Why I'm an atheist

[Moloch]

Why u dont believe god is exist?
I believe god, and it make my life peace

As my magic 8-ball would say...

The signs point to no

[1714474955]

1714474955

[ObscureBean]

When you boil it down, religion and science are one and the same thing, just different schools of thought stemming from the same source. They both start with awareness. Awareness unavoidably leads to belief, there is no other path. Becoming aware of eternity is crushing, to keep from being overwhelmed by its sheer awesomeness, a belief system is crucial. It doesn't matter what that belief is whether hard facts/experiences or a supreme being or anything else. The two are inseparable, you cannot be aware and not believe in anything. The reverse is equally true.

[BADecker]

When you boil it down, religion and science are one and the same thing, just different schools of thought stemming from the same source. They both start with awareness. Awareness unavoidably leads to belief, there is no other path. Becoming aware of eternity is crushing, to keep from being overwhelmed by its sheer awesomeness, a belief system is crucial. It doesn't matter what that belief is whether hard facts/experiences or a supreme being or anything else. The two are inseparable, you cannot be aware and not believe in anything. The reverse is equally true.

While this is in general true, it is much more favorable to believe in something that is truth. For example, the child's ball bounces into the street. The child goes after the ball. The child believes that there aren't any cars coming. We hope the child believes the truth, even if he doesn't know the truth.

[BADecker]

Colloidal silver is actually a prophylactic against argyria, instead of a cause as some would have you believe.

Ionic silver will try to plate out on any silver particles it finds. Since there will be colloidal silver which already passed into the blood, there will be lots of particles for it to plate out on. So in short order the silver in the silver chloride plates out onto the colloidal particles already there, and they grow by a small amount. This is insufficient to cause them to get caught up into tissues, and they eventually get removed by the kidneys.

So, as it turns out, colloidal silver is actually a prophylactic against argyria, instead of a cause as some would have you believe.

Please do not take medical advice from an idiot on the internet

Please either find ONE person who prepared CS properly and became blue (permanently), OR stay on topic...

1) The guy I posted a picture of... I already posted his name and picture above... he applied CS to his face and it turned blue... permanently
2) There is no "proper way to prepare CS"... CS isn't really even a thing... it's simply small particles of silver floating in water (aka snake oil)
3) Edgar Cayce did not advise people to drink CS... he sold a machine which would ionize the particles directly into your bloodstream
4) The layman would not know the difference between ionized particles or non-ionized... I doubt you even understand the difference, so quit giving medical advice to people

This is not the topic... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... please stop spreading harmful medical advice

What percentage of people who swim in the ocean get bitten or killed by sharks? Do they all? No, of course not.

You and your BS all the time.

[ObscureBean]

When you boil it down, religion and science are one and the same thing, just different schools of thought stemming from the same source. They both start with awareness. Awareness unavoidably leads to belief, there is no other path. Becoming aware of eternity is crushing, to keep from being overwhelmed by its sheer awesomeness, a belief system is crucial. It doesn't matter what that belief is whether hard facts/experiences or a supreme being or anything else. The two are inseparable, you cannot be aware and not believe in anything. The reverse is equally true.

While this is in general true, it is much more favorable to believe in something that is truth. For example, the child's ball bounces into the street. The child goes after the ball. The child believes that there aren't any cars coming. We hope the child believes the truth, even if he doesn't know the truth.

Death is as natural as birth/life, there is no need to hope or wish it away. The reason why humans try to avoid death is again because eternity is a scary thing if you face it while not being complete. Death is only natural and non-scary when you have closure in all aspects of your life at the time of your passing. Closure is natural and automatic in the animal realm. Unfortunately, this is not the case for humans.
Living in society means every human has a true self and a purported self. The purported self is driven by reason and will overrule and overwhelm the true self 100% of the time. The deeper the grip of the purported self, the more unresolved loose ends remain in one's life. This is because the purported self prioritizes existence in society over existence as a living being.

People basically spend their lives embroiled in the superficial webs of society while constantly keeping their true selves in check. It's a little like spending your whole life having fun and not doing any homework assigned to your true self. And if death is the final exam, I'm sure you can imagine why most would want to postpone it for as long as they can  

[BADecker]

When you boil it down, religion and science are one and the same thing, just different schools of thought stemming from the same source. They both start with awareness. Awareness unavoidably leads to belief, there is no other path. Becoming aware of eternity is crushing, to keep from being overwhelmed by its sheer awesomeness, a belief system is crucial. It doesn't matter what that belief is whether hard facts/experiences or a supreme being or anything else. The two are inseparable, you cannot be aware and not believe in anything. The reverse is equally true.

While this is in general true, it is much more favorable to believe in something that is truth. For example, the child's ball bounces into the street. The child goes after the ball. The child believes that there aren't any cars coming. We hope the child believes the truth, even if he doesn't know the truth.

Death is as natural as birth/life, there is no need to hope or wish it away. The reason why humans try to avoid death is again because eternity is a scary thing if you face it while not being complete. Death is only natural and non-scary when you have closure in all aspects of your life at the time of your passing. Closure is natural and automatic in the animal realm. Unfortunately, this is not the case for humans.
Living in society means every human has a true self and a purported self. The purported self is driven by reason and will overrule and overwhelm the true self 100% of the time. The deeper the grip of the purported self, the more unresolved loose ends remain in one's life. This is because the purported self prioritizes existence in society over existence as a living being.

People basically spend their lives embroiled in the superficial webs of society while constantly keeping their true selves in check. It's a little like spending your whole life having fun and not doing any homework assigned to your true self. And if death is the final exam, I'm sure you can imagine why most would want to postpone it for as long as they can  

All individuals are individual "societies" of many parts.   

[Trading]

The demographics of atheism and religiosity have some puzzling issues.

The differences between Europe and the US, countries with similar economic development are striking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#United_States

There seems to be a trend on the United States for an increase of non-religious people, but religiosity on the United States is way over the one on Europe.

There are more than one explanation:

1) State religions on Europe reduced competition and allowed some dominant churches to keep defending absurd positions.

2) There was on European eastern countries a state policy against religion under communism (still today, eastern Germany is the most atheist region on the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Germany).

But many of European churches' ideas are not more crazy than the American ones. And some of the top atheist countries (like the Scandinavians) never had any state police against religion.

So, the reasons are not obvious.

Anyway, the numbers are not completely favorable to atheism. Basically, atheist have much lower birth rates than religious people.

Some of the reasons for this low birth rate are cultural. Statistics say that atheist have higher levels of education (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/05/7-facts-about-atheists/). Well, around the world, educated people seem to be actively investing on their own extinction.

Some other are economical. Atheism is predominant on developed countries, where there are (were?) strong social security systems. Having kids is a bad deal, because they are expensive (no more child work) and they aren't needed to assure patrimonial security on old age.

Of course, since social security is going to explode because of these low birth rates and longer life expectation, this will change soon.

Some other reasons are religious: religious people do take seriously the command to multiply themselves.

[BADecker]

The demographics of atheism and religiosity have some puzzling issues.

The differences between Europe and the US, countries with similar economic development are striking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#United_States

There seems to be a trend on the United States for an increase of non-religious people, but religiosity on the United States is way over the one on Europe.

There is more than one explanation:

1) State religions on Europe reduced competition and allowed some dominant churches to keep defending absurd positions.

2) There was on European eastern countries a state police against religion under communism (still today, eastern Germany is the most atheist region on the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Germany).

But many of European churches' ideas are not more crazy than the American ones. And some of the top atheist countries (like the Scandinavians) never had any state police against religion.

So, the reasons are not obvious.

Anyway, the numbers are not completely favorable to atheism. Basically, atheist have much lower birth rates than religious people.

Some of the reasons for this low birth rate are cultural. Statistics say that atheist have higher levels of education (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/05/7-facts-about-atheists/). Well, around the world, educated people seem to be actively investing on their own extinction.

Some other are economical. Atheism is predominant on developed countries, where there are (were?) strong social security systems. Having kids is a bad deal, because they are expensive (no more child work) and they aren't needed to assure patrimonial security on old age.

Of course, since social security is going to explode because of these low birth rates and longer life expectation, this will change soon.

Some other reasons are religious: religious people do take seriously the command to multiply themselves.

That's because Europe is a lot older than America. There was a time when Europe was young and carefree. Then God slapped them for their disobedience; they became somewhat obedient again. America is simply on her way towards being slapped.

[qwik2learn]

When you boil it down, religion and science are one and the same thing, just different schools of thought stemming from the same source. They both start with awareness. Awareness unavoidably leads to belief, there is no other path. Becoming aware of eternity is crushing, to keep from being overwhelmed by its sheer awesomeness, a belief system is crucial. It doesn't matter what that belief is whether hard facts/experiences or a supreme being or anything else. The two are inseparable, you cannot be aware and not believe in anything. The reverse is equally true.

While this is in general true, it is much more favorable to believe in something that is truth. For example, the child's ball bounces into the street. The child goes after the ball. The child believes that there aren't any cars coming. We hope the child believes the truth, even if he doesn't know the truth.

Death is as natural as birth/life, there is no need to hope or wish it away. The reason why humans try to avoid death is again because eternity is a scary thing if you face it while not being complete. Death is only natural and non-scary when you have closure in all aspects of your life at the time of your passing. Closure is natural and automatic in the animal realm. Unfortunately, this is not the case for humans.
Living in society means every human has a true self and a purported self. The purported self is driven by reason and will overrule and overwhelm the true self 100% of the time. The deeper the grip of the purported self, the more unresolved loose ends remain in one's life. This is because the purported self prioritizes existence in society over existence as a living being.

People basically spend their lives embroiled in the superficial webs of society while constantly keeping their true selves in check. It's a little like spending your whole life having fun and not doing any homework assigned to your true self. And if death is the final exam, I'm sure you can imagine why most would want to postpone it for as long as they can  

Sir, what is the true self? How can I identify my true self?

[Moloch]

Sir, what is the true self? How can I identify my true self?

Shan Yu said, "Live with a man 40 years. Share his house, his meals. Speak on every subject. Then tie him up, and hold him over the volcano's edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man."

[qwik2learn]

Sir, what is the true self? How can I identify my true self?

Shan Yu said, "Live with a man 40 years. Share his house, his meals. Speak on every subject. Then tie him up, and hold him over the volcano's edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man."

That sounds very extreme. I am sure it is from Zen Buddhism. Could you tell me this: How can you know that Zen Buddhism is not an extreme philosophy? I am inclined to doubt the idea that GOD wants man to use his mind in order to NOT think. If the "purported self" is the one which is always rational then the true self can never be in harmony with the rational truth that man can understand, so I would call it a false self.

[qwik2learn]

Anyway, the numbers are not completely favorable to atheism.

Neither does the evidence favor atheism:

Let's forget about any "soul" for the reasons stated here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1424793.0

You are saying that awareness comes from "eternal nothing", but there is no evidence to suggest this; you say that "everything" seems to "force [you] to conclude" that we came from "eternal nothing", but when I press you on the details you are suddenly silent. In all reality, everything is suggesting to you that consciousness existed before and will continue to exist.

"It is more elegant and far easier to accept as a working hypothesis that sentience exists as a potential at the source of creation, and the strongest evidence has already been put on the table: Everything to be observed in the universe implies consciousness."

OP believed that it would be impossible to know of awareness after death, but he decided to stop responding to me as soon as we started discussing anoxia, brain function, and the timeline of awareness (see below). There is also a lot of supporting evidence from many different classes of phenomena that refutes the idea that awareness ends at death.

Even skeptic Chris French admitted that validating the formation of perception and memory during such a time-frame would suggest that consciousness is not being generated by the brain. Take a close look at the timeline! If one is "rational," then in common parlance this means that one can think clearly and is capable of intelligently assessing new ideas when presented.

Let's forget about any "soul" for the reasons stated here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1424793.0

How convenient for you that your reasons do not need to be backed up with evidence, and that the evidence that suggests a soul does not need to be addressed at all!

I STILL need you to explain to me how you will meet your burden of proof for showing that awareness comes from 'eternal nothing' because Currently, your explanation is not in accord with medical evidence about the timeline of awareness during cardiac arrest. The patient from the AWARE study had a true perception of a sound during a flat EEG (indicating an absence of brain activity), so his experience (a so-called "death experience") cannot be dismissed as hallucinations.

It's time for OP to admit that I have given a satisfactory counterexample to his unsupported idea that awareness ends at death:

Your statement that the brain can't have any activity once the oxygen flow stops is false. Brain activity measurable on a EGG only disappears after 20-40 seconds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death). This time is enough to leave memories of hallucinations. Actually, the hallucinations probably start before the complete stop of the supply of oxygen. And in that situation, 40 seconds of hallucinations might seem minutes to the near death individual.

This would not explain cases of longer duration, for example the patient in AWARE had perceptions which lasted at least 2 minutes and were verified by medical staff.

My first assertion is that simple mechanism cannot yield the brain, that the brain is actually a computing machine connected to a spirit.
My second assertion is regarding anomalous perception that was documented in a medical setting (perception/awareness during a period when the brain is known to be non-functional).
These points demolish OP's assertion that the brain came from "eternal nothing". In fact, these points of mine are part of a scientific consensus:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/eminent_researchers

For example, Louis Pasteur strongly stated his agreement with these assertions (quote omitted).

"Whatever sense we make of this world... depends not on the evidence, but on what we choose, deliberately and consciously to conclude from that evidence… What we choose to embrace, to be responsive to, is the purest reflection of who we are and what we love." Accordingly, we can see that even in the growing numbers of non-religious people in the US, many are choosing NOT to go with atheism because it poses a clear health risk; fully 30% of the share identifying as “nothing in particular” are also affirming that religion is either “very” or “somewhat” important to them. So 30% of those who don't have a religion, still have a somewhat serious faith (not serious doubt).
Also, 53% of those raised as religiously unaffiliated still identify as “nones” in adulthood. That means that the odds of maintaining your religious unaffiliation (and therefore your serious doubts) is about 50:50, which is not impressive.
 "A devout life is... mostly a matter of using insights into truth in building-up good habits; and this can be influenced by our will. A devout life enables one to build these habits and most importantly successfully pass them on to our children."
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1373864.0

[ZOOM007]

I just want to say that you are only denying the existence of God. How can you came up with the idea of God. Since you know Him, He exists. Another is that maybe it is your personal experience that make yourself distance from God. Try to observe in your surroundings. Can't you see how beautiful His creation? Well I respect your view but I am not convinced with it.

[Moloch]

Can't you see how beautiful His creation?

How can you see the beauty without seeing the ugly too?

Did your all-loving god create HIV, cancer, smallpox, floods, drought, malaria, flesh-eating bacteria, leukemia, and poisonous snakes (to name a few)?

[ObscureBean]

Sir, what is the true self? How can I identify my true self?

Simple. Your true self is the physical body you were born with. Without any definitions. Neither fat nor beautiful. Not white nor red. Just an instance of life/existence.
Your purported self is your physical body equipped with all of the definitions you have acquired throughout your life. It's like wearing a super heavy armor on top of your relatively light true self.

Your purported self is like an adapter plug that allows you to fit in with others. It generates a common ground that is universally recognized within the human world.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with spending time grooming your purported self but because the purported self is only a layer on top of the true self, the issues it faces/tackles/resolves are largely superficial. Hence the unease when contemplating death. Death is the termination of your true self first and foremost.

[BADecker]

Can't you see how beautiful His creation?

How can you see the beauty without seeing the ugly too?

Did your all-loving god create HIV, cancer, smallpox, floods, drought, malaria, flesh-eating bacteria, leukemia, and poisonous snakes (to name a few)?

A reasonably powerful enemy did this.

God is correcting it with the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Jesus work on the cross did two things:
1. It kept this universe from being destroyed for a time, so that we would have time to live;
2. It opened the option for those who accept salvation to go to the New Place.

Since everything operates on principle, you need to believe in the salvation to get to the New Place.

[Moloch]

Can't you see how beautiful His creation?

How can you see the beauty without seeing the ugly too?

Did your all-loving god create HIV, cancer, smallpox, floods, drought, malaria, flesh-eating bacteria, leukemia, and poisonous snakes (to name a few)?

A reasonably powerful enemy did this.

So... you're saying... it went more like this?

High Stakes Intelligent Designing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_G9awnDCmg

and this?

The King of Kings' Speech [Bible slavery]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDgCnoCMf9k

[BADecker]

Can't you see how beautiful His creation?

How can you see the beauty without seeing the ugly too?

Did your all-loving god create HIV, cancer, smallpox, floods, drought, malaria, flesh-eating bacteria, leukemia, and poisonous snakes (to name a few)?

A reasonably powerful enemy did this.

So... you're saying... it went more like this?

High Stakes Intelligent Designing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_G9awnDCmg

and this?

The King of Kings' Speech [Bible slavery]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDgCnoCMf9k

It went like this:

All power is God's.

God gave power and freedom to some angels, for His and their joy and glory.

Satan, one of the angels, was given great authority for caring for people.

Satan, in his freedom, turned evil and went against God and man.

Man was tricked by Satan into becoming evil.

God prepared a plan to root evil out of everything.

This plan included:
-    New Heavens and New Earth;
-    Destruction for the Old (this one);
-    The right to freely be destroyed with the Old or join Him in the New.

Satan and many of the angels decided to buck God's plan, have lost in their bucking effort, and will be destroyed with the old.

The offering still stands for mankind.

The interesting thing is that Satan and his demons are now locked in to their position. They asked for it this way, and God gave it to them.

Most living people who do not understand God are not locked in to their future position. Those who are saved virtually are locked in to the New. A few of the knowledgeable unsaved are locked in to the Old and destruction. How about you? Are you so completely adamant in your direction against God that you can never be changed? Or is there still some slight hope for you.

Change, before you are locked into your way of destruction along with this Old Universe.

[Foxpup]

Can't you see how beautiful His creation?

How can you see the beauty without seeing the ugly too?

Did your all-loving god create HIV, cancer, smallpox, floods, drought, malaria, flesh-eating bacteria, leukemia, and poisonous snakes (to name a few)?

A reasonably powerful enemy did this.

Wrong.

I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the LORD do all these things.

[BADecker]

Can't you see how beautiful His creation?

How can you see the beauty without seeing the ugly too?

Did your all-loving god create HIV, cancer, smallpox, floods, drought, malaria, flesh-eating bacteria, leukemia, and poisonous snakes (to name a few)?

A reasonably powerful enemy did this.

Wrong.

I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the LORD do all these things.

The father is sitting on the armchair. On the end table next to the armchair is his drink in a glass. His little 3-y-o daughter is sitting on his lap.

Have you ever watched a child play with the hands of a parent? The little girl was playing, lovingly, with her father's hand. She would turn the hand this way and that. She would bend the wrist. She would open and close the hand finger by finger.

Finally, in her play, she lifted her father's hand and arm, and moved it so that his hand was on the end table. She opened her father's hand, and wrapped his fingers around the glass that held her father's drink. Then, she lifted his hand and arm, and twisted his wrist. The glass tipped, and the drink went all over the floor.

Now, tell me. Who dumped the drink, dad or his daughter? Do you think that the little girl had any kind of strength and control to actually mover her father's hand the way she did? And her father certainly would not have intentionally dumped the drink if he had been sitting there alone, or if his daughter had not done the things she did.

God is all powerful. But, he has given us certain control and freedom, while maintaining His power to Himself. In other words, we can do nothing at all, except that God is there exerting Himself in ways that make us feel like we did it.

This whole universe operation is far greater than we think or imagine. The enemy, the Devil, Satan, is also like the little girl in that his entire ability comes from God. God, for His pleasure in giving us freedom, has allowed us and Satan to move his hands and fingers at certain times and in certain ways.

It doesn't affect God in the least how we use our freedom... except that He is emotionally distraught when we hurt ourselves. But, because He has set our freedom in place, through using some of His power to enact it (our freedom), God let's us hurt ourselves if we want. And He lets Satan hurt us to some extent, although if you look in the beginning of Job, you will see that God has limits even on Satan.

In the little story, above, the father has the ability to clean up the mess his daughter made (but, mother probably did it while disdaining the foolishness of the game her husband was playing with their daughter). In similar ability, God has the strength to clean up the mess that we and Satan made of our lives. But, this is where the similarities between the above story and the reality of life end.

In reality, God does things in the wisest way. We are allowed our freedom. God will clean up the mess at the end, in the judgment. The difference in reality is that those people who truly forsake God will be destroyed along with Satan (who has set himself entirely against God).

God maintains control, maintains His love without turning, maintains justice even though it will only be clearly exercised in the judgment, maintains a place appropriate for us His faithful followers in Heaven, maintains wisdom in the best way in how He does things.

There is a whole lot more to the operation of this life than is apparent on the outside.