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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3931776 times)
eleuthria
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June 26, 2014, 03:20:38 AM
 #17081

Is there any reason to not set the payout threshold to the minimum amount?

Pay less transaction fees

I'm confused. Isn't it a 2% fee?

If you're charged 2% on a $100 it's $2.00

If you have two transactions of $ 50 each each charge is $1.00 thus the same amount.



Not having read the entire conversation, I think they are talking about bitcoin network transaction fees, not pool fees. So two tranaction would each cost (hence 2X transaction fees).

Aren't transaction fees charged to the sender anyway? These would be operational costs for slush coming out of his income (2% fees) wouldn't they?

Yes, slush will have to pay transaction fees for your payouts.  However, when you try to spend your minimum payout coins, you too will be paying fees.

Bitcoin network fees are based on coin age and the size of your transaction.  Having lots of small inputs will end up costing you more in fees than a few larger inputs.  As a matter of fact, sufficiently large inputs are typically spendable with no fee while still having very fast confirmation times because the transaction will be less than 1 KB and have a high priority due to the number of confirmations on a single large input (meaning it will have very high "age" as part of the calculation for whether a transaction is spam).

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kkurtmann
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June 26, 2014, 06:35:12 AM
 #17082

Is there any reason to not set the payout threshold to the minimum amount?

Pay less transaction fees

I'm confused. Isn't it a 2% fee?

If you're charged 2% on a $100 it's $2.00

If you have two transactions of $ 50 each each charge is $1.00 thus the same amount.



Not having read the entire conversation, I think they are talking about bitcoin network transaction fees, not pool fees. So two tranaction would each cost (hence 2X transaction fees).

Aren't transaction fees charged to the sender anyway? These would be operational costs for slush coming out of his income (2% fees) wouldn't they?

Yes, slush will have to pay transaction fees for your payouts.  However, when you try to spend your minimum payout coins, you too will be paying fees.

Bitcoin network fees are based on coin age and the size of your transaction.  Having lots of small inputs will end up costing you more in fees than a few larger inputs.  As a matter of fact, sufficiently large inputs are typically spendable with no fee while still having very fast confirmation times because the transaction will be less than 1 KB and have a high priority due to the number of confirmations on a single large input (meaning it will have very high "age" as part of the calculation for whether a transaction is spam).


this is why I get larger payouts. I spend most of my BTC and have never paid fees.

https://www.buytrezor.com?a=55c37b866c11   well sir, I like it!
psahx
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June 26, 2014, 07:05:39 AM
 #17083

this is why I get larger payouts. I spend most of my BTC and have never paid fees.

Can you please explain on an example, how exactly you do that?
Mentalfloss
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June 26, 2014, 12:09:15 PM
 #17084

WTF? Diff Increase 30%?
some more such increases and i have to sell my S1 Antminers Sad
damn electricity prices.



dude! haven't you seen what is still to be delivered? network hash rate will probably double by the end of summer.

I retired 18 Erupter Blades a few weeks ago and my S1's will no longer be profitable soon as well. The blades were running since September of last year and did well, the S1's covered their cost and just a little over. It makes me wonder how the guys who spent >$2,000 on terrahash units will be doing in a couple of months, do you think they'll manage to recover 50% of cost before they are fully depreciated?
66tbird
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June 26, 2014, 07:29:14 PM
 #17085

WTF? Diff Increase 30%?
some more such increases and i have to sell my S1 Antminers Sad
damn electricity prices.



dude! haven't you seen what is still to be delivered? network hash rate will probably double by the end of summer.

I retired 18 Erupter Blades a few weeks ago and my S1's will no longer be profitable soon as well. The blades were running since September of last year and did well, the S1's covered their cost and just a little over. It makes me wonder how the guys who spent >$2,000 on terrahash units will be doing in a couple of months, do you think they'll manage to recover 50% of cost before they are fully depreciated?

50% if I'm lucky, and I've got free power.  IMHO the numbers went bad two jumps ago. Even an S2 upgrade to 2Th/s at < 1 BTC won't ROI. The boat done sailed on home mining as far as straight profit goes. Even the equipment flip is looking shaky to me.
rupy
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June 26, 2014, 08:29:37 PM
 #17086

I have not searched the thread, but what about 2 levels of login, I'm really tired of having to relogin about 10 times per week just to see my miner status with captcha and all!

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kkurtmann
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June 26, 2014, 09:11:10 PM
 #17087

this is why I get larger payouts. I spend most of my BTC and have never paid fees.

Can you please explain on an example, how exactly you do that?


I set my payout to 1 BTC, I use to get 4 per month now I get two. when it goes down to 1 per month I may set the threshold to .5 BTC if I don't upgrade my hardware. when I go to spend those BTC, I do so with no fees. I don't know what kind of example you are looking for.

https://www.buytrezor.com?a=55c37b866c11   well sir, I like it!
kkurtmann
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June 26, 2014, 09:17:31 PM
 #17088

WTF? Diff Increase 30%?
some more such increases and i have to sell my S1 Antminers Sad
damn electricity prices.



dude! haven't you seen what is still to be delivered? network hash rate will probably double by the end of summer.

I retired 18 Erupter Blades a few weeks ago and my S1's will no longer be profitable soon as well. The blades were running since September of last year and did well, the S1's covered their cost and just a little over. It makes me wonder how the guys who spent >$2,000 on terrahash units will be doing in a couple of months, do you think they'll manage to recover 50% of cost before they are fully depreciated?

I guess I was lucky in that I prepaid for a Cointerra TMIV 1.6 TH/s back in November at the all time high, so that $6,000.00 machine only cost me just a little over 6 BTC including shipping. I received the machine at the end of March, so the machine was well paid for including the used electricity by the beginning of June with a little profit as well and it still is quite profitable consuming only $180.00 of electricity per month and netting, at the new higher diff, 1.8 BTC per month. I must be one of the lucky ones. Smiley

https://www.buytrezor.com?a=55c37b866c11   well sir, I like it!
Franklin16422
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June 26, 2014, 10:18:38 PM
 #17089

WTF? Diff Increase 30%?
some more such increases and i have to sell my S1 Antminers Sad
damn electricity prices.



dude! haven't you seen what is still to be delivered? network hash rate will probably double by the end of summer.

I retired 18 Erupter Blades a few weeks ago and my S1's will no longer be profitable soon as well. The blades were running since September of last year and did well, the S1's covered their cost and just a little over. It makes me wonder how the guys who spent >$2,000 on terrahash units will be doing in a couple of months, do you think they'll manage to recover 50% of cost before they are fully depreciated?

Are you looking to sell any of them? Electricity doesn't cost me a thing so I might be interested.
retrojka
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June 26, 2014, 11:17:33 PM
 #17090

WTF? Diff Increase 30%?
some more such increases and i have to sell my S1 Antminers Sad
damn electricity prices.



dude! haven't you seen what is still to be delivered? network hash rate will probably double by the end of summer.

I retired 18 Erupter Blades a few weeks ago and my S1's will no longer be profitable soon as well. The blades were running since September of last year and did well, the S1's covered their cost and just a little over. It makes me wonder how the guys who spent >$2,000 on terrahash units will be doing in a couple of months, do you think they'll manage to recover 50% of cost before they are fully depreciated?

Are you looking to sell any of them? Electricity doesn't cost me a thing so I might be interested.

I'm looking to sell my 2 s1 units and my 760GH asic mining rig
psahx
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June 27, 2014, 03:55:28 AM
 #17091

I set my payout to 1 BTC, I use to get 4 per month now I get two. when it goes down to 1 per month I may set the threshold to .5 BTC if I don't upgrade my hardware. when I go to spend those BTC, I do so with no fees. I don't know what kind of example you are looking for.

I just wanna know, how you manage to transfer BTC, without paying fees. Lets assume I have 1 BTC, which I received from my pool with one single transaction. What do I do (beside changing transaction fee to 0 in the wallet settings), to transfer 0.5 BTC without paying a fee? Will this be confirmed? When?

These questions bother me a lot, cause the way I understood the TX fee process, is that miners choose which TX to include in their blocks. And if someone is not paying the fee, the TX might not be confirmed at all...

Thank you.
eleuthria
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June 27, 2014, 04:50:11 AM
 #17092

I set my payout to 1 BTC, I use to get 4 per month now I get two. when it goes down to 1 per month I may set the threshold to .5 BTC if I don't upgrade my hardware. when I go to spend those BTC, I do so with no fees. I don't know what kind of example you are looking for.

I just wanna know, how you manage to transfer BTC, without paying fees. Lets assume I have 1 BTC, which I received from my pool with one single transaction. What do I do (beside changing transaction fee to 0 in the wallet settings), to transfer 0.5 BTC without paying a fee? Will this be confirmed? When?

These questions bother me a lot, cause the way I understood the TX fee process, is that miners choose which TX to include in their blocks. And if someone is not paying the fee, the TX might not be confirmed at all...

Thank you.

When you try to send coins, you do so by picking inputs (payments you've received) which are equal to or greater than the amount you want to send.  The extra amount is sent back as change to yourself, and sometimes a piece of your inputs are used to pay a transaction fee.

The need to pay a transaction fee is based on the priority of your transaction.  This is determined by the "coin age" of your inputs.  Generally, "1 coin day" worth of age is high enough to avoid fees, as long as the transaction isn't huge.  A "coin day" would be 1 BTC with 144 confirmations, which is the target number of blocks in an average day.  If your input is 0.5 BTC, it would need 288 confirmations.  If it's 0.1 BTC, 1440 confirmations.

There's a few other caveats to a "no fee" default transaction.  These are:  All the outputs are at least 0.01 BTC and the transaction is under 1 KB in size.  Both of these are fairly easy to meet as long as your wallet isn't full of small inputs.

More detail is included here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees


Keep in mind that these are the default rules.  There's a few other things that can create delays, such as other similar "qualified free transactions" with a higher priority than yours.  By default bitcoind only allocates a specific amount (17 KB IIRC) to processing no-fee + high priority transactions.

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mstrongbow
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June 27, 2014, 05:22:41 AM
 #17093

I set my payout to 1 BTC, I use to get 4 per month now I get two. when it goes down to 1 per month I may set the threshold to .5 BTC if I don't upgrade my hardware. when I go to spend those BTC, I do so with no fees. I don't know what kind of example you are looking for.

I just wanna know, how you manage to transfer BTC, without paying fees. Lets assume I have 1 BTC, which I received from my pool with one single transaction. What do I do (beside changing transaction fee to 0 in the wallet settings), to transfer 0.5 BTC without paying a fee? Will this be confirmed? When?

These questions bother me a lot, cause the way I understood the TX fee process, is that miners choose which TX to include in their blocks. And if someone is not paying the fee, the TX might not be confirmed at all...

Thank you.

When you try to send coins, you do so by picking inputs (payments you've received) which are equal to or greater than the amount you want to send.  The extra amount is sent back as change to yourself, and sometimes a piece of your inputs are used to pay a transaction fee.

The need to pay a transaction fee is based on the priority of your transaction.  This is determined by the "coin age" of your inputs.  Generally, "1 coin day" worth of age is high enough to avoid fees, as long as the transaction isn't huge.  A "coin day" would be 1 BTC with 144 confirmations, which is the target number of blocks in an average day.  If your input is 0.5 BTC, it would need 288 confirmations.  If it's 0.1 BTC, 1440 confirmations.

There's a few other caveats to a "no fee" default transaction.  These are:  All the outputs are at least 0.01 BTC and the transaction is under 1 KB in size.  Both of these are fairly easy to meet as long as your wallet isn't full of small inputs.

More detail is included here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees


Keep in mind that these are the default rules.  There's a few other things that can create delays, such as other similar "qualified free transactions" with a higher priority than yours.  By default bitcoind only allocates a specific amount (17 KB IIRC) to processing no-fee + high priority transactions.

Good info to know! Thanks for posting this  Grin

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psahx
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June 27, 2014, 05:24:05 AM
 #17094

When you try to send coins, you do so by picking inputs (payments you've received) which are equal to or greater than the amount you want to send.  The extra amount is sent back as change to yourself, and sometimes a piece of your inputs are used to pay a transaction fee.

The need to pay a transaction fee is based on the priority of your transaction.  This is determined by the "coin age" of your inputs.  Generally, "1 coin day" worth of age is high enough to avoid fees, as long as the transaction isn't huge.  A "coin day" would be 1 BTC with 144 confirmations, which is the target number of blocks in an average day.  If your input is 0.5 BTC, it would need 288 confirmations.  If it's 0.1 BTC, 1440 confirmations.

There's a few other caveats to a "no fee" default transaction.  These are:  All the outputs are at least 0.01 BTC and the transaction is under 1 KB in size.  Both of these are fairly easy to meet as long as your wallet isn't full of small inputs.

More detail is included here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees


Keep in mind that these are the default rules.  There's a few other things that can create delays, such as other similar "qualified free transactions" with a higher priority than yours.  By default bitcoind only allocates a specific amount (17 KB IIRC) to processing no-fee + high priority transactions.

Thank you so much!!!

It makes lot of sense now to me. Is there a wallet software, that will "show" which coins are qualifying for a fee free transaction?
eleuthria
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June 27, 2014, 05:58:28 AM
 #17095

Thank you so much!!!

It makes lot of sense now to me. Is there a wallet software, that will "show" which coins are qualifying for a fee free transaction?

I'm having trouble remembering if bitcoind/bitcoin-qt prioritized older coins (high coin age) or fewest inputs (least tx size).  I don't THINK it will automatically figure out the way to make one qualify for no fee.

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with 3rd party wallets to identify which ones (if any) will let you pick which inputs to use for making your transaction, or if any of them have been designed to attempt to prioritize making a transaction qualify for no-fee.

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psahx
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June 27, 2014, 06:16:59 AM
 #17096

Thank you!
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June 27, 2014, 03:04:25 PM
 #17097

If the difficulty goes up and u have 900 gh and receive .01 as reward per block found does the reward for your work drop as the difficulty goes up?
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June 27, 2014, 05:07:55 PM
 #17098

If the difficulty goes up and u have 900 gh and receive .01 as reward per block found does the reward for your work drop as the difficulty goes up?

Correct. That is why a cryptocurrency miner must continually increase their hashrate

Please explain where my stupidity is misguided. My impression was that if the pool hashrate did not change, but the difficulty went up (due to the target number of blocks "found" occured earlier than the target time) that your "reward" per block would not change, but the number of blocks the pool would resolve would be lower due to the increased difficulty, thereby reducing your "daily reward". That being said, the reason that the Cryptocurrency miner would have to continually increase their hashrate (buy more equipment or OC their current stock) would be to increase the pool hashrate such that the number of blocks "found" by the pool would increase to the point where the "Number of blocks found" x "the reduced reward$" would equal the previously established "Daily reward", thereby maintaining the status quo. Further detailed explaination is anticipated with great eagerness!
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June 27, 2014, 05:19:42 PM
 #17099

If the difficulty goes up and u have 900 gh and receive .01 as reward per block found does the reward for your work drop as the difficulty goes up?

Correct. That is why a cryptocurrency miner must continually increase their hashrate

Please explain where my stupidity is misguided. My impression was that if the pool hashrate did not change, but the difficulty went up (due to the target number of blocks "found" occured earlier than the target time) that your "reward" per block would not change, but the number of blocks the pool would resolve would be lower due to the increased difficulty, thereby reducing your "daily reward". That being said, the reason that the Cryptocurrency miner would have to continually increase their hashrate (buy more equipment or OC their current stock) would be to increase the pool hashrate such that the number of blocks "found" by the pool would increase to the point where the "Number of blocks found" x "the reduced reward$" would equal the previously established "Daily reward", thereby maintaining the status quo. Further detailed explaination is anticipated with great eagerness!

If your hash rate stays the same but the pool hash rate goes up then - your reward per round goes down

If slush's pool hash rate remains the same but the overall network hash rate goes up - your reward remains the same but slush finds less blocks

If your hash rate, the pool hash rate and the network hash rate ALL remain the same, but difficulty goes up - your reward remains the same but slush finds less block...

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June 27, 2014, 05:22:40 PM
 #17100

If the difficulty goes up and u have 900 gh and receive .01 as reward per block found does the reward for your work drop as the difficulty goes up?

Correct. That is why a cryptocurrency miner must continually increase their hashrate

Not correct, increasing difficulty will not alter your slush reward per round - just makes blocks harder to find and hence you find them less often...

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