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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805676 times)
wachtwoord
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August 13, 2014, 07:02:58 PM
 #10541

my biggest fault is underestimating just how stupid ppl can be.  as long as the protocol is intact, Bitcoin is good.  every day that goes by w/o a hack or major bug strengthens the cause and message.
As far as I'm concerned, Bitcoin is fine at this price since I don't rely on trading or speculation for income.

Thanks to Bitcoin, my income is location-independent. My savings are also location-independent and not remotely confiscatable.

Low exchange rates means my income has increased if I use Bitcoin as my unit of account (which I do).

yeah, most of the trolls around here don't realize that they'd have to take the price down to single digits to inflict any losses on to many of us.  if it just stayed where it is today, many of us could retire tomorrow.

Taking the price to any price won't inflict losses (or gains) as long as people don't sell at those prices. Paper losses people. All they can do is reduce your liquidity temporarily.

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justusranvier
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August 13, 2014, 07:04:04 PM
 #10542

most of the trolls around here don't realize that they'd have to take the price down to single digits to inflict any losses on to many of us.  if it just stayed where it is today, many of us could retire tomorrow.
I think the trolls realize that Bitcoin is a war of secession and are working for the other team.

http://www.informationweek.com/security/client/air-force-seeks-fake-online-social-media/229219056

This isn't some game - we're taking direct aim at their paychecks, perks, and pensions and they aren't going to just give those up without a fight.
cypherdoc
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August 13, 2014, 07:05:11 PM
 #10543

cypherdoc
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August 13, 2014, 07:06:49 PM
 #10544

most of the trolls around here don't realize that they'd have to take the price down to single digits to inflict any losses on to many of us.  if it just stayed where it is today, many of us could retire tomorrow.
I think the trolls realize that Bitcoin is a war of secession and are working for the other team.

http://www.informationweek.com/security/client/air-force-seeks-fake-online-social-media/229219056

This isn't some game - we're taking direct aim at their paychecks, perks, and pensions and they aren't going to just give those up without a fight.

they've been here since at least 2011 when it went to 32.  their desperation even then was palpable.
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August 13, 2014, 07:10:28 PM
 #10545

they've been here since at least 2011 when it went to 32.  their desperation was palpable.
Speaking of desperation, I hear the mood isn't all great at Defcon this year.

Nihilism, indifference, maybe even a hint of despair.

Perhaps not coincidentally, there are no Bitcoin talks at defcon this year.

How absurd is that? The hands down most interesting thing happening in the tech world right now and not one word about it at Defcon.
wachtwoord
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August 13, 2014, 07:12:10 PM
 #10546

they've been here since at least 2011 when it went to 32.  their desperation was palpable.
Speaking of desperation, I hear the mood isn't all great at Defcon this year.

Nihilism, indifference, maybe even a hint of despair.

Perhaps not coincidentally, there are no Bitcoin talks at defcon this year.

How absurd is that? The hands down most interesting thing happening in the tech world right now and not one word about it at Defcon.

Defcon in 2014 with no talks on Bitcoin is an anti-commercial for the event.

cypherdoc
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August 13, 2014, 07:14:23 PM
 #10547

looks to me that Schiff and Rickards have entered their own echo chamber out of necessity; they're the only ones left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImqxhaPyLEo

they talk about Bitcoin @ 22:00
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August 13, 2014, 07:28:43 PM
 #10548

looks to me that Schiff and Rickards have entered their own echo chamber out of necessity; they're the only ones left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImqxhaPyLEo

they talk about Bitcoin @ 22:00

it's amazing that Rickards can't see the hypocrisy in his own arguments against Bitcoin.  he's critical that Bitcoin isn't yet a unit of account.  but what about gold?  how does everyone refer to their gold values?  oh yeah, same way, in USD's!  also, he's critical of the capital gains ruling against Bitcoin.  well, what about gold again?  oh, it's tax tx is even worse as a collectible or as personal income depending on your income bracket.  he also criticizes that Bitcoiners may tax dodge, while ignoring that a fundamental property of Bitcoin is that it makes it easier to do so if one wishes compared to gold.  that's not a fault of Bitcoin, it's a fault of the owner.

Schiff still thinks it's a tulip mania destined to crash.  not sure how this squares with what Tucker claims he said.  but why should 1200 or so be a ceiling for Bitcoin when gold went to 1923 at it's peak?  what's a share of Berkshire Hathaway stock priced at?

amazingly shallow analysis.
molecular
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August 13, 2014, 07:53:48 PM
 #10549

4.5.  we’re seeing one after another of former staunch gold bugs convert:  Turk, Schiff, Rogers, and possibly Casey and Rickards.  the momentum is clear.  they will be running to Bitcoin soon.

Schiff and Rickards? According to this video they haven't come around at all. They bash it quite hard to be honest.

One might say: they're acquiring and will openly come around when they have their stash... I'm not sure about that.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Chalkbot
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August 13, 2014, 07:59:31 PM
 #10550

4.5.  we’re seeing one after another of former staunch gold bugs convert:  Turk, Schiff, Rogers, and possibly Casey and Rickards.  the momentum is clear.  they will be running to Bitcoin soon.

Schiff and Rickards? According to this video they haven't come around at all. They bash it quite hard to be honest.

One might say: they're acquiring and will openly come around when they have their stash... I'm not sure about that.

Don't these guys essentially get paid to say what gold bugs want to hear? I would not assume that they believe anything they are spewing. It would be interesting to see how they actually allocate their personal finances.
molecular
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August 13, 2014, 08:11:32 PM
 #10551

4.5.  we’re seeing one after another of former staunch gold bugs convert:  Turk, Schiff, Rogers, and possibly Casey and Rickards.  the momentum is clear.  they will be running to Bitcoin soon.

Schiff and Rickards? According to this video they haven't come around at all. They bash it quite hard to be honest.

One might say: they're acquiring and will openly come around when they have their stash... I'm not sure about that.

Don't these guys essentially get paid to say what gold bugs want to hear? I would not assume that they believe anything they are spewing. It would be interesting to see how they actually allocate their personal finances.

People giving investment advice should be transparent about their personal allocations. But that's wishful thinking. I bet it's hard to resist frontrunning your clientel when you can do it without getting caught.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Spaceman_Spiff
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August 13, 2014, 08:20:15 PM
 #10552

Don't these guys essentially get paid to say what gold bugs want to hear? I would not assume that they believe anything they are spewing. It would be interesting to see how they actually allocate their personal finances.

Don't underestimate the resistance that people put up against new ideas when they are stuck in a certain mindset.  
Crypto might sound logical and inevitable to you, doesn't make it so for others. 
cypherdoc
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August 13, 2014, 08:21:42 PM
 #10553

these are actually 2 very important graphs.  

back in 2007, i recognized that the ability of the banking elite to encumber the average US citizen with the biggest purchase in their lifetimes was coming to an end.  ever since that time, the Fed has more than quintupled the monetary base to support all sorts of bad debt instruments doled out to just about everyone except these same average US citizens.  it's clear from these graphs the jig is up. the avg person has caught on and are not participating in the necessary Ponzi scheme which is required to keep these Ponzi assets pumped up.  since the banksters can't rely on encumbering the avg citizen anymore, they've turned to gov't/Fed bailouts and free money to keep the game going.  when we start getting sovereign defaults, a fresh crisis will arise.  Argentina may represent that first salvo.  get yourselves into a digital bearer instrument asap.  and i don't mean USD's.

According to the MBA, the unadjusted purchase index is down about 10% from a year ago and have reached levels back to about 1997:


The refinance index is down 75% from the levels in May 2013 and down to about 2009 levels:
Adrian-x
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August 13, 2014, 08:30:44 PM
 #10554

4.5.  we’re seeing one after another of former staunch gold bugs convert:  Turk, Schiff, Rogers, and possibly Casey and Rickards.  the momentum is clear.  they will be running to Bitcoin soon.

Schiff and Rickards? According to this video they haven't come around at all. They bash it quite hard to be honest.

One might say: they're acquiring and will openly come around when they have their stash... I'm not sure about that.

Don't these guys essentially get paid to say what gold bugs want to hear? I would not assume that they believe anything they are spewing. It would be interesting to see how they actually allocate their personal finances.

funny that he totally spilled the beans saying the early adopters have lots of bitcoin and are now pumping it (he just left out the: you know like us gold hoarders.)

anyway all the negative argument about Bitcoin apply to gold, to be honest making something of value by melting my gold coins is not within my sphere of influence so its utility is rather impractical, however the utility in a global P2P ledger,... there are already many uses, for one both parties can prove ownership of there private keys before a deal is signed, and that is huge, cuts out the middlemen.

i think the take home from this is the SDR will back Fiat in the future, the IMF will be picking the prosperous nations of the world, the only counter balance to this cumming injustice will be the BRICs central bank if it isn't sucked into the void or doesn't cause global conflict.  

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
Chalkbot
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August 13, 2014, 08:50:40 PM
 #10555

Don't these guys essentially get paid to say what gold bugs want to hear? I would not assume that they believe anything they are spewing. It would be interesting to see how they actually allocate their personal finances.

Don't underestimate the resistance that people put up against new ideas when they are stuck in a certain mindset.  
Crypto might sound logical and inevitable to you, doesn't make it so for others. 

Yeah, I understand that for sure, I've never actually met another person in meatspace that believes it's logical or inevitable. I was just pointing out that these are smart guys. They are also guys who get paid to propagate particular ideas. The people paying them right now, want to hear about why it's safe to continue ignoring bitcoin, and they are providing that service. When someone pays you to hear about how everything they are doing is awesome, and the stuff other people are doing is irrelevant, then you provide that service to the best of your ability, or else someone else will steal your cake job.

All things considered, there's no way of telling how these guys really feel about bitcoin. All we can gather from their actions is how their audience feels about bitcoin. The fact that they are talking about it means that their audience has shifted from "bitwhat? I don't care..." to "Should I be worried about bitcoin?"
Melbustus
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August 13, 2014, 08:58:06 PM
 #10556

...
How absurd is that? The hands down most interesting thing happening in the tech world right now and not one word about it at Defcon.


Dave Perry, Charlie #Shrembot, Bryan Micon, and ytcraker gave a Skytalk on bitcoin at Defcon on Friday. I didn't attend, but Dave said he thought it went well.

I was at the Rio for the subsequent impromptu Satoshi-Square; a bunch of people came by with bitcoin questions and it seemed to me like there was more interest than last year.

From what I gather, Defcon has, since bitcoin's inception, been a particularly frustrating bucket of bitcoin skepticism in general, when you'd actually expect the exact opposite from that crowd. In any event, given my admittedly limited dataset, I'd say the attitude *is* at least improving year-to-year.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
Spaceman_Spiff
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August 13, 2014, 08:59:43 PM
 #10557

Don't these guys essentially get paid to say what gold bugs want to hear? I would not assume that they believe anything they are spewing. It would be interesting to see how they actually allocate their personal finances.

Don't underestimate the resistance that people put up against new ideas when they are stuck in a certain mindset.  
Crypto might sound logical and inevitable to you, doesn't make it so for others. 

Yeah, I understand that for sure, I've never actually met another person in meatspace that believes it's logical or inevitable. I was just pointing out that these are smart guys. They are also guys who get paid to propagate particular ideas. The people paying them right now, want to hear about why it's safe to continue ignoring bitcoin, and they are providing that service. When someone pays you to hear about how everything they are doing is awesome, and the stuff other people are doing is irrelevant, then you provide that service to the best of your ability, or else someone else will steal your cake job.

All things considered, there's no way of telling how these guys really feel about bitcoin. All we can gather from their actions is how their audience feels about bitcoin. The fact that they are talking about it means that their audience has shifted from "bitwhat? I don't care..." to "Should I be worried about bitcoin?"

While they might be buying some bitcoins on the down-low (just to be safe), if they were really convinced bitcoins were the wave of the future, they would change their tune and start building their business around it (also gives them more bragging rights later on if they were early advocates --> "Peter Schiff was right yet again" and so on..).
Melbustus
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August 13, 2014, 09:07:31 PM
 #10558

...
Where was Bitcoin when it was at 2.75 years old?
...


No. You said that further upthread too, and I let you get away with it, but this is the 2nd time, so...no! You cannot compare the time-since-inception independently for each since Bitcoin CREATED the entire crypto-currency ecosystem from scratch and had to fight that nasty battle solo. All cryptos are basically coat-tailing on the interest and groundbreaking that bitcoin has done.

So if Litecoin has any merit at all, it *should* show A LOT more relative interest/market-cap/whatever 2.75yrs into its lifecycle versus bitcoin 2.75yrs in. Litecoin has the benefit of letting something else pioneer the space; and that was the actual hard work.

Using any metric about Litecoin 2.75yrs-in versus Bitcoin 2.75yrs-in in order to supposedly demonstrate some sort of comparative long-run litecoin validity is just broken...

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
Melbustus
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August 13, 2014, 09:10:16 PM
 #10559

my biggest fault is underestimating just how stupid ppl can be.  as long as the protocol is intact, Bitcoin is good.  every day that goes by w/o a hack or major bug strengthens the cause and message.


Heh...I often feel that way too. Hence, being early in almost all of my investments. They tend to go the wrong way for a while before going very much the right way. Bitcoin is no different (was down over 90% at one point on my first 2011 purchases).

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
cypherdoc
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August 13, 2014, 09:32:14 PM
 #10560

silver continuing to be destroyed by Bitcoin.  gold will follow:

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