[ANN] [ETC] Ethereum Classic: Immutable Smart Contracts

[nightandday]

I must admit... I never bought 1 single ETH. That being said... I didn't really fall into all the smart contract Hype... But now that the dust has settled I have bought and own ETC for the principles that CODE IS LAW. 

I support your Fork of the Central Banking ETH community and thank you for your efforts to keep Crypto Decentralized. Decentralize EVERYTHING. Be the Decentralization

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[cointrader83]

I think ETC should not receive or return the reward from the hacker.

Hehe, this hacker is a funny guy 

[roselee]

I think ETC should not receive or return the reward from the hacker.

The whole point of this project is to stand behind the principles that imply that he is not a hacker at all. Those funds legitimately belong to him. He can do as he likes with them.

mmmmm sorry i dont think thats what ETC sais ETC sais we are not the law like in lawenvorcement. but the line code is law means something different it means the blockchain is immutable the ledger shall not be changed. we do not say we know if the hack or the takeing was a crime . there need to be an investigation. we are not the despot to decide . every person has a right of a objective investigation and a trail befor anounced guilty. and thats why ETC happend. not becouse we say its legal what the "hacker" did. me thinks given the evidence that have been published he took them legit but moraly hmmm or ethicaly not correct.becouse if the code was supost to act like it did the whole thing the dao was created like a fraud. and so he followed the fraud. was just faster then the one who planed to do the fraud.

Sorry but I disagree. The main point of ethereum is to develop an autonomous legal system. As per the terms of that legal system, the only legal system that has jurisdiction in matters of the ethereum blockchain, the "hacker" was within legal bounds. If some outside legal agency wants to interfere with the self governence of the sovereign ethereum blockchain than they are aggressors.

hmm interesting point of view you have.
ok lets say you are right and it was ment to be a autonomous legal system ( didnt see that in the white paper but anyway) 
how can such a system prevent fraud ? like  i said befor if the hacker acted legal the whole dao was fraud haveing that bug on purpose.

[soulgate]

Classic found his bottom 

[MisO69]

Donation confirmation  https://mobile.twitter.com/eth_classic/status/772939595726159872

Only 1000 ETC? Surely he can do better than that. He "earned" millions from the "hack" and that is all he can spare? That is funny. I cannot see how this is big news. Also there is the bigger problem. What does he intend to do with all his ETC now that he has full control of it? Not to dump on the market I hope. It would be nice to have an official statement from him.

Hackers are Bad guys. What ever the reason is, taking someone's property without consent is nothing but stealing. And we are expecting nice thing from a hacker ??

He had consent. Everyone who sent to the dao consented to the terms of the contract. That contract had an actionable clause in it allowing for him to make a withdrawal. Hes not a hacker. He was exercising his rights as per the terms and conditions of the contract that everyone agreed to.

I didn't agree to a contract where anyone can take the funds at their whim. I agreed to a DAO that would have been used to kickstart new projects and the like.

I realize that the fault lies with everyone who opted into the DAO. As the rules where the rules, however, it can be argued that someone needs to have extensive knowledge in programming to have vetted  that contract. Normally with conventional contracts one would hire a lawyer to go over it, then if anything goes bad you sue your lawyer for giving bad advice. I wonder if we who lost money in this venture can sue the company that vetted the code?

[suchmoon]

I didn't agree to a contract where anyone can take the funds at their whim. I agreed to a DAO that would have been used to kickstart new projects and the like.

I realize that the fault lies with everyone who opted into the DAO. As the rules where the rules, however, it can be argued that someone needs to have extensive knowledge in programming to have vetted  that contract. Normally with conventional contracts one would hire a lawyer to go over it, then if anything goes bad you sue your lawyer for giving bad advice. I wonder if we who lost money in this venture can sue the company that vetted the code?

Even IRL it would probably depend on what your actual contract with the lawyer was and I bet they would cover their ass in every way possible.

The lesson learned from the DAO should be this: don't enter into a contract that you can't vet yourself. Otherwise what's the point of "smart contracts" if you still need to hire a lawyer AND a programmer to sort it out for you.

This wasn't like buying a house or something that you could call a "necessity". Just the typical greed+stupidity that accompanies most crypto "investments", plus a good dose of exuberance. Deadly combination.

[MisO69]

I didn't agree to a contract where anyone can take the funds at their whim. I agreed to a DAO that would have been used to kickstart new projects and the like.

I realize that the fault lies with everyone who opted into the DAO. As the rules where the rules, however, it can be argued that someone needs to have extensive knowledge in programming to have vetted  that contract. Normally with conventional contracts one would hire a lawyer to go over it, then if anything goes bad you sue your lawyer for giving bad advice. I wonder if we who lost money in this venture can sue the company that vetted the code?

Even IRL it would probably depend on what your actual contract with the lawyer was and I bet they would cover their ass in every way possible.

The lesson learned from the DAO should be this: don't enter into a contract that you can't vet yourself. Otherwise what's the point of "smart contracts" if you still need to hire a lawyer AND a programmer to sort it out for you.

This wasn't like buying a house or something that you could call a "necessity". Just the typical greed+stupidity that accompanies most crypto "investments", plus a good dose of exuberance. Deadly combination.

You're missing the point.

Why would anyone use a smart contract if there was no guarantee that their money is safe? People will continue to just use banks and lawyers. You're right, why enter a smart contract you cannot vet for yourself. So with the current situation Eth/Etc is stuck and likely will go down, nobody will be using smart contracts unless they are insured.. This needs to be solved if we really want to attract the masses.

[suchmoon]

You're missing the point.

Why would anyone use a smart contract if there was no guarantee that their money is safe? People will continue to just use banks and lawyers. You're right, why enter a smart contract you cannot vet for yourself. So with the current situation Eth/Etc is stuck and likely will go down, nobody will be using smart contracts unless they are insured.. This needs to be solved if we really want to attract the masses.

Not sure why you're saying that I'm missing the point if we seem to agree, for the most part anyway.

I think there are plenty of uses for smart contracts than don't involve "investment" schemes or other kinds of substantial counterparty risk and/or excessive complexity. Even without the "hack" the DAO's viability was questionable at best.

As with anything new - walk before you run, horse before the cart, etc.

[greenuser]

https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/05/17/security-alert-geth-suffers-from-a-very-low-probable-dos-attack-vector-update-immediately/

Yes we know.  I'm so glad that we have our own geth. Those eth devs leave holes all over the place.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/krypton-abandons-ethereum-based-blockchain-after-51-attack-kent

Yes, such a shame.  People renting hashpower and using it to attack blockchains.  You would need ~350GH/s to 51% ETC.  Thank God there is't that amount of hashpower on the open market avalible to rent.



With respect to "code is law" taken from Ethereum Classic website https://ethereumclassic.github.io/

Transaction Finality

We believe the core value proposition of any blockchain is immutability; valid transactions can never be erased or forgotten.
Individuals interacting on Ethereum Classic are governed by this reality; Code is Law.

This does not necessarily mean that code replaces existing laws, or that only code is law (there are many geographical jurisdictions), but it gives users the opportunity to enter into a new blockchain-based jurisdiction where agreements are governed by code.

By entering into contracts on Ethereum Classic, you can be certain that the network remains neutral.
The outcome of transactions will be dictated by code you voluntarily interact with.
Unless explicitly defined by the contract code, there are no reversals, no undos, no opt-outs.

Transactions are final; applications are unstoppable.

[Anon136]

Donation confirmation  https://mobile.twitter.com/eth_classic/status/772939595726159872

Only 1000 ETC? Surely he can do better than that. He "earned" millions from the "hack" and that is all he can spare? That is funny. I cannot see how this is big news. Also there is the bigger problem. What does he intend to do with all his ETC now that he has full control of it? Not to dump on the market I hope. It would be nice to have an official statement from him.

Hackers are Bad guys. What ever the reason is, taking someone's property without consent is nothing but stealing. And we are expecting nice thing from a hacker ??

He had consent. Everyone who sent to the dao consented to the terms of the contract. That contract had an actionable clause in it allowing for him to make a withdrawal. Hes not a hacker. He was exercising his rights as per the terms and conditions of the contract that everyone agreed to.

I didn't agree to a contract where anyone can take the funds at their whim. I agreed to a DAO that would have been used to kickstart new projects and the like.

Than you don't understand what ETH is. What its for. Why it exists. What it represents. Look at the title of this thread. Immutable. The code IS the contract, sending funds IS the signature.

[roselee]

Donation confirmation  https://mobile.twitter.com/eth_classic/status/772939595726159872

Only 1000 ETC? Surely he can do better than that. He "earned" millions from the "hack" and that is all he can spare? That is funny. I cannot see how this is big news. Also there is the bigger problem. What does he intend to do with all his ETC now that he has full control of it? Not to dump on the market I hope. It would be nice to have an official statement from him.

Hackers are Bad guys. What ever the reason is, taking someone's property without consent is nothing but stealing. And we are expecting nice thing from a hacker ??

He had consent. Everyone who sent to the dao consented to the terms of the contract. That contract had an actionable clause in it allowing for him to make a withdrawal. Hes not a hacker. He was exercising his rights as per the terms and conditions of the contract that everyone agreed to.

I didn't agree to a contract where anyone can take the funds at their whim. I agreed to a DAO that would have been used to kickstart new projects and the like.

Than you don't understand what ETH is. What its for. Why it exists. What it represents. Look at the title of this thread. Immutable. The code IS the contract, sending funds IS the signature.

but this is wrong not the etherum blockchain alowed the hack it was a third party the dao which had the bug and alowed the draining but the ethereum devs and foundation decided to step in and bailout those who trusted tual and co. so ethereum  eth fork lost its immutablety

[greenuser]

Donation confirmation  https://mobile.twitter.com/eth_classic/status/772939595726159872

Only 1000 ETC? Surely he can do better than that. He "earned" millions from the "hack" and that is all he can spare? That is funny. I cannot see how this is big news. Also there is the bigger problem. What does he intend to do with all his ETC now that he has full control of it? Not to dump on the market I hope. It would be nice to have an official statement from him.

Hackers are Bad guys. What ever the reason is, taking someone's property without consent is nothing but stealing. And we are expecting nice thing from a hacker ??

He had consent. Everyone who sent to the dao consented to the terms of the contract. That contract had an actionable clause in it allowing for him to make a withdrawal. Hes not a hacker. He was exercising his rights as per the terms and conditions of the contract that everyone agreed to.

I didn't agree to a contract where anyone can take the funds at their whim. I agreed to a DAO that would have been used to kickstart new projects and the like.

Than you don't understand what ETH is. What its for. Why it exists. What it represents. Look at the title of this thread. Immutable. The code IS the contract, sending funds IS the signature.

but this is wrong not the etherum blockchain alowed the hack it was a third party the dao which had the bug and alowed the draining but the ethereum devs and foundation decided to step in and bailout those who trusted tual and co. so ethereum  eth fork lost its immutablety

Ethereum works perfectly.

Up until the fork and the “white” hat hack, the Foundation had done no wrong.

Slock.it screwed up.  They wrote bad code. The tech was experimental.  They allowed too much money to flow in to the Dao.  It should have been caped.  Anyhow, someone found a weakness and exploited it.  We don't know who, but it had to be someone who knew their way around this very newly made programming language.  But the foundation would not let slockit fail. No, just like when governments bailed out the "to big to fail" banks for over selling sub-prime loans and mortgages.

It's called cronyism.

I invested in eth but not in the Dao.  I thought the Dao was high risk and I didn't want to be exposed to that much risk so I didn't invest. I invested in an immutable block-chain and all I got was a database.  Ethereum welsh on the deal.  Shame on you Ethereum Foundation.

[Mrpumperitis]

https://blog.bity.com/2016/09/06/whitehat-withdrawal-contract-final-deposit-is-available/

The DarkDAO attacker withdrew 3.64 million ETC on September 6th 00:02 CET.
The funds are now located inside this address 0x5e8f0e63e7614c47079a41ad4c37be7def06df5a. At the time of writing most of the funds are intact except for 1,000 ETC the attacker donated to an address associated with ETC development. The WHG kindly ask that the recipient of these funds deposit the 1000 ETC to the withdraw contract so it can be distributed to its rightful owners.

[pawlo74]

https://blog.bity.com/2016/09/06/whitehat-withdrawal-contract-final-deposit-is-available/

The DarkDAO attacker withdrew 3.64 million ETC on September 6th 00:02 CET.
The funds are now located inside this address 0x5e8f0e63e7614c47079a41ad4c37be7def06df5a. At the time of writing most of the funds are intact except for 1,000 ETC the attacker donated to an address associated with ETC development. The WHG kindly ask that the recipient of these funds deposit the 1000 ETC to the withdraw contract so it can be distributed to its rightful owners.

DO NOT FORGET CODE IS LAW

We are not law enforcement or police and first of all we believe he is not hacker or attacker but very talented person who kindly helped us find bug in the system and should be awarded for this not punished!

[roselee]

https://blog.bity.com/2016/09/06/whitehat-withdrawal-contract-final-deposit-is-available/

The DarkDAO attacker withdrew 3.64 million ETC on September 6th 00:02 CET.
The funds are now located inside this address 0x5e8f0e63e7614c47079a41ad4c37be7def06df5a. At the time of writing most of the funds are intact except for 1,000 ETC the attacker donated to an address associated with ETC development. The WHG kindly ask that the recipient of these funds deposit the 1000 ETC to the withdraw contract so it can be distributed to its rightful owners.

DO NOT FORGET CODE IS LAW

We are not law enforcement or police and first of all we believe he is not hacker or attacker but very talented person who kindly helped us find bug in the system and should be awarded for this not punished!

who is we ?

[pawlo74]

https://blog.bity.com/2016/09/06/whitehat-withdrawal-contract-final-deposit-is-available/

The DarkDAO attacker withdrew 3.64 million ETC on September 6th 00:02 CET.
The funds are now located inside this address 0x5e8f0e63e7614c47079a41ad4c37be7def06df5a. At the time of writing most of the funds are intact except for 1,000 ETC the attacker donated to an address associated with ETC development. The WHG kindly ask that the recipient of these funds deposit the 1000 ETC to the withdraw contract so it can be distributed to its rightful owners.

DO NOT FORGET CODE IS LAW

We are not law enforcement or police and first of all we believe he is not hacker or attacker but very talented person who kindly helped us find bug in the system and should be awarded for this not punished!

who is we ?

ETC community, is it not? Than me! If this is not what ETC community feels like so my mistake and I should not be here. I was mislead to think like it.

[greenuser]

https://blog.bity.com/2016/09/06/whitehat-withdrawal-contract-final-deposit-is-available/

The DarkDAO attacker withdrew 3.64 million ETC on September 6th 00:02 CET.
The funds are now located inside this address 0x5e8f0e63e7614c47079a41ad4c37be7def06df5a. At the time of writing most of the funds are intact except for 1,000 ETC the attacker donated to an address associated with ETC development. The WHG kindly ask that the recipient of these funds deposit the 1000 ETC to the withdraw contract so it can be distributed to its rightful owners.

DO NOT FORGET CODE IS LAW

We are not law enforcement or police and first of all we believe he is not hacker or attacker but very talented person who kindly helped us find bug in the system and should be awarded for this not punished!

who is we ?

ETC community, is it not? Than me! If this is not what ETC community feels like so my mistake and I should not be here. I was mislead to think like it.

I see that there are people in the ETC community that have strong opinions!  Also some,.. like myself, have no opinion at all as I did not invest in the Dao.  However, we have no Centralized Governance.  We have no "man at the top".  We have no hierarchy to make that call.

I understand your plead @Mrpumperitis for the 1000etc but, I do not recognise your self proclaimed authority as the Ethereum Foundation Spokesperson.

If the Foundation want to beg for the 1000etc, let the person at the the center of the Ethereum Foundation step forward and kneel before us all. They will have to make their case to every etc miner, holder and supporter and gain agreement among each and every one of us before they can change the direction of the 1000etc in question.  

The 1000etc was donated for development.  Anyone that wants it to go elsewhere, well they will have to join us, lobby, campaign, argue and gain conscientious among all the etc community, before it will ever happen.


Quoted from Ethereum Classic Website https://ethereumclassic.github.io/

Decentralized Governance

"There are many problems that fester due to centralization and opaqueness; corruption, unaccountability, nepotism, inefficiency and stagnation. Ultimately, centralization leads to fragility; only decentralized systems can stand the test of time.

These problems can be only solved by adhering to governance systems that do not rely on a central point of failure. Just like distributed networks and the consensus protocol itself, we believe that only truly decentralized projects can survive in the long run.

Ethereum Classic manifests these values by relinquishing control by a formalized central foundation. The only hierarchy is that of transparent meritocracy and mutual reputation. No backroom deals or behind-closed-doors unilateral decision making; just free and open discourse".

[bitpop]

Can you imagine a massive hack on a bank, prison, or other record keeping system? What if all backups are destroyed? All of a sudden the records are gone and who has what money or time remaining?

Some kind of simple backup into the blockchain creates an immutable backup. Bitcoin or etc only. Unless you want eth forks, centralized "blockchains," or databases that will become corrupt.

[ayiphelmy]

People slowly leaving etc, low trade volume on Poloneix ... c'mon dev work more hard and more FAST

[Bl4ckw00d]

People slowly leaving etc, low trade volume on Poloneix ... c'mon dev work more hard and more FAST

shill accounts are making less and less sense these days. Like cmon. Atleast try