[XMR] Monero Speculation

[phishead]

If Polo won't commit to them, I will be finding another exchange and encouraging others to do the same.

Centralized exchanges have their role and finding another one may the right call for you, but either way I would still encourage trying to build liquidity on bitsqaure. I've had offers on there at times but I was often alone on the order book and didn't get any fills. I'll continue to list when I have the opportunity to do so.

How solid is the Bitsquare platform?  Does it rely on "smart" contracts?  
Very solid, I have made a few trades on it.  You need to get used to the interface and the trade mechanic.  No smart contracts...but it does use multisig.

How long until it supports advanced features like margin trading?  That is probably a way out.  It needs more developers.

Is there a testnet version to try out?  There may be a test net version, but the main net works fine.

Once Bitsquare is somewhat comparable/competitive feature-wise, I'd be happy to offer some XMR there at a discount, to coax volume away from the morally hazardous exchange under the command of ETH Fed Chairman Vitalik "Helicopter" Buterin.

One other thing:  You have to keep the app running to see offers and keep the app running to keep your own offer alive.

I copied it from github but I don't know how to run the application?

[QuantumQrack]

If Polo won't commit to them, I will be finding another exchange and encouraging others to do the same.

Centralized exchanges have their role and finding another one may the right call for you, but either way I would still encourage trying to build liquidity on bitsqaure. I've had offers on there at times but I was often alone on the order book and didn't get any fills. I'll continue to list when I have the opportunity to do so.

How solid is the Bitsquare platform?  Does it rely on "smart" contracts?  
Very solid, I have made a few trades on it.  You need to get used to the interface and the trade mechanic.  No smart contracts...but it does use multisig.

How long until it supports advanced features like margin trading?  That is probably a way out.  It needs more developers.

Is there a testnet version to try out?  There may be a test net version, but the main net works fine.

Once Bitsquare is somewhat comparable/competitive feature-wise, I'd be happy to offer some XMR there at a discount, to coax volume away from the morally hazardous exchange under the command of ETH Fed Chairman Vitalik "Helicopter" Buterin.

One other thing:  You have to keep the app running to see offers and keep the app running to keep your own offer alive.

I copied it from github but I don't know how to run the application?

You just install then run the app. (.exe)

[smooth]

If Polo won't commit to them, I will be finding another exchange and encouraging others to do the same.

Centralized exchanges have their role and finding another one may the right call for you, but either way I would still encourage trying to build liquidity on bitsqaure. I've had offers on there at times but I was often alone on the order book and didn't get any fills. I'll continue to list when I have the opportunity to do so.

How solid is the Bitsquare platform?  Does it rely on "smart" contracts?  
Very solid, I have made a few trades on it.  You need to get used to the interface and the trade mechanic.  No smart contracts...but it does use multisig.

How long until it supports advanced features like margin trading?  That is probably a way out.  It needs more developers.

Is there a testnet version to try out?  There may be a test net version, but the main net works fine.

Once Bitsquare is somewhat comparable/competitive feature-wise, I'd be happy to offer some XMR there at a discount, to coax volume away from the morally hazardous exchange under the command of ETH Fed Chairman Vitalik "Helicopter" Buterin.

One other thing:  You have to keep the app running to see offers and keep the app running to keep your own offer alive.

Yeah that's the main reason I don't have offers open more often. I wish there was a command line version I could easily run on a server, and script up to notify my if a trade matches. Maybe there is but i missed it?

[iCEBREAKER]

Good news, everyone!

/u/biglambda, the comedy genius who created intheoreum.org, is rage-quitting ETH and joining Team Mustang!

He should be a good fit for Monero Mountain's thriving neckbearded turbo nrrd community, as his occupation is reportedly writing HPC compilers.   

I won't be upgrading my miner to fix the DAO and here is why. self.ethereum

submitted 13 hours ago * by biglambda

I've been mining ETH since the Olympic test net and I believe in the Ethereum blockchain. This "hack" is within consensus and the results of the hack should stand on the blockchain because /u/vbuterin is not my character Bob

If this happened on the Bitcoin blockchain, the blockchain would give zero fucks about a contract regardless of it's size. And in fact in order for "crypto law" to be a possibility, the consensus must stand. The right solution for DAO holders is to negotiate with the hacker to return the funds by allowing them to keep a percentage of the stolen coins without repercussions. If you rollback the blockchain you compromise the integrity of the entire Ethereum experiment and the value of the Ether token.

Once my miner is forked off the network, I will build a Monero client and continue mining.

Soon there will be dozens of us.  DOZENS!1!!   

[ArticMine]

Good news, everyone!

/u/biglambda, the comedy genius who created intheoreum.org, is rage-quitting ETH and joining Team Mustang!

He should be a good fit for Monero Mountain's thriving neckbearded turbo nrrd community, as his occupation is reportedly writing HPC compilers.  

I won't be upgrading my miner to fix the DAO and here is why. self.ethereum

submitted 13 hours ago * by biglambda

I've been mining ETH since the Olympic test net and I believe in the Ethereum blockchain. This "hack" is within consensus and the results of the hack should stand on the blockchain because /u/vbuterin is not my character Bob

If this happened on the Bitcoin blockchain, the blockchain would give zero fucks about a contract regardless of it's size. And in fact in order for "crypto law" to be a possibility, the consensus must stand. The right solution for DAO holders is to negotiate with the hacker to return the funds by allowing them to keep a percentage of the stolen coins without repercussions. If you rollback the blockchain you compromise the integrity of the entire Ethereum experiment and the value of the Ether token.

Once my miner is forked off the network, I will build a Monero client and continue mining.

Soon there will be dozens of us.  DOZENS!1!!  

Yes. Breaking the consensus and social covenant in Ethereum over a failed contract is the real issue here. I mean did Bitcoin fork over, pirateat40, MtGox, Silkroad in favor of the US Government, the Silkroad seizure against the US Government, etc.? No, No, No, No, ...
This also begs the question: Are all failed Ethereum contracts reversed or just those too big to fail?

Of course in Monero such selective shenanigans would be impossible because the censor would not know which transaction(s) to reverse, undo etc.

[smoothie]

Good news, everyone!

/u/biglambda, the comedy genius who created intheoreum.org, is rage-quitting ETH and joining Team Mustang!

He should be a good fit for Monero Mountain's thriving neckbearded turbo nrrd community, as his occupation is reportedly writing HPC compilers.  

I won't be upgrading my miner to fix the DAO and here is why. self.ethereum

submitted 13 hours ago * by biglambda

I've been mining ETH since the Olympic test net and I believe in the Ethereum blockchain. This "hack" is within consensus and the results of the hack should stand on the blockchain because /u/vbuterin is not my character Bob

If this happened on the Bitcoin blockchain, the blockchain would give zero fucks about a contract regardless of it's size. And in fact in order for "crypto law" to be a possibility, the consensus must stand. The right solution for DAO holders is to negotiate with the hacker to return the funds by allowing them to keep a percentage of the stolen coins without repercussions. If you rollback the blockchain you compromise the integrity of the entire Ethereum experiment and the value of the Ether token.

Once my miner is forked off the network, I will build a Monero client and continue mining.

Soon there will be dozens of us.  DOZENS!1!!  

Yes. Breaking the consensus and social covenant in Ethereum over a failed contract is the real issue here. I mean did Bitcoin fork over, pirateat40, MtGox, Silkroad in favor of the US Government, the Silkroad seizure against the US Government, etc.? No, No, No, No, ...
This also begs the question: Are all failed Ethereum contracts reversed or just those too big to fail?

Of course in Monero such selective shenanigans would be impossible because the censor would not know which transaction(s) to reverse, undo etc.

Don't you just love default privacy features?

[bitebits]

Yes. Breaking the consensus and social covenant in Ethereum over a failed contract is the real issue here. I mean did Bitcoin fork over, pirateat40, MtGox, Silkroad in favor of the US Government, the Silkroad seizure against the US Government, etc.? No, No, No, No, ...
This also begs the question: Are all failed Ethereum contracts reversed or just those too big to fail?

Of course in Monero such selective shenanigans would be impossible because the censor would not know which transaction(s) to reverse, undo etc.

Satoshi remaining anonymous and disappearing from Bitcoin turns out to be a very smart move. When things go right everybody wants it to be 'decentralized' (being able to have it's own piece of the pie). But when things go south all of the sudden action is demanded from it's founder.

Now imagine some government or three letter agency demanding changes or reversals. No thank you. It is so powerful to realize this is technically impossible for Monero.

[iCEBREAKER]

Yes. Breaking the consensus and social covenant in Ethereum over a failed contract is the real issue here. I mean did Bitcoin fork over, pirateat40, MtGox, Silkroad in favor of the US Government, the Silkroad seizure against the US Government, etc.? No, No, No, No, ...
This also begs the question: Are all failed Ethereum contracts reversed or just those too big to fail?

Of course in Monero such selective shenanigans would be impossible because the censor would not know which transaction(s) to reverse, undo etc.

It's tempting to make the point in ETH/DAO implosion discussions that if ETH was fungible it would be impossible to even consider the possibility of blacklisting "stolen" coins.

But it's better to let DAOists figure that out for themselves.

Also relevant to our fun "I TOLD U SO LOL" fun:

Dash is DigitaltrASH.

Why?  Because of this:

Only systems that are structurally incompatible with fraud don't suffer from the overhang of potential fraud.

Smooth's Razor^®

Professor l33th4x0r and LeastAuthority warned DAO about stalking attacks and called for a deployment moratorium, yet were overruled/ignored:

http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/06/17/thoughts-on-the-dao-hack/

No way in hell do these clowns deserve a bailout.

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.
-Laozi

[Shrikez]

icebreaker I think it is very unsavory of you to present the events re: Poloniex and busoni's reaction out of context.

Here's the full chat log for people who might be interested in the complete picture:

http://pastebin.com/aMKwQcHR

trading was frozen for less than 2 minutes btw...

I trust in the capability of my esteemed Monero community to build their own opinion and not run around with pitchforks and torches  screaming SCANDAL.

[iCEBREAKER]

icebreaker I think it is very unsavory of you to present the events re: Poloniex and busoni's reaction out of context.

Here's the full chat log for people who might be interested in the complete picture:

http://pastebin.com/aMKwQcHR

trading was frozen for less than 2 minutes btw...

I trust in the capability of my esteemed Monero community to build their own opinion and not run around with pitchforks and torches  screaming SCANDAL.

Fortunes were made and lost in those 2 minutes btw.

"It was only a tiny little bit of moral hazard and arbitrary winner/loser picking" isn't a convincing reason to put down the pitchforks.   

I think is is very unsavory of Polo to halt trading FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME based on orders from "Helicopter" Buterin's Plunge Protection Team.

Your distracting, myopic focus on the duration of the halt (rather than its impact on traders and the fact it happened at all) betrays the fact you don't understand how smooth's Razor applies to this situation.

Only systems that are structurally incompatible with fraud don't suffer from the overhang of potential fraud.

Do you think my request for Polo to create/clarify/enforce predetermined rules and principles governing similar future situations (rather than just following orders made under VB's coercive rollback extortion) is reasonable?

[Shrikez]

icebreaker I think it is very unsavory of you to present the events re: Poloniex and busoni's reaction out of context.

Here's the full chat log for people who might be interested in the complete picture:

http://pastebin.com/aMKwQcHR

trading was frozen for less than 2 minutes btw...

I trust in the capability of my esteemed Monero community to build their own opinion and not run around with pitchforks and torches  screaming SCANDAL.

Fortunes were made and lost in those 2 minutes btw.

"It was only a tiny little bit of moral hazard and arbitrary winner/loser picking" isn't a convincing reason to put down the pitchforks.  

I think is is very unsavory of Polo to halt trading FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME based on orders from "Helicopter" Buterin's Plunge Protection Team.

Your distracting, myopic focus on the duration of the halt (rather than its impact on traders and the fact it happened at all) betrays the fact you don't understand how smooth's Razor applies to this situation.

Only systems that are structurally incompatible with fraud don't suffer from the overhang of potential fraud.

Do you think my request for Polo to create/clarify/enforce predetermined rules and principles governing similar future situations (rather than just following orders made under VB's coercive rollback extortion) is reasonable?

I think you are expecting too much.

You pretend a perfectly balanced, economically, ethically, morally and philosophically pondered decision to be made in the very moment an event of tectonic dimensions takes place in the altcoin world. At a time where nobody, apparently not even the ETH devs have really understood what is going on, much less a bunch of exchange reps who are given no information about the nature and possible cause of said event.

If you were to read the rest of the log you would see how that unfolds...but you know that, right?

[4:47:08 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It is much more likely to cause market panic if the blockchain is considered unreliable

[4:00:11 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Disabling trading is about as extreme as it gets. Why are we being asked to do this? Is it only to prevent the attacker from cashing out?

[4:02:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: We need to know why before we do that -- we may have a better way of addressing the issue

plenty more where that came from to show that none of the exchange reps present in that chat just did what Vitalik Leninowitsch Butlerin told them to do.



You have the heart in the right place but your wrecking ball method is fucking annoying and has been for a long time.

Anyway I have no time for off topic troll wars.

ON Topic: XMR to da moon!


EDIT: for what it's worth I fully agree with you that exchanges should never halt trading as long as there isn't some serious issue with the blockchain itself!

[iCEBREAKER]

I think you are expecting too much.

You pretend a perfectly balanced, economically, ethically, morally and philosophically pondered decision to be made in the very moment an event of tectonic dimensions takes place in the altcoin world. At a time where nobody, apparently not even the ETH devs have really understood what is going on, much less a bunch of exchange reps who are given no information about the nature and possible cause of said event.

If you were to read the rest of the log you would see how that unfolds...but you know that, right?

[4:47:08 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It is much more likely to cause market panic if the blockchain is considered unreliable

[4:00:11 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Disabling trading is about as extreme as it gets. Why are we being asked to do this? Is it only to prevent the attacker from cashing out?

[4:02:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: We need to know why before we do that -- we may have a better way of addressing the issue

plenty more where that came from to show that none of the exchange reps present in that chat just did what Vitalik Leninowitsch Butlerin told them to do.



You have the heart in the right place but your wrecking ball method is fucking annoying and has been for a long time.

Anyway I have no time for off topic troll wars.

ON Topic: XMR to da moon!


EDIT: for what it's worth I fully agree with you that exchanges should never halt trading as long as there isn't some serious issue with the blockchain itself!

I didn't ask for perfection-on-the-fly, which is an unreasonable expectation.

I asked for predetermined, optimal rules and principles to be created.  Such heuristics may help even (perhaps especially) in scary, surprising, acute, unpredictable, fluid situations.

Polo needs a better approach than "LOL let's just make snap decisions under enormous pressure when something happens and see how it works out."  Especially when so many shitcoins they list (*cough* MAID and DASH *cough*) are overdue for DAO-type epic pwning.

I told you exactly what I think and you:

A. concede my heart is in the right place

but (contradicting yourself) also

B. flamebait by insinuating I'm trolling.

If the rhetorical bombast here too much for your delicate sensibilities, you may find the lighthearted fun-and-friendship emphasis over Dogecoin is a better fit.


Don't you think Polo should eschew moral hazard and confirm they will never (again) halt trading as long as there isn't some serious issue with the blockchain itself?

Or is that asking for perfection?   

[Kramerc]

Breaking out of the .001-.004 trading range will be spectacular.

[rangedriver]

ON Topic: XMR to da moon!

[Shrikez]

I think you are expecting too much.

You pretend a perfectly balanced, economically, ethically, morally and philosophically pondered decision to be made in the very moment an event of tectonic dimensions takes place in the altcoin world. At a time where nobody, apparently not even the ETH devs have really understood what is going on, much less a bunch of exchange reps who are given no information about the nature and possible cause of said event.

If you were to read the rest of the log you would see how that unfolds...but you know that, right?

[4:47:08 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: It is much more likely to cause market panic if the blockchain is considered unreliable

[4:00:11 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Disabling trading is about as extreme as it gets. Why are we being asked to do this? Is it only to prevent the attacker from cashing out?

[4:02:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: We need to know why before we do that -- we may have a better way of addressing the issue

plenty more where that came from to show that none of the exchange reps present in that chat just did what Vitalik Leninowitsch Butlerin told them to do.



You have the heart in the right place but your wrecking ball method is fucking annoying and has been for a long time.

Anyway I have no time for off topic troll wars.

ON Topic: XMR to da moon!


EDIT: for what it's worth I fully agree with you that exchanges should never halt trading as long as there isn't some serious issue with the blockchain itself!

I didn't ask for perfection-on-the-fly, which is an unreasonable expectation.

I asked for predetermined, optimal rules and principles to be created.  Such heuristics may help even (perhaps especially) in scary, surprising, acute, unpredictable, fluid situations.

Polo needs a better approach than "LOL let's just make snap decisions under enormous pressure when something happens and see how it works out."  Especially when so many shitcoins they list (*cough* MAID and DASH *cough*) are overdue for DAO-type epic pwning.

I told you exactly what I think and you:

A. concede my heart is in the right place

but (contradicting yourself) also

B. flamebait by insinuating I'm trolling.

If the rhetorical bombast here too much for your delicate sensibilities, you may find the lighthearted fun-and-friendship emphasis over Dogecoin is a better fit.


Don't you think Polo should eschew moral hazard and confirm they will never (again) halt trading as long as there isn't some serious issue with the blockchain itself?

Or is that asking for perfection?   

The trolling is in the form and approach, not the content.

You will have the last world as I have neither time nor eloquence to discuss that properly right now. btw English is my 3rd language, maybe I should indeed head to DOGE, it might better fit my capabilities. "Much amaze" and "such currency" looks a hell of a lot easier.

[tokeweed]

In the mean time, XMR is breaking out.  I missed the trade though, but have orders ready at .00235 - .00255.  I blame the DAO hack. As all my attention went there. 

Good luck to those who got in.

[B!tcoinL0ver]

In the mean time, XMR is breaking out.  I missed the trade though, but have orders ready at .00235 - .00255.  I blame the DAO hack. As all my attention went there. 

Good luck to those who got in.

this time is still goo to buying XMR ? long ? short ?

[iCEBREAKER]

The trolling is in the form and approach, not the content.

You will have the last world as I have neither time nor eloquence to discuss that properly right now. btw English is my 3rd language, maybe I should indeed head to DOGE, it might better fit my capabilities. "Much amaze" and "such currency" looks a hell of a lot easier.

Your English is better than most Americans, and conversing with me further improves your vocabulary.   

Yes, I sometimes tend be a wrecking ball (and prickly when my position is misrepresented by accusations of perfection-seeking).

But your asinine talking point about "trading was only closed for 2 minutes" is condemnable, and should be demolished.

I did that by pointing out fortunes were made and lost in that short time, with Polo admins picking the winners and losers.

Then you just dropped the argument as if you had never made it, much less read my response.

That's rude, and borderline trolling.  Did you make that "but but only 2 min" argument as a throw away position to waste my time?

Regardless, let's be friends and get back to enjoying the rally and some quality shitposting!   

[Shrikez]

The trolling is in the form and approach, not the content.

You will have the last world as I have neither time nor eloquence to discuss that properly right now. btw English is my 3rd language, maybe I should indeed head to DOGE, it might better fit my capabilities. "Much amaze" and "such currency" looks a hell of a lot easier.

Your English is better than most Americans, and conversing with me further improves your vocabulary.  

Yes, I sometimes tend be a wrecking ball (and prickly when my position is misrepresented by accusations of perfection-seeking).

But your asinine talking point about "trading was only closed for 2 minutes" is condemnable, and should be demolished.

I did that by pointing out fortunes were made and lost in that short time, with Polo admins picking the winners and losers.

Then you just dropped the argument as if you had never made it, much less read my response.

That's rude, and borderline trolling.  Did you make that "but but only 2 min" argument as a throw away position to waste my time?

Regardless, let's be friends and get back to enjoying the rally and some quality shitposting!  

*snip*

The 2 min thing was not do diminish the importance/impact/mistake of it but to show that trading was resumed as soon as exchanges understood/were told more of the actual situation. Poorly phrased and contexted, I admit.

I think the issue is ontopic after all, as long as XMR is mostly being traded on the exchange in question. An exchange that over the time of his existence has done much more right than wrong in my opinion and deserves recognition as well as criticism.

[Fatman3001]

When are you guys going to drop your fascist bully mascot?

When Monero is beaten down to 0.001? 0.0005?

iCE is a [expletive deleted], but you guys are enablers.