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Author Topic: Launching the Antminer L3+, World's Most Powerful and Efficient Litecoin Miner  (Read 284228 times)
usao
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September 07, 2017, 02:32:32 PM
 #2421

I'm not seeing he value in an obsolete ASIC's unit. That is actually the major difference from the GPU. Application specific means more or less a one trick pony. Unless you find a buyer with free electricity and even then you'll not get much for them. My impression is they don't have much "resale" value.  Is that wrong?
From  my experience, the resale on ASIC seems pretty decent. I have bought, mined and resold probably a dozen ASIC miners going back to Zeus days, and have had pretty good luck on the resale side.
My only issue with resale is with ebay. They charge 10% "seller fee", then PayPal tacks on their "fee" for the transaction, and then there's shipping. By the time you are done, you end up paying 15% (more or less) of the total transaction in fees.
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September 07, 2017, 02:34:59 PM
 #2422

I'm not seeing he value in an obsolete ASIC's unit. That is actually the major difference from the GPU. Application specific means more or less a one trick pony. Unless you find a buyer with free electricity and even then you'll not get much for them. My impression is they don't have much "resale" value.  Is that wrong?
From  my experience, the resale on ASIC seems pretty decent. I have bought, mined and resold probably a dozen ASIC miners going back to Zeus days, and have had pretty good luck on the resale side.
My only issue with resale is with ebay. They charge 10% "seller fee", then PayPal tacks on their "fee" for the transaction, and then there's shipping. By the time you are done, you end up paying 15% (more or less) of the total transaction in fees.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes. You'll usually get a nice chunk of change back when you go to upgrade your miners. I couldn't imagine using ebay though, 15% in fees is ridiculous. I'd stay right here and sell on the forum marketplace.
usao
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September 07, 2017, 02:36:22 PM
 #2423

Is it possible to run 4 x L3+ in the same room using 4 "different" outlets?
The question is not about outlets, but about circuits.
Depending on where you live in the world, you have different power capabilities per circuit.
In the US, a typical circuit is 110V @ 15A, or 1.6KW. Given that a single L3+ is rated at over 800W at the wall, trying to run 2 rigs on a single circuit is not recommended.
First, determine what your wattage is at the outlet in question.
Second, determine if that wattage is shared with anything else on the same circuit (a single circuit typically contains multiple outlets).
Divide the available wattage available on that circuit by the rated wall wattage and round down.
That will tell you how many rigs you can run on the circuit.
I'm actually getting nervous now that some people are going to die in a house fire as a result of messing with these servers without knowledge.......I hope they read your post and take it seriously.
The way things are designed, the breaker should simply trip long before any issue with fire arises.
If you overload a circuit it will get hot, but long before it get's too hot (for a fire to occur) the breaker should trip and cut power to the affected circuit.
It's one way to know if you have too many rigs on a circuit, if the breaker trips...
I understand this but there is another devil in the details. These units run constantly and can heat older wires beyond limits. Those wires can and DO catch fire before tripping breakers. That obviously happens inside a wall where it will not be detected until it's too late. Many older structures have tired and stressed wiring.
No doubt there. That's a maintenance issue and should be taken into account by the owner/operator of the rigs in question.
It's certainly possible for a fire to occur, so the above should be taken into account based on where you are mining.
That said, there's the heat issue generated by the miners themselves. If you consider that you are dumping around 1KW (3400 BTU/hr) of heat into a room per rig, and then trying to run multiple in that room, consider the need for ventilation.
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September 07, 2017, 02:37:38 PM
 #2424

I'm not seeing he value in an obsolete ASIC's unit. That is actually the major difference from the GPU. Application specific means more or less a one trick pony. Unless you find a buyer with free electricity and even then you'll not get much for them. My impression is they don't have much "resale" value.  Is that wrong?
From  my experience, the resale on ASIC seems pretty decent. I have bought, mined and resold probably a dozen ASIC miners going back to Zeus days, and have had pretty good luck on the resale side.
My only issue with resale is with ebay. They charge 10% "seller fee", then PayPal tacks on their "fee" for the transaction, and then there's shipping. By the time you are done, you end up paying 15% (more or less) of the total transaction in fees.

Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes. You'll usually get a nice chunk of change back when you go to upgrade your miners. I couldn't imagine using ebay though, 15% in fees is ridiculous. I'd stay right here and sell on the forum marketplace.
"Pipe dream ON"
it would be nice if there was an alternative to eBay which accepted crypto...
"Pipe dream OFF"
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September 07, 2017, 04:42:04 PM
 #2425

There are November batch L3+ miners available at www.eastshore.xyz in case somebody is interested to buy one with a premium cost price.
https://www.eastshore.xyz/shop/antminer-l3-litecoin-miner-250mh-for-scrypt-mining/

Then there is the group buy for the BW-L21 miner that user mindtrip is planning to do.
See his message: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2118409.msg21399034#msg21399034

And then there is also Innosilicon A4+ miner preorder going on, I don't know any specific details like delivery time and price.
http://www.innosilicon.com/html/news/19.html
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1251930.320
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2140874.0


Those are the scrypt miners option available at the moment, as far as I know.

Ryancope123
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September 07, 2017, 05:13:02 PM
 #2426

The global supply for this batch seems so small. If you want to buy l3+, PM me.
I wouldn't even pay $2,280.00 for a unit that will not even ship until after many 1000's of others have shipped and slammed the network. If you want to sell it for what it's worth by December I'll buy it. That would be $1,272.00. PM me. People that are flocking to buy these for $2,280.00 are smoking crack.

I don't understand where your overly dramatic difficulty predictions come from. Do you just say that to try and get a cheaper price on the miners? There's no way anyone is selling you their L3+ for $2280, let alone your ludicrous asking price of $1272.

Look at the difficulty since the end of August when people started receiving and firing up their miners from the August/September batch that people had to pre-order back in June - which was a huge batch iirc. The difficulty didn't even double! There has only been one large batch since then, and two smaller ones. Worst - extremely worst - case scenario is that the difficult doubles from where it's at now, in which case mining with the L3+ would still be insanely profitable relative to any traditional sense of investing. Us miners are spoiled with insane ROI numbers. We shoot for 30% ROI per month when any other form of investment doesn't even see 30% per year.


LTC difficulty is now at 633k. I know that you know that previous to this batch, 3 days ago, Bitmain sold 18k units. All you need to do is look at BTC and you can easily extrapolate the future scenario for Alt Coin mining. Sometime in the near future, you will make $300.00 p/machine per month. Just look at the types of people posting in here. They don't have the slightest clue what they are doing. I spent 30 years trading and constructing institutional hedge strategies in the financial markets for JP Morgan, Merril Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse etc etc. I have a little experience with this type of herd mentality. I was paid very large amounts of money to extract risk from these firm's portfolios. This is like any other business. When all the sheep come pouring in for the "easy money" it portends at least corrective changes. $1,272.00 ludicrous?Huh That's what I paid for the batch I'm currently running. Not "ludicrous" at all. Last month I skipped the D3 batch that went for $2,595.00 and bought into the very next one for $1,600.00. It's all about cost. It's all about value and it's all about being rational. Paying $2,280.00 for the L3+ in the current dynamic, is none of those things.

Lastly, this is a high risk business. There is MUCH more in play here than just those ROI calculators everyone relies so heavily on. In trading,  we have a term called "edge". If you have the "edge", you can survive. If you give up the "edge" you are just meat for those that have it. Buying L3+ for $2,280.00 is absolutely giving up ANY edge. Just trying to help. Take it for what it's worth.

Just help me understand, because for whatever reason I can't. You say you spent 30 years in the finance industry, but I don't understand how $300 profit/machine per month sometime in the near future is bad? $300 profit per month from a $2,280 investment is only just over a 7 month ROI, and that's your worst case scenario when you factor in the fact that you'll be able to get a lot of money back from selling your machines when you upgrade. $300 per month, worst case scenario. I don't at all understand how you would have to be smoking crack to invest in that! Especially if you believe in the future of cryptocurrency, who knows what the best case scenario could be! You come from the financial world, surely you know that a 7 month ROI in any traditional sense of investing is unheard of, no?

I got my October batch for $1,650 each which of course now looks like a good deal compared to the $2,280, but if I wouldn't have gotten my hands on that batch, I would have easily spent $2,280 per machine for this recent batch. Of course all of this is under the assumption that this is the highest risk business that you could probably ever invest in, but I think the "edge" that we have against all of the risk we're taking is what the future of cryptocurrency could be, and where it could go. Everyone is different, but I will gladly accept all of the risks that come with investing in mining for the potential profits. I appreciate your opinion, especially if you have all of that experience in finance, I just don't believe you would have to be smoking crack like you say to spend a few hundred more dollars to get in on this, which only equates to another few weeks of ROI, in the worst case scenario. I look forward to hearing more of what you think on the topic, I'm just not buying into the doomsday scenario is all!

I think the issue is that ROI calculations depend on speculation of future difficulty (and hence earnings) over time.
While you may see $300/month right now, that could change tomorrow, or the next day, etc...
There is no way to predict exact ROI, only estimate it.
Most estimates I have seen include a percentage difficulty increase over time, as is done on the BitcoinWisdom site, but again that only applies to LTC and BTC, as they don't have other coin calculators.
Keep in mind also that the ROI is also dependent on future estimate of coin value, which (while typically climbing of late) can vary up or down.
This is the nature of RISK. It's cannot be accurately predicted, only estimated. Any decisions you make should be based on your assumption of RISK.

That's true, but we're not seeing $300/mo right now. Right now, we're seeing over $800/mo. The difficulty could double and we'd still see more than $300/mo, and that worst case scenario is assuming the price of Bitcoin or Litecoin doesn't rise, which is unlikely. That worst case scenario also doesn't factor in the fact that you can sell your miners when you decide to upgrade for a decent amount of money. Like I said, I'm not buying into the doomsday scenario, I may be blind for say so, but it's just how I feel about crypto in general.

Of course like you say this is the nature of risk, and we cannot accurately predict what will happen 3 months, 6 months, or 12 months from now. How I see it though, I will gladly accept all the potential risks associated for all the potential profits associated.
I'm not seeing he value in an obsolete ASIC's unit. That is actually the major difference from the GPU. Application specific means more or less a one trick pony. Unless you find a buyer with free electricity and even then you'll not get much for them. My impression is they don't have much "resale" value.  Is that wrong?

The resale on ASICS is VERY good at the moment, example - i mined with 1 L3+ for over a month returned ROI and then sold it for 300% purchase cost.

Due to such short supply and huge demand, this will be like this for a long time, i think its a fine line you need to be careful when crossing.

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September 07, 2017, 05:35:32 PM
 #2427

Yes resale value is VERY VERY good. Mine before the next batch and ship it = max profit.
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September 07, 2017, 05:39:09 PM
 #2428

Yea I totally agree that the resale potential on these miners is extremely good, I am now making a second business out of it Smiley my first business is selling gardening supplies (something completely different lol). BUt I am equally passionate about both which is why I think I am so successful Smiley
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September 07, 2017, 06:14:20 PM
 #2429

I sent a wire transfer for last week's order on that next morning, had to file an amendment to the wire the next day because my bank misspelled the beneficiary name.  Angry  I uploaded proof to bitmain, including the amendment on Sept 1.  My bank thinks the wire will go through with the amendment, but as of this morning, they still haven't seen any rejection or confirmation the wire was received.  Bitmain changed my order from valid to expired today.  I just left bitmain a zendesk message explaining and asking them to help me keep the order valid.

I'm posting for advice.  Any chance my order can still go through if the wire transfer gets through late, or once the bitmain order is labeled expired am I already toast?  Is there anything else I can do to salvage it?  Many thanks for any help. Smiley
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September 07, 2017, 06:37:41 PM
 #2430

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol

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September 07, 2017, 06:43:13 PM
 #2431

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol
Ive been using Seasonic supplies.
I have a pair of 1000W PSU's powering my L3+ without issue.

The docs state:
1) The first hashboard needs to be on the same PSU as the controller.
2) You cannot have 2 different PSU's to a single hashboard.

OTher than that there aren't any rules and I found no issues running boards 1&2 on one PSU with boards 3&4 on a second PSU.
In theory, you could use up to 4 PSU's, one for each hashboard.
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September 07, 2017, 06:44:17 PM
 #2432

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol

I have rock solid experience with HP server power supplies.

Sidehack has a power supply kit including breakout board and 10x PCI-E power cables for sale for only 80 USD.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940317.0

See the DPS1200 PSU Kit in that thread.

Antminer L3+ needs roughly 800W power.
This has enough power capacity in both 110-120V (max. 900W) and 220-240V (max. 1200W) mains voltage systems.

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September 07, 2017, 08:09:30 PM
 #2433

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol

I have rock solid experience with HP server power supplies.

Sidehack has a power supply kit including breakout board and 10x PCI-E power cables for sale for only 80 USD.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940317.0

See the DPS1200 PSU Kit in that thread.

Antminer L3+ needs roughly 800W power.
This has enough power capacity in both 110-120V (max. 900W) and 220-240V (max. 1200W) mains voltage systems.


Thank you I read his thread a couple months back. I was looking for it Cheesy

I will get in contact with him, but was more looking to get my hands on one tomorrow or within the next 48 hours already. I will try his kit but from what I read I don't need to really "test" them since everyone is happy already Smiley

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September 07, 2017, 08:18:28 PM
 #2434

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol

I have rock solid experience with HP server power supplies.

Sidehack has a power supply kit including breakout board and 10x PCI-E power cables for sale for only 80 USD.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940317.0

See the DPS1200 PSU Kit in that thread.

Antminer L3+ needs roughly 800W power.
This has enough power capacity in both 110-120V (max. 900W) and 220-240V (max. 1200W) mains voltage systems.

I am unsure about this. I tried using an 850 EVGA SUPERNOVA P2 PSU and apparently it does not work. The problem is that PSU only has 4 connectors for PCI which means you get twice as many in 6-pin connectors, leaving you with the need for one additional connector which requires either a Molex to PCIE or CPU (8pin) to PCIE adapter. I tried the first option and it doesn't work as it does not draw sufficent power, I will give the second option a go and see how it works. But consider this a warning if you'll decide and go for an EVGA power supply less than 1000 watts. I am currently running the 1000 watts variant of the same PSU while looking for a solution and it's running like a charm.
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September 07, 2017, 08:24:19 PM
 #2435

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol

I have rock solid experience with HP server power supplies.

Sidehack has a power supply kit including breakout board and 10x PCI-E power cables for sale for only 80 USD.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=940317.0

See the DPS1200 PSU Kit in that thread.

Antminer L3+ needs roughly 800W power.
This has enough power capacity in both 110-120V (max. 900W) and 220-240V (max. 1200W) mains voltage systems.

I am unsure about this. I tried using an 850 EVGA SUPERNOVA P2 PSU and apparently it does not work. The problem is that PSU only has 4 connectors for PCI which means you get twice as many in 6-pin connectors, leaving you with the need for one additional connector which requires either a Molex to PCIE or CPU (8pin) to PCIE adapter. I tried the first option and it doesn't work as it does not draw sufficent power, I will give the second option a go and see how it works. But consider this a warning if you'll decide and go for an EVGA power supply less than 1000 watts. I am currently running the 1000 watts variant of the same PSU while looking for a solution and it's running like a charm.


Thank you for this info. I would not buy under 1200W. Simply because I want "room" for new generations or reusing it in the future.  Go big or go Home right Cheesy

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trackers
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September 07, 2017, 10:33:43 PM
 #2436

How can someone seriously suggest an S9 is a better buy? If the scrypt miner was just litecoin, mayybe, but there's a whole host of other coins
BenRickert
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September 07, 2017, 10:38:54 PM
 #2437

Yes resale value is VERY VERY good. Mine before the next batch and ship it = max profit.
Well of course assuming you are in the early batches.

You only live once....if you do it right, once is enough.

 Excellent FAQ for Lightning Network https://medium.com/@AudunGulbrands1/lightning-faq-67bd2b957d70
QuintLeo
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September 07, 2017, 11:37:23 PM
 #2438

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol

 I've never used a Bitmain PSU on any ASIC miner.
 Some of my A2s have the "factory" power supply, but 2 of them are running with Seasonic X-1250 gold units and at least one has someone else's 1300 watt Gold unit swapped into it at some point.

 I used to use a mix of X-1250 and EVGA G2 1300 power supplies on the S5 and SP20 miners I had for a while.

 Main issue for the L3+ is that it needs 9 PCI-E 6-pin connectors to power it - not many standard ATX power supplies that have that many, even when they easily have the power capacity to handle a L3+.


I'm no longer legendary just in my own mind!
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Truthchanter
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September 07, 2017, 11:50:48 PM
 #2439

Is here someone who is not using a Bitmain PSU?


I am looking to replace one PSU until I get a new one from Bitmain warranty  Roll Eyes

Any ideas? I have no clues about PSUs other than Bitmains lol

Corsair Hx 1000i (have to use an adapter though 2 molex into 1 pci for the 9th pci slot on the controller board) for an L3+

I think EVGA 1050 (some letter? GS?) is recommended too
Und3rd0g
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September 08, 2017, 03:30:23 AM
 #2440

The global supply for this batch seems so small. If you want to buy l3+, PM me.
I wouldn't even pay $2,280.00 for a unit that will not even ship until after many 1000's of others have shipped and slammed the network. If you want to sell it for what it's worth by December I'll buy it. That would be $1,272.00. PM me. People that are flocking to buy these for $2,280.00 are smoking crack.

I don't understand where your overly dramatic difficulty predictions come from. Do you just say that to try and get a cheaper price on the miners? There's no way anyone is selling you their L3+ for $2280, let alone your ludicrous asking price of $1272.

Look at the difficulty since the end of August when people started receiving and firing up their miners from the August/September batch that people had to pre-order back in June - which was a huge batch iirc. The difficulty didn't even double! There has only been one large batch since then, and two smaller ones. Worst - extremely worst - case scenario is that the difficult doubles from where it's at now, in which case mining with the L3+ would still be insanely profitable relative to any traditional sense of investing. Us miners are spoiled with insane ROI numbers. We shoot for 30% ROI per month when any other form of investment doesn't even see 30% per year.


LTC difficulty is now at 633k. I know that you know that previous to this batch, 3 days ago, Bitmain sold 18k units. All you need to do is look at BTC and you can easily extrapolate the future scenario for Alt Coin mining. Sometime in the near future, you will make $300.00 p/machine per month. Just look at the types of people posting in here. They don't have the slightest clue what they are doing. I spent 30 years trading and constructing institutional hedge strategies in the financial markets for JP Morgan, Merril Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse etc etc. I have a little experience with this type of herd mentality. I was paid very large amounts of money to extract risk from these firm's portfolios. This is like any other business. When all the sheep come pouring in for the "easy money" it portends at least corrective changes. $1,272.00 ludicrous?Huh That's what I paid for the batch I'm currently running. Not "ludicrous" at all. Last month I skipped the D3 batch that went for $2,595.00 and bought into the very next one for $1,600.00. It's all about cost. It's all about value and it's all about being rational. Paying $2,280.00 for the L3+ in the current dynamic, is none of those things.

Lastly, this is a high risk business. There is MUCH more in play here than just those ROI calculators everyone relies so heavily on. In trading,  we have a term called "edge". If you have the "edge", you can survive. If you give up the "edge" you are just meat for those that have it. Buying L3+ for $2,280.00 is absolutely giving up ANY edge. Just trying to help. Take it for what it's worth.

While I don't doubt your assessment here, I must point out that current difficulty takes into account that Bitmain has the miners hashing at their site.  Thus, no dramatic increase as they sell them, rather a lull in the total hashrate as they ship them out.  Just my theory.   
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