[4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool

[Moria843]

Here's what pisses me off:

Bitmain says the following regarding their S4, "Power line not included. You may look for one line with no less than 16A in your local market."

Well, I've searched the WORLD WIDE WEB for a C14 Power cord and cannot find one rated higher than 15 amps.

WTF?

Pretty sure they made a typo and meant 16Awg. If you're running on 240v you need an 18AWG cord, ND if you're running 120v use a 14AWG cord.

I bought this one:

  Amazon.com: Tripp Lite Heavy Duty Power Cord, 16A,14AWG (NEMA 5-15P to IEC-320-C15) 8-ft.(P019-008): Electronics
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091F8GP6/#

It's a replacement for a heavy duty server room style UPS.  When i got it, the packing slip said 16A but the packaging the cord was in said 15A.  Anyway until I received that my S4 ran fine for 2 days with a standard el-cheap-o 10A PC power cord that I had laying around in a box in my closet, so I wouldn't stress about it.

I have seen the one you purchased on Amazon.  It is a kettle cord.  A C-15 made to fit a C-16 connector.  It is used for higher amperage appliances.  It also has a valley in the C16 connect which does not allow a C-13 cord to plug into it.  However, a C-15 or C1-3 cord can plug into a C-14 connect.  The S4 has a C-14 connect.  I'm just going to purchase Trip-Lite 14 AWG C13 10 feet cord for the S4.  Uses the same gauge wire as the Trip-Lite C-15 8 feet cord you purchased from Amazon.

Thanks for your description.

David

Something else yall need to remember is the length of the cord.  A 10 ft cord will get hotter and pull more amps than a 3 foot cord.  All my miner power cables are 3 ft or less with an iso bar behind them.

JT

Actually given the same load attached to a cable, the longer the cable, the more the resistance, the greater the voltage drop across the cable (lost as heat), but the current drops. Since current drops, an infinitely long cable would have all the voltage drop but no current and would be cool.

[dmwardjr]

Here's what pisses me off:

Bitmain says the following regarding their S4, "Power line not included. You may look for one line with no less than 16A in your local market."

Well, I've searched the WORLD WIDE WEB for a C14 Power cord and cannot find one rated higher than 15 amps.

WTF?

Pretty sure they made a typo and meant 16Awg. If you're running on 240v you need an 18AWG cord, ND if you're running 120v use a 14AWG cord.

I bought this one:

  Amazon.com: Tripp Lite Heavy Duty Power Cord, 16A,14AWG (NEMA 5-15P to IEC-320-C15) 8-ft.(P019-008): Electronics
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091F8GP6/#

It's a replacement for a heavy duty server room style UPS.  When i got it, the packing slip said 16A but the packaging the cord was in said 15A.  Anyway until I received that my S4 ran fine for 2 days with a standard el-cheap-o 10A PC power cord that I had laying around in a box in my closet, so I wouldn't stress about it.

I have seen the one you purchased on Amazon.  It is a kettle cord.  A C-15 made to fit a C-16 connector.  It is used for higher amperage appliances.  It also has a valley in the C16 connect which does not allow a C-13 cord to plug into it.  However, a C-15 or C1-3 cord can plug into a C-14 connect.  The S4 has a C-14 connect.  I'm just going to purchase Trip-Lite 14 AWG C13 10 feet cord for the S4.  Uses the same gauge wire as the Trip-Lite C-15 8 feet cord you purchased from Amazon.

Thanks for your description.

David

Something else yall need to remember is the length of the cord.  A 10 ft cord will get hotter and pull more amps than a 3 foot cord.  All my miner power cables are 3 ft or less with an iso bar behind them.

JT

There isn't that much more resistance in a 10 feet cord versus a 3 foot cord; even if we were talking about mili-amps.  Since we are talking about "amps" and not "mili-amps," the amount of resistance in a 10 feet cord versus a 3 feet cord is irrelevant.  Even if we were talking about mili-amps, the amount of resistance in 10 feet of 14 AWG cable versus 3 feet of 14 AWG cable isn't much difference to amount to anything.

Wire Gauge Resistance per foot

4   .000292
6   .000465
8   .000739
10  .00118
12  .00187
14  .00297
16  .00473
18  .00751
20  .0119
22  .0190
24  .0302
26  .0480
28  .0764

3 Feet of 14 gauge (AWG) [.00297 x 3] = .00891 Ohms

10 Feet of 14 gauge (AWG) [.00297 x 10] = .02970 Ohms

The gauge would be more important than the length in this particular case.  That is my opinion.  This is why I would rather have 14 AWG C-13 Cord rather than 16 AWG (Average Wire Gauge) C-13 Cord.

[sjc1490]

Unfortunately, bitmain said (in this thread I think) that the upgrade kits have been discontinued! I'd like them to go back on their word, but seems unlikely.

Damn the luck.  Oh well.

JT
[/quote]

Check with www.112bit.com they still show in stock on Juan's site.

[Moria843]

Whenever I wake up and see a block running all night - it seems to run forever. Same thing happened this morning and repeating itself.

[MrTeal]

Here's what pisses me off:

Bitmain says the following regarding their S4, "Power line not included. You may look for one line with no less than 16A in your local market."

Well, I've searched the WORLD WIDE WEB for a C14 Power cord and cannot find one rated higher than 15 amps.

WTF?

Pretty sure they made a typo and meant 16Awg. If you're running on 240v you need an 18AWG cord, ND if you're running 120v use a 14AWG cord.

I bought this one:

  Amazon.com: Tripp Lite Heavy Duty Power Cord, 16A,14AWG (NEMA 5-15P to IEC-320-C15) 8-ft.(P019-008): Electronics
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091F8GP6/#

It's a replacement for a heavy duty server room style UPS.  When i got it, the packing slip said 16A but the packaging the cord was in said 15A.  Anyway until I received that my S4 ran fine for 2 days with a standard el-cheap-o 10A PC power cord that I had laying around in a box in my closet, so I wouldn't stress about it.

I have seen the one you purchased on Amazon.  It is a kettle cord.  A C-15 made to fit a C-16 connector.  It is used for higher amperage appliances.  It also has a valley in the C16 connect which does not allow a C-13 cord to plug into it.  However, a C-15 or C1-3 cord can plug into a C-14 connect.  The S4 has a C-14 connect.  I'm just going to purchase Trip-Lite 14 AWG C13 10 feet cord for the S4.  Uses the same gauge wire as the Trip-Lite C-15 8 feet cord you purchased from Amazon.

Thanks for your description.

David

Something else yall need to remember is the length of the cord.  A 10 ft cord will get hotter and pull more amps than a 3 foot cord.  All my miner power cables are 3 ft or less with an iso bar behind them.

JT

Actually given the same load attached to a cable, the longer the cable, the more the resistance, the greater the voltage drop across the cable (lost as heat), but the current drops. Since current drops, an infinitely long cable would have all the voltage drop but no current and would be cool.

No, current doesn't drop unless you're hooked up to a resistor. A power supply is (close to) a constant power device, so current will increase in proportion to the voltage drop. It will be pretty minor though.

Cable heating won't really change, since while you'll have 3.3x the voltage drop with a 10ft vs 3ft cable and essentially the same current and will therefore dissipate 3.3x more power, the cable also has 3.3x more surface area to dissipate heat. That's why wire gauges are rated for a certain current without regard for length.

[pekatete]

Whenever I wake up and see a block running all night - it seems to run forever. Same thing happened this morning and repeating itself.

Right, you need to get sleeping tablets as we can not afford this sort of luck for long!

[Moria843]

Here's what pisses me off:

Bitmain says the following regarding their S4, "Power line not included. You may look for one line with no less than 16A in your local market."

Well, I've searched the WORLD WIDE WEB for a C14 Power cord and cannot find one rated higher than 15 amps.

WTF?

Pretty sure they made a typo and meant 16Awg. If you're running on 240v you need an 18AWG cord, ND if you're running 120v use a 14AWG cord.

I bought this one:

  Amazon.com: Tripp Lite Heavy Duty Power Cord, 16A,14AWG (NEMA 5-15P to IEC-320-C15) 8-ft.(P019-008): Electronics
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091F8GP6/#

It's a replacement for a heavy duty server room style UPS.  When i got it, the packing slip said 16A but the packaging the cord was in said 15A.  Anyway until I received that my S4 ran fine for 2 days with a standard el-cheap-o 10A PC power cord that I had laying around in a box in my closet, so I wouldn't stress about it.

I have seen the one you purchased on Amazon.  It is a kettle cord.  A C-15 made to fit a C-16 connector.  It is used for higher amperage appliances.  It also has a valley in the C16 connect which does not allow a C-13 cord to plug into it.  However, a C-15 or C1-3 cord can plug into a C-14 connect.  The S4 has a C-14 connect.  I'm just going to purchase Trip-Lite 14 AWG C13 10 feet cord for the S4.  Uses the same gauge wire as the Trip-Lite C-15 8 feet cord you purchased from Amazon.

Thanks for your description.

David

Something else yall need to remember is the length of the cord.  A 10 ft cord will get hotter and pull more amps than a 3 foot cord.  All my miner power cables are 3 ft or less with an iso bar behind them.

JT

Actually given the same load attached to a cable, the longer the cable, the more the resistance, the greater the voltage drop across the cable (lost as heat), but the current drops. Since current drops, an infinitely long cable would have all the voltage drop but no current and would be cool.

No, current doesn't drop unless you're hooked up to a resistor. A power supply is (close to) a constant power device, so current will increase in proportion to the voltage drop. It will be pretty minor though.

Cable heating won't really change, since while you'll have 3.3x the voltage drop with a 10ft vs 3ft cable and essentially the same current and will therefore dissipate 3.3x more power, the cable also has 3.3x more surface area to dissipate heat. That's why wire gauges are rated for a certain current without regard for length.

You're wrong! Current will drop regardless of load if cable is long enough. The wire itself becomes a big resistor. Even if the supply was ideal, there would be little current getting to the load (or going through the cable) if the cable was long enough. Cable resistance approaches infinity as length increases. Of course, the difference between 3 to 10 feet is insignificant.

[MrTeal]

Actually given the same load attached to a cable, the longer the cable, the more the resistance, the greater the voltage drop across the cable (lost as heat), but the current drops. Since current drops, an infinitely long cable would have all the voltage drop but no current and would be cool.

No, current doesn't drop unless you're hooked up to a resistor. A power supply is (close to) a constant power device, so current will increase in proportion to the voltage drop. It will be pretty minor though.

Cable heating won't really change, since while you'll have 3.3x the voltage drop with a 10ft vs 3ft cable and essentially the same current and will therefore dissipate 3.3x more power, the cable also has 3.3x more surface area to dissipate heat. That's why wire gauges are rated for a certain current without regard for length.

You're wrong! Current will drop regardless of load if cable is long enough. The wire itself becomes a big resistor. Even if the supply was ideal, there would be little current getting to the load (or going through the cable) if the cable was long enough. Cable resistance approaches infinity as length increases. Of course, the difference between 3 to 10 feet is insignificant.

No, I am not. Current will rise as cable length rises and voltage at the load will decrease until either the input current or input voltage protection of the PSU trips at which point the PSU will shut down and current will go to (almost) 0.
For an S4 pulling 1400W (with a PF=1) from a 240V line and assuming the PSU trips off at 100V, you'd be pulling 14A and could thus use up to a 600m long 14 gauge cable. IE, preposterously long.

[jterry211]

Actually given the same load attached to a cable, the longer the cable, the more the resistance, the greater the voltage drop across the cable (lost as heat), but the current drops. Since current drops, an infinitely long cable would have all the voltage drop but no current and would be cool.

No, current doesn't drop unless you're hooked up to a resistor. A power supply is (close to) a constant power device, so current will increase in proportion to the voltage drop. It will be pretty minor though.

Cable heating won't really change, since while you'll have 3.3x the voltage drop with a 10ft vs 3ft cable and essentially the same current and will therefore dissipate 3.3x more power, the cable also has 3.3x more surface area to dissipate heat. That's why wire gauges are rated for a certain current without regard for length.

You're wrong! Current will drop regardless of load if cable is long enough. The wire itself becomes a big resistor. Even if the supply was ideal, there would be little current getting to the load (or going through the cable) if the cable was long enough. Cable resistance approaches infinity as length increases. Of course, the difference between 3 to 10 feet is insignificant.

No, I am not. Current will rise as cable length rises and voltage at the load will decrease until either the input current or input voltage protection of the PSU trips at which point the PSU will shut down and current will go to (almost) 0.
For an S4 pulling 1400W (with a PF=1) from a 240V line and assuming the PSU trips off at 100V, you'd be pulling 14A and could thus use up to a 600m long 14 gauge cable. IE, preposterously long.

All i know is i had a heavy gauge 10ft cable on 3 avalons and the ends were getting reallllly hot.  Changed over to a heavy gauge 3ft cable and no problems.

JT

[dmwardjr]

No, current doesn't drop unless you're hooked up to a resistor. A power supply is (close to) a constant power device, so current will increase in proportion to the voltage drop. It will be pretty minor though.

The sole job of resistance is to oppose current [DC or AC].  Also, resistance will not drop (consume; eat) any voltage unless current is flowing through it.  Being that AC will flow ON or THROUGH a capacitor no matter if the capacitor is open (normal) or shorted (abnormal); voltage is dropped by the resistance in the metal plates of the capacitor (line cord).  However, I will not continue in the "science" of electrons flowing on/through a capacitor.  I will simply provide a table below for current ratings in wire other than magnet wire.

Current Ratings:

Most current ratings for wires (except magnet wires) are based on permissible voltage drop, not temperature rise. For example, 0.5 mm^2 wire is rated at 3A in some applications but will carry over 8 A in free air without overheating. You will find tables of permitted maximum current in national electrical codes, but these are based on voltage drop (not the heating which is no problem in the current rating those codes give).  Which I say again, "the wire gauge (AWG) used is more important than the length [when looking at power cords for peripherals].

Here is a small current and AWG table taken from the Amateur Radio Relay Handbook, 1985.

AWG  dia mils     circ mils     open air A      cable Amp       ft/lb bare     ohms/1000'
        
10     101.9         10380           55                  33               31.82           1.018
12       80.8          6530           41                   23               50.59           1.619
14       64.1          4107           32                   17               80.44           2.575

Mils are .001". "open air A" is a continuous rating for a single conductor with insulation in open air. "cable amp" is for in multiple conductor cables. Disregard the amperage ratings for household use.

To calculate voltage drop, plug in the values: V = DIR/1000
Where I is the amperage, R is from the ohms/1000' column above, and D is the total distance the current travels (don't forget to add the length of the neutral and hot together - ie: usually double cable length). Design rules in the CEC call for a maximum voltage drop of 6% (7V on 120V circuit).



What I'm arguing: is the AMOUNT of the resistance in a 14 AWG power line cord at 12 feet in length will not get as hot as a 16 AWG power line cord of the same length in a circuit running at 11.666667 AMPS (Bitmain Antminer S4 @ 1400 watts = 11.666667 AMPS).  This is THE SAME THING you pointed out in your statement I quoted below.

WE AGREE!!!  GAUGE (AWG) IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN LENGTH; since the length we are talking about is really not very long at all.

Cable heating won't really change, since while you'll have 3.3x the voltage drop with a 10ft vs 3ft cable and essentially the same current and will therefore dissipate 3.3x more power, the cable also has 3.3x more surface area to dissipate heat. That's why wire gauges are rated for a certain current without regard for length.

MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY

[dmwardjr]

Actually given the same load attached to a cable, the longer the cable, the more the resistance, the greater the voltage drop across the cable (lost as heat), but the current drops. Since current drops, an infinitely long cable would have all the voltage drop but no current and would be cool.

No, current doesn't drop unless you're hooked up to a resistor. A power supply is (close to) a constant power device, so current will increase in proportion to the voltage drop. It will be pretty minor though.

Cable heating won't really change, since while you'll have 3.3x the voltage drop with a 10ft vs 3ft cable and essentially the same current and will therefore dissipate 3.3x more power, the cable also has 3.3x more surface area to dissipate heat. That's why wire gauges are rated for a certain current without regard for length.

You're wrong! Current will drop regardless of load if cable is long enough. The wire itself becomes a big resistor. Even if the supply was ideal, there would be little current getting to the load (or going through the cable) if the cable was long enough. Cable resistance approaches infinity as length increases. Of course, the difference between 3 to 10 feet is insignificant.

No, I am not. Current will rise as cable length rises and voltage at the load will decrease until either the input current or input voltage protection of the PSU trips at which point the PSU will shut down and current will go to (almost) 0.
For an S4 pulling 1400W (with a PF=1) from a 240V line and assuming the PSU trips off at 100V, you'd be pulling 14A and could thus use up to a 600m long 14 gauge cable. IE, preposterously long.

All i know is i had a heavy gauge 10ft cable on 3 avalons and the ends were getting reallllly hot.  Changed over to a heavy gauge 3ft cable and no problems.

JT

When you said you changed over "...to a HEAVY GAUGE 3ft cable and no problems," I'm simply saying the "HEAVY GAUGE" [switching from 18 AWG or 16 AWG to 14 AWG] was what cut down the heat RATHER THAN THE LENGTH of the power cord.

Also, I'm not shouting when using caps.  The caps are only for EMPHASIS.

[dmwardjr]

Bitcoin Difficulty:   35,002,482,026
Estimated Next Difficulty:   35,374,044,839 (+1.06%)
Adjust time:   After 250 Blocks, About 1.7 days
Hashrate(?):   243,539,654 GH/s
Block Generation Time(?):   
1 block: 9.9 minutes
3 blocks: 29.9 minutes
6 blocks: 59.7 minutes
Updated:   15:8 (4.3 minutes ago)

[sjc1490]

I have 3 S4 coupons expire 10/25 worth 200.00 each if anyone is interested. (.2 each) PM me.

[dmwardjr]

If you haven't already, PLEASE read this article on BITCOIN:

http://blog.easybitz.com/2014/10/05/closing-the-circle/

David

[dmwardjr]

Damn good YouTube video:  Bitcoin Cryptocurrency Crash Course with Andreas Antonopoulos - Jefferson Club Dinner Meetup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP9-lAYngi4#t=304

[Billbags]

Damn good YouTube video:  Bitcoin Cryptocurrency Crash Course with Andreas Antonopoulos - Jefferson Club Dinner Meetup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP9-lAYngi4#t=304

So 2 hours ago I was gonna check the pool, eat supper and watch The Voice. Thanks to your post I have not got any of that done. That is a grate video. It was worth the time

This is the one I actually watched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNGFZDO8mM

[dmwardjr]

Damn good YouTube video:  Bitcoin Cryptocurrency Crash Course with Andreas Antonopoulos - Jefferson Club Dinner Meetup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP9-lAYngi4#t=304

So 2 hours ago I was gonna check the pool, eat supper and watch The Voice. Thanks to your post I have not got any of that done. That is a grate video. It was worth the time

This is the one I actually watched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNGFZDO8mM

WOW...

You and I are like riding on the same wave or something...

Cause I too had to put The Voice on hold [recorded it] so I could let my wife [Who also is interested in Bitcoin] watch it.  She actually put The Voice on hold to watch it.  We did eat first though.  I cooked us some pork chops, rice and green beans with sweet tea to drink.

Thanks for the one you provided as well.  I'm going to watch it AFTER The Voice.

David

[wasikidding]

Anyone else get a prisma? I heard they didnt come with the usb adapter they were supposed to can any one confirm?

[kcal63]

David,
Good vid, I have seen him expostulate on the subject before but this was a good iteration. The Circle article was a very good summation of the basic idea many of us have been promoting for the past couple of years.

Is anyone else noticing that their error rate at the pool is swinging wildly the past couple of days?
It could just be something in my setup but I haven't been able to find it yet.
My error rate (normally between 2 and 4%) has been shifting between 1% and 24% every couple of hours for the past day or so.
I am looking at everything I can think of from the controllers, software and internet connection to the cables, PSU and board connections.
If anyone has any suggestions they would be appreciated.

[dmwardjr]

David,
Good vid, I have seen him expostulate on the subject before but this was a good iteration. The Circle article was a very good summation of the basic idea many of us have been promoting for the past couple of years.

Is anyone else noticing that their error rate at the pool is swinging wildly the past couple of days?
It could just be something in my setup but I haven't been able to find it yet.
My error rate (normally between 2 and 4%) has been shifting between 1% and 24% every couple of hours for the past day or so.
I am looking at everything I can think of from the controllers, software and internet connection to the cables, PSU and board connections.
If anyone has any suggestions they would be appreciated.

Wow!

Sounds terrible no matter what "error rate" you are referring to.  My question is, "What error rate?"

Are you referring to HW errors?  Get Work Fail Occasions?