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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805893 times)
Carlton Banks
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June 23, 2015, 05:21:19 PM
 #27241

Lol, cypherdoc prefers his technical proposals with 120 characters or less (plus celebrities)

Carlton, listen to yourself with your series of posts.

who's acting like a child?  seriously?

people that take it so seriously they can't laugh at jokes?  Wink

Vires in numeris
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Erdogan
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June 23, 2015, 06:54:47 PM
 #27242

speaking of fallacies, what makes you think I'm a 1 MB block man?

To answer your question about who cares when 3rd world people can't get access to 1st world technology: they do. Who is this "who" that you're referring to, when you say "who cares?". What you really mean is: I'm in my little 1st world country group of people, and I don't consider these 3rd world peasants as fully fledged humans. Who cares about them? Everyone got everything solely by merit, ergo I am superior. Let me tell you, you're looking like less of a human to me.

And speaking of consensus polling, the unilateral (i.e. the perfect opposite of a consensus poll) forked client has been rejected in favor of going through the channels to consensus that already exist.

The reality is that the former XT supporters are the people who are in desperate need of a monetary despot; you can't paint unilateral forks any other way than exactly that.

Yes, its not about the 1MB forever which is insuficient for Bitcoin on the long run, its all about consensus, and how it got destroyed prior to the hardfork that removed the 21m cap, and it will happen mark my words.

totally disagree. i've followed Bitcoin and the core dev interactions for a very, very long time in Bitcoin years.  Gavin's built in increases are him trying to automate out himself as much as possible from the process going forward.  he wants to avoid, if possible, the contention that has arisen from this process.  and don't forget he's been lobbying for this increase for 3y but never got anywhere in discussions with the Blockstream folk.  so now he has introduced his first code on this matter in a BIP in Core, not XT.  

he will never propose an increase to the 21M coin cap.  these are two different things you're desperately trying to conflate to push ppl to Monero.

c'mon doc, as much as I would like to "push ppl to Monero" thats not what I mean, its not about Gavin, he is not even the lead core developer, that person is Wladimir J. van der Laan. And if someone can hijack Bitcoin to fork without consensus to increase blocks it will happen with the coin cap, its just a matter of time now I'm afraid.

This is obviously written by an agent of the state.
sickpig
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June 23, 2015, 07:09:45 PM
 #27243

that's quite encouraging.  the more i hear from this Rusty guy, the more i like him:

"Cheers,
Rusty.
PS. I work for Blockstream.  And I'm supposed to be working on
    Lightning, not this."


"this Rusty guy" is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Russell

to make a long story short he wrote Linux kernel packets filtering system ipchains/iptables (aka Linux firewall), lguest virtualization system (ancestor of docker/lxc) and contribute to samba/cifs  (a way to let Linux and ms win talk together), just to name a few.

edit: fix misattribution about samba/cifs projecf

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2015, 07:51:58 PM
 #27244

that's quite encouraging.  the more i hear from this Rusty guy, the more i like him:

"Cheers,
Rusty.
PS. I work for Blockstream.  And I'm supposed to be working on
    Lightning, not this."


"this Rusty guy" is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Russell

to make a long story short he wrote Linux kernel packets filtering system ipchains/iptables (aka Linux firewall), lguest virtualization system (ancestor of docker/lxc) and contribute to samba/cifs  (a way to let Linux and ms win talk together), just to name a few.

edit: fix misattribution about samba/cifs projecf

no, i know who he is.  i like his independent spirit.
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2015, 07:52:12 PM
 #27245

great talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIxwTx7o_B4
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2015, 08:00:55 PM
 #27246

wow, no wonder ppl are so willing to offer up their coin for short selling.  dangerous as hell though.  i won't, and never will, do it:

The Bitcoin ecosystem will soon need a reference interest rate similar to LIBOR. I am promoting the concept of BIBOR (Bitcoin Inter Broker Offered Rate). This reference rate is important in striking contracts, making loans, and for brokers providing bitcoin to potential short sellers. According to broker loan rates, the current implied annual interest rate for bitcoin is 26.5% (.0644 per day compounded x 365 days).

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114648/jon-matonis-the-bitcoin-ecosystem-will-soon-need-a-reference-interest-rate-similar-to-libor
sickpig
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June 23, 2015, 08:01:31 PM
 #27247

"this Rusty guy" is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Russell

to make a long story short he wrote Linux kernel packets filtering system ipchains/iptables (aka Linux firewall), lguest virtualization system (ancestor of docker/lxc) and contribute to samba/cifs  (a way to let Linux and ms win talk together), just to name a few.

edit: fix misattribution about samba/cifs projecf

no, i know who he is.  i like his independent spirit.

just want to be sure Tongue

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
justusranvier
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June 23, 2015, 08:08:06 PM
 #27248

to make a long story short he wrote Linux kernel packets filtering system ipchains/iptables (aka Linux firewall)
Random coincidence: You post about this today, while I've spent all day writing rules for an automation system (cfengine) that will generate the configuration files for tool for automating the creation of iptables rules (shorewall).
sickpig
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June 23, 2015, 08:43:21 PM
 #27249

to make a long story short he wrote Linux kernel packets filtering system ipchains/iptables (aka Linux firewall)
Random coincidence: You post about this today, while I've spent all day writing rules for an automation system (cfengine) that will generate the configuration files for tool for automating the creation of iptables rules (shorewall).

devops is one of my domains, though I'm currently using https://www.chef.io/, but I'll surely look at cfengine.

that said you sure are very versatile!

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
justusranvier
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June 23, 2015, 09:11:35 PM
 #27250

devops is one of my domains, though I'm currently using https://www.chef.io/, but I'll surely look at cfengine.

that said you sure are very versatile!
It's out of necessity. I have a home server whose routine maintenance is consuming too much of my time. I need to put an automation system in place so that I have more time available to do things other than keep my server running.

Also a sufficiently-complete automation system is close enough to Linux distro that I might as well make it publicly available as one.

To save time.

NewLiberty
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June 23, 2015, 09:37:14 PM
 #27251

But polls show that Gavin has a clear majority... its just certain core devs who object and not on technical grounds.  And most of them are working for a single organization.  How is that "hectoring a community"?


It isn't. Who said that?

There is a difference between "we need a hard fork to increase the block size" and "Gavin's plan is the way to do it, (which ever plan he settles upon)"

Most all the devs want a hard fork to increase block size.  Very few are on board with Gavin's plan.
Anyhow, it looks like the Bitcoin Core hard fork will be more likely to progress from gmaxwell's BIP, and the XT fork from Gavins perhaps.
They may remain compatible until there is a block that one would process and the other wouldn't.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Odalv
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June 23, 2015, 09:38:21 PM
 #27252

that's quite encouraging.  the more i hear from this Rusty guy, the more i like him:

"Cheers,
Rusty.
PS. I work for Blockstream.  And I'm supposed to be working on
    Lightning, not this."


"this Rusty guy" is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Russell

to make a long story short he wrote Linux kernel packets filtering system ipchains/iptables (aka Linux firewall), lguest virtualization system (ancestor of docker/lxc) and contribute to samba/cifs  (a way to let Linux and ms win talk together), just to name a few.

edit: fix misattribution about samba/cifs projecf

no, i know who he is.  i like his independent spirit.

Wow, what happened. Do you like "for profit" and  "blockstream" developer ?
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2015, 09:45:36 PM
 #27253

that's quite encouraging.  the more i hear from this Rusty guy, the more i like him:

"Cheers,
Rusty.
PS. I work for Blockstream.  And I'm supposed to be working on
    Lightning, not this."


"this Rusty guy" is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusty_Russell

to make a long story short he wrote Linux kernel packets filtering system ipchains/iptables (aka Linux firewall), lguest virtualization system (ancestor of docker/lxc) and contribute to samba/cifs  (a way to let Linux and ms win talk together), just to name a few.

edit: fix misattribution about samba/cifs projecf

no, i know who he is.  i like his independent spirit.

Wow, what happened. Do you like "for profit" and  "blockstream" developer ?

NO, I DON'T.
Carlton Banks
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June 23, 2015, 09:48:17 PM
 #27254

But polls show that Gavin has a clear majority... its just certain core devs who object and not on technical grounds.  And most of them are working for a single organization.  How is that "hectoring a community"?


It isn't. Who said that?

There is a difference between "we need a hard fork to increase the block size" and "Gavin's plan is the way to do it, (which ever plan he settles upon)"

Most all the devs want a hard fork to increase block size.  Very few are on board with Gavin's plan.
Anyhow, it looks like the Bitcoin Core hard fork will be more likely to progress from gmaxwell's BIP, and the XT fork from Gavins perhaps.
They may remain compatible until there is a block that one would process and the other wouldn't.

You can include me in that contingent: we do need a hard fork to increase the block size (and only for what that will achieve, buying time). Very few people are debating that now, and I myself have been aware of the scalability issue for almost as long as I've been interested in bitcoin.

Re: which designs will be implemented on which fork; I thought Gavin had decided against the hostile fork?

Vires in numeris
NewLiberty
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June 23, 2015, 09:54:39 PM
 #27255

But polls show that Gavin has a clear majority... its just certain core devs who object and not on technical grounds.  And most of them are working for a single organization.  How is that "hectoring a community"?


It isn't. Who said that?

There is a difference between "we need a hard fork to increase the block size" and "Gavin's plan is the way to do it, (which ever plan he settles upon)"

Most all the devs want a hard fork to increase block size.  Very few are on board with Gavin's plan.
Anyhow, it looks like the Bitcoin Core hard fork will be more likely to progress from gmaxwell's BIP, and the XT fork from Gavins perhaps.
They may remain compatible until there is a block that one would process and the other wouldn't.

You can include me in that contingent: we do need a hard fork to increase the block size (and only for what that will achieve, buying time). Very few people are debating that now, and I myself have been aware of the scalability issue for almost as long as I've been interested in bitcoin.

Re: which designs will be implemented on which fork; I thought Gavin had decided against the hostile fork?

I would rather see voting by miners done in the future for changes to be made in the future, than see guesses made today applied far into the future.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
Peter R
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June 23, 2015, 10:05:31 PM
 #27256

I would rather see voting by miners done in the future for changes to be made in the future, than see guesses made today applied far into the future.

For readers who have studied feedback control systems:

   Q. How do you get a good closed-loop response?

   A. Start with a good open-loop one. 

The point is that the Bitcoin system will need tweaking (feedback) at some point in time in the future.  It is best if these tweaks are as small as possible.  That means that the guesses we make now about the future (realize that there's no way not to guess) should be as realistic as possible, thereby giving us a good open-loop response that needs as little feedback as possible to correct. 

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2015, 10:08:46 PM
 #27257

I would rather see voting by miners done in the future for changes to be made in the future, than see guesses made today applied far into the future.

For readers who have studied feedback control systems:

   Q. How do you get a good closed-loop response?

   A. Start with a good open-loop one.  

The point is that the Bitcoin system will need tweaking (feedback) at some point in time in the future.  It is best if these tweaks are as small as possible.  That means that the guesses we make now about the future (realize that there's no way not to guess) should be as realistic as possible, thereby giving us a good open-loop response that needs as little feedback as possible to correct.  

Gavin's guesses about the future look pretty good to me in his current proposal.  what do you think?

i still think he is trying to automate out himself.
Carlton Banks
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June 23, 2015, 10:13:14 PM
 #27258

But polls show that Gavin has a clear majority... its just certain core devs who object and not on technical grounds.  And most of them are working for a single organization.  How is that "hectoring a community"?


It isn't. Who said that?

There is a difference between "we need a hard fork to increase the block size" and "Gavin's plan is the way to do it, (which ever plan he settles upon)"

Most all the devs want a hard fork to increase block size.  Very few are on board with Gavin's plan.
Anyhow, it looks like the Bitcoin Core hard fork will be more likely to progress from gmaxwell's BIP, and the XT fork from Gavins perhaps.
They may remain compatible until there is a block that one would process and the other wouldn't.

You can include me in that contingent: we do need a hard fork to increase the block size (and only for what that will achieve, buying time). Very few people are debating that now, and I myself have been aware of the scalability issue for almost as long as I've been interested in bitcoin.

Re: which designs will be implemented on which fork; I thought Gavin had decided against the hostile fork?

I would rather see voting by miners done in the future for changes to be made in the future, than see guesses made today applied far into the future.

That sounds sensible, but it also sounds like you're signed up to Greg Maxwell's prospectus on the issue. I like the idea of dynamic sizing, and of flexibility to make decisions only once that decision is required, but arguments have been made that this creates a perverse incentive for the miners to collude on the vote. Not to say I agree with that, but I haven't fully decided yet. This debate needs a really long time to be adequately digested. Influential people in this community arguably don't understand the system we have now for what it is, the idea that this debate is somehow ready for everyone to make an informed decision is not sensible.

Vires in numeris
Carlton Banks
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June 23, 2015, 10:19:19 PM
 #27259

I would rather see voting by miners done in the future for changes to be made in the future, than see guesses made today applied far into the future.

For readers who have studied feedback control systems:

   Q. How do you get a good closed-loop response?

   A. Start with a good open-loop one. 

The point is that the Bitcoin system will need tweaking (feedback) at some point in time in the future.  It is best if these tweaks are as small as possible.  That means that the guesses we make now about the future (realize that there's no way not to guess) should be as realistic as possible, thereby giving us a good open-loop response that needs as little feedback as possible to correct. 

There's a faint suggestion here that there is only one possible way to make bitcoin scale up, and it involves guessing which block size corresponds to which required rate of transactions. Which implies you believe the whole thing scales up using block size increases only. Is this really what you're implying?

Vires in numeris
cypherdoc
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June 23, 2015, 10:21:21 PM
 #27260

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