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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1953674 times)
traderCJ
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July 06, 2015, 08:43:41 PM
 #28281

Even if mining pools set higher fees, aren't the unconfirmed TX's still added to their mempools?
No.

In other words, cypherdoc is clueless about how Bitcoin works.

Moar like the LeBron of Lasik, am I right?   Cheesy

Doubtful.  Dr. Lowelife spends every waking moment on bitcointalk and reddit so it seems.  A malpractice suite which stuck is one hypothesis which springs to mind, and could explain an early and intense interest in asset protection.  A clinic full of subordinate eye frying minions would be another.  Neither these or countless others are really interesting enough for me to spend much time on, but perhaps others who are more into such things would ferret out this mystery.

Many of my co-workers kept a stock market ticker within easy visual reach and referred to them about 60 times per hour as they performed the tasks of the day.  That's fine for code monkeys, but for someone doing eye surgery with laser beams it's an entirely different ball of wax.



So now we know what his "highly successful business" entailed.   Roll Eyes
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July 06, 2015, 09:38:13 PM
 #28282

no, memory is not just used for 1MB blocks.  it's also used to store the mempools plus the UTXO set.  large block attacks
Again, you're wrong on the technology. The UTXO set is not held in ram. (There is caching, but its arbritary in size, controlled by the dbcache argument).

Quote
have the potential to collapse a full node by overloading the memory.  at least, that's what they've been arguing.
"They" in that case is sketchy nutballs advocating these "stress tests", and _you_ arguing that unconfirmed transactions are the real danger.

Super weird that you're arguing that the Bitcoin network is overloaded with average of space usage in blocks, while you're calling your system "under utilized" when you're using a similar proportion of your disk and enough of your ram to push you deeply into swap.

Quote
There is no requirement that mempools be in sync, -- in fact, they're not and the whole purpose of the blockchain is to synchronize nodes.  The mempools of nodes with identical fee and filtering policies and whom are similarly positioned on the network will be similar, but any change in their policies will make them quite different.
well, that was precisely Peter's mathematical point the other day that you summarily dismissed.  f2pool and Antminer are NOT in a similar position on the network as they are behind the GFC.  they have in fact changed their verification policies in response to what they deem are large, full blocks as a defensive measure.  that's why their average validation times are 16-37sec long and NOT the 80ms you claim.  thus, their k validation times of large blocks will go up and so will their number of 0 tx SPV defensive blocks. and that's why they've stated that they will continue to mine SPV blocks.  thanks for making his point.
PeterR wasn't saying anything about mempools, and-- in fact-- he responded expressing doubt about your claim that mempool size had anything to do with this.  Moreover, I gave instructions that allow _anyone_ to measure verification times for themselves.  Your argument was that miners would be burned by unconfirmed transactions, I responded that this isn't true-- in part because they can keep whatever mempool size they want.

To further make the point about mempools, here is what the mempool looks like on a node with mintxfee=0.0005 / minrelaytxfee=0.0005 set:


$ ~/bitcoin/src/bitcoin-cli  getmempoolinfo
{
    "size" : 301,
    "bytes" : 271464
}


Quote
it also is a clear sign that miners do have the ability and financial self interest to restrict block sizes and prevent bloat in the absence of a block limit.
Their response was not to use smaller blocks, their response was to stop validating entirely.  (And, as I pointed out-- other miners are apparently mining without validating and still including transactions).

Quote
these SPV related forks have only occurred, for the first time ever, now during this time period where spammers are filling up blocks and jacking up the mempool.  full blocks have been recognizable as 950+ and 720+kB.  this is undeniable.
If we're going to accept that every correlation means causation;  what should we say about the correlation between finding out that you've taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments for paid shilling and finding out loud and opinionated you are on this blocksize subject?

In this case, these forks are only visible by someone mining an invalid block, which no one had previously done for over a year.

Quote
if they are seeing inc orphans, why haven't they retracted their support of Gavin's proposal
They are no longer seeing any orphans at all, they "solved" them by skipping validation entirely. They opposed that initial proposal, in fact, and suggested they could at most handle 8MB, which brought about a new proposal which used 8MB instead of 20MB though only for a limited time. Even there the 8MB was predicated on their ability to do verification free mining, which they may be rethinking now.

Quote
i don't believe that.
I am glad to explain things to people who don't understand, but you've been so dogmatically grinding your view that it's clear that every piece of data you see will only "confirm" things for you; in light of that I don't really have unbounded time to waste trying. Perhaps someone else will.

Bitcoin will not be compromised
Odalv
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July 06, 2015, 09:55:52 PM
 #28283

... what should we say about the correlation between finding out that you've taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments for paid shilling and finding out loud and opinionated you are on this blocksize subject?


I will not be surprised if this is true. Only I'll expect higher price  ... few millions. He is fighting hard.
cypherdoc
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July 06, 2015, 10:10:48 PM
 #28284

no, memory is not just used for 1MB blocks.  it's also used to store the mempools plus the UTXO set.  large block attacks
Again, you're wrong on the technology. The UTXO set is not held in ram. (There is caching, but its arbritary in size, controlled by the dbcache argument).

Quote
have the potential to collapse a full node by overloading the memory.  at least, that's what they've been arguing.
"They" in that case is sketchy nutballs advocating these "stress tests", and _you_ arguing that unconfirmed transactions are the real danger.

Super weird that you're arguing that the Bitcoin network is overloaded with average of space usage in blocks, while you're calling your system "under utilized" when you're using a similar proportion of your disk and enough of your ram to push you deeply into swap.

Quote
There is no requirement that mempools be in sync, -- in fact, they're not and the whole purpose of the blockchain is to synchronize nodes.  The mempools of nodes with identical fee and filtering policies and whom are similarly positioned on the network will be similar, but any change in their policies will make them quite different.
well, that was precisely Peter's mathematical point the other day that you summarily dismissed.  f2pool and Antminer are NOT in a similar position on the network as they are behind the GFC.  they have in fact changed their verification policies in response to what they deem are large, full blocks as a defensive measure.  that's why their average validation times are 16-37sec long and NOT the 80ms you claim.  thus, their k validation times of large blocks will go up and so will their number of 0 tx SPV defensive blocks. and that's why they've stated that they will continue to mine SPV blocks.  thanks for making his point.
PeterR wasn't saying anything about mempools, and-- in fact-- he responded expressing doubt about your claim that mempool size had anything to do with this.  Moreover, I gave instructions that allow _anyone_ to measure verification times for themselves.  Your argument was that miners would be burned by unconfirmed transactions, I responded that this isn't true-- in part because they can keep whatever mempool size they want.

To further make the point about mempools, here is what the mempool looks like on a node with mintxfee=0.0005 / minrelaytxfee=0.0005 set:


$ ~/bitcoin/src/bitcoin-cli  getmempoolinfo
{
    "size" : 301,
    "bytes" : 271464
}


Quote
it also is a clear sign that miners do have the ability and financial self interest to restrict block sizes and prevent bloat in the absence of a block limit.
Their response was not to use smaller blocks, their response was to stop validating entirely.  (And, as I pointed out-- other miners are apparently mining without validating and still including transactions).

Quote
these SPV related forks have only occurred, for the first time ever, now during this time period where spammers are filling up blocks and jacking up the mempool.  full blocks have been recognizable as 950+ and 720+kB.  this is undeniable.
If we're going to accept that every correlation means causation;  what should we say about the correlation between finding out that you've taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments for paid shilling and finding out loud and opinionated you are on this blocksize subject?

In this case, these forks are only visible by someone mining an invalid block, which no one had previously done for over a year.

Quote
if they are seeing inc orphans, why haven't they retracted their support of Gavin's proposal
They are no longer seeing any orphans at all, they "solved" them by skipping validation entirely. They opposed that initial proposal, in fact, and suggested they could at most handle 8MB, which brought about a new proposal which used 8MB instead of 20MB though only for a limited time. Even there the 8MB was predicated on their ability to do verification free mining, which they may be rethinking now.

Quote
i don't believe that.
I am glad to explain things to people who don't understand, but you've been so dogmatically grinding your view that it's clear that every piece of data you see will only "confirm" things for you; in light of that I don't really have unbounded time to waste trying. Perhaps someone else will.


On my phone now so this is going to be hard to respond.

First, nice try pretending UTXO is not potentially a memory problem. We've had long debates about this on this thread so you are just being contrary.

Second, my reference to Peters argument above aid nothing about mempool; I was talking  about block verification times. You're obfuscation again.

Third, unlike SPV mining if 0 tx blocks like now, didn't mean they would do the same without a limit. Perhaps they would pare down block sizes to an efficient level of other larger miners were allowed to clear out the unconfirmed TX set.

Fourth, you have no shame do you with the ad hominems? No, I'm not endorsing for any company like I told everyone ahead of time I was doing for HF.
tvbcof
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July 06, 2015, 10:11:55 PM
 #28285


... what should we say about the correlation between finding out that you've taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments for paid shilling and finding out loud and opinionated you are on this blocksize subject?

I will not be surprised if this is true. Only I'll expect higher price  ... few millions. He is fighting hard.

A bit to hard I'd say.  He's losing his support base.  The more technical people first, but eventually most of those who can be dazzled by technobabble word-salad that cypherdoc himself doesn't really understand will fall away as well.

If I were hiring cypherdoc to shill for me he would have been fired about a month ago when he reached an inflection point of doing more harm than good.


traderCJ
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July 06, 2015, 10:19:35 PM
 #28286


... what should we say about the correlation between finding out that you've taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments for paid shilling and finding out loud and opinionated you are on this blocksize subject?

I will not be surprised if this is true. Only I'll expect higher price  ... few millions. He is fighting hard.

A bit to hard I'd say.  He's losing his support base.  The more technical people first, but eventually most of those who can be dazzled by technobabble word-salad that cypherdoc himself doesn't really understand will fall away as well.

If I were hiring cypherdoc to shill for me he would have been fired about a month ago when he reached an inflection point of doing more harm than good.



Rather amazing that he still is posting.  For starters, his counsel should have advised him to stop posting here.
tvbcof
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July 06, 2015, 10:23:20 PM
 #28287


... what should we say about the correlation between finding out that you've taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments for paid shilling and finding out loud and opinionated you are on this blocksize subject?

I will not be surprised if this is true. Only I'll expect higher price  ... few millions. He is fighting hard.

A bit to hard I'd say.  He's losing his support base.  The more technical people first, but eventually most of those who can be dazzled by technobabble word-salad that cypherdoc himself doesn't really understand will fall away as well.

If I were hiring cypherdoc to shill for me he would have been fired about a month ago when he reached an inflection point of doing more harm than good.

Rather amazing that he still is posting.  For starters, his counsel should have advised him to stop posting here.

Yup.  He had an opportunity to save face and bow out that way but he's blown that one.  Now he'll have to think of a different way, or hopefully stick around and continue to show the world the Gavinista's true colors.


Odalv
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July 06, 2015, 10:27:20 PM
 #28288

cypherdoc, who is paying you now ? (KNC ?)
cypherdoc
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July 06, 2015, 10:29:47 PM
 #28289

cypherdoc, who is paying you now ? (KNC ?)

LOL, no one.
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July 06, 2015, 10:33:29 PM
 #28290

cypherdoc, who is paying you now ? (KNC ?)

LOL, no one.

Then you are losing money. :-)
BlindMayorBitcorn
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July 06, 2015, 10:37:54 PM
 #28291

cypherdoc, who is paying you now ? (KNC ?)

Here bro. I heard you liked tactical pitchforks Grin


Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
tvbcof
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July 06, 2015, 10:38:34 PM
 #28292


no, memory is not just used for 1MB blocks.  it's also used to store the mempools plus the UTXO set.  large block attacks

Again, you're wrong on the technology. The UTXO set is not held in ram. (There is caching, but its arbritary in size, controlled by the dbcache argument).

Quote
have the potential to collapse a full node by overloading the memory.  at least, that's what they've been arguing.

"They" in that case is sketchy nutballs advocating these "stress tests", and _you_ arguing that unconfirmed transactions are the real danger.

Super weird that you're arguing that the Bitcoin network is overloaded with average of space usage in blocks, while you're calling your system "under utilized" when you're using a similar proportion of your disk and enough of your ram to push you deeply into swap.
...

Thanks for this tid-bit about the UTXO database.  This is the kind of info that someone who is mildly familiar with database technology but doesn't really want to make a lifes' work of studying the technicals find cumbersome to pick out.  Especially since modern Bitcoin is already past what is realistic to run behind my ($80/mo) connectivity so unless/until I set up a VM somewhere it's kind of a textbook exercise.

Just from knowing a little about database tuning and ram vs. disk-backed memory, I have always wondered if people have make projections about performance of the validation process under different scenarios and whether they can/will become problematic.  One think I've always wondered if it would be possible to structure transactions such that they would load validation processes to heavily on queue, and particularly if it is common case to push more and more data out of the dbcache.  Any thoughts on this that can be quickly conveyed?


TPTB_need_war
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July 06, 2015, 11:14:42 PM
 #28293

I favor Adam Backamoto's

stop equating Adam to Satoshi.  no contest.

you have a serious Daddy problem.

No where near as serious as those who consider cypherdoc to be some sort of daddy figure.  There are probably vastly fewer who consider you to be 'the LeBron James of Bitcoin' than you and your attorney might imagine.  Probably there are a handful though which is pretty sad.

The LeBron assertion is hilariously funny though one way or another.  Whether it was you or your attorney who came up with that one, kudos for the comic relief.

It behoves him to continue posting and proving his thread has the largest readership on bitcointalk by far because it assures he will win his case...

...the more you guys fight him and post here, the more you help him retain 3000 BTC (perhaps in collusion with HF if they aren't just derelict and who knows  Huh perhaps even the judge via his well connected Obama legal counsel  Huh that being wild speculation Huh  not an accusation ...).

Don't you realize he is either making the technical errors on purpose or it is a strategy he inherited by dumbdorc luck!

If they wanted to win, they wouldn't argue that DorkyDoc didn't do adequate promotion (because there is an entire thread on this forum showing he did, and now we have a core Dev admitting he invested 100 BTC based on Dorc's thread which adds validity to his promotional value). Rather they would...

P.S. Gmax you committed a category error. It doesn't matter to his case if he slobbers on the technology (and because so many people can't understand the technology including some of the readers here, the attorneys, and the judge); it only matters that he has a huge following.

tvbcof
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July 06, 2015, 11:16:23 PM
 #28294


It behoves him to continue posting and proving his thread has the largest readership on bitcointalk by far because it assures he will win his case...

...the more you guys fight him and post here, the more you help him retain 3000 BTC.

Don't you realize he is making the technical errors on purpose!


Good catch.  I had not thought of that.


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July 06, 2015, 11:22:42 PM
 #28295

The coin needs to be the first legitimate instance of its kind, had a fair start/emission, and a market niche
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Litecoin FAIL (not the first of its kind)
Peercoin FAIL (no market niche)
Bytecoin FAIL (not fair start)
Boolberry FAIL (not the first of its kind)
Ethereum FAIL (questionable start)
All shitcoins FAIL (2-3 counts)

Only BTC and XMR fulfill all conditions, so it makes sense to invest into them (and them alone). To be fully hedged, you can keep 99.8% in BTC and set 0.2% aside in XMR. Going over this ratio, is overinvesting in XMR.

It is not hard to come with these understandings after a generous overview of the top 50 altcoins, reason why I'm as uninpressed with LTC market as with its innovative features (none).

+1 on rpietila's logic.

I would only add it needs a reasonable shot of attaining critical mass, so the niche needs to be evaluated for that probability.

I am thinking Trapqoin has a potentially large market  Tongue

I'm thinking about maybe making Trapqoin by Shetty One Eye.

laurentmt
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July 06, 2015, 11:29:54 PM
 #28296

for each block in the Blockchain, which will help answering Q1.  Does anyone know where I can get comprehensive data on the typical node's mempool size versus time to help answer Q2?
statoshi.info might help !
EDIT: Export feature is in the "wheel" entry of the menu
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July 06, 2015, 11:50:13 PM
 #28297

Without reading every page in this thread, I'll add my two cents worth here.

I can't see a reason why Gold can't rise along with Bitcoin at the moment, just at different rates. Whereas Bitcoin can approach $1000 again by the end of year (nearly 4x the current price) similarly Gold can approach $2000 by the end of the year (nearly 2x the current price). Neither Bitcoin or Gold are undermined by debt compared to all the trillions of dollars in stocks and bonds which are leveraged to general confidence in elite lending strategies.

mymy you are severely out of context considering the last 1000 or so pages you should have read here. Tongue

anyway, do not forget about how the gold market is rigged, rotten from its heart by the FED Masters, whom nonetheless deem worth accumulating/stealing shit tons of it @FortKnox.

bitcorn and popcoin is cheap now too tho Wink

I believe both of you are so incredibly removed from reality, that it boggles my mind.

Let me try to help you, and I mean that sincerely.

We are coming into a low for private assets[1] because for the moment the contagion in Europe is driving international capital flows (capital follows capital due to the wealth effect where Δ flow != Δ mcap) into the short end of the bond curve in the core EU economies in particular Germany (and away from the long-end and peripheral EU bond markets). October will be the bottom for private assets[1], after which they will begin to rise again as they did after their 2008 implosion (dollar and US stocks were making a phase transition from public to private alignment over this period).

So you will see radical bottom in gold and BTC roughly this Sept or Oct, probably south of $850 and $150. I am thinking possibly double-digits for BTC with $100 as a psychological barrier that is necessary to shake out all the fools who bought at $600.

New all-time highs for private assets will come in 2016 or 2017. By the end of 2017, the dollar and US stocks will fall away from private assets as the influx of safe haven capital will have peaked and the strong dollar will have choked off the US economy. Then USA will go over the cliff in 2018 being the last economy still standing in the world taking us into  global economic abyss of epic deflation.

Private assets will skyrocket after 2017, but they will also be hunted by the governments like mad dog Rottweilers munching on your arm (former US Treasury official, "we will burn the fingertips of goldbugs up to their armpits").

As for the manipulation thesis, it is utter nonsense. For example, Armstrong totally annihilated Fekete's backtwardation mumbo-jumbo, especially since Armstrong is the one who taught the Arabs to lease their gold to earn income to work around the anti-usury provision of the Islamic religion. Numerous other essays from Armstrong have explained why the nutter tinfoil hats are delusional about the manipulation argument. I don't have time to repeat all that. Do yourself a research favor.


[1] which includes the dollar, US stocks, gold, bitcoin, because these are all aligned now as safe haven juxtaposed against the European contagion, i.e. the dollar and USA will receive a stampede of capital fleeing Europe after the October 2015 BIG BANG explosion of the sovereign debt (loaned from EU banks) contagion in Europe.

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July 07, 2015, 12:09:19 AM
 #28298

for each block in the Blockchain, which will help answering Q1.  Does anyone know where I can get comprehensive data on the typical node's mempool size versus time to help answer Q2?
No idea, I'm not aware of anything that tracks that-- also what does "typical mean", do you mean stock unmodified Bitcoin Core?

I expect correlation between empty blocks and mempool size-- though not for the reason you were expecting here: Createnewblock takes a long time, easily as much as 100ms,  as it sorts the mempool multiple times-- and no one has bothered optimizing this at all becuase the standard mining software will mine empty blocks while it waits for the new transaction list. So work generated in the first hundred milliseconds or so after a new block will usually be empty. (Of course miners stay on the initial work they got for a much loonger time than 100ms).

This is, however, unrelated to SPV mining-- in that case everything is still verified. As many people have pointed out (even in this thread) the interesting thing here isn't empty blocks, its the mining on an invalid chain.

And before someone runs off with an argument that aspect of the behavior, instead defines some kind of upper limit-- optimizing the mempool behavior would be trivial if anyone cared to, presumably people will care to when the fees they lose are non-negligible.  Beyond elimiating the inefficient copying and such, the simple of expident of running a two stage pool where the block creation is done against a smaller pool that constains only enough transactions for 2 blocks (which is refilled from a bigger one), would eliminate virtually all the cost. Likewise, as I pointed out up-thread incrementing your minfee can make your mempool as small as you like (the data I captured before was at a time when nodes with a default fee policy had 2.5 MB mempools).

First, nice try pretending UTXO is not potentially a memory problem. We've had long debates about this on this thread so you are just being contrary.
Uh. I don't care what the consensus of the "Gold collapsing" thread is, the UTXO set is not stored in memory. It's stored in disk,  it's in the .bitcoin/chainstate directory.  (And as you may note, a full node at initial startup uses much less memory than the current size of the UTXO). Certantly the UTXO size is a major concern for the viability of the system, since it sets a lower bound on the resource requirements (amount of online storage) for a full node... but it is not held in memory and has no risk of running hosts out of ram as you claim.

Quote
Second, my reference to Peters argument above aid nothing about mempool; I was talking  about block verification times. You're obfuscation again.
In your message to me you argued that f2pool was SPV mining becuase "the" mempool was big. I retored that their mempool has nothing to do with it, and besides they can make their mempool as small as they want. You argued that the mempools were the same, I pointed out that they were not. You responded claiming my responses was inconsistent with the points about verification delay; and I then responsed that no-- those comments were about verification delay, not mempool. The two are unrelated.  You seem to have taken as axiomatic that mempool == verification delay, a position which is technically unjustified but supports your preordaned conclusions; then you claim I'm being inconsistent when I simply point out that these things are very different and not generally related.

Quote
Third, unlike SPV mining if 0 tx blocks like now, didn't mean they would do the same without a limit. Perhaps they would pare down block sizes to an efficient level of other larger miners were allowed to clear out the unconfirmed TX set.
I think your phone made your response too short here, I'm not sure where you're going with that.

When you're back on a real computer, I'd also like to hear your response to my thought, that It is "Super weird that you're arguing that the Bitcoin network is overloaded with average of space usage in blocks, while you're calling your system "under utilized" when you're using a similar proportion of your disk and enough of your ram to push you deeply into swap."

Just from knowing a little about database tuning and ram vs. disk-backed memory, I have always wondered if people have make projections about performance of the validation process under different scenarios and whether they can/will become problematic.  One think I've always wondered if it would be possible to structure transactions such that they would load validation processes to heavily on queue, and particularly if it is common case to push more and more data out of the dbcache.  Any thoughts on this that can be quickly conveyed?
Most of the thought has just been of the forum "The utxo set size needs to be kept down" with an emphasis on the minimum resources to run a full node over the long term.  The database itself has n log n behavior, though if the working set is too large the performance falls off--and the fall of is only enormous for non-SSD drives.  Maybe the working set size is owed more attention, but my thinking there is that user tolerance for resource consumption kicks in long before thats a serious issue.

When you talk about "would it be possible" do you mean an attack?  It's possible to construct a contrived block today that takes many minutes to verify, even within the 1MB limit; though a miner that did that would mostly be hurting themselve unless they had some arrangement with most of the hashpower to accept their block.

Bitcoin will not be compromised
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July 07, 2015, 12:22:55 AM
 #28299

Without reading every page in this thread, I'll add my two cents worth here.

I can't see a reason why Gold can't rise along with Bitcoin at the moment, just at different rates. Whereas Bitcoin can approach $1000 again by the end of year (nearly 4x the current price) similarly Gold can approach $2000 by the end of the year (nearly 2x the current price). Neither Bitcoin or Gold are undermined by debt compared to all the trillions of dollars in stocks and bonds which are leveraged to general confidence in elite lending strategies.

Yeah, I don't think it makes sense to come up with the idea that Bitcoin and precious metals would be mutually exclusive. I'm pretty sure that both will rise. Even if gold might ultimately be replaced by Bitcoin I doubt that this process will be fast enough to obstruct the general upward momentum of gold in a collapsing world economy.

After all, Bitcoin's concept is like virtual gold: The supply is limited, it's very difficult to counterfeit and you have to put in substantial effort to obtain it.

The key phase shift between gold and cryptocoin will likely come after 2017, when gold will be much easier for the Rottweilers to expropriate, steal, plunder, declare as Civil Asset Forfeiture, etc. See my upthread discussion with OROBTC (or just go to his profile and read his posts as he posts infrequently).

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July 07, 2015, 12:28:49 AM
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Just from knowing a little about database tuning and ram vs. disk-backed memory, I have always wondered if people have make projections about performance of the validation process under different scenarios and whether they can/will become problematic.  One think I've always wondered if it would be possible to structure transactions such that they would load validation processes to heavily on queue, and particularly if it is common case to push more and more data out of the dbcache.  Any thoughts on this that can be quickly conveyed?

Most of the thought has just been of the forum "The utxo set size needs to be kept down" with an emphasis on the minimum resources to run a full node over the long term.  The database itself has n log n behavior, though if the working set is too large the performance falls off--and the fall of is only enormous for non-SSD drives.  Maybe the working set size is owed more attention, but my thinking there is that user tolerance for resource consumption kicks in long before thats a serious issue.

When you talk about "would it be possible" do you mean an attack?  It's possible to construct a contrived block today that takes many minutes to verify, even within the 1MB limit; though a miner that did that would mostly be hurting themselve unless they had some arrangement with most of the hashpower to accept their block.

Thanks for the input.  Yes, as an attack.  Say, for instance, one primed the blockchain with a lot of customized high-overhead transactions over a period of time.  Then, when one wished to create a disruption, take action on all of them at once thereby upsetting those who were doing real validation.

The nature of the blockchain being what it is, I see an attack being most productive at creating a period of unusability of Bitcoin rather than a full scale failure (excepting a scenario where secret keys could be compromised through a flaw in the generation process which would, of course, be highly devastating.)

I was unaware that even today it would be possible to formulate transactions of the verification complexity that you mention.  It would be interesting to know if anyone is watching the blockchain for transactions which seem to be deliberately designed this way.


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