[4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool

[GodfatherBond]

I have strange problems:
I have two Coincraft Desk 1TH miners.
Yesterday they dropped both from slush to backup pool.
I tried to reconnect to slush, another miner works fine, but the second one does not send any shares - it worked fine about a week until yesterday. Restart, reset, checked passwords, url etc. but nothing helps. However it mines just fine on Eligius. Very strange.

Sound like the unit have some internal problem? Or is there any recent changes on pool that can cause this?

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[TrytoHex]

I have strange problems:
I have two Coincraft Desk 1TH miners.
Yesterday they dropped both from slush to backup pool.
I tried to reconnect to slush, another miner works fine, but the second one does not send any shares - it worked fine about a week until yesterday. Restart, reset, checked passwords, url etc. but nothing helps. However it mines just fine on Eligius. Very strange.

Sound like the unit have some internal problem? Or is there any recent changes on pool that can cause this?

If you would have just read the last 10 Posts you would have noticed there are more people with the Same problems and nobody got a response yet from support...

[bebooba11]

WTF My miners dropped from slush to backup pool about 10 minutes ago ?!

One of my workers died and isn't coming back online. My 4 other workers are still going.

ditto i just went to like 17000 or whatever on my 555gh miner....an't working
at least in midwest usa (may be me) i re-started miner same...17000 trickle

did slush just muck up?

Searing

Only One of my workers is still offline. I'm going to try creating a new one so it gets created on a working server

Nope, still having issues. Something's gotta be up!

The new worker I created is now working with all of my miners. I was on BTC with my 110 gh/s avalon. which was a complete waste since I didnt even hit .01 btc...I guess I just love wasting electricity.

[Hermonminer]

Things I've discovered about bitcoin mining: a noobs perspective

1. Many (not all) BTC miners are liars hahaha
2. You can make money mining BTC. This is abso#uckinglutely true.
3. Many BTC miners will say that is not true, but...see #1.
4. ROI is not the gold standard for for determining if you actually make money at mining! Caring about or thinking about ROI is just one way of thinking about mining. It is not the only legitimate way. I do not give a ratsa$$ about ROI. That money is gone, gone, gone. It is the cost of doing business. (Except for tax purposes and since many miners are liars, they will not be reporting their earnings to the IRS, so that is moot).
5. The only factors that matter to mining are difficulty as it relates to the amount of time a round MAY take, electricity costs versus BTC reward, BTC/$ exchange rate, and luck.
6. To make real money, go big or don't go at all. Unless you are hobby mining start with at least 1-2 TH/s or have as your goal to build toward this as fast as you can. Go up from there.
7. Read the damn forum posts noobs. Most of the info you need is already there.
8. BTC miners will generally not encourage new miners coming on to a pool because you dilute our rewards to some extent.
9. Mining at other pools will generally not earn you more rewards no matter what their payout formula is (PPlns, pps, dgm, etc.) but please go try them so I can earn more rewards on Slush's when you leave.
10. The BTC mining calculators are all based on certain assumptions that may or may not be true especially the more complex ones. I generally ignore them except to see if my actual earnings match what they say I should be earning (but only as a snapshot of today).
11. I am a BTC miner so I may be lying about all this.

[Trongersoll]

11. I am a BTC miner so I may be lying about all this.

THAT ^ made me laugh. 

[necro_nemesis]

I don't think it's of any significance discouraging new independent miners. Their contributions are a fly on the elephant's back to the likes of KNC. I'd rather see independent miners collectively give those groups a run for their money and keep them in check. Independent miners bring more to the value of BTC than the data centers do who offload BTC for cash flow. As for the pool itself I encourage growth as much as possible since the pool size in itself is irrelevant to the point where we over tax it and it starts to struggle with the workload. If anything new miner's are new interest in BTC value and without growing interest the currency won't grow.

[KNK]

Things I've discovered about bitcoin mining: a noobs perspective

1. Many (not all) BTC miners are liars hahaha
....
11. I am a BTC miner so I may be lying about all this.

I am also a BTC miner and can confirm that you are complete noob and liar 

[FalconFly]

Things I've discovered about bitcoin mining: a noobs perspective

1. Many (not all) BTC miners are liars hahaha
2. You can make money mining BTC. This is abso#uckinglutely true.
3. Many BTC miners will say that is not true, but...see #1.
4. ROI is not the gold standard for for determining if you actually make money at mining! Caring about or thinking about ROI is just one way of thinking about mining. It is not the only legitimate way. I do not give a ratsa$$ about ROI. That money is gone, gone, gone. It is the cost of doing business. (Except for tax purposes and since many miners are liars, they will not be reporting their earnings to the IRS, so that is moot).
5. The only factors that matter to mining are difficulty as it relates to the amount of time a round MAY take, electricity costs versus BTC reward, BTC/$ exchange rate, and luck.
6. To make real money, go big or don't go at all. Unless you are hobby mining start with at least 1-2 TH/s or have as your goal to build toward this as fast as you can. Go up from there.
7. Read the damn forum posts noobs. Most of the info you need is already there.
8. BTC miners will generally not encourage new miners coming on to a pool because you dilute our rewards to some extent.
9. Mining at other pools will generally not earn you more rewards no matter what their payout formula is (PPlns, pps, dgm, etc.) but please go try them so I can earn more rewards on Slush's when you leave.
10. The BTC mining calculators are all based on certain assumptions that may or may not be true especially the more complex ones. I generally ignore them except to see if my actual earnings match what they say I should be earning (but only as a snapshot of today).
11. I am a BTC miner so I may be lying about all this.

Let me share my perspective on that :

1. I'm a miner and honest to the core
2. Hardly at this time, unless you absolutely project a rising BTC valuation to make up for the last months (or somehow managed to build your own highend hardware and operate it at low power costs)
3. Many say that because - it is true (and try to give newbies better options and prevent them to burn money - we've been there ourselves, no need to watch other do the same)
4. ROI is only irrelevant if you don't care about losing money OR are absolutely sure BTC valuation will rise significantly again (most people do and they have little reason not to - only the timeframe remains unknown, could be a long time).
5. the factors that matter to mining are difficulty, efficiency of hardware, cost of aquiring, operating and maintaining hardware and optimum resale time/price, plus how well your hardware regeneration cycle will work out for you....and last but not least BTC valuation itself (little point in mining power-hungry gear, should BTC fall and spend an extended time sub-1$ again, now would it?)
6. to make real money - go for a realistic ROI. Then it doesn't matter if you snatched a small miner for a good price or went for highend gear (all stock gear has about the same overprice level with the smaller ones naturally ending up on the worse end of the scale... in the end that will require resale value to make up for the missing 100% ROI from mining - unless you maybe have free/lowcost electricity, that can make a big difference especially on bigger gear)
7. Yep, often spread across hundreds of posts but within a few weeks it should work. Most important it is to ensure this happens before money is tossed at anything.
8. Miners don't care about new individual miners entering the show - we all know they're raindrops into the ocean. The big guns driving the global hashrate are more of an issue and that's a battle that cannot be won - it's the hardware manufacturers themselves that openly act colluded to drive prices/diff increases at a certain pace. They set the prices to gain maximum profit, mine with their own gear before it's delivered and only deliver limited batches - often with massive delays - in order not to create unwanted mining competition.
9. True, slush is pretty good in terms of rewards and minimum payout, good for small and bigger miners.
10. For as long as the calculators transparently include the empirically most probable diff increases and correctly perform the dynamic calculation, they're ideal. "non complex" calculators that ignore or simplify these variables cannot yield realistic results.
11. I'm a BTC miner, yet I am honest about all this... Won't mine much longer though, my experiment basically is concluded (purchasing directly immediately gave me more BTC than I could have ever mined - at a far lower cost than mining and free of the associated hassles/risks).

[necro_nemesis]

You mine BTC because deep down inside you're a rebel, pirate, scoundrel and a thief.

You buy BTC because you don't need to lose money acting out this fantasy.

[Trongersoll]

I love how people undermine their seemingly logical arguements by using terms like ROI incorrectly. they clearly don't know what the term means.

[Hermonminer]

Been mining since Feb. 9th. Three of my 6 mining rigs have already paid for themselves, another will have paid for itself as soon as I sell the BTCs in my wallet (waiting for a slightly higher price) or can spend that disposable income that I did not have before on something else. Buying and selling BTC means staying glued to the computer all day and is too time consuming. If I wanted to day trade I would day trade stocks. As it is, I sit on my butt minting money or go do something else that is fun or interesting and mint money at the same time.

I get to write off the cost of the miners. They, like all capital equipment, are on a depreciation schedule so the price I paid for them does not stay fixed over the course of time. The calculators I have seen do not seem to account for this and that screws up the ROI formulas. I get to write off some portion of my home office, electricity costs, computer hardware that I use for monitoring or mining, and anything else a creative tax accountant can find. Do the mining calculators account for any of that? Not that I can tell. Sure, I have to pay income tax, so what, it is INCOME and so far it looks pretty good that I will have more income than outgo even if I account for the cost of the miners for ROI. My miners will keep making new money as long as running them does not exceed the cost of the electricity I use and the price of BTC does not fall too low. That too appears to be a long way from happening.   

[eleuthria]

Been mining since Feb. 9th. Three of my 6 mining rigs have already paid for themselves, another will have paid for itself as soon as I sell the BTCs in my wallet (waiting for a slightly higher price) or can spend that disposable income that I did not have before on something else. Buying and selling BTC means staying glued to the computer all day and is too time consuming. If I wanted to day trade I would day trade stocks. As it is, I sit on my butt minting money or go do something else that is fun or interesting and mint money at the same time.

I get to write off the cost of the miners. They, like all capital equipment, are on a depreciation schedule so the price I paid for them does not stay fixed over the course of time. The calculators I have seen do not seem to account for this and that screws up the ROI formulas. I get to write off some portion of my home office, electricity costs, computer hardware that I use for monitoring or mining, and anything else a creative tax accountant can find. Do the mining calculators account for any of that? Not that I can tell. Sure, I have to pay income tax, so what, it is INCOME and so far it looks pretty good that I will have more income than outgo even if I account for the cost of the miners for ROI. My miners will keep making new money as long as running them does not exceed the cost of the electricity I use and the price of BTC does not fall too low. That too appears to be a long way from happening.   

Writing off the cost of equipment doesn't change the ROI.  If your equipment+expenses to mine $4,500 in BTC was $5,000, you still lost money.  Writing off expenses doesn't put money back in your pocket.

[Searing]

Been mining since Feb. 9th. Three of my 6 mining rigs have already paid for themselves, another will have paid for itself as soon as I sell the BTCs in my wallet (waiting for a slightly higher price) or can spend that disposable income that I did not have before on something else. Buying and selling BTC means staying glued to the computer all day and is too time consuming. If I wanted to day trade I would day trade stocks. As it is, I sit on my butt minting money or go do something else that is fun or interesting and mint money at the same time.

I get to write off the cost of the miners. They, like all capital equipment, are on a depreciation schedule so the price I paid for them does not stay fixed over the course of time. The calculators I have seen do not seem to account for this and that screws up the ROI formulas. I get to write off some portion of my home office, electricity costs, computer hardware that I use for monitoring or mining, and anything else a creative tax accountant can find. Do the mining calculators account for any of that? Not that I can tell. Sure, I have to pay income tax, so what, it is INCOME and so far it looks pretty good that I will have more income than outgo even if I account for the cost of the miners for ROI. My miners will keep making new money as long as running them does not exceed the cost of the electricity I use and the price of BTC does not fall too low. That too appears to be a long way from happening.  

Writing off the cost of equipment doesn't change the ROI.  If your equipment+expenses to mine $4,500 in BTC was $5,000, you still lost money.  Writing off expenses doesn't put money back in your pocket.

yeah it does get me back to "just the equipment" you will always likely 'eat that" may recoup the rest of this
silliness under current IRS rules..my CPA lady basically said "Congradulatoins you are now officially a 'Farmer"
anyway can get some back....if btc goes the route of beanie babies..with the whole home office/equip etc IRS stuff...
which in the USA with IRS screwed likely to be overruled rules is something (a vain hope of btc price rising someday)

as screwed as  thought I was hey its something...myself I showed 16k profit....my taxes on gross would have been 4K...and if I sold the coin before 1yr and 1day (ie property) I'm speculating its 43% capital gains if i wait more then 1yr 1 day it is 20% on gains...and of course mining now in the USA you have to have your 25% gross income added ..ie the above 4k...so we are so screwed..of course now with IRS rules here and China I now am more clear on why BTC is 450 bucks or so...ie everyone HAS TO HOLD or at least I do

If you are a large miner operation in the USA and sell BTC to USD daily you get around these capital gains problems....

anyway breaks because of new business etc..showed a profit even and equip taken off etc I owed 550 bucks

I'll take that and run.....with it (IRS scares the crap out of me) and I'm also depreciating the equip i think it is 5yrs in future

lastly ....I was stupid (I admit it) got a Titan (no refunds) (sigh boneheaded likely) well w/o the Titan equip this year I would have owed another 2.2k for taxes (total like 2.75k or so)....so in the feeble excuse of my mind..the Titan only cost me what 8k or so? (I know grasping at straws)

note: if you START a new business the first year you get lots and lots of leeway from IRS...I guess that make sense the IRS wants a business to succeed so they can get 25% off gross income from years of service in the future

but yeah original investment equip etc is prob as low as you can go assuming you could? write off as home business/eguip/etc and everything else...

er also capital losses are not limited to 3k a year personal...the CPA lady says if everything tanks I can write ALL OF IT OFF...

again in the hole but a lot shallower then I thought

imho this is what the CPA lady set up

but yeah still at a loss likely....

Searing

[desired_username]

6. To make real money, go big or don't go at all. Unless you are hobby mining start with at least 1-2 TH/s or have as your goal to build toward this as fast as you can. Go up from there.

This is just incorrect. You are restricted by the technology available to you. No matter how many miners you buy, it'll need the same time to break even.

[Trongersoll]

6. To make real money, go big or don't go at all. Unless you are hobby mining start with at least 1-2 TH/s or have as your goal to build toward this as fast as you can. Go up from there.

This is just incorrect. You are restricted by the technology available to you. No matter how many miners you buy, it'll need the same time to break even.

yeah, I don't know where these people think economies of scale are coming from.

[STT]

Its there to a small extent in that some hardware and fixed costs can be shared between your various miners.

The big miners will be limited companies, they can afford to take the risks.   They can write off losses against profits across tax years.

[Hermonminer]

I found this on the Internet so we know it is true.

My comment: If ROI has as one of its features the accounting of all expenses against the cost of equipment (just one kind of ROI, there are others) and that accounting results in the decrease of taxable income the only place to acknowledge t hat decrease of taxable income is as a savings of real money, then "writing off" (depreciation) expenses certainly does change the ROI.. The reduction in income tax goes directly to the bottom line. I keep more of my earned income since i am not paying a portion of that in taxes that i otherwise would pay without the depreciation of expenses. How can that not affect ROI?

What are the effects of depreciation?
The depreciation of assets such as equipment, buildings, furnishing, trucks, etc. causes a corporation's asset amounts, net income, and stockholders' equity to decrease. This occurs through an accounting adjusting entry in which the account Depreciation Expense is debited and the contra asset account Accumulated Depreciation is credited.

The amount of the annual depreciation that is reported on the financial statements is an estimate based on the asset's 1) cost, 2) estimated salvage value, and 3) useful life. Depreciation should be thought of as an allocation of the asset's cost to expense (and not as a valuation technique). In other words, the accountant is matching the cost of the asset to the periods in which revenues are generated from the asset.

The amount of the annual depreciation reported on the U.S. income tax return is based on the tax regulations. Since depreciation is a deductible expense for income tax purposes, the corporation's taxable income (and associated tax payments) will be reduced by its tax depreciation expense. (In any one year, the depreciation expense for taxes will likely be different from the amount reported on the financial statements.)

It should be noted that depreciation is viewed as a noncash expense. That is, the corporation's cash balance is not changed by the annual depreciation entry. (Often the corporation's cash is reduced for the asset's entire cost at the time the asset is acquired.)

[Hermonminer]

Further explanation of ROI and why it is not a factor in BTC mining since I am not selling my equipment and can realize no gain or loss until i do sell the mining equipment -- again, this is just one way of understanding ROI.

Return on investment (ROI) is a financial ratio intended to measure the benefit obtained from an investment. Time is usually of the essence in this measurement because it takes time for an investment to realize a benefit. An ROI calculation can be illustrated by the purchase and subsequent sale of a house. Let us assume a cash purchase of a residence for $100,000. The house is held for 10 years and is then sold for $150,000; during its 10 years of ownership, maintenance costs have been $1,000 per year, so that the net sales value is $140,000. This sum, less the purchase price, nets out to $40,000. That $40,000 divided by the purchase price produces 0.4 or 40 percent. The ROI of this transaction has therefore been 40 percent. This elaborate example is presented with a purpose. ROIs are typically calculated in different ways. In this example, for instance, the owner may have rented the house for $200 per month and realized a 10-year income stream of $24,000 as well. If that income is factored in, the net benefit will be $64,000 rather than $40,000, and the ROI will be 64 percent.

The general rule to keep in mind is that ROI is the ratio produced when all gains from a transaction, less the costs associated with that transaction, are divided by the initial investment. The most common use of ROI is to assess the profitability of a company (or an operation within a company) based on investment. There are other measures of profitability—as a percent of sales, for instance, or as a percent of total assets used. ROI is of special interest to those who put their money into stocks or invest their savings into their own business: they have different choices available, and ROI can help to guide them to where to put their money.

ALTERNATIVE WAYS OF CALCULATING ROI

The general formula for computing the ROI of a business is to divide the company's net income for a period by its invested capital. But the term "invested capital" does not have a universally or uniformly accepted definition. It is sometimes defined as net work or owners' equity. Other definitions include the company's long-term debt on the principle that, for operational purposes, money derived from debt is equivalent to paid-in capital. Barron's Dictionary of Finance and Investment Terms (1985), for instance, includes long-term debt in its definition of "return on invested capital," which it uses synonymously with ROI. When the company has no long-term debt, the measure becomes Return on Equity. MSN Money uses the same definition as Barron's and showed, in mid-2006, that the average return on capital (ROI including long-term debt) of the S&P 500 companies was 7.9 percent. Return on equity was 12.4 percent.

The small business can, thus, calculate its ROI simply by dividing its after-tax income by its net worth (the residue after total liabilities are deducted from total assets on the balance sheet) or can use net worth plus long-term debt. Consistency in the use of the formula is, of course, advisable. When asked by a lender or investor for the company's ROI, the owner might be well advised to find out the party's own definition. ROI will be lower if long-term debt is present.

ROI calculations are also typically employed to monitor the performance of divisions or of product lines within a company. The approaches used tend to be varied, but a common form of measurement is to use operating income for the division (income before taxes) as the "gain" and a composite measure to represent investment—funds expended on behalf of the division's operations including the depreciated value of capital equipment, the value of inventories carried, and the net value of receivables less payables. When all divisions are measured the same way, comparisons are possible across the board.

ROI can also be used to evaluate a proposed investment in new equipment by dividing the increase in profit attributable to the new equipment by the increase in invested capital needed to acquire it. For example, a small business may be able to save $5,000 in operating expenses (and thus raise profit by the same amount) by spending $25,000 on a piece of new equipment. This yields an ROI of $5,000 divided by $25,000 or 20 percent. If this figure is higher than the company's cost of capital (the interest paid on debt and the dividends paid to investors) prior to the investment, and no better investment opportunities exist for those funds, it may make sense to purchase the equipment.

In addition to the various uses ROI holds for small business managers, it is routinely used by investors in the stock market to compare the performance of different companies and by people buying and selling companies in merger and acquisition activity.

[BoogieMan82]

I am hating and loving this daily rollercoaster of luck.  160% one day to a 20+ hour block. 

[TheDundalkMiner]

I am hating and loving this daily rollercoaster of luck.  160% one day to a 20+ hour block. 

No kidding! 23+ hours, 3.5 hours, <2 hours!

That's where the averages come in I guess.

Onward!