Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments

[yvv]

https://byteball.fr/

(alternative hub and witness service to byteball.org/bb) now displays its hub number of incoming connections (updated every minute).

May I suggest an explicit option to donate? Might cover some of the fees

Just send some bytes to his address: MEJGDND55XNON7UU3ZKERJIZMMXJTVCV

Right (that's the address of the Witness). Very nice guys ! I had even not think of it  

Thanks for your support.

You may also help by pointing your wallets to wss://byteball.fr/bb (In your wallet settings->hub set wss://byteball.fr/bb) to get the witness validate more and more.

By the way, the correct url for your hub is byteball.fr/bb. When I put wss:// in front, my wallet does not sync (android).

[tonych]

Well, it's hard not to see DAG in Byteball design.

It's also seen in Ethereum design, any idea why they call themselves "chain", not "DAG"?

Ask them.  Perhaps they started from a chain and allowed for a DAG in some cases to accommodate for some need.

- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.

And what?  Of course, there are edge cases.  And I didn't invent DAG if you want me to admit that

- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.

And?

I just mentioned things which point toward "chain", not "DAG".

They are not mutually exclusive.
If you want to make some point, make it.

- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).

Any reasons to believe the topology will be in some way "wrong" in high TPS mode?

Yes. I suspect the ordering will slow everything down significantly. Is it hard to run a test?

It might slow down or might not.  What I know for sure, the current implementation leaves a lot of room for optimization.  But it is not my primary concern at the moment, all these TPS should be useful for something, and I pay most attention to the demand side rather than the supply.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Well, it's hard not to see DAG in Byteball design.

It's also seen in Ethereum design, any idea why they call themselves "chain", not "DAG"?

Ask them.  Perhaps they started from a chain and allowed for a DAG in some cases to accommodate for some need.

- GHOST protocol gives a similar topology of blocks and if we have only 1 transaction per block then there is no difference in first order approximation.

And what?  Of course, there are edge cases.  And I didn't invent DAG if you want me to admit that

- The whitepaper tells about ordering and the main chain.

And?

I just mentioned things which point toward "chain", not "DAG".

They are not mutually exclusive.
If you want to make some point, make it.

- There is no publicly available information on transactions topology in high TPS mode (this would show if Byteball utilizes high scalability granted by a DAG).

Any reasons to believe the topology will be in some way "wrong" in high TPS mode?

Yes. I suspect the ordering will slow everything down significantly. Is it hard to run a test?

It might slow down or might not.  What I know for sure, the current implementation leaves a lot of room for optimization.  But it is not my primary concern at the moment, all these TPS should be useful for something, and I pay most attention to the demand side rather than the supply.

Ok, let's return to this once the software is polished enough to run a stresstest. I'll stay in the old 50/50 position and will be telling that DAG/CHAIN question will be answered after the test.

[ByteFan]

https://byteball.fr/

(alternative hub and witness service to byteball.org/bb) now displays its hub number of incoming connections (updated every minute).

May I suggest an explicit option to donate? Might cover some of the fees

Just send some bytes to his address: MEJGDND55XNON7UU3ZKERJIZMMXJTVCV

Right (that's the address of the Witness). Very nice guys ! I had even not think of it  

Thanks for your support.

You may also help by pointing your wallets to wss://byteball.fr/bb (In your wallet settings->hub set wss://byteball.fr/bb) to get the witness validate more and more.

By the way, the correct url for your hub is byteball.fr/bb. When I put wss:// in front, my wallet does not sync (android).

You're right wss:// is not wanted. Fixed.
Thx for the update.

[CryptKeeper]

Find one of 5 Byteball Easter Eggs,
each worth 1 GB ($80-$100):
https://youtu.be/uWTTLfclSF0

Second Easter Egg found: https://twitter.com/CryptKeeperBTT/status/852968932877225984

3 more to go!

[SatoNatomato]

Ok, let's return to this once the software is polished enough to run a stresstest. I'll stay in the old 50/50 position and will be telling that DAG/CHAIN question will be answered after the test.

You cant win with troll.

Now you are just changing your original question to be "what is the result of a stresstest", and if tonych actually makes a stresstest you would just say "but oh you run the stresstest with AMD Ryzen and more powerful motherboard than what is available for normal people living in Moldova".

Byteball is the first DAG-coin and that hurts your little ego since Iota is still not on any exchange and has the retarded idea of using Proof-of-Work in the space of IoT.

Start an issue on github if you have something to back this up with, and work it out with the dev through official channels.... github being one of the most direct way to go about it

I just need an answer. Any answer I could just link people to.

Use this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1608859.msg18291320#msg18291320 as tonych gave you answer to your "scalability" question previously.

It is normal that there is no consensus (yet) about the unstable trailing part.

If we denote the interval of time between a transaction issuance and the transaction finalization (by witnesses) as confirmation time, does an average confirmation time increase monotonically if the global TPS rate increases monotonically?

PS: "Yes" would mean that SatoNatomato was wrong that DAG has no limits on scaling even if we have superpowerful hardware (but the latency still persists).

It all depends on the behavior of witnesses.  That said, it is reasonable to expect that as TPS increases, witnesses also post more frequently, therefore confirmation time decreases.  Of course, there is a lower bound defined by network latency, times number of witnesses.

As more transactions are posted to the network transaction times decrease - throughput increases.

Just pathetic CfB being pathetic.

[portabella]

You cant win with troll.

Now you are just changing your original question to be "what is the result of a stresstest", and if tonych actually makes a stresstest you would just say "but oh you run the stresstest with AMD Ryzen and more powerful motherboard than what is available for normal people living in Moldova".

Byteball is the first DAG-coin and that hurts your little ego since Iota is still not on any exchange and has the retarded idea of using Proof-of-Work in the space of IoT.

As more transactions are posted to the network transaction times decrease - throughput increases.

I am very interested in your IoT experience and especially the prototype mentioned, is it or will it ever be available for public study? Did you actually use the ESP8266, if so and you cant FOSS it, can you give a few pointers how one would go about implementing a light Byteball client for it, what was the biggest problem you faced?

Thank you.

[vlight]

Byteball is the first DAG-coin

Bitcoin is the first DAG-coin 

CfB knew this in 2015, way before Byteball was a thing 

Ethereum uses DAG aswell, any comparisons that can be made?

DAG != DAG, we can say that Bitcoin uses DAG as well.

PS: Technically any blockchain is DAG, I don't see Bitcoin or Ethereum cheerleaders screaming "DAG".

More fun:

Here is a more informative picture (arrows show references, they are directed opposite to the timeline):

+1

No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain.

I'm still not convinced that Byteball is a pure DAG coin, to prove my position I would need to generate a lot of transactions on Byteball network to show that in certain conditions (related to DAG topology) TPS growth is negatively impacted by necessity to pick the main chain. If you compared Ethereum (which calls itself blockchain) and Byteball you would see that they don't differ much:

If you looked at IOTA you would see this:

I'm not interested enough to make sure that my assumption is correct, but you could help by generating a lot of transactions and posting here the topology of the resulting Byteball DAG. Try 10 TPS on the testnet maybe?

"No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain."

It's pretty obvious which is the real DAG coin 

[ShineKami]

I sent the bytes to "KEKYWT35NDA7LA7M23JTXTEZW2U7242I"
But it seems something is wrong
https://explorer.byteball.org/#KEKYWT35NDA7LA7M23JTXTEZW2U7242I
Now get email:
"witnessing problem: only 8 spendable outputs left, will split an output of 10000000"

[Odrak]

Byteball is the first DAG-coin

Bitcoin is the first DAG-coin 

CfB knew this in 2015, way before Byteball was a thing 

Ethereum uses DAG aswell, any comparisons that can be made?

DAG != DAG, we can say that Bitcoin uses DAG as well.

PS: Technically any blockchain is DAG, I don't see Bitcoin or Ethereum cheerleaders screaming "DAG".

More fun:

Here is a more informative picture (arrows show references, they are directed opposite to the timeline):

+1

No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain.

I'm still not convinced that Byteball is a pure DAG coin, to prove my position I would need to generate a lot of transactions on Byteball network to show that in certain conditions (related to DAG topology) TPS growth is negatively impacted by necessity to pick the main chain. If you compared Ethereum (which calls itself blockchain) and Byteball you would see that they don't differ much:

If you looked at IOTA you would see this:

I'm not interested enough to make sure that my assumption is correct, but you could help by generating a lot of transactions and posting here the topology of the resulting Byteball DAG. Try 10 TPS on the testnet maybe?

"No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain."

It's pretty obvious which is the real DAG coin 

What is the significance of the implied difference?

[vlight]

What is the significance of the implied difference?

Not sure, we'll have to wait and see how both implementations work in real world.

[Come-from-Beyond]

You cant win with troll.

Well, you are a newbie on this forum, otherwise you would know that I have some expertise in cryptocoins and people from the outer world approach me for consulting. I have to ask about Byteball internals (and of 10 other altcoins which are popular now) to keep the quality of my service above average level. What you perceive as trolling is part of my job.

[SatoNatomato]

You cant win with troll.

Well, you are a newbie on this forum, otherwise you would know that I have some expertise in cryptocoins and people from the outer world approach me for consulting. I have to ask about Byteball internals (and of 10 other altcoins which are popular now) to keep the quality of my service above average level. What you perceive as trolling is part of my job.

Well, you should stop telling false information to your imaginary clients, as obviously you know nothing about Byteball, you should be a good sport, a good person like your mother tried to teach you to be, and direct people to ask in Byteball slack or Tony.

[zanzibar]

I have to ask about Byteball internals (and of 10 other altcoins which are popular now) to keep the quality of my service above average level.

Which others do you follow?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Well, you should stop telling false information to your imaginary clients, as obviously you know nothing about Byteball, you should be a good sport, a good person like your mother tried to teach you to be, and direct people to ask in Byteball slack or Tony.

"Imaginary"? Hehe, ok. Never mind then.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Which others do you follow?

I can't provide the list because if some altcoin is not listed because I hadn't noticed it yet some people may still treat it as a sign of disapproval. This wouldn't be a good deed towards devs working hard on their projects.

[SatoNatomato]

You cant win with troll.

Now you are just changing your original question to be "what is the result of a stresstest", and if tonych actually makes a stresstest you would just say "but oh you run the stresstest with AMD Ryzen and more powerful motherboard than what is available for normal people living in Moldova".

Byteball is the first DAG-coin and that hurts your little ego since Iota is still not on any exchange and has the retarded idea of using Proof-of-Work in the space of IoT.

As more transactions are posted to the network transaction times decrease - throughput increases.

I am very interested in your IoT experience and especially the prototype mentioned, is it or will it ever be available for public study? Did you actually use the ESP8266, if so and you cant FOSS it, can you give a few pointers how one would go about implementing a light Byteball client for it, what was the biggest problem you faced?

Thank you.

We cant FOSS the prototype as parts of it are used in the current iteration, the most meaningful parts of course, which is the porting of secp256k1 library, thats basically all that was missing on current esp8266 sdks.

The other problems faced was actually understanding and working through the Byteball light-client js code, and testing.

Now for the next iteration, see the problem with ESP8266 and similar chips, Realtek has a newer almost similar but slightly faster, is the power/energy consumption.

In IoT, especially for things which are sensors, they arent usually connected to power-grid, and run on batteries. ESP8266, despite being weak ass shit in general computing, 80Mhz, if you overdo it can do 160Mhz, with 96kb ram, it still uses on average a whooping 300mAh and peaks at 800mAh. Optimize all you want but you aint gonna get a usable sensor lasting more than 6 months on 4 AA batteries, if it will report something even each 5min.

And if you put 10 000 sensors somewhere you aint gonna go replacing them all every 6 months. We need to go deeper, lower in energy used, to last years, and yet still make secure WebSocket connection and perform Byteballs ecdsa (secp256k1) and sha256, this is the current challenge and it is very fun.

ESP8266 is like a fat cow compared to whats needed.  

[zanzibar]

Which others do you follow?

I can't provide the list because if some altcoin is not listed because I hadn't noticed it yet some people may still treat it as a sign of disapproval. This wouldn't be a good deed towards devs working hard on their projects.

Okay, no worries, just curious what projects were on your radar. You can PM me the list if you want.

[coldmoldy]

Please PM me that list as well

[vanarebane]

Byteball has the most innovative features, which is the killing innovation things in the crypto. We may see it on Poloniex this year.