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Author Topic: Why I'm an atheist  (Read 88812 times)
nururochac
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July 19, 2016, 04:41:16 PM
 #521

I just want to say that you are only denying the existence of God. How can you came up with the idea of God. Since you know Him, He exists. Another is that maybe it is your personal experience that make yourself distance from God. Try to observe in your surroundings. Can't you see how beautiful His creation? Well I respect your view but I am not convinced with it.

What you say is not evidence of anything. You can say: "I just want to say that you are only denying the existence of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. How can you came up with the idea of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Since you know Him, He exists. Another is that maybe it is your personal experience that make yourself distance from The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Try to observe in your surroundings. Can't you see how beautiful His creation? Well I respect your view but I am not convinced with it."

Does that prove that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is real? No.

(obviously we all know that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is real. Otherwise, how do you explain that planets are round just like meatballs?)
Stop it mate, they may think you sounds crazy because it's obviously not real. Oh wait, I mean Jesus not FSM.  Grin
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July 19, 2016, 04:44:31 PM
 #522

I just want to say that you are only denying the existence of God. How can you came up with the idea of God. Since you know Him, He exists. Another is that maybe it is your personal experience that make yourself distance from God. Try to observe in your surroundings. Can't you see how beautiful His creation? Well I respect your view but I am not convinced with it.

What you say is not evidence of anything. You can say: "I just want to say that you are only denying the existence of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. How can you came up with the idea of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Since you know Him, He exists. Another is that maybe it is your personal experience that make yourself distance from The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Try to observe in your surroundings. Can't you see how beautiful His creation? Well I respect your view but I am not convinced with it."

Does that prove that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is real? No.

(obviously we all know that The Flying Spaghetti Monster is real. Otherwise, how do you explain that planets are round just like meatballs?)
Stop it mate, they may think you sounds crazy because it's obviously not real. Oh wait, I mean Jesus not FSM.  Grin

When you study the Bible record, the nation of ancient Israel, how the Bible was put together, and the many things the Bible talks about, you will see that the Bible is truth.

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Moloch
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July 19, 2016, 09:10:43 PM
 #523

Ken Ham, owner of the "creation museum" and noah's ark replica both featuring dinosaurs...

Claims that Pokemon Go is evidence for creationism (sounds like BADlogic)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/07/19/ken-ham-pokemon-go-is-evidence-of-creationism/
virtualx
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July 21, 2016, 11:01:54 AM
 #524

When you study the Bible record, the nation of ancient Israel, how the Bible was put together, and the many things the Bible talks about, you will see that the Bible is truth.
Did you visit Israel yourself or only study acient Israel online and library?  Smiley

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July 21, 2016, 11:59:54 AM
 #525

When you study the Bible record, the nation of ancient Israel, how the Bible was put together, and the many things the Bible talks about, you will see that the Bible is truth.
Did you visit Israel yourself or only study acient Israel online and library?  Smiley
I watched an documentary Zeitgeist that said that most of the things in bible are summed up from the different religions of the ancient civilization. It seemed very relevant. Religion was manipulated to control the common people under the same law.
nururochac
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July 21, 2016, 12:53:01 PM
 #526

When you study the Bible record, the nation of ancient Israel, how the Bible was put together, and the many things the Bible talks about, you will see that the Bible is truth.
Did you visit Israel yourself or only study acient Israel online and library?  Smiley
Probably he just read it online or maybe with some books on the library under fictional books section and just alledgedly thinking that it was automatically true. He didn't even support his argument with something that's seem to be a viable reason.
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July 21, 2016, 01:14:58 PM
 #527

When you study the Bible record, the nation of ancient Israel, how the Bible was put together, and the many things the Bible talks about, you will see that the Bible is truth.
Did you visit Israel yourself or only study acient Israel online and library?  Smiley
Probably he just read it online or maybe with some books on the library under fictional books section and just alledgedly thinking that it was automatically true. He didn't even support his argument with something that's seem to be a viable reason.

The earth and universe being only a little over 6,000 years old, and a universe in entropy as well, tells us that the ancients from the time before Noah and shortly after, had far greater abilities to think than we do. Knowledge about God and the creation was available to them, in writings and from their ancestors, even though much of it wasn't believed.

Knowledge about God abounded among people, even though it wasn't believed correctly. There was demon influence that twisted what the people thought they knew as history. The demons knew general basics of the plan of God for salvation of people. They twisted it, and implanted it in various religions that they helped wicked people to create. They showed the future (although imperfectly) because they knew much of what God had in mind.

All this is why there is partial Bible knowledge found in other ancient religions. Moses, at the time he was prince of Egypt, learned about this, and sorted it all out. God directed him to write the truth down in the first 5 books of the Bible, so that people would have a record of the truth.

----------

A note here: Plants like marijuana, but others that are a lot stronger, influenced the ancient peoples to contact demons. Then the demons they contacted influenced them to turn from the understanding about God and the truth. That's what demons do.

Stay away from hallucinogenic drugs. Because of entropy, your mind isn't strong enough to resist the demons as much as the ancients were able. You will only be dragged away from God, towards damnation by them (the demons) if you weaken the natural resistance of your mind by the use of drugs.

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July 21, 2016, 02:30:24 PM
 #528

Stephen Hawking says that perhaps multiple universes 'just are'; just came into being from nothing.

"The Brain with David Eagleman" episode 6 suggests that consciousness can perhaps be transferred.

My stance is that;

Only the absolute source of all existence can successfully claim to be "God". Hosea 8:5-6

For anything/one to claim to be "God" He must not have been created, and nothing must be above Him.
The Father of all existence, actively maintaining all existence, if He ends, all existence also ends.

IF this kind of ever existing "God" does not
1. allow complete free will to everything He creates
2. allow Himself to be subject to the same things His creatures are subject to
THEN He can not claim to be Righteous and Holy.


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July 21, 2016, 04:13:50 PM
Last edit: July 21, 2016, 04:25:15 PM by Moloch
 #529




*cough* BADlogic *cough*
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July 21, 2016, 07:14:28 PM
 #530

Stephen Hawking says that perhaps multiple universes 'just are'; just came into being from nothing.

"The Brain with David Eagleman" episode 6 suggests that consciousness can perhaps be transferred.

My stance is that;

Only the absolute source of all existence can successfully claim to be "God". Hosea 8:5-6

For anything/one to claim to be "God" He must not have been created, and nothing must be above Him.
The Father of all existence, actively maintaining all existence, if He ends, all existence also ends.

IF this kind of ever existing "God" does not
1. allow complete free will to everything He creates
2. allow Himself to be subject to the same things His creatures are subject to
THEN He can not claim to be Righteous and Holy.




Perhaps we would like it to be that way. But a microbe knows a lot more about man than man knows about God.

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CroSany
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July 21, 2016, 07:37:42 PM
 #531

This is reason why I am atheist .

1) God is a human creation.

   All the hundreds of religions/sects and their multiple absolute contradictions seem to be plenty evidence that all gods are human creations.

   The same conclusion can be based on the known influences of ancient myths and religions on the current main religions [the flood, the virgin birth, the resurrection after 3 days, Christmas day, Sunday (day of the Sun, the roman god Sol Invictus) as the holyday and not the Sabbath, etc.].

   Gods are just one of the illusions mankind uses in order to be able to deal with the conscience of the inevitability of death. Humans created a god and an afterlife mainly because they feel anguish about dying.

   Even in the religions that claim to worship the same god, the contradictions are overwhelming.

   As you know, both Christians and Muslims say they worship the Torah's god, Yahweh. Islam says Jesus was an important prophet, but not the son of god. And Christians simple reject that Muhammad was a prophet. But the Qur'an says that his god is the god that sent Abraham, Moses and Jesus.

   But Yahweh initially was just a god in the middle of others. Most Jews, even during David times (about 1000 BC) and after, kept praying to other gods of the Canaanites (Semitic people comprising the Phoenicians, the Jews and some other peoples of the Levant).

   There is controversy, but Yahweh has been identified with EL, the supreme god of the Canaanites, that had one or two wives and an extensive number of sons (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)#Hebrew_Bible). Or, initially, with one of his sons: sometimes, Baal (the confusion was easy, because Baal means Lord; clearly, later, the Torah fights this identification, by ridiculing Baal), sometimes Hadad, sometimes a different son.

   In some of the Jewish holy books, we can still find several traces of this evolution, with references to a council of the gods presided by EL/Yahweh (Psalm 82:1 and 6; 1 Kings 22:19) or to different gods (Deuteronomy 32:8–9) (see, a summary in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council#Hebrew).

   Well, the Greeks were influenced by the Phoenicians and copied their gods, with different names. El was Uranus, the father of all gods (or sometimes Cronus, since some mythology says El was not the original god, but rather Elioun), that was deposed by his son, Cronus. Cronus was deposed by Zeus. The Romans used the same Gods (Caelus as Uranus; Saturn as Cronus and Jupiter as Zeus).

   So, are the believers on the three main religions praying to Uranus (Caelus) or even to Cronus (Saturn)?

   But, even if they are considered the same god, just compare the vengeful and jealous god of the Torah with the loving and forgiven god invented by Jesus.

   The contradictions are so big between them that some scholars (like Marcion of Sinope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism) and christian sects (like the Gnostics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#Dualism_and_monism) even defended that Yahweh, the Torah's god, was a different god or even the devil.

   Some of the most fracturing religious issues, like the so-called divine nature of Jesus, or its degree, divided drastically Christians and were finally settled by bishops on majority voting, under pressure from Constantine to reach an agreement.

   If Constantine, as roman emperor, was considered divine, how could Jesus be less than him? Of course, we can't find any evidence on the Gospels for that (not even on John's Gospel), but they couldn't care less for that detail.

   Most Christian churches defend the Trinity, that the father, the son (Jesus) and the holy ghost are not exactly one and the same, but are part of god. But these churches argue that this is perfectly compatible with a monotheism.

   Basically, Jesus on the Olive Garden and on the Cross wasn't exactly talking with him self, but something similar (if he was already complaining on the Garden, I imagine the family discussion when he arrived "home").

   Ancient Greeks could argue that they also had a father, Uranus/Cronus/Zeus, and their sons and parents, all part of a divine family. That the difference was of grade, and not nature, and so that they too were basically monotheists in this flexible sense, because they too had a supreme god, he just had a bigger family.

   But what all these contradictions, but also influences and slow evolution, point out is that gods are a human creation.

   With all these different gods and interpretations, are all the believers on different religions or sects lying or mistaken, but you?
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July 23, 2016, 05:49:09 PM
 #532

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July 24, 2016, 01:53:10 AM
 #533



Smart parents taught this kid to swim, and he doesn't want out of the pool.

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July 24, 2016, 01:54:55 AM
 #534

This is reason why I am atheist .

1) God is a human creation.

<>

Well, science (the thing that proves God exists) is a human creation, as well, right?

Cool

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July 25, 2016, 03:37:38 AM
 #535

Some of my friends are atheists, some aren't, i gues you'll find fanatics in both ways, and great people in both ways also, but as you meet more and more, you find out it isn't just both ways, everyone's a whole world, getting to know each other is so cool, and as you said, fanatism ruins your point of view.
Fanatics use "god" as an excuse to do things, and even do bad things thinking that "their god will forgive them, so everything is okay as long as they do prayers or what their religious says"
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July 28, 2016, 08:18:12 PM
Last edit: July 28, 2016, 08:54:44 PM by Trading
 #536

The difference of an (real) atheist from a believer is that we have no absolute certainties at all, especially about any god.

We don't say that god doesn't exist, we just say that we have no reasons to believe that he exists. It's the same that we say about vampires or dragons.

The burden of proof is on anyone arguing something positive, like that there is a higher being that created deliberately the Universe.

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July 28, 2016, 08:35:34 PM
 #537

The difference of an (real) atheist from a believer is that we have no absolute certainties at all, especially about any god.

We don't say that god doesn't exist, we just say that we have no reasons to believe that he exists. We say the same about vampires or dragons.

The burden of proof is on anyone arguing something positive, like that there is a higher being that created deliberately the Universe.
Agree, burden of proof lies on that one that presents something, you can't say "please prove that I don't have 1000 btc in my wallet right now" it's so stupid in any argument you put it.
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July 28, 2016, 09:33:43 PM
 #538

The difference of an (real) atheist from a believer is that we have no absolute certainties at all, especially about any god.

An atheist is uncertain only because: None of the suppositions respecting the origin of the Universe are even conceivable in the true sense of the word. We think in relations, therefore by the laws of thought we are
1) prevented from forming a conception of absolute existence,
2) prevented from excluding the consciousness of absolute existence

From the necessity of thinking in relations, it follows that the Relative is itself inconceivable, except as related to a real Non-relative. Unless a real Non-relative or Absolute be postulated, the Relative itself becomes absolute, and so brings the argument to a contradiction.

A "certain" belief is one which persists at all times and under all circumstances. The consciousness of absolute existence is a mental element which exists absolutely. If you don't understand this argument, you are in luck because I have excerpted some key parts of it below and provided a link to the full treatise. Happy thinking.  Wink

the vague consciousness which we retain of the objectively real, is of something which persists absolutely, under all changes of mode, form, or appearance. And the fact that we cannot form even an indefinite notion of the absolutely real, except as the absolutely persistent, implies that persistence is our ultimate test of the real whether as existing under its unknown form or under the form known to us.

Consequently, the result must be the same to us whether that which we perceive be the Unknowable itself, or an effect invariably wrought on us by the Unknowable.

Hence there may be drawn these conclusions: — First, that we have an indefinite consciousness of an absolute reality transcending relations, which is produced by the absolute persistence in us of something which survives all changes of relation. Second, that we have a definite consciousness of relative reality, which unceasingly persists in us under one or other of its forms, and under each form so long as the conditions of presentation are fulfilled; and that the relative reality, being thus continuously persistent in us, is as real to us as would be the absolute reality could it be immediately known. Third, that thought being possible only under relation, the relative reality can be conceived as such only in connexion with an absolute reality; and the connexion between the two being absolutely persistent in our consciousness, is real in the same sense as the terms it unites are real.

Thus then we may resume, with entire confidence, those realistic conceptions which Philosophy at first sight seems to dissipate. Though reality under the forms of our consciousness is but a conditioned effect of the absolute reality, yet this conditioned effect standing in indissoluble relation with its unconditioned cause, and being equally persistent with it so long as the conditions persist, is, to the consciousness supplying those conditions, equally real.

by taking away limits and conditions in successive acts, we form an indefinite notion of general existence. By fusing a series of states of consciousness, from each of which, as it arises, the limitations and conditions are abolished, there is produced a consciousness of something unconditioned. To speak more rigorously: — this consciousness is not the abstract of any one group of thoughts, ideas, or conceptions; but it is the abstract of all thoughts, ideas, or conceptions. That which is common to them all we predicate by the word existence. Dissociated as this becomes from each of its modes by the perpetual change of those modes, it remains as an indefinite consciousness of something constant under all modes — of being apart from its appearances. The distinction we feel between specialized existences and general existence, is the distinction between that which is changeable in us and that which is unchangeable. The contrast between the Absolute and the Relative in our minds, is really the contrast between that mental element which exists absolutely, and those which exist relatively.

So that this ultimate mental element is at once necessarily indefinite and necessarily indestructible. Our consciousness of the unconditioned being literally the unconditioned consciousness, or raw material of thought to which in thinking we give definite forms, it follows that an ever-present sense of real existence is the basis of our intelligence. As we can in successive mental acts get rid of all particular conditions and replace them by others, but cannot get rid of that undifferentiated substance of consciousness which is conditioned anew in every thought, there ever remains with us a sense of that which exists persistently and independently of conditions. While by the laws of thought we are prevented from forming a conception of absolute existence; we are by the laws of thought prevented from excluding the consciousness of absolute existence: this consciousness being, as we here see, the obverse of self-consciousness. And since the measure of relative validity among our beliefs, is the degree of their persistence in opposition to the efforts made to change them, it follows that this which persists at all times, under all circumstances, has the highest validity of any.

The points in this somewhat too elaborate argument are these: In the very assertion that all knowledge, properly so called, is Relative, there is involved the assertion that there exists a Non-relative. In each step of the argument by which this doctrine is established, the same assumption is made. From the necessity of thinking in relations, it follows that the Relative is itself inconceivable, except as related to a real Non-relative. Unless a real Non-relative or Absolute be postulated, the Relative itself becomes absolute, and so brings the argument to a contradiction. And on watching our thoughts we have seen how impossible it is to get rid of the consciousness of an Actuality lying behind Appearances; and how from this impossibility, results our indestructible belief in that Actuality.
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July 28, 2016, 10:19:50 PM
 #539

An atheist is uncertain only because: By the relativity of our thought we are eternally debarred from knowing or conceiving Absolute Being;

yet this very relativity of our thought, necessitates that vague consciousness of Absolute Being which no mental effort can suppress.

there ever remains with us a sense of that which exists persistently and independently of conditions, and this belief which persists at all times, under all circumstances, has the highest validity of any belief.
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July 28, 2016, 10:33:33 PM
 #540

Give me your BTC, address, I will tip you! Never saw a more decent post in my entire life.
Here are my views:
1. Those who believe a teacher blindly just for the sake of respect can never dream to reach out to a new discovery.
2. We are blind followers of religion since our parents enforce its importance from childhood.
3. Religion creates bias among nations and the work of our ancestors is what we have today in front of our eyes
4. Challenging the preaching of a priest will lead to mass murder and still, those who want an answer will back down.
5. It is my life! I define my destiny, not a priest! Fuck them!

 
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