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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3853619 times)
KNK
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June 02, 2013, 01:42:06 PM
 #9421

Proper normalization is time (CPU) consuming and is very difficult to do on several nodes simultaneously, that's why i also think it is 'reset' instead of normalization.
My guess is that:
On reset a signal is sent to all nodes (but some do not see the message and that's where things go wrong)
Each node recalculates per miner score based on his last share
The central node / database sums all the scores sent from the nodes
Now if one node does not reset it's data we have all miners affected except those on that node.
In such cases the total score remains high after reset and this can probably be used as a trigger (more of flag actualy) for recalculation if the round is not long enough to cause another reset and thus clear the 'recalculation needed' flag if successful.

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organofcorti
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June 02, 2013, 01:49:55 PM
 #9422

Thanks for the response, you are absolutely right. I do pull the statistics via the JSON API every 10 minutes and analyse & plot it automatically every 6 hours. (I do not want to pull more frequently for practical reasons.)

At this point in time, based on stats from the last 2 months, what I see confirmed is the "magical fix" manual recalculation via PPS which is easy to spot and slush has been honest about it when I contacted him (he is very open and honest, and I do understand him not wanting to actively post here recently).

Can you explain this? PM me if you don't want to post publicly.

I do not think that based on my current amount of data I could back my assertion beyond a doubt, this is why I was very explicitly calling it a guess. I could collect data and perform "black box analysis" for any amount of time and still not reach 100% as it is theoretically impossible to reach 100% via passive black box analysis but the confidence level is growing with the amount of data collected.

Great! Have you been able to calculate 'c' yet? Having this will allow you to back calculate shares which will make figuring out the renormalisation easier.

Checking the code (aka white box analysis) could be much less effort taking and allow for a statement beyond doubt. And honestly, I have never even seen a precise description of what exactly is done on a renormalisation, only the fact is mentioned that a renormalisation is periodically performed. In contrast to this, Meni Rosenfeld is very explicit in how rescaling should work when using DGM (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39497.0).

I thought there was one somewhere. Maybe not. I'll try to find it, if it exists.

Regarding changes to C: what I mean is that on rescaling/renormalization, when the score is changed, but C is not, then you very aggressively change the weight of all the work one has performed before renormalisation versus the weight of the new per share increment. However, if the score is divided by X, and C multiplied by log(X), then the value of previous scores relative to the value of the increment score for the new share is kept the same (maintaining the exponential semantics used by slush), and you will end up with the same exponential curve, just rescaled (zoomed out).

Since 'c' can't be changed without completely changing the 'hoppability' of the pool, you are in effect saying that given this restriction proper renormalisation or rescaling can't occur? Hmmm. Have to think about that.

You've obviously done a lot of work - you should post your results somewhere on the forum, as a work in progress. I'm keen to see what you have.

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iFA88
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June 02, 2013, 02:34:25 PM
 #9423

Compare this block info:
18339    2013-06-02 14:00:37    2:02:30    19604110    328    0.00000000    239277    25.12461000    95 confirmations left
18331    2013-06-02 04:22:48    2:08:01    19975253    314    0.00046448    239200    25.06660003    18 confirmations left

On 18339 i have stopped the mining on half time, and my previous shares value is 0 ?!
On 18331 i have mined the whole block, but with only one worker.

Thats fair?
TiborB
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June 02, 2013, 02:38:14 PM
 #9424


Can you explain this? PM me if you don't want to post publicly.

(...)

Great! Have you been able to calculate 'c' yet? Having this will allow you to back calculate shares which will make figuring out the renormalisation easier.

(...)

I thought there was one somewhere. Maybe not. I'll try to find it, if it exists.

(...)

Since 'c' can't be changed without completely changing the 'hoppability' of the pool, you are in effect saying that given this restriction proper renormalisation or rescaling can't occur? Hmmm. Have to think about that.

You've obviously done a lot of work - you should post your results somewhere on the forum, as a work in progress. I'm keen to see what you have.

I will send you a PM. I tried to look for how exactly the rescaling works, but have not found detailed docs. I would really appreciate a link in case you have it handy.
Regarding reverse engineering the current value of C, I have read your blog post on the topic (http://organofcorti.blogspot.hu/2012/09/43-slushs-score-method-and-miner.html), kudos to you, I enjoyed the read.

My idea was changing C on each rescaling, then resetting it to the original value when a new round starts. This would indeed affect the hop point. Honestly, I have not dived deeply into the hopping aspect of changing C intra-round yet, my first point of interest was checking how variance is correlated with the time elapsed since the last renormalisation with and without changing C.

I would avoid going public prematurely, the community might be a bit harsh and I do not want to raise a flame war before I can properly back the points. I'll PM you, you are way more experienced with this type of statistical analysis than me so any idea/comment is welcome.

Cheers,
   T
stephengillon
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June 02, 2013, 02:50:44 PM
 #9425

no registration on block 239281


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iFA88
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June 02, 2013, 02:52:16 PM
 #9426

no registration on block 239281
U have right.
http://blockchain.info/hu/block-index/388856/000000000000003767647fa60d826ae86265ae6969fd75ea3f956ca364fd091e
valladex
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June 02, 2013, 08:19:16 PM
 #9427

18347    2013-06-02 19:34:47    0:47:47    7511826    318    0.00096651    239329    25.17718286

18346    2013-06-02 18:47:00    0:51:59    8189628    329    0.00052418    239319    25.04053933

NOT complaining, just wondering if anyone else is seeing a lesser reward on this round as it doesn't seem to be getting corrected?

desired_username
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June 02, 2013, 08:28:52 PM
 #9428

18347    2013-06-02 19:34:47    0:47:47    7511826    318    0.00096651    239329    25.17718286

18346    2013-06-02 18:47:00    0:51:59    8189628    329    0.00052418    239319    25.04053933

NOT complaining, just wondering if anyone else is seeing a lesser reward on this round as it doesn't seem to be getting corrected?



It's alright for me.

I had a bit less than usual on 18343   2013-06-02 16:33:13   0:00:23   50946   150   0.07358613

otherwise good times Smiley

minerapia
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June 02, 2013, 09:18:48 PM
 #9429

Compare this block info:
18339    2013-06-02 14:00:37    2:02:30    19604110    328    0.00000000    239277    25.12461000    95 confirmations left
18331    2013-06-02 04:22:48    2:08:01    19975253    314    0.00046448    239200    25.06660003    18 confirmations left

On 18339 i have stopped the mining on half time, and my previous shares value is 0 ?!
On 18331 i have mined the whole block, but with only one worker.

Thats fair?
Yes, its fair. You completly stopped looking for the block solution, youre shares would be worthless anyway if someone else would not have finished the job you left halfway.





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Trongersoll
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June 02, 2013, 09:38:00 PM
 #9430

Compare this block info:
18339    2013-06-02 14:00:37    2:02:30    19604110    328    0.00000000    239277    25.12461000    95 confirmations left
18331    2013-06-02 04:22:48    2:08:01    19975253    314    0.00046448    239200    25.06660003    18 confirmations left

On 18339 i have stopped the mining on half time, and my previous shares value is 0 ?!
On 18331 i have mined the whole block, but with only one worker.

Thats fair?
Yes, its fair. You completly stopped looking for the block solution, youre shares would be worthless anyway if someone else would not have finished the job you left halfway.






The purpose, and a feature of this pool to to discourage people from casually coming and going in the middle of a block. If you feel this is unfair, you are in the wrong pool.

*insert appropriate begging line here* 
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stephengillon
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June 02, 2013, 11:33:35 PM
 #9431

still no registration for 239281

our block but nothing on stats

http://blockchain.info/block-index/388856

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nottm28
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June 02, 2013, 11:36:48 PM
 #9432

still no registration for 239281

our block but nothing on stats

http://blockchain.info/block-index/388856

Slush has been pretty good at refunding these - usually he attaches the value to another block.

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el_rlee
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June 03, 2013, 12:24:43 AM
 #9433

payout for 18339 is too high for me (~20% too high)
matauc12
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June 03, 2013, 12:37:46 AM
 #9434

still no registration for 239281

our block but nothing on stats

http://blockchain.info/block-index/388856
it has seemingly been attached to block 239282 as my reward is exactly double on that block.
stephengillon
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June 03, 2013, 03:30:41 AM
 #9435

Not me i got screwed lol

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Uliss
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June 03, 2013, 03:42:17 AM
 #9436

Change the title of the topic to 11.3Th/s
Turok
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June 03, 2013, 08:11:29 AM
 #9437

my rigs can't connect to api2.bitcoin.cz:8332, anyone else having the same issue?
biz
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June 03, 2013, 08:17:02 AM
 #9438

my rigs can't connect to api2.bitcoin.cz:8332, anyone else having the same issue?

If you have Stratum compatible software (miner) use: stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333


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Turok
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June 03, 2013, 08:19:40 AM
 #9439

my rigs can't connect to api2.bitcoin.cz:8332, anyone else having the same issue?

If you have Stratum compatible software (miner) use: stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333



thanks! that works
valladex
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June 03, 2013, 08:53:50 AM
 #9440

still no registration for 239281

our block but nothing on stats

http://blockchain.info/block-index/388856
it has seemingly been attached to block 239282 as my reward is exactly double on that block.



not here, i got a smaller than usual reward and it shows only 25 Btc reward, not double.
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