Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[mwizard]

I doubt it is possible to effectively take a class action in California against a Swedish company unless the defendants has a legal presence in California or the US.  

I would have thought KNC would only worry about actions brought under Swedish law.

This is completely absurd.  Many thousands of European companies have been sued in the Federal Courts of California.  Happens all the time.  If you sell products to Americans, you 'avail yourself' of the laws and courts jurisdiction.  US consumer laws protect US citizens.  You can sell defective dangerous products to Americans and avoid consumer protection laws.  Otherwise, dodgy companies would all just go set up operations is some shit bag country and sell dangerous products competing with companies who sell well designed product in conformance with the laws.  

Why oh why do people believe that Swedish companies are allowed to sell dangerous products to American citizens without having to answer to laws in the US.  That is very funny.

The problem with a class action has nothing to do with KNC being a European company.  

The issue is that KNC have no US office or presence in the US.  Normally class actions are against the US operation of the European company or a distributor.  In the case of KNC there is no US branch or office or distributor.  

[mwizard]

Why oh why do people believe that Swedish companies are allowed to sell dangerous products to American citizens without having to answer to laws in the US.  That is very funny.

Any import of dangerous products into the US are stopped by customs at point of entry into the country, not by restricting what can be brought on the internet.  

There is no US law saying what electrical products can be sold on the Internet by countries outside the US.

The only control on purchases from foreign countries are the import restrictions enforced by customs. These hopefully include restrictions against importing dangerous items.

[coda]

Filed a complaint with the Swedish consumer protection agency.  Feel free to use and modify this to file your own complaint.  Email it to konsumentverket@konsumentverket.se

How to file a Consumer complaint in Sweden:
http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/This-is-how-you-file-a-complaint/

Right to Cancel a purchase within 14 days of receiving it:
http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/Consumer-rights/Right-to-cancel-a-purchase-Right-of-withdrawal/

Defective Goods:
http://www.konsumentverket.se/otherlanguages/English/Consumer-rights/Defective-goodsComplaint-/

Code:

To Whom it May Concern,

I purchased a computer product named "Titan" from Kennemar & Cole AB (https://www.kncminer.com) aka KnCMiner.  

KnC 20nm Sweden AB
Birger Jarlsgatan 33, 5tr
111 45 Stockholm, Sweden
Org number: 556949-2928

The "Titan" product they have shipped to consumers is not functional and poses an extreme fire hazard.

I will now explain why the product is a fire hazard and that the company knows it is a fire hazard and has sold and shipped it to consumers anyhow.

The product is called a "Titan" and it's a specialized computing device.  It receives power from a standard ATX computer power supply such as those sold at any computer store around the world.  The Titan has uses a single "PCI-e" type power connector.  The industry rating of these types of connectors is for a maximum of 75 watts.  The problem occurs when the Titan is turned on and begins working.  Each unit of the Titan uses 245 watts of electricity.  This causes the connector (where it is attached to the Titan unit) to melt and when completely melted, the power supply pins touch each other and a short circuit is created with the potential to cause a fire.

245 watts is way more power than can be safely used with a 75 watt connector.

These devices are not certified by any authority nor do they comply to any standards.  They do not have any UL certifications of any kind.

I purchased this product expecting it to be safe to use and to conform to the national electrical standards and rules of Sweden.  It does not do so whatsoever and is a danger to all consumers.

The company 'KnC' aka "KnCMiner", "Kennemar & Cole AB", has produced similar products in the past that have also caused fires and melted due to their high power consumption, lack of safety features, and non UL listed specifications, parts, and build quality.  They could have revised the product to use two or three connectors and it would have worked safely.

Aside from the safety issues, the product is also defective and does not perform the functions it was advertised to perform. 


I can supply more information about the product.  

I'm attaching a picture of the melted power connector cause by this device.  Luckily I smelled burning plastic and was able to turn off the device before and more damage was caused.

I have been in contact with dozens of other consumers who also purchased this product 'Titan' and have also experienced melting connectors, burning wires, non-functioning devices.  KnC is refusing to honor any refunds.


I would like to return the product for a refund.

Below you will find my original sales receipt.  The product was in production for many months and was finally delivered to me three days ago, on 10/02/2014.

Regards,
<name, address, phone>


<paste your receipt here>

[coda]

for european peoples

http://www.konsumenteuropa.se/

http://www.konsumenteuropa.se/en/topics/buying-goods-and-services/to-file-a-complaint/

http://www.konsumenteuropa.se/en/topics/buying-goods-and-services/dispute-resolution/

http://www.konsumenteuropa.se/en/topics/E-commerce/E-commerce-within-the-EU/your-rights/



there might be something for the rest of the world consumers somewhere

http://www.konsumenteuropa.se/en/Contact-US/

US: https://www.bbb.org/

REST OF THE WORLD: http://www.consumersinternational.org/


i think nobody like to go this way ...
the best thing is knc would accept refund like they did in the past with "goodwill"

[murraypaul]

I doubt it is possible to effectively take a class action in California against a Swedish company unless the defendants has a legal presence in California or the US.  

I would have thought KNC would only worry about actions brought under Swedish law.

This is completely absurd.  Many thousands of European companies have been sued in the Federal Courts of California.  Happens all the time.  If you sell products to Americans, you 'avail yourself' of the laws and courts jurisdiction.  US consumer laws protect US citizens.  You can sell defective dangerous products to Americans and avoid consumer protection laws.  Otherwise, dodgy companies would all just go set up operations is some shit bag country and sell dangerous products competing with companies who sell well designed product in conformance with the laws.  

Why oh why do people believe that Swedish companies are allowed to sell dangerous products to American citizens without having to answer to laws in the US.  That is very funny.

To avail yourself of consumer protection laws, you have to have bought as a consumer.
The T&Cs you agreed to say that you didn't.

[coda]

i don't know if it's really legal to treat someone who buys a product from you as a non consumer
let's the judges say something about it maybe  
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/unfair-treatment/unfair-contract-terms/index_en.htm

in fact i think knc is violating several european laws ...

[s1gs3gv]

Blast from the past: Sam Cole on Lets Talk Bitcoin Oct 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxOHAha7MAk


KNC had good visibility into the manufacturing and production processes. KNC believed it was important to help their customers earn a ROI.

WTF happened to KNC ?

[coda]

Blast from the past: Sam Cole on Lets Talk Bitcoin Oct 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxOHAha7MAk


KNC had good visibility into the manufacturing and production processes. KNC believed it was important to help their customers earn a ROI.

WTF happened to KNC ?

it's like politicians ... saying good things to make people believe in them, have a success
and then screw them later when the time is over ... they have made millions now they can
throw you like a little shit in the toilets

[Meizirkki]

To avail yourself of consumer protection laws, you have to have bought as a consumer.
The T&Cs you agreed to say that you didn't.

The T&C could also say that you are a bird. Agreeing to it wouldn't make you a bird. If you are not running a business, you are a consumer.

To avoid consumer protection laws a company must not take orders from individual customers. Just about every Business-to-business company except KnC acts accordingly. Taking orders from individual customers is simply too risky for any company that wants to avoid consumer protections laws.

So please save some innocent lives and sue KnC for everything they've got before they ship any more of their fire hazard cubes of fail.

[retro72]

KNC Mining pool grows while we continue to wait
Today, 03:48 PM
You can see here the history of the KNC Miner owned pool over the weeks leading up to the release of the Neptune through until today.

Source : http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/...n-network.html

June 1st
6.49%
June 8th
6.14%
June 15h
3.13%
June 22nd
6.35%
June 29th
5.31%
July 6th
5.31%
July 13th
4.11%
July 20th
4.20%
July 27th
3.56%
August 3rd
4.37%
August 10th
3.52%
August 17th
3.56%
August 24th
3.89%
August 31st
2.96%
September 7th
2.85%
September 14th
3.70%
September 21st
3.92%
September 28th
4.64%
October 6th
4.74%

At the beginning of this time period the difficulty was 10,456,000,000, the difficulty is now 35,002,000,000, overall growth of 334%.

The June 1st results (6.49% of approx 80PH) would indicate a hashrate of about 5.2PH

The October 6th results (4.74% of approx 260PH) would indicate a hashrate of 12.3PH

An approximate growth of 7.1PH for the KNC Miner pool over the time period since the Neptune announcement and deliveries began.

Assuming 3.6TH per Neptune, this growth would indicate an additional 1972 Neptunes (7100 / 3.6) that have been added to the private KNC Miner pool over the last four months.

This, while customers are still awaiting delivery of their Neptunes + Bonus Neptunes.

You can see a gradual decline of the % of total hashrate up until late August or early September, this decline is only in relative terms to the total growth of the Bitcoin network. The KNC Mining pool hashrate continued to grow throughout this period. It allows us to pinpoint where they seem to have completely stopped giving a damn about paying customers and started really focusing on themselves.

Here it is, the best evidence I could find to support the accusations that KNC are giving us the shaft.

Thoughts?

Anyone from KNC care to comment on this?

(posted on kncforum by sixbk)

Below  was posted on the KNC forum and it got deleted. Funny that

Report them to the FTC https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#crnt&panel1-1
BFL are getting slammed for mining on customers rigs, I'm sure the FTC would be very interested in what KNC are doing. They have partnerships with Trading standards organisations all over the world, including Sweden. I've just filed a complaint and I'm not even American. The more people complain the faster they'll look into it. I read somewhere it took 300 for them to start investigating BFL.

So only 299 to go  

[dekodoge]

KNC you should accept and refund everybody before it's too late ... !

do you think they listen in here or care, get a lawyer and tool up.

[coda]

KNC you should accept and refund everybody before it's too late ... !

do you think they listen in here or care, get a lawyer and tool up.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/kncminer-issuing-titan-refunds/

don't worry they listen ... maybe they not care but it'll be somebody else who will

[unitedminers]

Does anyone know a working (European) pool for the TinyTitan (firmware 1.04) with 300 MH/s and without tons of rejects?

stratum+tcp://multi.ghash.io:3333 = 0,0144 BTC / day

stratum+tcp://prohashing.com:3333 = 0,0716 BTC / day

stratum+tcp://stratum.nicehash.com:3333 = 0,0371 BTC / day

stratum+tcp://ca.simplemulti.com:3364 = 0,0533 BTC / day

stratum+tcp://yaamp.com:3433 = doesn't work

THX

[zakalwe]

www.kncclassaction.com

I'm in.

[murraypaul]

www.kncclassaction.com

I'm in.

A [single-attorney?] law firm which specialises in DUIs, traffic tickets and immigration/employment issues is going to successfully bring a product-related class-action suit against a non-US corporation?
Good luck. Hope you haven't given them any money.

[dekodoge]

www.kncclassaction.com

I'm in.

A law firm which specialises in DUIs, traffic tickets and immigration/employment issues is going to successfully bring a product-related class-action suit against a non-US corporation?
Good luck. Hope you haven't given them any money.

another long con scam.

[zakalwe]

www.kncclassaction.com

I'm in.

A law firm which specialises in DUIs, traffic tickets and immigration/employment issues is going to successfully bring a product-related class-action suit against a non-US corporation?
Good luck. Hope you haven't given them any money.

Of course not. I'm curiouse to see what happens. And I'm going to contact my embassy.

[Minor Miner]

www.kncclassaction.com

I'm in.

A [single-attorney?] law firm which specialises in DUIs, traffic tickets and immigration/employment issues is going to successfully bring a product-related class-action suit against a non-US corporation?
Good luck. Hope you haven't given them any money.

hmmm.

[AussieHash]

Blast from the past: Sam Cole on Lets Talk Bitcoin Oct 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxOHAha7MAk

KNC had good visibility into the manufacturing and production processes. KNC believed it was important to help their customers earn a ROI.

WTF happened to KNC ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg5876260#msg5876260

[s1gs3gv]

Is the balding oink in the photo Sam Cole ?