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[pixelpowered]

Phildo

What is there to disagree about? They said the first 2000 blocks would be Proof of Work with no reward. Block 1296 is one of many that has a 23 coin Proof of Stake reward. Is that an honest mistake? Was the first statement a lie? It's not an opinion it's a fact. Now, an opinion would be whether or not that's a big deal, and it may not be a b6ig deal, but it's still an issue. Your only hope for success is that they learned from the mistakes of paycoin, yet here we have the actual results not matching the promises that were given out before things started, and extra coins going into the hands of unknown people before everyone else gets a chance to get/stake any. Does that not sound familiar to you? are you really not worried about any of that?

Don't know the answer to this... don't think it's a mistake though. When you say 23 coin POS where are you getting the info from. I didn't think a block explorer was available yet.

If you had to guess, how many coins in total do you think were POS generated before block 2000. If I had to hazard a guess the POS coins were for testing, possibly to fund the electron element of a staker payout or to go into a bounty pot..... but like I said this is just a guess

If it's a real concern to you then you should visit slack and ask the question,

I'm not worried by this, I've been dealing with them for about a year with no problems. If you think there is a 1%+ chance of a scam then don't invest

BTW. Those images suchmoon is posting are taken from the Ionomy platform https://ionomy.com/. You'll need to sign up then you'll get access to those screens

I am not signing up for slack. I have barely even looked into this thing and seen enough red flags to stay away. They started this thread here, they're going to have to deal with the repercussions. The people inside the slack are either in on it or too brainwashed to see the light, just like the people in hasthalk and paycointalk and lendcointalk and all the other blablatalks where various stages of this saga have taken place. All I can do is point out the glaringly obvious problems that I can see from here, without even really trying, in hopes to keep other people out of the mess.

Here is block 1236
https://ionchain.com/block/73ce123f7b1fa011a1b4fb320fc7d10bad89dd0777e6a3efe5fe5c1b53b31311

Here is a transaction in that block that consists of nothing but a POS reward

https://ionchain.com/tx/8ba71247b921334e292050d72c1b508d5618c2c7866687361123fd00538bebfa

Now, the amount of coins generated via the POS rewards is trivial compared to the premine, but it still stands out as an issue to me. They said blocks 1-2000 would be POW. This is obviously not a true statement. There are two reasons that statement could be true. either they lied about 1-2000 being POW or there was a mistake in the code. You said you don't think it was a mistake, then it was a lie. Why lie about such a meaningless amount of coins? How many coins do they need for staking rewards? They had 2.5 million set aside at the start, plus all the coins allocated to the ICO that no one bought.

I am not signing up for slack because this is not really a major concern or me. I saw enough red flags from the original post in this thread to stop me from being invested. that isn't going to stop me from following along and asking the questions that I think would be important as we go along. If you have no problem with a coin that literally started with a lie/mistake (I would consider all the blocks pre-distribution of ICO coins the start) good for you, but I'm still going to point out the flaws that I see. Feel free to ignore them, but while you are sailing away on the glorious ship IONia keep your eye out for icebergs, because I feel like there will be a lot of them out there.

Hey Phildo

I too have been doing some digging as what you said didn't sit right, I can confirm

0 - 2000 blocks had POS & POW with no reward got this info asking around slack, this is what the team said

POW phase was to make sure they had enough time to distribute mature coins, to make sure the network could stand on it on its own via POS That was the objective nothing else, again got this asking around slack

You said -- They said blocks 1-2000 would be POW. This is obviously not a true statement.......... I searched but can't find where they said that so unless you can prove it different this is another piece of misinformation designed to discredit the team

Here is block 1236
https://ionchain.com/block/73ce123f7b1fa011a1b4fb320fc7d10bad89dd0777e6a3efe5fe5c1b53b31311

Here is a transaction in that block that consists of nothing but a POS reward
https://ionchain.com/tx/8ba71247b921334e292050d72c1b508d5618c2c7866687361123fd00538bebfa

This sync's up with what they said NO POW reward and a small POS reward 23 ion or $5.75 which is for all to see

I'm not going to go and find anything, if I was wrong about that one, I was wrong about that one, there are still a million other red flags. I, and others, remember reading that POS would start at block 2000 after the coins were distributed. Even if that is wrong, the coins were not distributed at block 2000, so there were tons o blocks with POS rewards going only to the devs/whoever received the premine.

If that is all made up, I apologize, but I still blame them for not putting all of the relevant information in one place that is easy to find.

See how simple it was to answer questions? Now we can move on to the next issues.

What are the guarantees that the masternodes that pay out the charged staker payouts will generate enough coins to do that?

If these nodes generate too few coins for all the payouts what will be done?

If they generate too many what will be done?

Is there any reason to believe they will be able to accept alternate payment on android devices besides "amazon does?"

@korvas128 I typed '2000' into search in the upper right.
Found two complete references to it, with pics for you.

chain went live about 12:30 CST best i can tell
which is 18:30 GMT i believe
at block 2000 block the wallet goes public
so it’s about 33 hours

Source : ->http://zupimages.net/up/16/20/5c4t.jpg

and...

How do you know for a fact? Its not in the whitepaper its not on the site so its not common public knowledge. Can you please state how you know these facts?

its good they are mining first 2000 blocks good free credits for them or are they going to burn them? Means up to block height 2000 all addresses are theirs thats the great thing about blockchain from this they can't hide with all moves.. we'll know every little amount. But it won't be through them being transparent it'll be the blockchain showing the dirty laundry.

This was posted by huey (Matlack) on slack. Technically the first 2000 blocks should have 0 block reward hardcoded but I wouldn't get my hopes too high for that.

@Phildo - "Is there any reason to believe they will be able to accept alternate payment on android devices besides "amazon does?"

Not in my opinion based on how partnerships go with the bigger players like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, and Google. They'll ask (more like demand) for full control of the coin before they allow them to funnel it through the app store(s). Mind you if any of those companies actually were interested in ION. All of them already use the companies own point/coin system from the user accounts to facilitate it. Second, they'll also look at the background information on Adam and crew. Leading to a big NO.
Then ION might try the game publishers to use the coin. Steam had to reluctantly accept Bitcoin, from my opinion due to the ever growing market of their items being bought outside their exchanges with Bitcoin. Blizzard has and can already build their own virtual gold. After those two big game publishers come to mind... the mid-to-smaller ones won't be taking chances with the ION team and would still most likely develop or use current coins that people trust fully. They have a slim or a more realistic chance to have the coin used in an indie or small group platform, if they get to that stage.

We also might be getting to a point though in blockchain development where even the coins/tokens generated, are already integrated into the game, and will move with the game!
What am I rambling about? Spells of Genesis -> http://www.spellsofgenesis.com/ (trad-able card game built on a blockchain that's slowly been built over the years. Also allows investors to keep specific track of their investment per set expansion.)
Edit: Adding to Minecrafts implementation of Bitcoin into itself. http://bitquest.co/2016/05/19/bitquest-2.html

Okay, so what's left that I can feasibly give constructive development on...
Well the only chance I see for ION is building a poker/gambling app for the coin to generate use and userbase.

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[suchmoon]

Here is some napkin math for the whole masternode/staker thingy.

Stakers that are currently being sold would pay 15% APY (or 17.5% if you have a certain number of atoms), can be "electrified" to 30-35% respectively. I think the XPY converted ones were supposed to pay 25% (50% if electrified) although I can't now find any solid info on that. So let's take 50% APY as the maximum that ionomy could ever need to pay on the deposits in the first year.

The whole ION network will stake more than 100% in the first year (a bit less if the chain does not breath for extended periods of time). 50% of this goes to masternodes, 50% to regular wallets, which means that the "team" does not need any masternodes at all to fulfill their obligations for depositors. They can stake at the regular rate of 11.50 ION per block and still get enough coins even in the worst case scenario (i.e. every staker is electrified, every other wallet on the network also stakes and competes with them, etc).

[Phildo]

How to move on? You even keep on this 60 argument, lol, it was not your money and so its not a difference if its 1 or 1Mio unless you see the same problem as I do, scammer got these money and it makes difference if $1 or $10Mio. I think we agree on this.

To keep on, how to keep on, talking to each other about IoN and getting info from slack? Seriously??

The only way would be if the team comes over to talk. Talking seems impossible as well as providing an real discussion, this forum or forum rules are not protecting any user of this forum which means already, why should they come to get only attacked? Even if they have no answer, it does not mean they lie.

We will move on as soon as ion team appears here and they do not want because you boys and girls are so nice.

Now an question to you, do you think it is more productive if 5 scream that they are scammers or if you let them explain everytihng here and people could see that they are scammers or not. How about that? Being nice is hard , I know, they seem to be way better in that.

A very simple way to move on from the fact that Adam Matlack lost 6 figures in an obvious scam, and why the fact that Adam Matlack losing 6 figures to an obvious scam is a bad sign for the odds of success of this coin would be for you to stop bringing it up.

Who are the people that are screaming that they are scammers? Whenever you aren't here several people are asking questions about the coin, and several people answering them. try to participate instead of getting hung up on stuff no one but you has mentioned in days.

[boki15]

this is now offtopic:
Starting with pixelpowered, I thank you very much for constructive discussion. To 5 of my friends: That's it with my offtopic, I assume now we get an real discussion. I am sorry that we had to argue the way we did, I hope its past now.

[suchmoon]

How to move on? You even keep on this 60 argument, lol, it was not your money and so its not a difference if its 1 or 1Mio unless you see the same problem as I do, scammer got these money and it makes difference if $1 or $10Mio. I think we agree on this.

To keep on, how to keep on, talking to each other about IoN and getting info from slack? Seriously??

The only way would be if the team comes over to talk. Talking seems impossible as well as providing an real discussion, this forum or forum rules are not protecting any user of this forum which means already, why should they come to get only attacked? Even if they have no answer, it does not mean they lie.

We will move on as soon as ion team appears here and they do not want because you boys and girls are so nice.

Now an question to you, do you think it is more productive if 5 scream that they are scammers or if you let them explain everytihng here and people could see that they are scammers or not. How about that? Being nice is hard , I know, they seem to be way better in that.

Or you could start posting about ION for example instead of your imaginary constraints. There are no constraints, nobody is forcing the "team" to come over. They can choose to answer the questions some other way or not answer at all. That doesn't mean the discussion can't continue, quite the contrary actually.

Do you have any ION information to share with the class?

[boki15]

I could participate with my opinions, with the knowledge about IoN team, my opinions about all cross connections and so on.

Yes, I will participate, even on bitcointalk I choose my discussion partners and ie. discussion that I had with you was one way, you asked never replied except if you wanted to be rude. Please correct me if I am wrong.

However, I will wait with my opinions and contribution and the reason for that is you with opening an misleading thread involving my nickname. I do not see you opening threads for other users, only me. This is an serious reson not to contribute anything because I do not see in you someone who I would like to share opinions with if the only purpose for that seems to judgement, it isnt, its still about discussion.

[Cayuga]

Here is some napkin math for the whole masternode/staker thingy.

Stakers that are currently being sold would pay 15% APY (or 17.5% if you have a certain number of atoms), can be "electrified" to 30-35% respectively. I think the XPY converted ones were supposed to pay 25% (50% if electrified) although I can't now find any solid info on that. So let's take 50% APY as the maximum that ionomy could ever need to pay on the deposits in the first year.

The whole ION network will stake more than 100% in the first year (a bit less if the chain does not breath for extended periods of time). 50% of this goes to masternodes, 50% to regular wallets, which means that the "team" does not need any masternodes at all to fulfill their obligations for depositors. They can stake at the regular rate of 11.50 ION per block and still get enough coins even in the worst case scenario (i.e. every staker is electrified, every other wallet on the network also stakes and competes with them, etc).

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

[suchmoon]

I could participate with my opinions, with the knowledge about IoN team, my opinions about all cross connections and so on.

Yes, I will participate, even on bitcointalk I choose my discussion partners and ie. discussion that I had with you was one way, you asked never replied except if you wanted to be rude. Please correct me if I am wrong.

However, I will wait with my opinions and contribution and the reason for that is you with opening an misleading thread involving my nickname. I do not see you opening threads for other users, only me. This is an serious reson not to contribute anything because I do not see in you someone who I would like to share opinions with if the only purpose for that seems to judgement, it isnt, its still about discussion.

Ok, I take it as a "no" and as an admission that you will continue to crap this thread with off topic butthurt drivel. I might even open another thread in your honor since you like them so much.


Back to ION... gotta love paycoiner logic. The wallet is crap so let's keep coins online.


Edited 2020-11-28 to fix a broken image

[suchmoon]

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

Please correct then.

"less than 100" still sounds like more than 0, otherwise you would have just said 0, right?

[Franz_Huber]

So Adam Matlack replies to a question about the release date of ionomy's first game, "Gravity".
He says: "early to mid June is likely",
and then just nine minutes later "beta testing in the coming weeks".
They're trying to figure things out, ya know.



My guess is, bagholders will see a broken game some time around November. ION is a great investment, guys!

[boki15]

Oh yes, please open another one. You logic that your questions are ontopic and my answer on your ontopic is offtopic, well, it is broken like the most that you say. I take it now as a threat at it looks to mean something to you if you amuse yourself by opening trash threads on this forum

[Cayuga]

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

Please correct then.

"less than 100" still sounds like more than 0, otherwise you would have just said 0, right?

Correct.

[Phildo]

Here is some napkin math for the whole masternode/staker thingy.

Stakers that are currently being sold would pay 15% APY (or 17.5% if you have a certain number of atoms), can be "electrified" to 30-35% respectively. I think the XPY converted ones were supposed to pay 25% (50% if electrified) although I can't now find any solid info on that. So let's take 50% APY as the maximum that ionomy could ever need to pay on the deposits in the first year.

The whole ION network will stake more than 100% in the first year (a bit less if the chain does not breath for extended periods of time). 50% of this goes to masternodes, 50% to regular wallets, which means that the "team" does not need any masternodes at all to fulfill their obligations for depositors. They can stake at the regular rate of 11.50 ION per block and still get enough coins even in the worst case scenario (i.e. every staker is electrified, every other wallet on the network also stakes and competes with them, etc).

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

If there are not many team nodes, where are all the coins that people "put" into stakers going? what about all the coins from the xpy exchange?

Also, is this a matter of semantics? Is there a difference between 1 "team node" with all the coins from the xpy exchange, and more than 1 with all the coins spread out?

[suchmoon]

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

Please correct then.

"less than 100" still sounds like more than 0, otherwise you would have just said 0, right?

Correct.

Are you going to elaborate on the problem with my math?

[Cayuga]

Here is some napkin math for the whole masternode/staker thingy.

Stakers that are currently being sold would pay 15% APY (or 17.5% if you have a certain number of atoms), can be "electrified" to 30-35% respectively. I think the XPY converted ones were supposed to pay 25% (50% if electrified) although I can't now find any solid info on that. So let's take 50% APY as the maximum that ionomy could ever need to pay on the deposits in the first year.

The whole ION network will stake more than 100% in the first year (a bit less if the chain does not breath for extended periods of time). 50% of this goes to masternodes, 50% to regular wallets, which means that the "team" does not need any masternodes at all to fulfill their obligations for depositors. They can stake at the regular rate of 11.50 ION per block and still get enough coins even in the worst case scenario (i.e. every staker is electrified, every other wallet on the network also stakes and competes with them, etc).

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

If there are not many team nodes, where are all the coins that people "put" into stakers going? what about all the coins from the xpy exchange?

Also, is this a matter of semantics? Is there a difference between 1 "team node" with all the coins from the xpy exchange, and more than 1 with all the coins spread out?

No semantics, 1 node is 1 node. Some coins will stake in wallets. I read that these addresses will be publicly available.

[Cayuga]

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

Please correct then.

"less than 100" still sounds like more than 0, otherwise you would have just said 0, right?

Correct.

Are you going to elaborate on the problem with my math?

I will do that later, I have a dinner now, Amsterdam timezone 

[suchmoon]

Oh yes, please open another one. You logic that your questions are ontopic and my answer on your ontopic is offtopic, well, it is broken like the most that you say. I take it now as a threat at it looks to mean something to you if you amuse yourself by opening trash threads on this forum

Here you go:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1479233

[Phildo]

Here is some napkin math for the whole masternode/staker thingy.

Stakers that are currently being sold would pay 15% APY (or 17.5% if you have a certain number of atoms), can be "electrified" to 30-35% respectively. I think the XPY converted ones were supposed to pay 25% (50% if electrified) although I can't now find any solid info on that. So let's take 50% APY as the maximum that ionomy could ever need to pay on the deposits in the first year.

The whole ION network will stake more than 100% in the first year (a bit less if the chain does not breath for extended periods of time). 50% of this goes to masternodes, 50% to regular wallets, which means that the "team" does not need any masternodes at all to fulfill their obligations for depositors. They can stake at the regular rate of 11.50 ION per block and still get enough coins even in the worst case scenario (i.e. every staker is electrified, every other wallet on the network also stakes and competes with them, etc).

Your math is not entirely wrong but it needs some corrections, btw I do not think there will be many "team" nodes in the beginning, i.e. less than 100. The majority online now are customer nodes.

If there are not many team nodes, where are all the coins that people "put" into stakers going? what about all the coins from the xpy exchange?

Also, is this a matter of semantics? Is there a difference between 1 "team node" with all the coins from the xpy exchange, and more than 1 with all the coins spread out?

No semantics, 1 node is 1 node. Some coins will stake in wallets. I read that these addresses will be publicly available.

Didn't realize that 20k was also the max number of coins in a node. Why would some of the coins be staked in wallets? What is the purpose of a user paying the team to do something they can do themselves?

[ladrx]

So Adam Matlack replies to a question about the release date of ionomy's first game, "Gravity".
He says: "early to mid June is likely",
and then just nine minutes later "beta testing in the coming weeks".
They're trying to figure things out, ya know.



My guess is, bagholders will see a broken game some time around November. ION is a great investment, guys!

Relevant again:

"Ah, now eventually you do plan to have dinosaurs games for your, for your dinosaur tour gaming shitcoin, right?

[boki15]

Oh yes, please open another one. You logic that your questions are ontopic and my answer on your ontopic is offtopic, well, it is broken like the most that you say. I take it now as a threat at it looks to mean something to you if you amuse yourself by opening trash threads on this forum

Here you go:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1479233

You created now 2 threads where you lie in both. You are an lier as long as you dont provide. It is not offtopic as it has to do with this thread and your questions, you post into offtopic all the time when you discuss with me. Reply to all my questions that are and were ontopic that I asked.

I have no need to discuss something with liers, it is good that I posted, I assumed you to be good person and what happened to you teached you wrong lesson as everbody now can see how frustrated you are, you open just for me 2 threads because . Why do you lie around?