Why I'm an atheist

[RJX]

All people are bad people. How can we tell? None of us live very long. At least not when compared with time that exists. If we were anywhere near perfect, we would live a lot longer.

The difference between the bad people that are in church and the bad people that are not in church is, the bad people in church know that they are bad, and have come to God to find the only relief from their badness that there is.

"Church" is a term that can mean lots of things to many different people. Often, the people in the church are seeking to help other people find relief from badness. This is done by many outside the church, as well. But since God is the only true relief from badness, the people in the church are better at it when they explain about God.

God loves you, Fluffer. His arms are wide open to save you, if only you will come to Him. You don't really need church to come to Him. You can pick up a copy of the Bible and read it to come to Him. But I am of the church, and am extending the offer of eternal life to you, the eternal life that God holds out in the pages of the Bible.

Now tell me who is bad. Is it the person who wants to change his badness by going to God, the only way to change badness? Or is it the person who wants to remain in his badness by staying away from God, the Bible and church, and locking himself into his badness thereby?

People are bad because they don't live long? That's a straight up non secquitur. People don't live long because of the conditions they live in, the physical strain they put on their bodies and most important: what they eat and drink.

Why do seaturtles live 175 years, or parrots?

We have the ability to regenerate, but we are only using very low intensity. This way bones can mend, bruises will heal and cuts are closed but broken necks are still a bit of an endeavour. Improving your diet will improve longevity, there's even companies out there that provide supplements for improving the regenarative capacity of your DNA cells.

So I disagree with that but I fully support 'going to Church' as a positive influence on those seeking guidance, or peace of mind, or strenhth. Sure, if it helps, it helps.

Mens sane in corpora sana, or as Moe Syczlak puts it: 'nice hole, nice soul'.

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[BADecker]

All people are bad people. How can we tell? None of us live very long. At least not when compared with time that exists. If we were anywhere near perfect, we would live a lot longer.

The difference between the bad people that are in church and the bad people that are not in church is, the bad people in church know that they are bad, and have come to God to find the only relief from their badness that there is.

"Church" is a term that can mean lots of things to many different people. Often, the people in the church are seeking to help other people find relief from badness. This is done by many outside the church, as well. But since God is the only true relief from badness, the people in the church are better at it when they explain about God.

God loves you, Fluffer. His arms are wide open to save you, if only you will come to Him. You don't really need church to come to Him. You can pick up a copy of the Bible and read it to come to Him. But I am of the church, and am extending the offer of eternal life to you, the eternal life that God holds out in the pages of the Bible.

Now tell me who is bad. Is it the person who wants to change his badness by going to God, the only way to change badness? Or is it the person who wants to remain in his badness by staying away from God, the Bible and church, and locking himself into his badness thereby?

People are bad because they don't live long? That's a straight up non secquitur. People don't live long because of the conditions they live in, the physical strain they put on their bodies and most important: what they eat and drink.

People aren't good enough at living to keep themselves alive very long. Death bad. People bad.

Why do seaturtles live 175 years, or parrots?

I'm sure nobody has entirely figured out the answers to these questions. Or were they rhetorical questions?

We have the ability to regenerate, but we are only using very low intensity. This way bones can mend, bruises will heal and cuts are closed but broken necks are still a bit of an endeavour. Improving your diet will improve longevity, there's even companies out there that provide supplements for improving the regenarative capacity of your DNA cells.

Except that none of the things you talk about are full cures. And nobody knows that full cures can exist in this life. We bad.

So I disagree with that but I fully support 'going to Church' as a positive influence on those seeking guidance, or peace of mind, or strenhth. Sure, if it helps, it helps.

Mens sane in corpora sana, or as Moe Syczlak puts it: 'nice hole, nice soul'.

All fun and dandy. That we know about, all church-going people die, as do the non-church-goers. Perhaps there is somebody out there somewhere, who is 500 years old. But he isn't telling, and certainly not proving it very well.

The point? Church-going is for the saving of the soul for the next life, where it will be reunited with a perfect body, where there will be no bad.

[RJX]

People aren't good enough at living to keep themselves alive very long. Death bad. People bad.

Isn't that what I said? They fill up on beer and hamburgers and then complain about cholesterol. Does that make someone bad? I'd rather call it 'unknowing', or stubborn.

I'm sure nobody has entirely figured out the answers to these questions. Or were they rhetorical questions?

You tell me. Do you think they're rhetorical? Exact numbers aside, they do grow older than humans.

Except that none of the things you talk about are full cures. And nobody knows that full cures can exist in this life. We bad.

That's my point, we are now only able to regenerate cuts and bruises because we don't pay any attention to the full potential of this feature.

[BADecker]

People aren't good enough at living to keep themselves alive very long. Death bad. People bad.

Isn't that what I said? They fill up on beer and hamburgers and then complain about cholesterol. Does that make someone bad? I'd rather call it 'unknowing', or stubborn.

People bad. These people worse.   

I'm sure nobody has entirely figured out the answers to these questions. Or were they rhetorical questions?

You tell me. Do you think they're rhetorical? Exact numbers aside, they do grow older than humans.

Yabut, do they have as much excitement in life?   

Except that none of the things you talk about are full cures. And nobody knows that full cures can exist in this life. We bad.

That's my point, we are now only able to regenerate cuts and bruises because we don't pay any attention to the full potential of this feature.

But my point is something like, CAN we pay attention to full potential. Probably not. Why not? Because many of the deep researchers will not accept the fact of God.

What does God have to do with it? The universe is one. Cause and effect show that God exists. You can't ignore fundamental science in a universe that is one and expect to get anywhere with science (fuller attention and fuller potential).

[RJX]

People bad. These people worse.   

Lol, check.

Yabut, do they have as much excitement in life?   

You know that's not the point, plus seaturtles are awesome.

But my point is something like, CAN we pay attention to full potential. Probably not. Why not? Because many of the deep researchers will not accept the fact of God.

I think we can, the potential is there but lies dormant, or maybe it's dying off I'm not sure.

Cause and effect show that God exists.

Example?

You can't ignore fundamental science in a universe that is one and expect to get anywhere with science (fuller attention and fuller potential).

I don't think I understand what you mean by this.

[BADecker]

People bad. These people worse.   

Lol, check.

Yabut, do they have as much excitement in life?   

You know that's not the point, plus seaturtles are awesome.

Most (all?) of the creatures that live longer, live slower lives. Their metabolism is slower. They don't "burn themselves out" as fast.

But my point is something like, CAN we pay attention to full potential. Probably not. Why not? Because many of the deep researchers will not accept the fact of God.

I think we can, the potential is there but lies dormant, or maybe it's dying off I'm not sure.

In several place around the world, there are groups of people, many of whom, live more than a hundred years. Science with all its money hasn't been able to figure out for sure why. And the extensions that science has done in our own lives are basically hygienic in nature.

If you check the news, it is being found that vaccines don't work as people have been led to believe. Cancer cures kill more than they save life. Nature and homeopathy work better. Cannabis oil has some 80% of its users saying that they would never go back to medicine.

The point? Are we even on the right track with medicine and research?

Cause and effect show that God exists.

Example?

Look up cause and effect. It is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. Everything is caused by something. Everything.

Greater intelligence than man must have caused man. Why. Entropy (the destroyer of complexity) exists throughout. Because of it, the lesser can never create the greater.

Entropy is reducing complexity. There must have been a beginning because of this. No eternal universe or the whole thing would have dispersed into ? ? ? long ago.

In a cause and effect universe that has intelligence (mankind), something of greater intelligence brought it into being.

The intelligence that causes our intelligence via cause and effect, after thousands of years entropy which destroys complexity, fits the dictionary definition of "God."

You can't ignore fundamental science in a universe that is one and expect to get anywhere with science (fuller attention and fuller potential).

I don't think I understand what you mean by this.

The universe is one. You can't ignore part of it in your thinking and come to accurate conclusions. When you try to ignore the basics that show God exists, you will never reach proper conclusions. You might be able to ignore the idea of God. But you can't ignore the fact of God. He is proven to exist. Ignore Him and you have to ignore at least part of science, and you will never figure out any great science by ignoring science.

Btw, I say "you" in the non-personal sense.

[RJX]

In several place around the world, there are groups of people, many of whom, live more than a hundred years. Science with all its money hasn't been able to figure out for sure why. And the extensions that science has done in our own lives are basically hygienic in nature.

If you check the news, it is being found that vaccines don't work as people have been led to believe. Cancer cures kill more than they save life. Nature and homeopathy work better. Cannabis oil has some 80% of its users saying that they would never go back to medicine.

The point? Are we even on the right track with medicine and research?

Couldn't agree more. The awnser: nope, and to 'hygenic' I'd like to add 'fincancial'.

Look up cause and effect. It is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. Everything is caused by something. Everything.

Greater intelligence than man must have caused man. Why. Entropy (the destroyer of complexity) exists throughout. Because of it, the lesser can never create the greater.

Entropy is reducing complexity. There must have been a beginning because of this. No eternal universe or the whole thing would have dispersed into ? ? ? long ago.

In a cause and effect universe that has intelligence (mankind), something of greater intelligence brought it into being.

The intelligence that causes our intelligence via cause and effect, after thousands of years entropy which destroys complexity, fits the dictionary definition of "God."

This is new to me and I will check it out.

The universe is one. You can't ignore part of it in your thinking and come to accurate conclusions. When you try to ignore the basics that show God exists, you will never reach proper conclusions. You might be able to ignore the idea of God. But you can't ignore the fact of God. He is proven to exist. Ignore Him and you have to ignore at least part of science, and you will never figure out any great science by ignoring science.

Btw, I say "you" in the non-personal sense.

Same here, I have to do some homework to provide a proper response although I'm haven't spoken against it, have I?


I take no offense to the way you write your posts, also English isn't my first language.

[BADecker]

In several place around the world, there are groups of people, many of whom, live more than a hundred years. Science with all its money hasn't been able to figure out for sure why. And the extensions that science has done in our own lives are basically hygienic in nature.

If you check the news, it is being found that vaccines don't work as people have been led to believe. Cancer cures kill more than they save life. Nature and homeopathy work better. Cannabis oil has some 80% of its users saying that they would never go back to medicine.

The point? Are we even on the right track with medicine and research?

Couldn't agree more. The awnser: nope, and to 'hygenic' I'd like to add 'fincancial'.

Look up cause and effect. It is upheld by Newton's 3rd Law. Everything is caused by something. Everything.

Greater intelligence than man must have caused man. Why. Entropy (the destroyer of complexity) exists throughout. Because of it, the lesser can never create the greater.

Entropy is reducing complexity. There must have been a beginning because of this. No eternal universe or the whole thing would have dispersed into ? ? ? long ago.

In a cause and effect universe that has intelligence (mankind), something of greater intelligence brought it into being.

The intelligence that causes our intelligence via cause and effect, after thousands of years entropy which destroys complexity, fits the dictionary definition of "God."

This is new to me and I will check it out.

The universe is one. You can't ignore part of it in your thinking and come to accurate conclusions. When you try to ignore the basics that show God exists, you will never reach proper conclusions. You might be able to ignore the idea of God. But you can't ignore the fact of God. He is proven to exist. Ignore Him and you have to ignore at least part of science, and you will never figure out any great science by ignoring science.

Btw, I say "you" in the non-personal sense.

Same here, I have to do some homework to provide a proper response although I'm haven't spoken against it, have I?


I take no offense to the way you write your posts, also English isn't my first language.

Ah! A seeker of knowledge. Nice to have met you.   

[RJX]

Ah! A seeker of knowledge. Nice to have met you.   

You forgot about me?

We've crossed swords here before. Apparently today that means something entirely different, check urban dictionary, but you know what I mean.

 

[qwik2learn]

Cause and effect show that God exists.

Example?

I provided an example; check it out:

everything seems to force to conclude that you were nothing for an eternity and are going to be nothing again for another eternity.

Incorrect.

The world and everything in it has meaning and reason, and in particular a good and indubitable meaning. It follows immediately that our worldly existence, since it has in itself at most a very dubious meaning, can only be means to the end of another existence. The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science.

You were awareness (you did exist as an aware person, so you were like human before you were conceived) for an eternity and are going to be awareness again (you are going to be alive again) for another eternity.

[BADecker]

Cause and effect show that God exists.

Example?

I provided an example; check it out:

everything seems to force to conclude that you were nothing for an eternity and are going to be nothing again for another eternity.

Incorrect.

The world and everything in it has meaning and reason, and in particular a good and indubitable meaning. It follows immediately that our worldly existence, since it has in itself at most a very dubious meaning, can only be means to the end of another existence. The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science.

You were awareness (you did exist as an aware person, so you were like human before you were conceived) for an eternity and are going to be awareness again (you are going to be alive again) for another eternity.

The core pattern of mankind being similar to the pattern of God, will recognize the new eternity as though it had been the same as the old eternity.

[qwik2learn]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

[organofcorti]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything.

[BADecker]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

Yes, but it is only the pattern that is in us. We have no strength to exercise that which is within us. Rather, we travel a path that is laid out for us, even though much of the time we feel that we are the one laying out our own path for ourselves.

[qwik2learn]

All people are bad people.

That cannot be right; I will provide a counterexample: All humans who use reason have the ability to come to a conclusion about ethical behavior. They are thereby compelled to behave ethically, and thereby they are good in their actions. A person's actions at any time may be good, so it is false to say that a person could be eternally bad.

If it were true [that what is good is undecidable by the human mind and impossible for man generally] it would mean that human reason is utterly irrational in asking the ethical questions it cannot answer, while asserting emphatically that only reason can answer our ethical dilemmas.

All people have meaning and reason, and in particular a good and indubitable meaning (purpose). The first step in self-actualization is to recognize and obey the LAWS OF GOD, by understanding them you will be able to become an effective servant of GOD.

How can we tell? None of us live very long.

Life is short, but this is a fact about nature, not man's character per se. Man carries the spirit of GOD, but man is also part of nature, so each one has a purpose for being here.

At least not when compared with time that exists. If we were anywhere near perfect, we would live a lot longer.

How do you know that this time-space is the only awareness and the only life that will ever exist or has ever existed for you? Maybe you have already lived a thousand lives and in some of them you may have even lived a thousand years? Since you have the spirit of GOD within you, you are already eternal.
It follows immediately that our worldly existence, since it has in itself at most a very dubious meaning, can only be means to the end of another existence. The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science.

Now tell me who is bad. Is it the person who wants to change his badness by going to God, the only way to change badness? Or is it the person who wants to remain in his badness by staying away from God, the Bible and church, and locking himself into his badness thereby?

You have not justified the opinion that all people are bad, so there is no reason for any individual to "know" that he is bad; it is simply not proven.

[qwik2learn]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything.

My posts are the context; I am leading this discussion to more fruitful ground, but first I need to clear up some things:

OP would like to ignore the scientific studies/observations and totally side-step the issue of rebirth (cycles) and the TRUE meaning of this life.
OP says that we are prisoners here; if this is our prison then what exactly is the reason for us being here?
I doubt that all of this "prison" stuff just caused itself by way of simple mechanism; that is absurd! Simple mechanism cannot yield the brain; according to the latest scientific tests, simple mechanism cannot even yield a functioning worm brain! Something is missing from the simple mechanistic understanding of mind.

Unfortunately, OP refuses to engage with the four points of evidence that Hammeroff puts forward. OP fails to realize that even a prison is there for a purpose; there is no prisoner without a prison and likewise there is no prison without a prisoner! OP thinks that he will be "executed", but he has no reason for thinking that his awareness will perish; everything indicates that awareness is cyclical, but one who holds to the physicalist materialist dogma will not entertain any alternative ideas.

The world and everything in it has meaning and reason, and in particular a good and indubitable meaning. It follows immediately that our worldly existence, since it has in itself at most a very dubious meaning, can only be means to the end of another existence. The idea that everything in the world has a meaning [reason] is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause, on which rests all of science.

Look at how OP brushes aside ALL relevant criticisms before even giving them a second thought; talk about closed-minded!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1424793.msg14473782#msg14473782

I don't know everything, but I question the OP, and I think I know what I'm talking about!



By the way, OP still has not answered how HE KNOWS that awareness ends at physical death, he only tells us to "face it" as if HE KNOWS it were true.  Why won't OP face the results of the AWARE study which have verified an instance of awareness after physical death?

Now I have supplied this discussion with the context it needed; hopefully you (organofcorti) can help me to get the OP to answer for his absurd claims!

[organofcorti]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything.

My posts are the context; I am leading this discussion to more fruitful ground, but first I need to clear up some things:

Back it up just a second, let me make sure I understand what you're saying -- you just post stuff apropos of nothing in particular, just stuff you find interesting?

[qwik2learn]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything.

My posts are the context; I am leading this discussion to more fruitful ground, but first I need to clear up some things:

Back it up just a second, let me make sure I understand what you're saying -- you just post stuff apropos of nothing in particular, just stuff you find interesting?

Yes, it's true.
I post interesting things.
The subject is life, GOD, rebirth.
I am discussing with OP and others.
My posts in this thread are the context.
You have to read my posts to see the context.
If you don't read my posts, you will think there is no context.
All of my posts are relevant, this quote by Eliot happens to be broad and ambiguous.
If you fail to think about what I post then you will find it challenging to ask any fruitful questions.
I refuse to accept OP's authority that awareness ends at death; he could just as easily say that it ends when you fall asleep!
I find it puzzling that atheists like OP are stating that we did not exist; why can't they just ask the question "where did we come from?" like the rest of us? 

[BADecker]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything.

My posts are the context; I am leading this discussion to more fruitful ground, but first I need to clear up some things:

Back it up just a second, let me make sure I understand what you're saying -- you just post stuff apropos of nothing in particular, just stuff you find interesting?

Yes, it's true.
I post interesting things.
The subject is life, GOD, rebirth.
I am discussing with OP and others.
My posts in this thread are the context.
You have to read my posts to see the context.
If you don't read my posts, you will think there is no context.
All of my posts are relevant, this quote by Eliot happens to be broad and ambiguous.
If you fail to think about what I post then you will find it challenging to ask any fruitful questions.
I refuse to accept OP's authority that awareness ends at death; he could just as easily say that it ends when you fall asleep!
I find it puzzling that atheists like OP are stating that we did not exist; why can't they just ask the question "where did we come from?" like the rest of us? 

Actually, it is quite easy to understand.

We all seem to have a handle on the life we live. Our experience keeps us thinking that things will go on into the future as they have in the past. Few of us realize that we don't know anything at all about our future. A sudden car accident proves this out.

This is why we have religion. Religion allows us a way to combine the fact that we know so extremely little, with the security we need to operate effectively in life. Atheism is simply another form of religion, one which allows a person with the mind-set of an atheist to live life with a semblance of security.

The fact that the atheist says or thinks that atheism isn't a religion, shows a blind spot in his mind, the likes of which all people of all religions have. We can all find religions that seem stupid to us. We might respect the people of those other religions. But we see aspects of stupidity in them that the believers of those religions don't see.

It's the same with the atheist. He sees aspects of other religions that he believes are stupid. And he doesn't see that he is doing this in religion-like fashion. The atheist wants to be strong. He wants to be secure in life without religion. So, he has set himself to believe that his atheism is not a religion. But, because he is human, he must have religion just like all the other people. He has only created for himself a religion of non-religion in atheism.

[organofcorti]

In our search for the truth, we will find that there is nothing new, there is nothing that is not already in us. However, we cannot see who we are and where we are until we go through the process. The process of searching for something outside of ourselves reveals the truth within ourselves.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-did-T-S-Elliot-mean-when-he-wrote-We-must-not-cease-from-exploration-and-the-end-of-all-our-exploring-will-be-to-arrive-where-we-began-and-to-know-the-place-for-the-first-time

What exactly did you post this in relation to? Without context it could mean anything.

My posts are the context; I am leading this discussion to more fruitful ground, but first I need to clear up some things:

Back it up just a second, let me make sure I understand what you're saying -- you just post stuff apropos of nothing in particular, just stuff you find interesting?

Yes, it's true.
I post interesting things.
The subject is life, GOD, rebirth.
I am discussing with OP and others.
My posts in this thread are the context.
You have to read my posts to see the context.
If you don't read my posts, you will think there is no context.
All of my posts are relevant, this quote by Eliot happens to be broad and ambiguous.
If you fail to think about what I post then you will find it challenging to ask any fruitful questions.
I refuse to accept OP's authority that awareness ends at death; he could just as easily say that it ends when you fall asleep!
I find it puzzling that atheists like OP are stating that we did not exist; why can't they just ask the question "where did we come from?" like the rest of us? 

Is there a law that says everything has to come from somewhere?