Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

sentiment feels pretty washed out.

[1714208763]

1714208763

[1714208763]

1714208763

[damnek]

sentiment feels pretty washed out.

It's been weeks and weeks of selling. When will it finally end?

[solex]

sentiment feels pretty washed out.

It's been weeks and weeks of selling. When will it finally end?

It may have ended on April 11th.
It is just that the climb back is a bit slow and rocky. The year started at $730 and it will probably finish above that level.

[cypherdoc]

sentiment feels pretty washed out.

It's been weeks and weeks of selling. When will it finally end?

I think soon.

[solex]

Finally! Mish is mentioning Bitcoin and not pretending it away. Another long slow conversion in progress:

"Capital Flight From China, One Person at a Time, Via ATM and Bitcoin"

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.de/2014/08/capital-flight-from-china-one-person-at.html

Also, nice to see some reality behind the theory that Bitcoin's killer app is avoiding currency controls.

[cypherdoc]

Finally! Mish is mentioning Bitcoin and not pretending it away. Another long slow conversion in progress:

"Capital Flight From China, One Person at a Time, Via ATM and Bitcoin"

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.de/2014/08/capital-flight-from-china-one-person-at.html

Also, nice to see some reality behind the theory that Bitcoin's killer app is avoiding currency controls.

Darn, that wasn't an endorsement by him.

[hardhouseinc]

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me

[cypherdoc]

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me

everytime i see ppl like you enter this thread and scream buy gold, i laugh.  b/c i think about how i sold out all my silver starting @ 48 and gold @ 1750 to then turn around and start plowing that into BTC starting @ 1.60.

so there.

edit:  it wasn't a linear sequential sell then buy process, so don't go back and line up prices with dates as they won't match up.  it was a conscious decision made to execute a transitional strategy at opportune times starting in March 2011 when i finally wrapped my head around Bitcoin after 2 mo of non-stop research starting in Jan 2011.  i have the advantage of having lived and breathed pretty much the entire life history of this ongoing up and down transition which gives me some perspective.  sure i could start being very wrong, but i don't think so.

[Zarathustra]

these are actually 2 very important graphs.  

back in 2007, i recognized that the ability of the banking elite to encumber the average US citizen with the biggest purchase in their lifetimes was coming to an end.  ever since that time, the Fed has more than quintupled the monetary base to support all sorts of bad debt instruments doled out to just about everyone except these same average US citizens.  it's clear from these graphs the jig is up. the avg person has caught on and are not participating in the necessary Ponzi scheme which is required to keep these Ponzi assets pumped up.  since the banksters can't rely on encumbering the avg citizen anymore, they've turned to gov't/Fed bailouts and free money to keep the game going.  when we start getting sovereign defaults, a fresh crisis will arise.  Argentina may represent that first salvo.  get yourselves into a digital bearer instrument asap.  and i don't mean USD's.

There is only one (1!) economist on this planet who predicted how the endgame will look like:

"Heute ist weltweit Bagehot total: Alle Staaten werden für alle Staaten, alle Notenbanken für alle Notenbanken haften, einschließlich Währungsfonds und Weltbank und vielen anderen internationalen Institutionen. Und alle Staaten werden für alle Banken geradestehen, aber auch alle Notenbanken für alle Staaten und alle Staaten für alle Notenbanken. Alle, alle, alle werden für alle, alle, alle dasein. Und alle wissen, dass keinem von allen etwas passieren darf, weil dann allen etwas zustößt." Paul C. Martin 1987

[cypherdoc]

[manfred]

[domob]

The german spike could be related to the repetition of a piece about "Bitcoin Millionaires" on Galileo, which is a popular tv show about various "science" topics.

[smoothie]

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me

everytime i see ppl like you enter this thread and scream buy gold, i laugh.  b/c i think about how i sold out all my silver starting @ 48 and gold @ 1750 to then turn around and start plowing that into BTC starting @ 1.60.

so there.

edit:  it wasn't a linear sequential sell then buy process, so don't go back and line up prices with dates as they won't match up.  it was a conscious decision made to execute a transitional strategy at opportune times starting in March 2011 when i finally wrapped my head around Bitcoin after 2 mo of non-stop research starting in Jan 2011.  i have the advantage of having lived and breathed pretty much the entire life history of this ongoing up and down transition which gives me some perspective.  sure i could start being very wrong, but i don't think so.

Don't worry people like that are only looking at the short term.

Bitcoin is waaaay up % wise over the past 3 years as compared to gold. No contest.

[Zarathustra]

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me

everytime i see ppl like you enter this thread and scream buy gold, i laugh.  b/c i think about how i sold out all my silver starting @ 48 and gold @ 1750 to then turn around and start plowing that into BTC starting @ 1.60.

so there.

edit:  it wasn't a linear sequential sell then buy process, so don't go back and line up prices with dates as they won't match up.  it was a conscious decision made to execute a transitional strategy at opportune times starting in March 2011 when i finally wrapped my head around Bitcoin after 2 mo of non-stop research starting in Jan 2011.  i have the advantage of having lived and breathed pretty much the entire life history of this ongoing up and down transition which gives me some perspective.  sure i could start being very wrong, but i don't think so.

Don't worry people like that are only looking at the short term.

Bitcoin is waaaay up % wise over the past 3 years as compared to gold. No contest.

[Grafzep]

well, i've been quite vocal about not liking the Bitcoin "fix" being planned by Second Market.  maybe routing around NY serves a purpose; avoid that debacle.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with this. Is it perhaps all the negative connotations with the word 'fix'? Perhaps there is another word that could be used for a periodic agreed trading price.

There will be a whole group of people who want to hold and (very occasionally) buy/sell bitcoin. The ones that don't want to or can't use exchanges directly and don't want to or can't be bothered with storage. They will be happy to pay their 1% for someone to manage all that and even insure it already. Whatever you think of that, it will be a legitimate service.

But that service will not be able to offer in/out, buy/sell to it's customers at what we would call "market". It simply can't work in practice: the price would change between the client's order and it's execution and that would freak out the client. No one needs or can handle the grief of every order being disputed and/or delayed or the liabilities that might follow.

So you have a daily (or twice daily) point where you try and work out a fair price and use that as the bench mark for the queued trades. You can't use a historical price because you would be played, so it has to be the next price point. Similarly, you can't just use a given exchange at a known time because that too would be easily played. So you use a basket of prices including major exchanges and major OTC brokers and make that your price point. You (perhaps mistakenly) call it the "fix".

Is it open to collusion? Obviously. But if done regularly or too brazenly then the client won't play any more and you'll be out of business. On average it'll probably be fair enough because of the tension between those that want a high price and a low price. Clients using this kind of fund don't really expect the last pip of value, they want expose and ease while they get on with the rest of their lives.

The market would handsomely reward your improved system...

[cypherdoc]

well, i've been quite vocal about not liking the Bitcoin "fix" being planned by Second Market.  maybe routing around NY serves a purpose; avoid that debacle.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with this. Is it perhaps all the negative connotations with the word 'fix'? Perhaps there is another word that could be used for a periodic agreed trading price.

There will be a whole group of people who want to hold and (very occasionally) buy/sell bitcoin. The ones that don't want to or can't use exchanges directly and don't want to or can't be bothered with storage. They will be happy to pay their 1% for someone to manage all that and even insure it already. Whatever you think of that, it will be a legitimate service.

But that service will not be able to offer in/out, buy/sell to it's customers at what we would call "market". It simply can't work in practice: the price would change between the client's order and it's execution and that would freak out the client. No one needs or can handle the grief of every order being disputed and/or delayed or the liabilities that might follow.

So you have a daily (or twice daily) point where you try and work out a fair price and use that as the bench mark for the queued trades. You can't use a historical price because you would be played, so it has to be the next price point. Similarly, you can't just use a given exchange at a known time because that too would be easily played. So you use a basket of prices including major exchanges and major OTC brokers and make that your price point. You (perhaps mistakenly) call it the "fix".

Is it open to collusion? Obviously. But if done regularly or too brazenly then the client won't play any more and you'll be out of business. On average it'll probably be fair enough because of the tension between those that want a high price and a low price. Clients using this kind of fund don't really expect the last pip of value, they want expose and ease while they get on with the rest of their lives.

The market would handsomely reward your improved system...

You mean we've never seen price collusions on closed exchanges like this before? 

The way Barry's described the way it will work is a closed bidding.process amongst only banks. We hear report after report in the news about how banks have colluded numerous times in similar situations. 

[Grafzep]

well, i've been quite vocal about not liking the Bitcoin "fix" being planned by Second Market.  maybe routing around NY serves a purpose; avoid that debacle.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with this. Is it perhaps all the negative connotations with the word 'fix'? Perhaps there is another word that could be used for a periodic agreed trading price.

There will be a whole group of people who want to hold and (very occasionally) buy/sell bitcoin. The ones that don't want to or can't use exchanges directly and don't want to or can't be bothered with storage. They will be happy to pay their 1% for someone to manage all that and even insure it already. Whatever you think of that, it will be a legitimate service.

But that service will not be able to offer in/out, buy/sell to it's customers at what we would call "market". It simply can't work in practice: the price would change between the client's order and it's execution and that would freak out the client. No one needs or can handle the grief of every order being disputed and/or delayed or the liabilities that might follow.

So you have a daily (or twice daily) point where you try and work out a fair price and use that as the bench mark for the queued trades. You can't use a historical price because you would be played, so it has to be the next price point. Similarly, you can't just use a given exchange at a known time because that too would be easily played. So you use a basket of prices including major exchanges and major OTC brokers and make that your price point. You (perhaps mistakenly) call it the "fix".

Is it open to collusion? Obviously. But if done regularly or too brazenly then the client won't play any more and you'll be out of business. On average it'll probably be fair enough because of the tension between those that want a high price and a low price. Clients using this kind of fund don't really expect the last pip of value, they want expose and ease while they get on with the rest of their lives.

The market would handsomely reward your improved system...

You mean we've never seen price collusions on closed exchanges like this before? 

The way Barry's described the way it will work is a closed bidding.process amongst only banks. We hear report after report in the news about how banks have colluded numerous times in similar situations. 

You know that's not what I mean,  , and nor is it what I say.

It looks to me like Baz is trying to put together a technical solution to the difficulty described in allowing retail to move in and out of the underlying asset. To make the collusion / bidding process manageable it of course has to be limited to vetted players. I'll take your word for it that he calls the bidders 'banks' but I've no doubt that any bringer of sufficient liquidity could get a seat.

Your apparent ungenerosity towards His Bazosity would carry more weight if you proposed a viable alternative. I happen to think that decentralisation and the market (several funds and fixes) will do much to keep the game straightish. There are very low barriers to entry in the buy-bitcoin-yourself market.

Anyway, he's gonna make us all rich n'est-ce pas?

[Erdogan]

sentiment feels pretty washed out.

It's been weeks and weeks of selling. When will it finally end?

I have to quote myself, because it was brilliantly written :

It is mind work. It consist of stretching out on the sofa, occasionally go to the screen and enter to_da_moon, sometimes endure deep despair, some euforia. That is how we build the future of money. It deserves to be rewarded, and quickly.

[wachtwoord]

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC

A lot more than you think. I believe someday you'll be quite sorry about your actions today.

[ShameOnYou]

It's 2014, who's still investing in gold?