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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 415667 times)
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June 17, 2013, 07:10:32 PM
 #1981

Can anyone confirm they have received an ASIC from BFL?  Pictures mining would be nice.

I have one, his name is Asic. We got him from Better Florida Living. He works the family mine at night and during the day he makes the most delicious Chili Rellenos. Yum!


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June 17, 2013, 07:15:19 PM
 #1982

Can anyone confirm they have received an ASIC from BFL?  Pictures mining would be nice.

I have one, his name is Asic. We got him from Better Florida Living. He works the family mine at night and during the day he makes the most delicious Chili Rellenos. Yum!

http://www.cipamericas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/miners1.jpg

LOL... not sure if it is politically correct to laugh, but I did smile.  Thx.
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June 17, 2013, 07:15:47 PM
 #1983

True enough.  At $100 per coin, at $0.15/kw hour, a Single SC will bring in $67.07 per month after power costs at difficulty 900 million.  

At a 10x increase in hashing power, or ~280 TH, it would bring in $565 per month roughly, after power costs.  At $10 per coin, it's still bringing in $56 a month.

BFL doesn't price their products in BTC, they are sold for USD, so any factoring and figuring you do is in USD and then feel free to convert from there.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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June 17, 2013, 07:18:05 PM
 #1984

Can anyone confirm they have received an ASIC from BFL?  Pictures mining would be nice.

I posted a pic of mine a few pages back, go take a look
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June 17, 2013, 07:48:46 PM
 #1985

Butterflylabs is and has been a scam. No one listened to me 3 months ago...



....says the guy that doesn't have a jalapeno because he didn't order...

Brilliant and if he had an order you would say just shut up and get a refund and he would also be a hypocrite.

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June 17, 2013, 08:53:13 PM
 #1986

we still ordering them  Grin
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June 17, 2013, 09:23:26 PM
 #1987

Sorry Floridabear, your math is off.  At $0.15 kw/h power cost, a Single is still profitable to a worthwhile degree even at 900 million difficulty.  It's going to be a bit of time before we see 900 million difficulty, from 19 million now.

You really have to define "a bit of time." I defined it clearly in my post, and my math is not off based on the assumptions I posted. Please don't accuse me of being wrong when I provide all of the assumptions I used for the calculations, unless you've done the math with those assumptions yourself (and you can prove I did them wrong).

My math is correct according to the assumptions I gave and I stand by it. A 50 GH single will only ever produce about 28 BTC ($2800) if delivered in September and my assumptions prove correct.

If you want to argue about 18% increases every retarget being too pessimistic from Sept '13 to March '14 (when all currently available BFL devices become unprofitable at $0.11/KWh) , that's fine, but don't just say "your math is off." However, I don't think 18% is at all unreasonable. When GPUs were rolling out, we saw difficulty go from 19 to 9000 in about 5 months. And that's an order of magnitude greater than the change we're talking about (19M to 900M). If ASICs come on line at that rate, we'll be at 9 billion by February (except that none are profitable there, so it won't happen). But I don't think 900M is unreasonable by Jan 1. Granted we will see some leveling off after that as less efficient ASICs become unprofitable. But if 28 nm products are real and rolling out, they will quickly obsolete everything less efficient. This is a pretty inevitable path we're going down.

My entire point is that delays are extremely costly going forward. Progress is relentless.
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June 18, 2013, 03:45:15 AM
 #1988

has anyone here seen that?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236794.msg2392741
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June 18, 2013, 03:49:39 AM
 #1989

Ive known they are a scam for the longest time
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June 18, 2013, 03:56:43 AM
 #1990

1J92YCSidYhkYvNmV5NYmv33UZpACsggiG
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June 18, 2013, 05:24:01 AM
 #1991

 talked to a BFL customer support rep today and he said all recent orders will likely not ship until September. Seems like a losing game. Sad
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June 27, 2013, 03:15:04 AM
 #1992

scary...now shipping. does anyone know how to see an udated list?

"Life is a waterfall, we drink from the river then turn around and put up our walls"
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June 27, 2013, 05:52:31 AM
 #1993

scary...now shipping. does anyone know how to see an udated list?

Tracking BFL shipped days here:  http://bfl.miningrigstuff.com/

BTC.sx - Leveraged Bitcoin Trading. Simply use Bitcoin to take advantage of a rising or falling Bitcoin price.
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June 27, 2013, 06:34:21 AM
 #1994

That's a nice link for tracking!
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June 27, 2013, 06:38:05 AM
 #1995

Over a year and BFL hasn't cleared their back log of orders. I don't think the will for many months to come. This is why you don't take preorders for a product you don't have.

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June 27, 2013, 06:39:12 AM
 #1996

The scenarios below are called a "race to the bottom". This is seen in natural resources with a limited supply, e.g. not renewables. Famous races to the bottom include the nOrth Sea crabbing industry, old hard wood logging, coal and petroleum. As the resource bcomes scarcer more people pile in as the price goes higher. The increased rate of extraction of goods increases the rate of depletion and the price rises due to scarcity. This death spiral goes on until the bootom is hit and the entire sector, plus the industry they feed, dies a horrible death throw as they seek bail outs.

Sorry Floridabear, your math is off.  At $0.15 kw/h power cost, a Single is still profitable to a worthwhile degree even at 900 million difficulty.  It's going to be a bit of time before we see 900 million difficulty, from 19 million now.

You really have to define "a bit of time." I defined it clearly in my post, and my math is not off based on the assumptions I posted. Please don't accuse me of being wrong when I provide all of the assumptions I used for the calculations, unless you've done the math with those assumptions yourself (and you can prove I did them wrong).

My math is correct according to the assumptions I gave and I stand by it. A 50 GH single will only ever produce about 28 BTC ($2800) if delivered in September and my assumptions prove correct.

If you want to argue about 18% increases every retarget being too pessimistic from Sept '13 to March '14 (when all currently available BFL devices become unprofitable at $0.11/KWh) , that's fine, but don't just say "your math is off." However, I don't think 18% is at all unreasonable. When GPUs were rolling out, we saw difficulty go from 19 to 9000 in about 5 months. And that's an order of magnitude greater than the change we're talking about (19M to 900M). If ASICs come on line at that rate, we'll be at 9 billion by February (except that none are profitable there, so it won't happen). But I don't think 900M is unreasonable by Jan 1. Granted we will see some leveling off after that as less efficient ASICs become unprofitable. But if 28 nm products are real and rolling out, they will quickly obsolete everything less efficient. This is a pretty inevitable path we're going down.

My entire point is that delays are extremely costly going forward. Progress is relentless.

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June 27, 2013, 08:09:46 AM
 #1997

Thanks for the heads up!
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June 27, 2013, 08:35:08 AM
 #1998

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.
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June 27, 2013, 09:19:31 AM
 #1999

I have been waiting months for my jalepeno. Even if they do ship it by the time i get it 5GH/s wont even be worth it. They should offer to upgrade units for free every month they are delayed. Of course, this wont happen
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June 27, 2013, 10:06:34 AM
 #2000

BFL is a big scam even if they shipped.

If you ask me Selling Block Eruptors for 300 bucks make out to be a bigger scam.  They are basically FPGAs only tinier.  what i don't get the most is why some people here show what appears to be a true hatred towards BFL which is crazy.  Don't like it, don't buy one!  There are like a million other people who can "DIY groupbuy your Avalon chips and assmemble your boards together into kits" but I don't want to deal with all that.  Do they do things sloppy? "yes"  do they try hard to deliver the best looking "most turnkey" product?  "yes"  Sure there's KNC, there's Terrahash, but I only see rendered drawings,  I've seen multiple photos of all the different types of BFL units in testing and in the wild and on ebay and on bitmit.net  but they were NOT preorders.  They had maybe a 180% cost premium or higher over stock price.  Only other ASIC hardware on the market is...yep you said it...block eruptors, fpgas which cost like 10x for the same hashpower and blades which are like 10k for a mere 10gh/s so no...(and of course Avalons that are known to be inferior watt for watt and will easily set you back 20k [something the 75% don't have or aren't willing to risk for the BTC economy]) 

Stop complaining...find or better yet...build a better ASIC, deliver the units....then start bashing BFL after you can DELIVER where they couldn't....

yea that's right you CAN'T.

for the record...all groupbuys are just baby bfls: preorder with escrow, ppl waiting on chips and assembly of boards with chips, ppl waiting for enough buyers in the groupbuy to acquire the chips...all the bfl bottlenecks that preorders face. 

Now I do question if this will be such a lost cause that I get my unit for 4 months and they try to "hook" me into a 2.0 asic 500TH miner for 3k and 50PH for 15k preorder AGAIN to disrupt difficulty to make the current asic obsolete. 

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