Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[l3sny]

For now there is no decent, reliable lawyers to assist with the claim, class action or group action. Nova wants $1,500 just for sending a letter to knc. No client care policy, no tactics nothing. If someone has instructed them please share your experience. US attorney is for US citizens I presume. Perhaps they can issue there.

Wanting all that money up front is not a good sign, and is probably a waste of time and will be throwing good money after bad.

If he was confident of winning, he'd do it on a no-win no-fee basis, charge 10% if successful and make a few hundred thousand.

According to Magnus Daar, they're not allowed to do that in Sweden. Every Swedish lawyer I've talked to has asked for a retainer around $1500 for a letter and pre-trial prep. Costs will obviously rise if it gets to court.  So it's put your money where your mouth is time.

So they are telling you there is no win no fee in Sweden? I do not believe. I just got response from Magnus and he is asking for more details. I will respond and let you know what's the story. My claim relates to a nuber of Jupiters (I asked for return within 7 days after delivery in EU) and one Neptune as basically I did not get the 'bonus' Neptune as per their promise from May.

Hi,

Maybe we need to set up crowdfunding or something similar to pay for legal costs?
If everyone would chip in some BTC, € or $ we'd get there very quickly I presume.
Keep us posted on his response l3sny.

P.S. Also still waiting on "bonus" Neptune to be delivered

I am of the same opinion.
I think we need:
set up a community website (or perhaps use the existing one i.e. http://kncnews.org/legal)
discuss with the lawyers chances of the claims (the claims will be on different footing, some will be for the Jupiters some other for titans and other for Neptunes etc.) and tactics
collate the claimants and their evidence (date/ref. of the order, when delivered, what were the problems, where they adressed, was there RMA, was there a refund demand, correspondence from KnC and probably a few more bits and pieces, this I think relates only to EU based clients but I might be wrong, the lawyers will tell it)
agree funding with the lawyers once we are satisfied there is a number of claims with reasonable chances of success.

For now I will try to discuss my case with them with a view to share my opinion on the matter. Unfortunately it will be very difficult to co-ordinate this via public forum as most of the information is confidential.

Yes I think that we would need to put some money up infront but only when we are sure there are reasonable chances of success. I do not think a % contract  would be available as indeed it is illegal in many jurisdictions. I imagine that it is illegal in Sweden either. But this can be sorted in some other way I am sure.

[poodle63]

Another three weeks to go to waiting delivery my miner, hope that time 500mh then.

[unitedminers]

I have a Titan with 4 cubes which are working for a few seconds each at 260 watts but jump back to about 7 watts and don't really mine much. Firmware 1.03 or 1.04 with class 10 SD card doesn't change anything.

Is there any way to get the cubes back mining? Maybe by increasing volt for every die which are currently at -0.0366?

At this point, I think we have firmly established that the Titan is a bonafide piece of shit, that does not work, and has a very good chance of catching on fire.  No amount of work by the customer can change that.

KNC is shipping defective gear, obfuscating the issue whenever possible, deflecting and delaying legitimate complaints, and is in blatant violation of EU law.

I for one cannot wait until their "BFL moment", when the whole thing comes crashing down and these assholes get whats coming.  And it is coming. 

Some very good legal professionals are already after them, and the numbers are multiplying.  Pretending they are exempt from the law will only work for these dip-shits for so long. 
 

I'm getting a spi xfer ioctl error and all cubes crash after 2 seconds. Different firmware doesn't change anything.

They have probably the same problem: http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/62812-knc-spi-xfer-ioctl-error-on-spi-device-any-solution

Any ideas?

[s1gs3gv]

I think we need:
set up a community website (or perhaps use the existing one i.e. http://kncnews.org/legal)
discuss with the lawyers chances of the claims (the claims will be on different footing, some will be for the Jupiters some other for titans and other for Neptunes etc.) and tactics
collate the claimants and their evidence (date/ref. of the order, when delivered, what were the problems, where they adressed, was there RMA, was there a refund demand, correspondence from KnC and probably a few more bits and pieces, this I think relates only to EU based clients but I might be wrong, the lawyers will tell it)
agree funding with the lawyers once we are satisfied there is a number of claims with reasonable chances of success.

For now I will try to discuss my case with them with a view to share my opinion on the matter. Unfortunately it will be very difficult to co-ordinate this via public forum as most of the information is confidential.

The primary purpose of kncnews.org is to collect and disseminate information of interest to current and future Titan owners. Links to groups trying to organize legal action, information about the costs, grounds and appropriate strategies of/for legal actions, and anecdotal reports about successes or failures in this area are welcome. However, because this is a publicly available resource, I agree with you that the kncnews.org forum might not be the best place to try to conduct private conversations on strategy etc because any one is free to join and no attempt to qualify members is made by the admin or anyone else.

Even if you secure group communication you still have issues of identity and intent to deal with. On the other hand, perhaps a public conversation by people seeking redress is the best option because of the message it would send to KNC.

I don't have a good solution to the problem but I'm guessing that group action is likely to be more effective and less expensive than each of us acting on our own.

[cryptomole]

For now there is no decent, reliable lawyers to assist with the claim, class action or group action. Nova wants $1,500 just for sending a letter to knc. No client care policy, no tactics nothing. If someone has instructed them please share your experience. US attorney is for US citizens I presume. Perhaps they can issue there.

Apparently not....
..I got a message from Charlotte C. Lynn as follows: "Yes, we are interested in hearing from business customers as well. We are also interested to talking to international customers."
I am from UK and purchased as a business.
I have talked to a number of lawyers and have had some interesting points raised - one of which is that if it can be shown that their terms and conditions were not displayed or linked obviously from their product page but were hidden - the transaction is not governed by Swedish law but by the law of the country of the purchaser.

One of the things that seems really important is as much evidence as possible by way of screenshots or ideally site rips showing how the website looked at time of pre-order.
If anyone has anything it would be really useful?

I was also given the following link by a UK solicitor http://www.legal500.com/c/sweden/intellectual-property-and-media

I have also been advised that all non business customers are entitled to the statutory 14 day cooling off period (despite what knc say in their t's & c's about everyone being a business customer) and can claim a refund without any reason.
Additionally business customers have a good case too - not only for refunds but also for damages.

I will update as I get more information re - legal position.

[cryptomole]

This has probably been posted before but it is important....KNC today said (again I guess) the following posted by Kurt on KNC Forums

start

Hi,

As there has been some confusion in regards to the warranty period of each product, it has now been decided that batch 1 Titans and batch 1 and 2 Neptune miners are now applicable for 12 months warranty from the date of delivery.

To answer your questions specifically Pete, the terms and conditions are the same for all batches apart from the warranty period, which has now been set to 12 months for the aforementioned products/batches.

Kurt
 
end

below is the link to the reply to this question on forums


 http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/acccounts/65038-t-c-specific-to-each-batch-need-to-be-made-available-online


well hell it is not much...but it is something ...not that it will help a lot but let them stall your RMA back..but still

(I'm a NO ROI NO REFUND Titan 1st batch order)

anyway to those who don't follow KNC forums

They changed their tune because they couldnt back out of it as they offered a 12 month warranty at time of taking pre-orders.

This is an excerpt from their terms and conditions at the time:

6. Limited Warranty
6.1 KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery from KnCMiner
provided that the Products have been used in accordance with the at all times published instructions and requirements issued by KnCMiner, including but not limited to
prescribed operating environment for the Products. Products are for indoor use only. Liability for defects shall not cover defects due to circumstances arising after the risk
for the Products has passed to the Purchaser such as, however not limited to, defects due to normal wear and tear or deterioration. KnCMiner warrants that the Products
are delivered free of pledges or any other encumbrance not known by the Purchaser. Any warranty obligations for KnCMiner requires a written complaint by the Purchaser
within reasonable time, no later than ten (10) days from when the Purchaser became aware, or should have been aware, of the relevant defect or fault. KnCMiner is not
liable for any defect or fault caused by the Purchaser or a third party or that is caused by, including but not limited to, improper use, handling or excessive use of the
Products. Further, KnCMiner is not responsible for defects caused as a result of the Purchaser or a third party has failed to comply with the instructions given by KnCMiner.
The content of this limited warranty shall replace all other written or non-written, explicit or implied warranties

[s1gs3gv]

I'm getting a spi xfer ioctl error and all cubes crash after 2 seconds. Different firmware doesn't change anything.

They have probably the same problem: http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/62812-knc-spi-xfer-ioctl-error-on-spi-device-any-solution

Any ideas?

Have you tried KNC support ?

[unitedminers]

I'm getting a spi xfer ioctl error and all cubes crash after 2 seconds. Different firmware doesn't change anything.

They have probably the same problem: http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/62812-knc-spi-xfer-ioctl-error-on-spi-device-any-solution

Any ideas?

Have you tried KNC support ?

Still waiting for an answer.

Now I've mixed the cubes from the working Titan with the not working Titan. I've found out only one cube has the spi xfer ioctl error and the other 3 cubes of the former not working Titan are now working at 2/3 but only if I mix theses cubes with cubes from the fully working Titan.

I've also switched from two 1300 Enermax PSUs for each Titan to only one 1300 Enermax PSU and I got 3 cubes back working at 2/3. Maybe the Titans have a bigger problem with two PSUs than expected?

BTW Firmware 1.05 is total crap! Rejects between 70-100% ... these KnC amateurs

[whisper]

They have a ToS witch say: "Give us your money and go f**k you self!", but soon all will changing...

[portice]

"We're currently ramping up deliveries of these brand-new scrypt miners and expect to deliver the remainder of batch 1 of the most efficient hardware miner on the market over the next three weeks to our customers."

 

[xlameee]

Hey I have a problem with my knc titan and seems knc won't help me to resolve it fast I have to look anywhere else for solution

I setup my titan as their setup guide shown but the controller wont recognized the asics . In the advance menu doesn't show any of the asics.
I went over and over again on their troubleshooting guide still nothing.

Anyone can help me to solve that issue I'll really appreciate it


Thank you

[Soros Shorts]

 Bonus Neptunes ...    When? 

[Bogart]

Hey I have a problem with my knc titan and seems knc won't help me to resolve it fast I have to look anywhere else for solution

I setup my titan as their setup guide shown but the controller wont recognized the asics . In the advance menu doesn't show any of the asics.
I went over and over again on their troubleshooting guide still nothing.

Anyone can help me to solve that issue I'll really appreciate it


Thank you

I would start by connecting just one board.  If it's not recognized, move it to a different controller port and try again.  Try all the ports.  If no results, try again with a different board and cable.

Also make sure the cable is connected the right way around on both ends, and that you didn't miss a row of pins when connecting it.

[RoadStress]

Bonus Neptunes ...    When? 

KnC doesn't deal with customers haven't you heard? They are on their own now...so I guess the bonus Neptune will never come.

[Soros Shorts]

Bonus Neptunes ...    When? 

KnC doesn't deal with customers haven't you heard? They are on their own now...so I guess the bonus Neptune will never come.

Well it seems like they are still happy to have us as customers for their 28nm crap, because I could still add the old chips to my cart.

[Searing]

Well this has got to hurt....PAIN!

Neptune Price on Minersource $2999.00 Batch 1

http://minersource.net/products/knc-neptune-3-3th-bitcoin-miner-in-stock-now

Neptune batch 1 price on ebay IN HAND $1025.00 sold

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KNC-KnCMiner-Neptune-BTC-BitCoin-Miner-20nm-3-3TH-s-IN-HAND-/181562453647?pt=US_Virtual_Currency&hash=item2a45f72e8f

Titan Price on Ebay  $3455.00 sold

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-Titan-Miner-Litecoin-In-hand-READY-TO-SHIP-300-MH-s-28nm-chip-/171500053289?pt=US_Virtual_Currency&hash=item27ee332329

well by the time I get my Titan in 3 weeks the joke is on me...it really will only be good for a doorstop/space heater this winter


edit: fixed link and added a couple more just to beat myself up some more (good to have goals)

[Unacceptable]

Well this has got to hurt....PAIN!

Neptune Price on Minersource

http://minersource.net/products/knc-neptune-3-3th-bitcoin-miner-in-stock-now

Titan Price on Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40|R40&_nkw=knc+titan&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1

Uh,your link no worky  

This will make ya feel better!!!!!!!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-Titan-Miner-Litecoin-In-hand-READY-TO-SHIP-300-MH-s-28nm-chip-/171500053289?pt=US_Virtual_Currency&hash=item27ee332329&nma=true&si=ArLJEBBMWlw79K4sBLSWT3XJJZE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

And remember kids.....

[cryptomole]

NOTE: This is mostly a re-hash of info from knc forums and bitcoin talk.....I just have been grabbing this info as it pops up on knc forum and here
in case (likely) after I get my Titan (that don't work) I will have to use such resources...there are probably better lists and more informed folks
but a couple people asked me via PM and this is what I have in my kncwtf folder...for when (not likely an if here) I too will have to use such
resources to get some kinda satisfaction back from KNC...in my case it is the Titan...

anyway as long as I made this to PM those guys for what it is worth I tossed i up here

I make NO CLAIMS ANY OF THIS WILL WORK OR THE FOLK INVOLVED ARE LEGIT ETC...Just a list of stuff/options I've been grabbing
in case KNC does not in some way make good on its promises of working products..delivered in time..doing wtf they said they were supposed to do

(yeah you are right I will be adding to this list and probably using it sooner rather then later)

best source is this thread and knc forums..but save knc forum stuff...I fully expect them to nuke the site..deletions and banning are way up
so save all the pages etc on the knc forum imho it is gonna get pulled one of these days





https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg9236786#msg9236786

above fire hazard titan

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg9212232#msg9212232

above knc form letter used from bitcoin talk

http://www.kncrefund.com/faq.html

above knc refund site

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg9176241#msg9176241

above how much $$$ knc has been putting into its data farm vs getting

Neptune/Titans out and fixed


https://twitter.com/KNCRefund

above twitter knc refund feed

http://cryptomining-blog.com/3594-potential-class-action-lawsuit-against-

kncminer/

above news article on knc class action being taken


http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/This-is-how-you-file-a-

complaint/

above complaining to swedish consumer protection agency

http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/Consumer-rights/Right-

to-cancel-a-purchase-Right-of-withdrawal/

above right to cancel 14 days same agency

http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/Consumer-

rights/Defective-goodsComplaint-/

above same agency defective goods policy (plenty of titan neptune probs)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg9195914#msg9195914

another form letter to an agency to look at or use as an example of how

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg9196020#msg9196020

above links to the above also usa Better Business Bureau and world wide one

https://www.bbb.org/

usa better business bureau

http://www.consumersinternational.org/

above consumers international

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/unfair-treatment/unfair-

contract-terms/index_en.htm

above unfair contract terms EU

http://kncclassaction.com/

knc class action being considered (one of many)

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1

above usa FTC federal Trade Commission

http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/off-topic/miners-cafe/64659-poll-in-your-

opinion-when-will-titan-finish-shipping

above missed shipping date knc forum

http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/64717-truth-about-

titan-cubes

above example of titan cube issues

you just need to go on knc forum and look around before stuff is deleted
on how much all this Titan just does not work...

cubes/controllers/will not mine on multiple pools will not mine on fast block

coins ..only works litecoin...just use the forums to find many of the specific

instances...

copy the pages when you do cause I myself expect them to pull the forum as

people get more rilled up and they flush the site
too many details but that is where most of the real info is at on problems

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-111

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-112



above knc news on titan problems


that should keep anyone more then busy

as to myself I'm unsure about the proper method ..I don't think refusing the

unit will help..from their actions so far they would simply hold the unit

hostage if they know you are going after them legally imho

i myself will probably wait get the unit then do all or most of the above like

everyone else after the fact..in that 9 out of 10 of the Titans don't seem to

work in some manner ..most have at least 1 bad cube etc....we likely will have

to play RMA games with KNC and document everything and use the resources above

anyway what i plan on doing getting it in hand see what is broken then do the

consumer protection stuff above...right now if you complain to kurt or to

sales at knc in my experience they just don't reply to you anymore in

email..which could be tough on a RMA in the future or something..so imho
it is not much of a streach if you complain before you get your unit..you may

never see the unit..such as it is

anyway I just have been grabbing these links as they pop up on bitcoin talk

..some may be scams....just be wary of them....others should continue to get

on and say how things are working for them...but get on the swedish miner

forum of bitcoin talk and just keep track also yell in forums for help from

others more up on this or in the process then myself also

if you do want to tip as you suggested feel free to do so ..it is not needed

however in that as long as I made this speel here ..I may as well post it on

bitcoin talk as well

but here is my bitcoin address .. again I just compiled the info so not that

big a deal

14LZGNSwg274baePA7AUBreUAxtRKx3KhK

well off to dump this on bitcoin talk as long as I wrote it all out...I'm sure

others have better info and more links ...swedish miner forum on bitcoin talk

and knc forums is where you will get the most info..be guick on the knc forums

and save the info ...I do expect them to flush their site one of these days

when things get more heated

and again keep track of this thread and knc forums thread ....for the latest info on new legal options
or progress of the above existing options

good luck

Searing

Good work!

FYI
I have just made a complete copy of the whole KNC Forum! I will keep it updated day by day.

[jelin1984]

knc tell


that 3 weeks from now

will delivered all batch 1 titan

[Cablez]

It really is starting to seem to be obvious that this is an endemic chip issue; delayed RMAs, shipping halts and no solid updates with the days ticking by ever faster.  How long would a respin take to complete and who is the fab for the Titan?


Offtopic:  Is it just me or does it seem that hardware prices are just picked out of a hat?  Fancy new miners are always north of $10000 and even the more economical ones are seemingly always priced above what they should make back (sans inc. in currency prices). They should probably be priced in BTC outright as that is what they earn and forgo any exchange rate ties altogether. Dividend stocks are in fiat as that is what they earn, it just makes more sense.  Apologies if you read this and found the early morning rambling, I need coffee.