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Author Topic: [4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool  (Read 4364883 times)
dmwardjr
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November 26, 2014, 02:47:00 PM
 #20021

....at last....a block with 0:26:18..... Grin

Wow!

I be damn if it isn't!

Sweeeeeeeet

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jterry211
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November 26, 2014, 04:03:37 PM
 #20022

The C1 is just another toy to play with.... Wink

Till now, I dont have one. A friend of mine's got two,
he is delighted bout the "transportpotential of the heat".
And they are running stable, he said.

So my idea, take 10 of them, put waterpipes together and
lead it through the underfloor heating...... Roll Eyes

Just put them in the bathroom and hook them up to the hot water side of your sink and you will have instant hot water.  Grin

JT
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November 26, 2014, 04:51:51 PM
 #20023

In winter it is very good, if you have got cheap power, you can save lot gallons of oil or gas for heating.
Six S3 heating 240sqm at 25°.... Cool

But ontopic:

question @ slushsupport: Do you know, if there are some vendors mining in this pool?
jackbox
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November 26, 2014, 05:02:28 PM
 #20024

Do the C1's generate as much expelled heat as the S3+ units? When my aircon is not on the room my Antminer S3+ is in heats up to about 31 Celsius (I am in Bangkok). Would a C1 generate as much heat from the radiator/fan unit or does it run cooler/hotter overall?

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November 26, 2014, 05:14:33 PM
 #20025

It felt a little bit cooler than my S3 in normal modus....

Still need 6 blocks to get one very cheap, maybe..... Roll Eyes

Edit: Anyone here already own a C1?
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November 26, 2014, 05:18:28 PM
 #20026

Love the idea about the hot water.
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November 26, 2014, 05:22:36 PM
 #20027

It felt a little bit cooler than my S3 in normal modus....

Still need 6 blocks to get one very cheap, maybe..... Roll Eyes

Edit: Anyone here already own a C1?

Do you have the free $50 off coupons they gave to almost everyone or do you need one sent to you? I have 6 that most likely won't get used.

I am tempted to get a C1 but not sure if my room could handle the additional heat and if my Thai wiring could handle another 1100 watt power supply.

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November 26, 2014, 05:25:54 PM
 #20028

Love the idea about the hot water.

Trust me, it is too less power to heat flowing water, but if you
have got underfloor heating or low emission radiators in a heating
cycle and enough overclocked C1, you can make finish sauna...... Shocked

I am new here, are there no threads about heating with miners?
dmwardjr
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November 26, 2014, 07:35:18 PM
 #20029

I HOPE this block that is still at 100 confirmations remaining is ours and not someone else's.

That's the only reason I can think that it still has 100 confirmations.

Please be our block!

EDIT:  The more I watch it, the more it looks like none of the blocks we found are continuing their confirmation count down.

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November 26, 2014, 07:43:20 PM
 #20030

I HOPE this block that is still at 100 confirmations remaining is ours and not someone else's.

That's the only reason I can think that it still has 100 confirmations.

Please be our block!

EDIT:  The more I watch it, the more it looks like none of the blocks we found are continuing their confirmation count down.
Each new block on the network counts as one confirmation. There hasn't been a new block found by anyone in the last 40 minutes, hence no more confirmations.
dmwardjr
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November 26, 2014, 07:47:55 PM
 #20031

I HOPE this block that is still at 100 confirmations remaining is ours and not someone else's.

That's the only reason I can think that it still has 100 confirmations.

Please be our block!

EDIT:  The more I watch it, the more it looks like none of the blocks we found are continuing their confirmation count down.
Each new block on the network counts as one confirmation. There hasn't been a new block found by anyone in the last 40 minutes, hence no more confirmations.

Have you NOT noticed the confirmation count down on the blocks found have yet to move since that block was found?

Also, sometimes there is argument between pools as to whom found a particular block first.  That's why I was wondering why that recent block found was still at 100.

After watching longer, NONE of the blocks found are counting down to being cofirmed.  I'm sure they are; it's just we are not seeing it on the beta.


EDIT:

There we go, they are counting down now.

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MrTeal
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November 26, 2014, 07:57:17 PM
 #20032

I HOPE this block that is still at 100 confirmations remaining is ours and not someone else's.

That's the only reason I can think that it still has 100 confirmations.

Please be our block!

EDIT:  The more I watch it, the more it looks like none of the blocks we found are continuing their confirmation count down.
Each new block on the network counts as one confirmation. There hasn't been a new block found by anyone in the last 40 minutes, hence no more confirmations.

Have you NOT noticed the confirmation count down on the blocks found have yet to move since that block was found?

Also, sometimes there is argument between pools as to whom found a particular block first.  That's why I was wondering why that recent block found was still at 100.

After watching longer, NONE of the blocks found are counting down to being cofirmed.  I'm sure they are; it's just we are not seeing it on the beta.


EDIT:

There we go, they are counting down now.
No, they weren't counting down at all because they weren't supposed to be counting down. The confirmations listed by Slush is basically the number of blocks built on top of the block in question. IE, for block 331733, Slush will consider that confirmed and pay out for it after the network all together finds another 100 blocks. After 331733, no blocks were found for 40 minutes, and that's why it stayed as 100 confirmations required, and none of the other blocks were counting down either.

As a point, until a block has at least one built on top of it there's always the chance it can get orphaned, but it would actually be very unlikely for even the last block to be orphaned after a couple minutes or so. You get orphan races when two blocks are found within usually a couple seconds of each other, but after a minute everyone who's not running broken software would have been mining on our block, and not the preceeding one.
dmwardjr
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November 26, 2014, 08:04:10 PM
 #20033

I HOPE this block that is still at 100 confirmations remaining is ours and not someone else's.

That's the only reason I can think that it still has 100 confirmations.

Please be our block!

EDIT:  The more I watch it, the more it looks like none of the blocks we found are continuing their confirmation count down.
Each new block on the network counts as one confirmation. There hasn't been a new block found by anyone in the last 40 minutes, hence no more confirmations.

Have you NOT noticed the confirmation count down on the blocks found have yet to move since that block was found?

Also, sometimes there is argument between pools as to whom found a particular block first.  That's why I was wondering why that recent block found was still at 100.

After watching longer, NONE of the blocks found are counting down to being cofirmed.  I'm sure they are; it's just we are not seeing it on the beta.


EDIT:

There we go, they are counting down now.
No, they weren't counting down at all because they weren't supposed to be counting down. The confirmations listed by Slush is basically the number of blocks built on top of the block in question. IE, for block 331733, Slush will consider that confirmed and pay out for it after the network all together finds another 100 blocks. After 331733, no blocks were found for 40 minutes, and that's why it stayed as 100 confirmations required, and none of the other blocks were counting down either.

As a point, until a block has at least one built on top of it there's always the chance it can get orphaned, but it would actually be very unlikely for even the last block to be orphaned after a couple minutes or so. You get orphan races when two blocks are found within usually a couple seconds of each other, but after a minute everyone who's not running broken software would have been mining on our block, and not the preceeding one.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me, Mr Teal.  I know you didn't have to but I appreciate it.  Learn something all the time.

Thank you!   Grin

Follow me on Trading View for excellent signals in Bitcoin/US dollar - Bitstamp - https://www.tradingview.com/u/ProwdClown/.  Will be on a paid subscription website soon with trading signals and technical education using Wyckoff Method in conjunction with Godmode and Stochastic RSI indicators for many more crypto currency pairs besides BTCUSD.
kano
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November 26, 2014, 09:26:36 PM
 #20034

...
No, they weren't counting down at all because they weren't supposed to be counting down. The confirmations listed by Slush is basically the number of blocks built on top of the block in question. IE, for block 331733 (https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000d85f2d73089f2420d3f71d4a614139ace6bab56888adbc1?site=slush), Slush will consider that confirmed and pay out for it after the network all together finds another 100 blocks. After 331733, no blocks were found for 40 minutes, and that's why it stayed as 100 confirmations required, and none of the other blocks were counting down either.

As a point, until a block has at least one built on top of it there's always the chance it can get orphaned, but it would actually be very unlikely for even the last block to be orphaned after a couple minutes or so. You get orphan races when two blocks are found within usually a couple seconds of each other, but after a minute everyone who's not running broken software would have been mining on our block, and not the preceeding one.
Just a couple of points.

In the current bitcoin-qt it's 101 blocks Smiley
When I added that to the ckdb code I was surprised to see it is actually 101 not 100 (as I also thought it was 100)
But that's also due to the confusion that when a block is found it is considered 1 confirm, not 0 confirms.

Although an orphan race is usually obvious, if someone finds a block after most people on the network know about another block, they can keep mining off their own block and win if they are very lucky.
Of course they would have to not send out their late block, thus the network wouldn't know about it at all.
But if they are lucky enough to build on their own block before anyone find a block to build on the network block, and they send out both, they will actually win the previous orphan race and their 2 blocks will become the network blocks.

So yes, even I look at the 'known' blocks when my pool finds a block and am usually pretty sure after a few minutes, but it's still not certain.
Of course, if you are looking at blockchain and not in your bitcoind debug.log the losing block may be on the network and you just can't see it in blockchain.
That's rare but it can happen.

The normal thing that happens on an orphan race is that part of the network will be mining on one and another part of the network on the other.
It's then purely up to which part of the network finds the next block, that decides the orphan race (though it can in rare circumstances be longer than 1 block to decide it)
So it just depends on who has seen both blocks, to know that the orphan race is even happening - but normally everyone has seen both and chosen the one they saw first, to mine on.

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MrTeal
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November 26, 2014, 09:51:24 PM
 #20035

...
No, they weren't counting down at all because they weren't supposed to be counting down. The confirmations listed by Slush is basically the number of blocks built on top of the block in question. IE, for block 331733 (https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000d85f2d73089f2420d3f71d4a614139ace6bab56888adbc1?site=slush), Slush will consider that confirmed and pay out for it after the network all together finds another 100 blocks. After 331733, no blocks were found for 40 minutes, and that's why it stayed as 100 confirmations required, and none of the other blocks were counting down either.

As a point, until a block has at least one built on top of it there's always the chance it can get orphaned, but it would actually be very unlikely for even the last block to be orphaned after a couple minutes or so. You get orphan races when two blocks are found within usually a couple seconds of each other, but after a minute everyone who's not running broken software would have been mining on our block, and not the preceeding one.
Just a couple of points.

In the current bitcoin-qt it's 101 blocks Smiley
When I added that to the ckdb code I was surprised to see it is actually 101 not 100 (as I also thought it was 100)
But that's also due to the confusion that when a block is found it is considered 1 confirm, not 0 confirms.

Although an orphan race is usually obvious, if someone finds a block after most people on the network know about another block, they can keep mining off their own block and win if they are very lucky.
Of course they would have to not send out their late block, thus the network wouldn't know about it at all.
But if they are lucky enough to build on their own block before anyone find a block to build on the network block, and they send out both, they will actually win the previous orphan race and their 2 blocks will become the network blocks.

So yes, even I look at the 'known' blocks when my pool finds a block and am usually pretty sure after a few minutes, but it's still not certain.
Of course, if you are looking at blockchain and not in your bitcoind debug.log the losing block may be on the network and you just can't see it in blockchain.
That's rare but it can happen.


The normal thing that happens on an orphan race is that part of the network will be mining on one and another part of the network on the other.
It's then purely up to which part of the network finds the next block, that decides the orphan race (though it can in rare circumstances be longer than 1 block to decide it)
So it just depends on who has seen both blocks, to know that the orphan race is even happening - but normally everyone has seen both and chosen the one they saw first, to mine on.
In the bolded part, are you saying that if you are the last one to find a block on the network and after you've submitted it a couple minutes goes by without another block (to your knowledge) you've still had that block orphaned?

Barring block withholding, my understanding of how that would happen is that prior to 01:00, the network is at height (say) 200. That's actual UTC, not timestamps. You find block 201 at 01:00, and broadcast it, but either due to poor connections or the miner's choice some miners continue to mine on block 200. A couple minutes later at 01:02, one of those miners finds block 201 and submits it, creating the orphan race. After that, those miners continue mining on their block 201, while those who had been mining on your block 201 either continue to do so or switch to the block 201 submitted at 01:02. Some time after that, someone builds a block on the later block 201 and you lose the race.

Is that how something like that would work? It seems to be unlikely unless you are very poorly connected or someone else is poorly connected and has a lot of hashing power, but I'd be interested if it could happen another way.
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November 26, 2014, 10:11:58 PM
 #20036

@kano, I don't have bitcoind logging debug, but I'd be interested to see what you have in there for block 330268.

According to blockchain, someone popped up and found 10 blocks in 14 hours including one at 330268 that blockchain saw at 2014-11-16 11:54:02 . At 12:13:11 GHash.IO found another block 330268, which KnC later confirmed at 12:27:43.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how blockchain would have seen the block at 11:54 and GHash wouldn't have seen it several minutes later, or chose to not mine that block.

Edit: Nevermind. It just appears that the received time field at blockchain isn't actually the time they receive it, and they just set it equal to the timestamp.
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November 26, 2014, 10:19:12 PM
 #20037

...
No, they weren't counting down at all because they weren't supposed to be counting down. The confirmations listed by Slush is basically the number of blocks built on top of the block in question. IE, for block 331733 (https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000d85f2d73089f2420d3f71d4a614139ace6bab56888adbc1?site=slush), Slush will consider that confirmed and pay out for it after the network all together finds another 100 blocks. After 331733, no blocks were found for 40 minutes, and that's why it stayed as 100 confirmations required, and none of the other blocks were counting down either.

As a point, until a block has at least one built on top of it there's always the chance it can get orphaned, but it would actually be very unlikely for even the last block to be orphaned after a couple minutes or so. You get orphan races when two blocks are found within usually a couple seconds of each other, but after a minute everyone who's not running broken software would have been mining on our block, and not the preceeding one.
Just a couple of points.

In the current bitcoin-qt it's 101 blocks Smiley
When I added that to the ckdb code I was surprised to see it is actually 101 not 100 (as I also thought it was 100)
But that's also due to the confusion that when a block is found it is considered 1 confirm, not 0 confirms.

Although an orphan race is usually obvious, if someone finds a block after most people on the network know about another block, they can keep mining off their own block and win if they are very lucky.
Of course they would have to not send out their late block, thus the network wouldn't know about it at all.
But if they are lucky enough to build on their own block before anyone find a block to build on the network block, and they send out both, they will actually win the previous orphan race and their 2 blocks will become the network blocks.

So yes, even I look at the 'known' blocks when my pool finds a block and am usually pretty sure after a few minutes, but it's still not certain.
Of course, if you are looking at blockchain and not in your bitcoind debug.log the losing block may be on the network and you just can't see it in blockchain.
That's rare but it can happen.


The normal thing that happens on an orphan race is that part of the network will be mining on one and another part of the network on the other.
It's then purely up to which part of the network finds the next block, that decides the orphan race (though it can in rare circumstances be longer than 1 block to decide it)
So it just depends on who has seen both blocks, to know that the orphan race is even happening - but normally everyone has seen both and chosen the one they saw first, to mine on.
In the bolded part, are you saying that if you are the last one to find a block on the network and after you've submitted it a couple minutes goes by without another block (to your knowledge) you've still had that block orphaned?

Barring block withholding, my understanding of how that would happen is that prior to 01:00, the network is at height (say) 200. That's actual UTC, not timestamps. You find block 201 at 01:00, and broadcast it, but either due to poor connections or the miner's choice some miners continue to mine on block 200. A couple minutes later at 01:02, one of those miners finds block 201 and submits it, creating the orphan race. After that, those miners continue mining on their block 201, while those who had been mining on your block 201 either continue to do so or switch to the block 201 submitted at 01:02. Some time after that, someone builds a block on the later block 201 and you lose the race.

Is that how something like that would work? It seems to be unlikely unless you are very poorly connected or someone else is poorly connected and has a lot of hashing power, but I'd be interested if it could happen another way.
Firstly, bitcoind will never 'switch' to a different block at the same level, it stays on the one it sees first.
bitcoind keeps track of the other forks so that when the "next level" block arrives, it will switch to whichever fork it was built on - or stay on it's current one if the new block builds on it's current one.
i.e. it all simply depends on the level change for each new block - another block at the same level will not cause a switch - since that would be making a late block win an orphan battle rather than the first one bitcoind sees.

My example of when you could unexpectedly lose is either due to a "losing" block withholding by someone else, or the software you are using to see the orphan race not always working properly and not always seeing the race - so yes it would be rare.
I only mention that second option because with bitcoind you'd have to pay close attention to the block messages in the debug.log file but I've also seen blockchain not show blocks correctly, so making an assumption on what blockchain says is certainly not advisable Smiley
Some pools have all sorts of edits and changes they make to the standard bitcoind (or use some other software) to do things the way they want, so you can never be quite sure about blocks until a few confirms have happened.
(In my pool's case we don't change anything but the block size, with the standard bitcoind options, to ~850k Tongue)

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November 26, 2014, 10:22:02 PM
 #20038

@kano, I don't have bitcoind logging debug, but I'd be interested to see what you have in there for block 330268.

According to blockchain, someone popped up and found 10 blocks in 14 hours including one at 330268 that blockchain saw at 2014-11-16 11:54:02 . At 12:13:11 GHash.IO found another block 330268, which KnC later confirmed at 12:27:43.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how blockchain would have seen the block at 11:54 and GHash wouldn't have seen it several minutes later, or chose to not mine that block.

Edit: Nevermind. It just appears that the received time field at blockchain isn't actually the time they receive it, and they just set it equal to the timestamp.
Yes, that's a real PITA that they show the block header timestamp.
It's next to meaningless and causes confusion.
Again, you'd need to look in the bitcoind debug.log to find out when you saw each block (and each orphan)

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code
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November 26, 2014, 10:27:39 PM
 #20039

@kano, I don't have bitcoind logging debug, but I'd be interested to see what you have in there for block 330268.

According to blockchain, someone popped up and found 10 blocks in 14 hours including one at 330268 that blockchain saw at 2014-11-16 11:54:02 . At 12:13:11 GHash.IO found another block 330268, which KnC later confirmed at 12:27:43.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to how blockchain would have seen the block at 11:54 and GHash wouldn't have seen it several minutes later, or chose to not mine that block.

Edit: Nevermind. It just appears that the received time field at blockchain isn't actually the time they receive it, and they just set it equal to the timestamp.
Yes, that's a real PITA that they show the block header timestamp.
It's next to meaningless and causes confusion.
Again, you'd need to look in the bitcoind debug.log to find out when you saw each block (and each orphan)
Especially since they have separate fields for received by and the block timestamp. Blocktrail shows the orphaned block 330268 being seen at 12:13:26, which is after the GHash.IO one that won the race.
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November 26, 2014, 11:02:51 PM
 #20040

WOW!

Wondered how that worked out.  Thanks for the questions Mr Teal.  I sure as hell wouldn't know how or what to ask; and thanks for the explanation Kano!


Follow me on Trading View for excellent signals in Bitcoin/US dollar - Bitstamp - https://www.tradingview.com/u/ProwdClown/.  Will be on a paid subscription website soon with trading signals and technical education using Wyckoff Method in conjunction with Godmode and Stochastic RSI indicators for many more crypto currency pairs besides BTCUSD.
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