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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3045500 times)
btc_uzr
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September 17, 2014, 11:19:35 AM
 #37801

No Scrypt-N or other variants of Scrypt for Titan owners when it ships.
Maybe they realized that with Scrypt-N customers competition could be able to achieve ROI..??

Kurt
Today, 09:45 AM

Quote from: Originally posted by stormagen
The forum has exploded with questions concerning the titan and scrypt-n and you have refused to answed any of them?!!
Will the titan be able to mine scrypt-n out of the box or after a firmware update?
What speed will it hash scrypt-n at?

If you do not have a clue then please say so instead of being rude and just ignoring the questions.

Hi,
The Titan was designed for several variants of the Scrypt algorithm, including Scrypt-N, this however, will not be implemented within the very first firmware revision as our main priority as it stands is to improve the core Titan firmware.

As mentioned in our latest newsletter, the firmware is in continuous development and we do expect to enable the functionality to mine different variants of Scrypt in the near future.

'near future' means forever, when shipping 'soon' means actually 'in some weeks'....

..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
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September 17, 2014, 02:21:06 PM
 #37802

As to building miners for dirt cheap, if KNC's profit margin is similar to the Jupiter series, they're making about 86-89% pure profit on the gear. So it could be done.. but.. the whole thing of they won't do it because they know they can just keep the money to themselves.

I dont think their profit margin is that high with the gear, their secret is to build the machines and then mine with them a couple months before giving to public.

Unable to pre sell to the public at inflated prices anymore, I doubt they can make mining gear at that profit margin again unless they can con more people as they are going private now, which is what the new strategy is I believe with the A series funding round.
What do you think is their profit margin?
I would expect at least 30% of ~25m$ pre-order sold (Batch 1). The NRE of a 28nm ASIC and production cost should run much about 10m$? Batch 2 was then pure profit for them, as R&D has been paid for. I'd expect the marginal cost to be comparable or lower than the Bitmain L1, so a Titan costs 1800$ to produce after R&D.
That said, this is pure speculation, I simply don't know.

The pre-order scams etc. will also damage Bitcoin and the hoped for spike in prices may not happen. At that point it's going to be difficult to make new hardware and profit from that as before, because the marginal increase in performance/watt does not justify the explosion in R&D costs. So from now on it'll be about "cheap", not about "quick to market" (IF they sell any)

I based my figures off of Jupiters batches 1 and 2, where KNC's internal insurance invoiced their value at $1000USD when being shipped back to them, or within their company controls. These figures came out hundreds of pages back. A company won't take a loss on a product in RMA when it can be insured, and would insure it for what their cost would be plus return shipping.

Further examination of the individual components also correlates to that value. BeagleBone value was around $99 back then. Arctic Cooler has remained $35. The other four fans ran around $9. Aluminum casing about $15 at most. Examining those costs:

Beaglebone 1 @ 99
Arctic Cooler 4 @ 35
Arctic Case Fan 4 @ 9
Aluminum Case 1 @ 15
Subtotal: 290
Bulk Discount 15%: 43
Potential Total: 247

Mining boards at their lowest were being sold for $200 I believe, and there was discussion a thousand pages back that the chip costs were likely close to $30 each. So figuring PCB components and the chip costs add up to internal cost of somewhere between $125-$150/ea, speculative pricing but close to real-life costs based on other industries.

If that's the case, 4 mining boards @ $150 = 600. Add on maybe $35 for the controller board.

So now the estimate is at $635+$247=$882. With the remainder on that shipping, which is close to their public original pricing of $150 UPS Air.

That's how I, and others, arrived at an internal KNC cost of $1k per Jupiter for 2013. Honestly, if you think about it, it absolutely makes sense. They crowdfunded their R&D / standup / profit buffers with the very first sale. They didn't have to sell batch 2 to make profit, they were making profit with batch 1. They simply kept the margins high after that, while still giving you guys a break, and it makes it seem like everyone is a winner.

Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.

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September 17, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
 #37803

BFL : shipping in two weeks.
KnC: near future

The Blocks Factory Mining POOL : DGB(sha256d, Skein, Qubit, Groestl & Scrypt), FTC
s1gs3gv
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September 17, 2014, 02:56:03 PM
 #37804

KnC: near future

They're still trying to get the firmware on the Titan working … its shaping up to be another major fail.
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September 17, 2014, 02:59:59 PM
 #37805

BFL : shipping in two weeks.
KnC: near future

Wait, BFL ships stuff anymore?

Whatever happened to the Monarch? That was hilarious. People were like, oh man they'll ship on time this time.. And then they didn't, of course.

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September 17, 2014, 03:12:41 PM
 #37806

Just looking forward to October then, hope kNC will give us some thing special this time. (Take out limitation on Nepy and Tity)  

I don't think KNC is in a cash flow position to do anything special for their customers.
They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.

Remember, people in KNC's part of the world sit in hot sweaty dark rooms and whip each other with willow and birch branches for fun.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.
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September 17, 2014, 03:35:33 PM
 #37807

Remember, people in KNC's part of the world sit in hot sweaty dark rooms and whip each other with willow and birch branches for fun.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.

I've seen some of the girls over there doing the rolling-around stuff naked. I have to admit, it's worth seeing at least once.

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September 17, 2014, 06:05:19 PM
 #37808

Remember, people in KNC's part of the world sit in hot sweaty dark rooms and whip each other with willow and birch branches for fun.
And then they go roll around in the ice and snow naked, drink lots of high proof alcohol, rinse and repeat.

I've seen some of the girls over there doing the rolling-around stuff naked. I have to admit, it's worth seeing at least once.
I'm dying to watch at least once of my life, actually Swedish girl very pretty, top 10 around the world, first plase is Denmark.

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September 17, 2014, 06:56:17 PM
 #37809

I based my figures off of Jupiters batches 1 and 2, where KNC's internal insurance invoiced their value at $1000USD when being shipped back to them, or within their company controls.
[...]
Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.
Yep, the 1000$ marginal cost sounds about right. Not sure how much the ASIC NRE's are, though. If they got 25m$ for the Titan Batch1 they may have spent 10-20m$ on R&D?
Batch2 was pure profit, though.

I don't think KNC is in a cash flow position to do anything special for their customers.
They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.
Well, that doesn't add up when considering the calculation above. Unless...
Did you ever wonder why it says "KnC Sweden 20nm AB"? I'd guess because there are "KnC 28nm AB", "KnC Cloud", "KnC Private Mining", "KnC Holding" etc. The founders kept the 10's of m$ in their holding (or private accounts!) and make sure that any failure in the future doesn't cost them a penny.

The KnC 20nm is probably struggling to meet payments because of the Neptune debacle (first tape out botched etc) and was close to go bankrupt. As the latter is really not pretty both from bad publicity as well as the "annoying" legal investigations KnC tried to avoid the bankruptcy with dubious measures. Such as offering 5%-10% more refund money if the refund is delayed. And start taking Titan pre-orders - which has saved them.

Disclaimer: I don't know any details and all of the above is pure speculation.

BTC 1NoV8NFSB7eiuK2aABFtBTdUdXhbEdG7Ss
LTC LaFyWSfzKY7CKwwmbxhyf8S2iJvfT7JFtL YAC YKKwR5B64Z9ww971J42vEGVPaema623Tz6
poodle63
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September 17, 2014, 07:18:07 PM
 #37810

Any one feel their love today?

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Zelek Uther
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September 17, 2014, 08:48:17 PM
 #37811

I'm not feeling the love... no bonus miner here. Sad

Run a Bitcoin node, support the network.
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September 17, 2014, 08:55:45 PM
 #37812

I based my figures off of Jupiters batches 1 and 2, where KNC's internal insurance invoiced their value at $1000USD when being shipped back to them, or within their company controls.
[...]
Consider how many tens of millions they took home in profit on their tax statement. Their profit margins weren't 30%, they were generously higher.
Yep, the 1000$ marginal cost sounds about right. Not sure how much the ASIC NRE's are, though. If they got 25m$ for the Titan Batch1 they may have spent 10-20m$ on R&D?
Batch2 was pure profit, though.

I don't think KNC is in a cash flow position to do anything special for their customers.
They seem to be struggling. The latest series A won't last them long.
Expect to get the absolute minimum possible from KNC these days, at the very last moment.
Well, that doesn't add up when considering the calculation above. Unless...
Did you ever wonder why it says "KnC Sweden 20nm AB"? I'd guess because there are "KnC 28nm AB", "KnC Cloud", "KnC Private Mining", "KnC Holding" etc. The founders kept the 10's of m$ in their holding (or private accounts!) and make sure that any failure in the future doesn't cost them a penny.

The KnC 20nm is probably struggling to meet payments because of the Neptune debacle (first tape out botched etc) and was close to go bankrupt. As the latter is really not pretty both from bad publicity as well as the "annoying" legal investigations KnC tried to avoid the bankruptcy with dubious measures. Such as offering 5%-10% more refund money if the refund is delayed. And start taking Titan pre-orders - which has saved them.

Disclaimer: I don't know any details and all of the above is pure speculation.

Smart move on KNC part with Titan no refund.  Bitmain coming December too, with Scryot machines 1/3 the price. $5/MH
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September 17, 2014, 10:24:41 PM
 #37813

Well, that doesn't add up when considering the calculation above.

On the contrary, it would explain virtually all of KNC's parsimonious and mean behavior. Why would they go out for a Series A and reduce their equity if they were flush ?
crashoveride54902
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September 18, 2014, 12:27:27 AM
 #37814

Any one feel their love today?

you should feel the love knc is giving you everyday...in the backside w/o lube Grin


BFL : shipping in two weeks.
KnC: near future

Wait, BFL ships stuff anymore?

Whatever happened to the Monarch? That was hilarious. People were like, oh man they'll ship on time this time.. And then they didn't, of course.

monarchs are shipping now...someone had a whole rack of them in their warehouse/dc on picture your miners thread

Dreams of cyprto solving everything is slowly slipping away...Replaced by scams/hacks Sad
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September 18, 2014, 12:30:38 AM
 #37815

copy the pic
poodle63
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September 18, 2014, 12:35:07 AM
 #37816

Stuck wrong hole and shoot on own foot~

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September 18, 2014, 01:06:47 AM
 #37817

Yeah I'd love to see the pictures myself, considering their website says they aren't shipping and you can only find a couple secondhand units on ebay/elsewhere.

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September 18, 2014, 11:38:14 AM
 #37818

Are KNC Titans shipping now ?
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September 18, 2014, 11:45:37 AM
 #37819

Are KNC Titans shipping now ?

Apparently so according to a few people on the Kncminer forums.

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September 18, 2014, 11:51:29 AM
 #37820

Knc fx king smart at business but crooked, they should be straight.

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