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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807820 times)
_mr_e
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June 29, 2015, 09:59:35 PM
 #27761

What do you mean by pools taking "defensive" action?
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June 29, 2015, 09:59:39 PM
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On topic (for about the first time in my long and sordid career here)... I gotta say that PM's today are at there sucky low levels in spite of a decline in the USDX.  This surprises me more than a bit.  My sense is that there is a lot happening behind the scenes and I'm inclined to be prepared for anything as a result of the grexit or threat there-of.  Thankfully I don't have to worry about a lot of other 'vestments since I deliberately keep my 'portfolio' pretty simple.  Were I not to do so I imagine that I might have some trouble sleeping over the next block of time.



we're at the beginning of a global change in monetary regime.
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June 29, 2015, 10:20:47 PM
 #27763

right now the only reason Greek's are getting into bitcoin is to be able to transfer their money out so its not in the banks that are closed and perhaps confiscate their wealth. Once they transfer their coins abroad they will sell them for fiat and transfer to another bank most likely(for those who dont have connections to people abroad).. however a small % will stay in bitcoin which is bullish but not as bullish as most think.

at least many of those who tries bitcoin for the first time may calmly stay in the system! which's the greatest contribution

Earn money when BTC crashes - join BTC-E PAMM
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June 29, 2015, 10:28:43 PM
 #27764


On topic (for about the first time in my long and sordid career here)... I gotta say that PM's today are at there sucky low levels in spite of a decline in the USDX.  This surprises me more than a bit.  My sense is that there is a lot happening behind the scenes and I'm inclined to be prepared for anything as a result of the grexit or threat there-of.  Thankfully I don't have to worry about a lot of other 'vestments since I deliberately keep my 'portfolio' pretty simple.  Were I not to do so I imagine that I might have some trouble sleeping over the next block of time.

Right before the '08 crisis started gold dropped a bit even though risk/volatility were rising. The reason is simple, in a debt based money system during a liquidity crisis the market becomes constrained for the cash needed to pay off debt owed. The result is the market needs to sell what it can in order to raise cash to pay off debt. This causes everything to drop (including gold) against cash as entities sell assets to raise funds.

In other words based on '08 behavior, gold unexpectedly dropping during a period of higher levels of risk (which shouldn't happen) is an indication of a coming liquidity crisis.

The problem this time is the CBs already have rates at zero and Ctrl+P turned on. They are painted in a corner this time with only fiat destruction as the way out. I have a little of GLD left in my gold portion, this as reminded me to sell that and get physical now.
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June 29, 2015, 11:22:36 PM
 #27765


On topic (for about the first time in my long and sordid career here)... I gotta say that PM's today are at there sucky low levels in spite of a decline in the USDX.  This surprises me more than a bit.  My sense is that there is a lot happening behind the scenes and I'm inclined to be prepared for anything as a result of the grexit or threat there-of.  Thankfully I don't have to worry about a lot of other 'vestments since I deliberately keep my 'portfolio' pretty simple.  Were I not to do so I imagine that I might have some trouble sleeping over the next block of time.

Right before the '08 crisis started gold dropped a bit even though risk/volatility were rising. The reason is simple, in a debt based money system during a liquidity crisis the market becomes constrained for the cash needed to pay off debt owed. The result is the market needs to sell what it can in order to raise cash to pay off debt. This causes everything to drop (including gold) against cash as entities sell assets to raise funds.

In other words based on '08 behavior, gold unexpectedly dropping during a period of higher levels of risk (which shouldn't happen) is an indication of a coming liquidity crisis.

The problem this time is the CBs already have rates at zero and Ctrl+P turned on. They are painted in a corner this time with only fiat destruction as the way out. I have a little of GLD left in my gold portion, this as reminded me to sell that and get physical now.

Yes, but I don't remember this impact preceding fairly obvious pain.  It could be that in today's more evolved shadow financial system the pain is being felt in more opaque quarters.  Or it could be that I am playing less attention now than I did back then so the pain is less apparent to me.  Or it could be that the Greek thing is no big deal and/or already priced in.  Or any number of other things may be going on.


rocks
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June 29, 2015, 11:41:45 PM
 #27766


On topic (for about the first time in my long and sordid career here)... I gotta say that PM's today are at there sucky low levels in spite of a decline in the USDX.  This surprises me more than a bit.  My sense is that there is a lot happening behind the scenes and I'm inclined to be prepared for anything as a result of the grexit or threat there-of.  Thankfully I don't have to worry about a lot of other 'vestments since I deliberately keep my 'portfolio' pretty simple.  Were I not to do so I imagine that I might have some trouble sleeping over the next block of time.

Right before the '08 crisis started gold dropped a bit even though risk/volatility were rising. The reason is simple, in a debt based money system during a liquidity crisis the market becomes constrained for the cash needed to pay off debt owed. The result is the market needs to sell what it can in order to raise cash to pay off debt. This causes everything to drop (including gold) against cash as entities sell assets to raise funds.

In other words based on '08 behavior, gold unexpectedly dropping during a period of higher levels of risk (which shouldn't happen) is an indication of a coming liquidity crisis.

The problem this time is the CBs already have rates at zero and Ctrl+P turned on. They are painted in a corner this time with only fiat destruction as the way out. I have a little of GLD left in my gold portion, this as reminded me to sell that and get physical now.

Yes, but I don't remember this impact preceding fairly obvious pain.  It could be that in today's more evolved shadow financial system the pain is being felt in more opaque quarters.  Or it could be that I am playing less attention now than I did back then so the pain is less apparent to me.  Or it could be that the Greek thing is no big deal and/or already priced in.  Or any number of other things may be going on.

Gold slowly ramped from the ~$270 low in 2001 to just touching $1000 in March 2008, after which it began to break down and spiked down to around $730 on Sept 11 2008 just before the stock market crashed. This was a >25% fall putting gold solidly into bear market status.

The stock market began to break down the week after gold touch $730s, during which time risk spiked and gold quickly rose to back to the $860 range, only to fall again in Oct after the initial stock market crash as everything in the world crashed in price. That is very high volatility for gold. I remember at the time it distinctly felt that gold broke just before the market, and then recovered as the go to safe asset as the larger stock market crashed.
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June 29, 2015, 11:49:01 PM
 #27767

annoying as hell:

tvbcof
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June 29, 2015, 11:52:37 PM
 #27768


Yes, but I don't remember this impact preceding fairly obvious pain.  It could be that in today's more evolved shadow financial system the pain is being felt in more opaque quarters.  Or it could be that I am playing less attention now than I did back then so the pain is less apparent to me.  Or it could be that the Greek thing is no big deal and/or already priced in.  Or any number of other things may be going on.

Gold slowly ramped from the ~$270 low in 2001 to just touching $1000 in March 2008, after which it began to break down and spiked down to around $730 on Sept 11 2008 just before the stock market crashed. This was a >25% fall putting gold solidly into bear market status.

The stock market began to break down the week after gold touch $730s, during which time risk spiked and gold quickly rose to back to the $860 range, only to fall again in Oct after the initial stock market crash as everything in the world crashed in price. That is very high volatility for gold. I remember at the time it distinctly felt that gold broke just before the market, and then recovered as the go to safe asset as the larger stock market crashed.

Thinking back, maybe you are right-ish.  I was in PMs and my friends were, of course, in mainstream solutions.  I do recall from the various water-cooler talk being down when they were not, but I remember being happier then them near the bottom.  I do recall clearly the 'excuse' (probably accurate) that people were putting their hands on anything of remaining value and that took PM's down during the event.

That said, PM's were volatile since I got involved around the time of 9/11 and the Central Asia war stuff that it morphed into (and as a result of my educating myself about monetary systems to figure out what was going on with it...since 9/11 was clearly not a attributable to handful of Muslims hiding out in caves half way around the world.)  The volatility (which was not a slow and steady ramp-up) may or may not have been a result of people who were in the know reacting (or front-running) economic problems that came to a (probably manufactured) head in 2008.


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June 29, 2015, 11:56:50 PM
 #27769

"85% chance that Greece is forced to leave the Euro zone".

oops.

Don't worry, because "The Financial Crisis Is Over."

Dow futures -255

Good.  More money printing quantitative easing will lead to an explosion of broadband to the home.

if you're serious then that's a great argument for block size increases.

I'm obviously mocking the irreconcilable tension between Gavin's POV and your own.

That knife will continue to be twisted, until you at least acknowledge the spectacular hypocrisy of endorsing a conclusion based on a premise ("financial crisis is over") and an assumption ('blue sky ahead') with which you famously disagree and spend hours every week contradicting/disproving.

The people in Greece/Ukraine/Venezuela/Argentina/Florida/etc. who need BTC the most are not going to see Gavin's predicted home broadband explosion as their countries' economies implode.

Good job on the ventriloquism; it really does seem like two entirely different people talking when one side of your mouth endlessly and breathlessly pimps Bitcoin as the new gold/Visa/fiat/Starbucks-gift-card, while the other side FUDs on about "choking strangled Cripplecoin."   Wink

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
iCEBREAKER
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June 30, 2015, 12:09:04 AM
 #27770

from the article:

This is not to say that Bitcoin is a divine substance or some immaculate bit of quintessence.

Blasphemy!  Angry Angry Angry  Death to the unbelieving enemies of The Holy Blockchain!!11!!1one!one2!~1!

i AM hypervigilant.  i think i see things clearly.  i don't go mad.

Yeah, whatever...TPTB also claims to be sane and (metaphorically) clear-sighted.

You have gone mad with hyper-vigilance.  We don't need that.

Listen to Szaboshi Backamoto: calm down and stop exaggerating, because we need more computer science and less drama.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
rocks
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June 30, 2015, 12:14:04 AM
 #27771


Yes, but I don't remember this impact preceding fairly obvious pain.  It could be that in today's more evolved shadow financial system the pain is being felt in more opaque quarters.  Or it could be that I am playing less attention now than I did back then so the pain is less apparent to me.  Or it could be that the Greek thing is no big deal and/or already priced in.  Or any number of other things may be going on.

Gold slowly ramped from the ~$270 low in 2001 to just touching $1000 in March 2008, after which it began to break down and spiked down to around $730 on Sept 11 2008 just before the stock market crashed. This was a >25% fall putting gold solidly into bear market status.

The stock market began to break down the week after gold touch $730s, during which time risk spiked and gold quickly rose to back to the $860 range, only to fall again in Oct after the initial stock market crash as everything in the world crashed in price. That is very high volatility for gold. I remember at the time it distinctly felt that gold broke just before the market, and then recovered as the go to safe asset as the larger stock market crashed.

Thinking back, maybe you are right-ish.  I was in PMs and my friends were, of course, in mainstream solutions.  I do recall from the various water-cooler talk being down when they were not, but I remember being happier then them near the bottom.  I do recall clearly the 'excuse' (probably accurate) that people were putting their hands on anything of remaining value and that took PM's down during the event.

That said, PM's were volatile since I got involved around the time of 9/11 and the Central Asia war stuff that it morphed into (and as a result of my educating myself about monetary systems to figure out what was going on with it...since 9/11 was clearly not a attributable to handful of Muslims hiding out in caves half way around the world.)  The volatility (which was not a slow and steady ramp-up) may or may not have been a result of people who were in the know reacting (or front-running) economic problems that came to a (probably manufactured) head in 2008.

Just dig up the daily gold and spx charts for the past 15 years, it shows this pattern. For the record I don't think gold broke before the market because gold investors are more savvy than the broader market, but instead that the gold market breaks first during a liquidity crisis when money itself becomes scarce (the week after this gold spike down, Lehman ran out of cash because there was a massive ongoing liquidity crisis, which then caused the broader market to break).
iCEBREAKER
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June 30, 2015, 12:33:24 AM
 #27772

Antpool back in defensive mode due to filled blocks.  tell me, what do we have core devs for again?:

The core devs wrote and maintain most of the code on which your nodes run.  You are biting the hand that feeds you and looking their gift horse in the mouth.  You think they are easily replaceable via a quick search on Rent-a-Coder, but that assumption is entirely incorrect.

seriously, the only reason it has evolved that way is that Blockstream is fighting for it's life.  just look at the increasingly desperate comments from Adam all over Reddit and Twitter.

lifting the 1MB DoS artificial cap should be a no brainer.

The "increasingly desperate comments" are coming from Doctor Frappuccino and the other Gavinistas. 

Case in point:

Blockstream is far from fighting for its life.  They have $21 million in the bank ATM, and that's play money for their deep pocketed investors.

Second case in point:

Lifting the 1MB cap is far from "a no brainer."  It only seem simple to you because you are simple minded.  The rest of the world is busy answering the extremely difficult empirical and theoretical questions about how/when/why to raise the limit, while you hyperventilate and whine 'faster, please!'

blocks full again with TPS unacceptably high --> unconf tx set ~ 3000, more than double normal.  pools taking defensive action.  when will Blockstream devs do something?:

There you go again.   Roll Eyes  How many times must Gavin reassure you "the sky will not fall" because of full blocks?

we're at the beginning of a global change in monetary regime.

But Gavin said the "financial crisis is over."  Perhaps this is not the best moment, in terms of political economy, to bet Bitcoin's future on his rosy prognostications about cash-flush corporations lavishing shiny new broadband infrastructure on consumers?

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
TPTB_need_war
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June 30, 2015, 12:38:56 AM
 #27773

I gotta say that PM's today are at there sucky low levels in spite of a decline in the USDX.  This surprises me more than a bit.

You wouldn't be the least bit surprised had you been following Armstrong since he has been predicting that and has explained long before it happened why it would be the case.

My sense is that there is a lot happening behind the scenes and I'm inclined to be prepared for anything as a result of the grexit or threat there-of.  Thankfully I don't have to worry about a lot of other 'vestments since I deliberately keep my 'portfolio' pretty simple.  Were I not to do so I imagine that I might have some trouble sleeping over the next block of time.

You should be worried, because it appears you don't have a correct conceptualization and thus you could lose a lot on those few investments. In particular, Bitcoin is going to take a nose dive to double-digits after this current bounce (which should top out at about $315).

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June 30, 2015, 01:11:27 AM
 #27774

I'd concur that you are more focused than average on the important things and have a much better than average interpretation of certain of the critical aspects of mainstream systems than most.  Of course, 'most' don't even know or care that such a sphere exists.

I'll concur with iCEBREAKER that you've got a knack at coming to exactly the wrong conclusions based on your analysis more often than not.  Such a shame.

Frap.doc is exhibiting classic Dunning-Kruger effects.  His high degree of expertise in medicine coupled with a bit of luck in Bitcoin has produced a pandimensional superiority complex impervious to facts and logic.

He's now a self-appointed expert in software engineering and cryptography, as evidenced by his behavior in the blocksize debate.

He's also a legal eagle, as evidence by his decision to take on Katten (a highly juiced, Obama regime connected, white shoe Chicago mobster outfit) pro se, while anyone with a lick of sense would be represented by a Baker-Botts caliber firm.

there's a difference though.

you actually believe in the concepts you've got wrong.

iCE just seems to follow the crowd.

More fact-free lunacy from Frap.doc (who just last week was bragging about his crowd-sourced upvotes).   Roll Eyes

The truth is I am notorious (and even hated by many) for going against the crowd, whether the issue is HF's supposed scamming, the Redditard lumpen's demands for 20MB blocks, the properties of colloidal silver, anthropogenic climate change, or ACTM's business plan.

DH is no a fan of mine, so I value his praise very highly:

Quote

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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June 30, 2015, 02:43:54 AM
 #27775

iCEBlow blowing more iCE.

i'm flattered you find me so important to grace my thread with your never ending presence.  keep pushing me and it UP!
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June 30, 2015, 02:46:20 AM
 #27776

Yeah, whatever...TPTB also claims to be sane and (metaphorically) clear-sighted.

Well you sure do stick to your hate of people regardless of the degree to which they are presenting logic on an issue which parallels your own.

Consistent hate is I guess a positive trait  Huh

Men are interesting creatures. They always think they are correct until they run out of resources and have to beg. Does that mean they are correct because they can until they can't?

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June 30, 2015, 03:02:53 AM
 #27777

I gotta say that PM's today are at there sucky low levels in spite of a decline in the USDX.  This surprises me more than a bit.

You wouldn't be the least bit surprised had you been following Armstrong since he has been predicting that and has explained long before it happened why it would be the case.

My sense is that there is a lot happening behind the scenes and I'm inclined to be prepared for anything as a result of the grexit or threat there-of.  Thankfully I don't have to worry about a lot of other 'vestments since I deliberately keep my 'portfolio' pretty simple.  Were I not to do so I imagine that I might have some trouble sleeping over the next block of time.

You should be worried, because it appears you don't have a correct conceptualization and thus you could lose a lot on those few investments. In particular, Bitcoin is going to take a nose dive to double-digits after this current bounce (which should top out at about $315).


Actually, tvbcof, a diversified portfolio (but not so complex that it's hard to manage) should make you sleep better.  TPTB and I have been trading, erm, "suggestions" re gold, and I would have to admit that he is right so far (gold has been going nowhere lately).  I hold Bitcoin as well.  And a variety of other assets as well.

But, I am taking a longer view, and I am more uncertain than TPTB is.  I HODL BTC and gold.  My BTC investment is relatively small, it's really more for my education than looking for a big payback.  I am trying to keep up with the current BTC issues/problems, but the nitty-gritty is WAY above my paygrade.  I also am looking forward to substantial improvements that TPTB says may be coming soon.

TPTB's recent record (all I have convenient access to anyway) is quite good.  I am paying attention to his call re BTC to go to perhaps $315 or so before tanking to double-digits.  Perhaps if we move up $30 - $40 more per BTC "soon", I may buy a wee-bit more gold with some of it.  But, no way I am cashing in "my experiment" in digital money.


[Edited above for clarity]



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June 30, 2015, 04:29:59 AM
 #27778

...since 9/11 was clearly not a attributable to handful of Muslims hiding out in caves half way around the world...


Seriously? Conspiracy theories are fun and all, but most require there to exist a level of perfection in coordination, execution, and secrecy in large organizations, or spanning far more individuals, than is rational to consider a real possibility.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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June 30, 2015, 04:51:02 AM
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...since 9/11 was clearly not a attributable to handful of Muslims hiding out in caves half way around the world...


Seriously? Conspiracy theories are fun and all, but most require there to exist a level of perfection in coordination, execution, and secrecy in large organizations, or spanning far more individuals, than is rational to consider a real possibility.

A good book on 9/11 is "Another Nineteen: Investigating Legitimate 9/11 Suspects" http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DT5DI5M/
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June 30, 2015, 05:24:52 AM
 #27780

This is about right

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3bka9i/upetertodd_is_trying_to_get_full_replacebyfee/csmxi6i
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