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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803448 times)
justusranvier
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August 07, 2014, 04:53:16 PM
 #10321

Why would most of the world's population not have just as much access to off-chain solutions as they do to bitcoin directly?  I realize m of n oracle systems are not completely decentralized but they should be decentralized enough and they would be completely digital and global.
If it was possible to build an off-chain transaction system that provides the same properties as Bitcoin, then we'd just use what ever that system was and abandon Bitcoin entirely.
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cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 04:54:21 PM
 #10322

that's not necessarily true either.  with small blocks and fewer tx's, fees would increase substantially (hundreds of dollars) to hopefully compensate for diminishing block rewards.  if Bitcoin is used as a world reserve currency, then tx volumes wouldn't have to be high and could be used to settle international balance of payments btwn nations.
Those two conditions are mutually exclusive.

Few advantages an altcoin might have could overcome Bitcoin's network effect, and a three or four order of magnitude reduction in transaction fees is one of them.

well, that's not how things are evolving.

Bitcoin continues to outpace all altcoins no matter what they've promised.  and that's despite Bitcoin's 1MB limit.
justusranvier
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August 07, 2014, 05:07:11 PM
 #10323

Bitcoin continues to outpace all altcoins no matter what they've promised.  and that's despite Bitcoin's 1MB limit.
Because it hasn't become an issue yet.

But ultimately if Bitcoin isn't the best medium of exchange it won't be a store of value.

"Store of value" is an emergent property of a good medium of exchange. It's not something that can be separated as if it were independent.
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 05:28:57 PM
 #10324

Banks' Failure on 'Living Wills' Frays Relations With Regulators

http://online.wsj.com/articles/regulators-banks-optimism-killed-living-wills-1407367909?mod=rss_markets_main
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 05:29:27 PM
 #10325

Because it hasn't become an issue yet.


maybe it will never become an issue.
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 05:36:42 PM
 #10326

huh, this is a new one:

http://www.wired.com/2014/08/isp-bitcoin-theft/
oda.krell
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August 07, 2014, 05:42:32 PM
 #10327

Bitcoin continues to outpace all altcoins no matter what they've promised.  and that's despite Bitcoin's 1MB limit.
Because it hasn't become an issue yet.

But ultimately if Bitcoin isn't the best medium of exchange it won't be a store of value.

"Store of value" is an emergent property of a good medium of exchange. It's not something that can be separated as if it were independent.

I don't think the two are necessarily linked (gold, for s.o.v. without m.o.e. functionality, local currencies in high inflation regions for m.o.e. functionality without that of s.o.v.). However, it simply seems like an unnecessary risk to me to not provide that "service" (functioning as medium of exchange, scaled up to global demand) when the costs of a solution (sliding size) seem relatively low to me.

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I can highly recommend Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, extremely fast, and one of the safest ways to store and use your bitcoins.
Executables are available on the Electrum homepage, so you can get a Bitcoin wallet up and running on your own computer in a few minutes.
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 05:57:55 PM
 #10328

this too is actually good news:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/08/the_us_intellig.html
justusranvier
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August 07, 2014, 06:12:03 PM
 #10329

I don't think the two are necessarily linked (gold, for s.o.v. without m.o.e. functionality, local currencies in high inflation regions for m.o.e. functionality without that of s.o.v.).
How good is gold as a store of value, really?
jmw74
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August 07, 2014, 06:15:27 PM
 #10330

Bitcoin continues to outpace all altcoins no matter what they've promised.  and that's despite Bitcoin's 1MB limit.
Because it hasn't become an issue yet.

But ultimately if Bitcoin isn't the best medium of exchange it won't be a store of value.

"Store of value" is an emergent property of a good medium of exchange. It's not something that can be separated as if it were independent.

I haven't given this too much thought yet, but after seeing the document on "Rapidly Adjusted Micropayments to a Predetermined Party", it sure sounded like an off-chain solution to me.

It's just that the solution given in the article was a specific use case, I couldn't see any reason it could not be made generic to include more than two parties, and and adjustment period of however long you want.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party

For example, seems plausible you could implement changetip.com's off-chain ledger using this.  Each user might need 2 channels, since tips are not monotonically increasing (you might send a tip too).

Isn't the whole point of being "off chain" is that you know certain parts of the transaction graph are isolated from the rest, and that you can simply reduce them using some other mechanism and just transmit the final result to the bitcoin network?  That seems like exactly what the above document describes.


Edit: ah, the article says you can adjust both ways if nLockTime'd transactions can now enter the memory pool.  I don't know if that's enabled now or not. I think I read that locktime works but replacement does not.
justusranvier
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August 07, 2014, 06:16:00 PM
 #10331

That's part of another positive feedback loop:

1. Low morale makes potential whistleblowers more likely to speak out.

2. The management response to whistleblowing is to clamp down on internal dissent and increase employee monitoring. They turn their surveillance increasingly inward to stop the find and stop the whistleblowers.

3. These responses reduce morale in the agency.

4. Goto 1

The NSA is caught in a death spiral from which it might not recover. Eventually I assume that 100% of their resources will be devoted to internal surveillance.
ssmc2
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August 07, 2014, 06:19:55 PM
 #10332

I don't think the two are necessarily linked (gold, for s.o.v. without m.o.e. functionality, local currencies in high inflation regions for m.o.e. functionality without that of s.o.v.).
How good is gold as a store of value, really?

Not so good if you bought in summer of 2011  Tongue
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 06:24:14 PM
 #10333

That's part of another positive feedback loop:

1. Low morale makes potential whistleblowers more likely to speak out.

2. The management response to whistleblowing is to clamp down on internal dissent and increase employee monitoring. They turn their surveillance increasingly inward to stop the find and stop the whistleblowers.

3. These responses reduce morale in the agency.

4. Goto 1

The NSA is caught in a death spiral from which it might not recover. Eventually I assume that 100% of their resources will be devoted to internal surveillance.

you mean no more budget for 51% attacks?
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 06:26:41 PM
 #10334

this doesn't look so good for the most powerful EU nation:

cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 06:29:22 PM
 #10335

EU, why u no lend?

The red lines show the absolute numbers in millions of euro, the blue lines show the annual rate of change in percent.



Chalkbot
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August 07, 2014, 06:33:06 PM
 #10336

The NSA is caught in a death spiral from which it might not recover. Eventually I assume that 100% of their resources will be devoted to internal surveillance.

LOL.   I just imagined a large, secretive government agency, who's purpose is to monitor itself and everyone in it to prevent word of its existence getting out. It was funny because there's a good chance this agency already exists... I know we spend money on less productive ideas.
cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 06:34:05 PM
 #10337

Spain:



Italy:



National Bank of Greece:

cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 07:15:48 PM
 #10338

VIX getting ready to jack off again:

cypherdoc
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August 07, 2014, 07:16:55 PM
 #10339

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/497454102608347136
thezerg
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August 07, 2014, 07:21:26 PM
 #10340

they forstalled the inevitable for a while but it looks like the macroeconomic situation is starting to favor bitcoin again...
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