Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Update:

Bitcoin:  +135%

Gold:  +1%

Difference:  +134% advantage Bitcoin!

GPL:  -16% silverbox long

GG:  +17% cypherdoc short  

Here we go again..  Where did you post your initial position in GG?? hmm??  I can pick some random thing and say that I opened a position in the past and that I'm showing a profit as well....   The only thing that you concretely stated when you opened the position and then stated when you closed you LOST money on..  

ok, if u insist.  it was up 18% before this morning's bounce:

[adamstgBit]

Gold:  +1%, really?

[cypherdoc]

Gold:  +1%, really?

actually the Bitcoin advantage over gold is vastly understated since Bitcoin's inception in 1/09.  but there have been a few guys here on the thread who have insisted that we use the beginning of this thread as a starting point to measure gold vs. Bitcoin performance.  whatever.  i'll have u note that 3d after starting this thread Bitcoin got smashed by a Bitcoinica news event which took Bitcoin from $5.40 to $4.50 in a day or so.  but even so, Bitcoin is destroying the gold/silver non-performance.

[silverbox]

Gold:  +1%, really?

+1% from the start of this thread, when gold was 1690, when Cypher said a collapse in gold was imminent!!  Almost a year later, gold remains uncollapsed

[cypherdoc]

Gold:  +1%, really?

+1% from the start of this thread, when gold was 1690, when Cypher said a collapse in gold was imminent!!  Almost a year later, gold remains uncollapsed

hey i'll take a slow collapse.  the important thing is i swapped out the vast majority of my gold and silver for Bitcoin when it counted.

btw, i went publicly bearish on gold last year August 2011 right before the top when i started the first gold thread.

[da2ce7]

Zerohedge Reporting on Deflation:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-04/sobering-stuff

[miscreanity]

Zerohedge Reporting on Deflation:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-04/sobering-stuff

Treasury Scarcity to Grow as Fed Buys 90% of New Bonds

So asset values are set to fall by vast amounts, yet fiat is being produced to continue purchasing bonds (revenue on toxic assets is woefully insufficient for the required debt servicing); the real economy collapses underneath as the currency expands in the spotlight.

There are very few pools of wealth that protect against that situation, particularly if you live in the belly of the beast.

[cypherdoc]

Zerohedge Reporting on Deflation:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-04/sobering-stuff

Treasury Scarcity to Grow as Fed Buys 90% of New Bonds

So asset values are set to fall by vast amounts, yet fiat is being produced to continue purchasing bonds (revenue on toxic assets is woefully insufficient for the required debt servicing); the real economy collapses underneath as the currency expands in the spotlight.

There are very few pools of wealth that protect against that situation, particularly if you live in the belly of the beast.

so you finally understand the essence of the deflationary theory.  i described this UST gov't black hole mechanism last year in our old gold thread and elsewhere more than a few times.  the additional problem is that investors continue to front run the Fed monetization of UST's hoping for capital appreciation, forget the yields.  there will be no money left over for anything else ala JGB bonds.  but that could change too as every disaster is a little different.  

not sure why you don't understand that the gold market has been driven by the same debt buildup facilitated by the Fed.  it's an antiquated system that is likely to plunge with everything else except Bitcoin.

[cypherdoc]

plumbing new lows:

[cypherdoc]

this is a good article.  altho nothing earth shaking, sometimes ppl says things in a slightly different way that illuminates an incremental understanding of what Bitcoin is all about:

"Bitcoin offers what no other currency can. Access to everyone, everywhere."

 i would slightly change it to this: "Bitcoin offers what no other currency can. Access to everyone, everywhere, anytime."


http://www.reddit.com/tb/14b1dk

[miscreanity]

so you finally understand the essence of the deflationary theory.

I just reiterated the same thing I've been saying in this thread all along. It isn't hard to grasp deflation or inflation, but most don't get the interplay between the two.

Until real assets are completely exhausted and actual shortages cause widespread disruption (including starvation & death), monetary inflation can mask deflation.

Think of a runner on a treadmill. The runner is inflation, the treadmill is deflation. Until the runner's body gives out from dehydration or exhaustion, things continue as normal - at least in appearance.

[molecular]

so you finally understand the essence of the deflationary theory.

I just reiterated the same thing I've been saying in this thread all along. It isn't hard to grasp deflation or inflation, but most don't get the interplay between the two.

Until real assets are completely exhausted and actual shortages cause widespread disruption (including starvation & death), monetary inflation can mask deflation.

Think of a runner on a treadmill. The runner is inflation, the treadmill is deflation. Until the runner's body gives out from dehydration or exhaustion, things continue as normal - at least in appearance.

Oh, I got it:

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Think of a runner on a treadmill. The runner is inflation, the treadmill is deflation. Until the runner's body gives out from dehydration or exhaustion, things continue as normal - at least in appearance.

No reason why inflation can't last forever.  It's easier (less short-term negative consequences) to grow the monetary base than to shrink it.  Without monetary base reduction, deflation cannot go on forever.

Until real assets are completely exhausted and actual shortages cause widespread disruption (including starvation & death), monetary inflation can mask deflation.

shortages + money printing = inflation (when money velocity and lending is constant, which usually isn't the case after a boom period).

[cypherdoc]

Think of a runner on a treadmill. The runner is inflation, the treadmill is deflation. Until the runner's body gives out from dehydration or exhaustion, things continue as normal - at least in appearance.

No reason why inflation can't last forever.  It's easier (less short-term negative consequences) to grow the monetary base than to shrink it.  Without monetary base reduction, deflation cannot go on forever.

Until real assets are completely exhausted and actual shortages cause widespread disruption (including starvation & death), monetary inflation can mask deflation.

shortages + money printing = inflation (when money velocity and lending is constant, which usually isn't the case after a boom period).

agreed.  so tell me, where is MV going?

[cypherdoc]

i'm convinced that almost everyone here has never bought a piece of real estate and until you do, you'll never quite understand the primacy of debt:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122886.msg1341199#msg1341199

[silverbox]

plumbing new lows:

I'm not all back in yet, buying oppurtunity, it dips much more and I'll buy back in to where I was.

[cypherdoc]

plumbing new lows:

I'm not all back in yet, buying oppurtunity, it dips much more and I'll buy back in to where I was.

you keep saying that.  give us a target.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

shortages + money printing = inflation (when money velocity and lending is constant, which usually isn't the case after a boom period).

agreed.  so tell me, where is MV going?

I know it is going down, which is typical for a recession.  And this can last for a very long period, just look at Japan.  Only, it won't last forever.

[cypherdoc]

shortages + money printing = inflation (when money velocity and lending is constant, which usually isn't the case after a boom period).

agreed.  so tell me, where is MV going?

I know it is going down, which is typical for a recession.  And this can last for a very long period, just look at Japan.  Only, it won't last forever.

but its been going down since 1996.  Japan has been dropping for 30+ years.  "forever" is quite a long time investment horizon.

[cypherdoc]

here's a couple of nice piggybacking articles to illustrate just how good it is to be a bankster; if you can get the work:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/04/bank-profits-fannie-freddie/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+fortunefinance+%28Fortune+Finance%3A+Hedge+Funds%2C+Markets%2C+Mergers+%26+Acquisitions%2C+Private+Equity%2C+Venture+Capital%

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/freddie-mac-to-step-up-mortgage-repurchase-demands-2012-12-04

you have to ask yourselves what business does Fannie and Freddie (didn't they go BK?) still have accepting mortgages on behalf of the American ppl to prop up the bonuses of these guys?