecologically, super-Green, since we do not know what we are harming with now.



I think we can all agree that "green initiatives" can lead to greater environmental harm through subsidies and waste, and that systems like carbon credits probably serve to enrich and empower such regulators, but it is still crucially importantly to be aware of our individual and collective impact upon Mother Earth (for example, realizing everything's means to their ends) regardless of said political pandering.

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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June 18, 2015, 02:22:03 PM
 #26814


And you are incorrect to assume that Zaradude was arguing about environment. He is not.

I was arguing about the climate of the environment, just as Nassim Taleb:

But the skepticism about models that I propose does not lead to the same conclusions as the ones endorsed by anti-environmentalists, pro-market fundamentalists, quite the contrary: we need to be hyper-conservationists ecologically, super-Green, since we do not know what we are harming with now.



I think we can all agree that "green initiatives" can lead to greater environmental harm through subsidies and waste, and that systems like carbon credits probably serve to enrich and empower such regulators, but it is still crucially importantly to be aware of our individual and collective impact upon Mother Earth (for example, realizing everything's means to their ends) regardless of said political pandering.

I think we can all agree that Nassim Taleb is saying: We should not enrich the atmosphere with additional carbon, since we do not know the result of such crazy experiments.

"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
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June 18, 2015, 02:29:38 PM
 #26815


And you are incorrect to assume that Zaradude was arguing about environment. He is not.

I was arguing about the climate of the environment, just as Nassim Taleb:

But the skepticism about models that I propose does not lead to the same conclusions as the ones endorsed by anti-environmentalists, pro-market fundamentalists, quite the contrary: we need to be hyper-conservationists ecologically, super-Green, since we do not know what we are harming with now.



I think we can all agree that "green initiatives" can lead to greater environmental harm through subsidies and waste, and that systems like carbon credits probably serve to enrich and empower such regulators, but it is still crucially importantly to be aware of our individual and collective impact upon Mother Earth (for example, realizing everything's means to their ends) regardless of said political pandering.

I think we can all agree that Nassim Taleb is saying: We should not enrich the atmosphere with additional carbon, since we do not know the result of such crazy experiments.

My guess is that if increased carbon creating more of a greenhouse effect raises temperature (entropy) on Earth, it raises the carrying capacity of Earth for CO2 sequestrating plants and microbes, increasing the collective metabolic activity of such organisms to eventually check such emissions. I think that the emissions systems we have now do not account for the public cost of emissions and general tragedy of the commons (if demonstrable), and if that were priced in somehow fairly, that might check and smooth carbon emissions and eliminate more serious pollutants. I don't 100% trust Gore's carbon credits though. It also does not account for pollutant emissions really as far as I don't know.

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
NewLiberty
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June 18, 2015, 02:33:43 PM
 #26816

This is why I know only my design can scale the network effects.

I do not view Bitcoin as much of a threat. The only thing that compete with me is a pegged BTC side chain.

Each day before your genesis block, the Bitcoin network effect grows.
Maybe Bitcoin isn't a threat to your proposal today, but what day can we mine yours?

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June 18, 2015, 02:42:41 PM
 #26817

I think the green industry is kinda a farce anyway.
I myself have bought solars on the roof and am trying to hold back on plastic use if its possible at all.
However the industry has found a nice loophole.
They simply can buy mass fake green certificates which are available with huge numbers from countries who never ever can make up that numbers EVER.
Especially the power producers still hide the fact that most of the energy is coming from not so clean cool, gas and nuclear plants.
The fact that several countries and mostly companies do not give a rats ass what happens to the planet does show where it will lead.
Everyday you read about mass dying of animals, birds and fish but only a few care...
If humanity does not make a choice on the right path soon, the planet will eventually become a death one.
Look at huge parts of the oceans where once huge schools of fish where swimming. Now science shows only a certain yelly fish is capable of survive there.
Does this involve mining crypto coins, yes it does. The miners should at least try to get geothermal, wind ,water ,solar or any means possible to get it without burning massive amounts of oil, gas, coal or other massive polluting energy.
Because i still am sure that most of the largest energy burning industry on the planet do not care one bit about that.  
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June 18, 2015, 03:52:03 PM
 #26818


The reason humans can't impact the CLIMATE with CO2 is because our release of CO2 is miniscule in comparison to the CO2 absorbed and released by for example the oceans due to changes in the sea temperature due to the Sun.

Complete Bullshit. That is the natural carbon circulation. Taking carbon out of the ground and transport it into the atmosphere and the ocean means to enrich the atmosphere and the ocean with carbon. Every child understands it.

Thanks for calling this bullshit out.

I never heard the misused term 'enrich' abused to mischaracterize trace amounts.

Other than syntactical strawmen, do you have any scientific point?

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June 18, 2015, 03:59:05 PM
 #26819


And you are incorrect to assume that Zaradude was arguing about environment. He is not.

I was arguing about the climate of the environment, just as Nassim Taleb:

But the skepticism about models that I propose does not lead to the same conclusions as the ones endorsed by anti-environmentalists, pro-market fundamentalists, quite the contrary: we need to be hyper-conservationists ecologically, super-Green, since we do not know what we are harming with now.



I think we can all agree that "green initiatives" can lead to greater environmental harm through subsidies and waste, and that systems like carbon credits probably serve to enrich and empower such regulators, but it is still crucially importantly to be aware of our individual and collective impact upon Mother Earth (for example, realizing everything's means to their ends) regardless of said political pandering.

I think we can all agree that Nassim Taleb is saying: We should not enrich the atmosphere with additional carbon, since we do not know the result of such crazy experiments.

My guess is that if increased carbon creating more of a greenhouse effect raises temperature (entropy) on Earth, it raises the carrying capacity of Earth for CO2 sequestrating plants and microbes, increasing the collective metabolic activity of such organisms to eventually check such emissions.

Indeed global warming is positive (instead we are actually facing global cooling due to the Sun spot activity declining and the magnetic pole moving from Siberia towards North America). They were growing grapes in the UK instead of skating on ice in the Thames river.

Anyone who has survived a winter in the Arctic and a summer in the tropics understands warmer is more prosperous and easier for mankind. Airconditioning is such a miniscule cost compared to the entropy of the earth.

And indeed the earth is a self-regulating system, except for the external heat transferred from the Sun. So there is nothing we humans can do that the Earth can't incorporate into what is 'natural'. Even Chernobyl has shown the animals come back and flourish if we nuke the planet.

The Malthusians (and their fear mongering FUD) have ALWAYS been wrong and ALWAYS will be. Their FUD is always about foisting some collectivism on us, so they can implement their other politically correct ideological crap such as feminism, gay-rights, etc.. (hey gays and heterosexuals don't need any rights, if they want to fornicate then go right ahead, and who gives a flea's arse about a marriage certificate that is for slaves...haven't you read even in the Bible it says once they are bonded in the flesh, let no man undo what God aka nature hath done).

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June 18, 2015, 04:12:48 PM
 #26820

Everyday you read about mass dying of animals, birds and fish but only a few care...

And you never hear about the mass birth of animals, birds, and fish ongoing as we speak (in fact the population of animals on this planet is increasing...you just might not like that many are farm raised...so change your food buying habits!!). Nor do you study the history of repeating mass deaths of everything throughout recorded history.

FUD, FUD, FUD.

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