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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3858193 times)
Lucko
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May 26, 2013, 09:32:42 PM
 #9001

Like I said, if you have no issues with the pool, good for you; knock yourself out and mine on and move on.  Let us deal with our business with Slush...unless, of course, you speak for him.  Do you?
There are some who think they do... And call you a idiot if you say there is a problem and fell need to say why are you complaining it will fix itself... Well some blocks did fix itself in the last system crash but not all. The one that were just "little"(from what I can see is at lest 20% error system doesn't fix automatic) off are as they were. But writing on forum will not help. Slush is gone again(look profile for last login or post) so he will not fix them manual and some will get confirm any second now. And you can forget about confirmed blocks. Since Slush pool doesn't work unattended and Slush is not looking for it that means use it at your own risk. My test-run was over in 24 hours seeing all old errors that were the reason why I left in a first place. The only difference was that they can up about 5 times more frequently...

But in a case of block that you posted. From what I can see you did have some connection issues or you stop mining. Number of shares is off if you look at blocks. Alternatively I did see shares logging errors so that could also be the case. Did you mine the whole block? If you did stop before the end 0.00000000 could be normal...
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May 26, 2013, 09:35:50 PM
 #9002

Difficulty changed to 12153411!  Undecided
stephengillon
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May 26, 2013, 09:38:39 PM
 #9003

my pings to stratum at running around 100ms today, shares seem to be slightly lower even as i added another 400mh to my rigs.


would i see any benefit to running stratum proxy as apposed to just connecting to stratum with cgminer.

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Lucko
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May 26, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
 #9004

my pings to stratum at running around 100ms today, shares seem to be slightly lower even as i added another 400mh to my rigs.


would i see any benefit to running stratum proxy as apposed to just connecting to stratum with cgminer.
Not relay unless you have a lot of rigs and some are blocked(Slush has a limit on how many connection you can have from one IP). If you don't you will see even slower connection since you added another operation between you and stratum...

And when you are talking about the shares. What do you mean by that? You can look at estimated speed to see if it is OK. Or are you talking about share of the reword?
valladex
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May 26, 2013, 09:59:47 PM
 #9005

18231    2013-05-26 20:43:30    0:35:45    5396494    137    0.00050519    238072    25.09348564

18219    2013-05-25 23:31:47    0:33:15    4923475    138    0.00081921    237930    25.21042000

18204    2013-05-25 05:25:36    0:29:47    4422460    135    0.00052569    237807    25.36430000

18203    2013-05-25 04:55:49    0:32:47    4869975    132    0.00083881    237802    25.27910042

a small example of the reward differences i get, 25-30% difference, i see no reason to stress or leave the pool. just hoping to help other newbies make an informed decision about this pool, with all the arguments going on in the last month or so, all of which have valid points but only confuse people like me.
Lucko
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May 26, 2013, 10:12:43 PM
 #9006

18231    2013-05-26 20:43:30    0:35:45    5396494    137    0.00050519    238072    25.09348564

18219    2013-05-25 23:31:47    0:33:15    4923475    138    0.00081921    237930    25.21042000

18204    2013-05-25 05:25:36    0:29:47    4422460    135    0.00052569    237807    25.36430000

18203    2013-05-25 04:55:49    0:32:47    4869975    132    0.00083881    237802    25.27910042

a small example of the reward differences i get, 25-30% difference, i see no reason to stress or leave the pool. just hoping to help other newbies make an informed decision about this pool, with all the arguments going on in the last month or so, all of which have valid points but only confuse people like me.
At your speed 25 to 30% is normal. See Slush method to understand how speed affect differenced. I get 140 shares in less then 5 minutes. And was the newbie part meant for me?
nottm28
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May 26, 2013, 10:19:50 PM
 #9007

And was the newbie part meant for me?

Clearly Wink

Just kidding - couldn't resist the tease...

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valladex
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May 26, 2013, 10:23:15 PM
 #9008

18231    2013-05-26 20:43:30    0:35:45    5396494    137    0.00050519    238072    25.09348564

18219    2013-05-25 23:31:47    0:33:15    4923475    138    0.00081921    237930    25.21042000

18204    2013-05-25 05:25:36    0:29:47    4422460    135    0.00052569    237807    25.36430000

18203    2013-05-25 04:55:49    0:32:47    4869975    132    0.00083881    237802    25.27910042

a small example of the reward differences i get, 25-30% difference, i see no reason to stress or leave the pool. just hoping to help other newbies make an informed decision about this pool, with all the arguments going on in the last month or so, all of which have valid points but only confuse people like me.
At your speed 25 to 30% is normal. See Slush method to understand how speed affect differenced. I get 140 shares in less then 5 minutes. And was the newbie part meant for me?

There's been so many posts contradicting each other that as a newbie i find it overwhelming trying to figure out what to expect, a visual representation of similar length rounds may at least help someone to choose if this pool is right for them.
I am too much of a noob to call anyone a newbie, i did notice your sr member status earlier, apologies if i offended.
nottm28
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May 26, 2013, 10:32:06 PM
 #9009

I am too much of a noob to call anyone a newbie, i did notice your sr member status earlier, apologies if i offended.

Ok, sorry. I have to bite again. Anyone can get sr member status. All you have to do is make 250 posts (or is it 300 - something like that). And then that's it. Doesn't actually matter if your posts all say 'hello' - just the quantity that counts...

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Lucko
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May 26, 2013, 10:41:50 PM
 #9010

I am too much of a noob to call anyone a newbie, i did notice your sr member status earlier, apologies if i offended.

Ok, sorry. I have to bite again. Anyone can get sr member status. All you have to do is make 250 posts (or is it 300 - something like that). And then that's it. Doesn't actually matter if your posts all say 'hello' - just the quantity that counts...
Same goes for any kind of member... Even Hero member like... And after today crash of the reword system even you can't say that everything is good since some blocks are still off and confirmed. Or can you?

valladex no offence. I was just wondering to who are you referring to...
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May 26, 2013, 10:42:05 PM
 #9011

I am too much of a noob to call anyone a newbie, i did notice your sr member status earlier, apologies if i offended.

Ok, sorry. I have to bite again. Anyone can get sr member status. All you have to do is make 250 posts (or is it 300 - something like that). And then that's it. Doesn't actually matter if your posts all say 'hello' - just the quantity that counts...

i know, but dont forget you still gotta get out of newbie hell first(an achievement in itself) and then im still in no position to disrespect anyone, not that i like/intend to be disrespectful.

lucko- general post for any confused newbies deciding on a pool just like i did 5-6 weeks ago.
oroboras
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May 26, 2013, 11:07:24 PM
 #9012

ok, I went through my rewards for the last 30 blocks, and this is my result;

Should have   Actually got
0.00214735    0.00216359    (+0.00001624)
0.00210076    0.00169320    (-0.00040756)
0.00220479    0.00232812    (+0.00012333)
0.00234641    0.00208303    (-0.00026338)
0.00236026    0.00199255    (-0.00036771)
0.00217719    0.00217718    (-0.00000001)
0.00373447    0.00380921    (+0.00007474)
0.00216618    0.00215662    (-0.00000956)
0.00223093    0.00153012    (-0.00070081)
0.00225072    0.00225071    (-0.00000001)
0.00239262    0.00230805    (-0.00008457)
0.00234718    0.00204312    (-0.00030406)
0.00227435    0.00210339    (-0.00017096)
0.00234844    0.00253735    (+0.00018891)
0.00216790    0.00216790    (spot on)
0.00235738    0.00252040    (+0.00016302)
0.00204599    0.00173246    (-0.00031353)
0.00216293    0.00203870    (-0.00012423)
0.00259688    0.00258963    (-0.00000725)
0.00226194    0.00252865    (+0.00026671)
0.00227676    0.00229782    (+0.00002106)
0.00225564    0.00250850    (+0.00025286)
0.00217043    0.00236650    (+0.00019607)
0.00212075    0.00204352    (-0.00007723)
0.00291798    0.00283840    (-0.00007958)
0.00215613    0.00222617    (+0.00007004)
0.00203890    0.00180461    (-0.00023429)
0.00225685    0.00228657    (+0.00002972)
0.00224263    0.00206756    (-0.00017507)
0.00226371    0.00219391    (-0.0000698)
TOTAL           TOTAL           TOTAL DIFF
0.06937445    0.06738754    0.00198691 (OR $0.23)

On average, I should have got 0.002312482 per block

So in 30 blocks, I lost less than one average payment, which doesn't really worry me that much. If I was on some other pools, I'd lose the extra (and more) in fees.

So when I commented on the ups & downs in calculation - I wondered merely if anyone actually took into consideration the positive differences.
Ok, I may have put it into less inflammatory words, I guess. Sorry for that.

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Lucko
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May 26, 2013, 11:28:18 PM
 #9013

ok, I went through my rewards for the last 30 blocks, and this is my result;

Should have   Actually got
0.00214735    0.00216359    (+0.00001624)
0.00210076    0.00169320    (-0.00040756)
0.00220479    0.00232812    (+0.00012333)
0.00234641    0.00208303    (-0.00026338)
0.00236026    0.00199255    (-0.00036771)
0.00217719    0.00217718    (-0.00000001)
0.00373447    0.00380921    (+0.00007474)
0.00216618    0.00215662    (-0.00000956)
0.00223093    0.00153012    (-0.00070081)
0.00225072    0.00225071    (-0.00000001)
0.00239262    0.00230805    (-0.00008457)
0.00234718    0.00204312    (-0.00030406)
0.00227435    0.00210339    (-0.00017096)
0.00234844    0.00253735    (+0.00018891)
0.00216790    0.00216790    (spot on)
0.00235738    0.00252040    (+0.00016302)
0.00204599    0.00173246    (-0.00031353)
0.00216293    0.00203870    (-0.00012423)
0.00259688    0.00258963    (-0.00000725)
0.00226194    0.00252865    (+0.00026671)
0.00227676    0.00229782    (+0.00002106)
0.00225564    0.00250850    (+0.00025286)
0.00217043    0.00236650    (+0.00019607)
0.00212075    0.00204352    (-0.00007723)
0.00291798    0.00283840    (-0.00007958)
0.00215613    0.00222617    (+0.00007004)
0.00203890    0.00180461    (-0.00023429)
0.00225685    0.00228657    (+0.00002972)
0.00224263    0.00206756    (-0.00017507)
0.00226371    0.00219391    (-0.0000698)
TOTAL           TOTAL           TOTAL DIFF
0.06937445    0.06738754    0.00198691 (OR $0.23)

On average, I should have got 0.002312482 per block

So in 30 blocks, I lost less than one average payment, which doesn't really worry me that much. If I was on some other pools, I'd lose the extra (and more) in fees.

So when I commented on the ups & downs in calculation - I wondered merely if anyone actually took into consideration the positive differences.
Ok, I may have put it into less inflammatory words, I guess. Sorry for that.

Friends?
You were lucky. I don't have time to do what you did but you have last line in statistic.
Total:   360867254   50048   0.09695804       757.36552008
So 50048/360867254*757.36552008=0,105037598 and I got 0.09695804.

And that is not full 30 rounds. I was testing if Slush fixed the pool for about 24 hours and about 6 hours was with all miners and lost out on 0.01 BTC. So if I calculate for all miners on this pool for 24 hours that would be 0.04BTC0.03BTC. And if you take 30 days that is 1.2 0.9BTC. If this is not a problem for you it is for me. This is more then 150120$ if every day would be like this one... I can't afford that.

EDIT:And I moved miners in in a middle of a Block and got practicably full reword since I did 1 hour in the run and it was 3 hour run. So teoretecly I lost even more in reword system crash.
oroboras
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May 26, 2013, 11:33:22 PM
 #9014

Well, of course, when my ASICs arrive, it will be of a lot more concern to me.

I guess my low hashrate (and - believe it or not - easy going nature) clouds my judgement a bit.

I wonder what is causing the miscalculations?

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nottm28
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May 26, 2013, 11:36:01 PM
 #9015

Using a bit of simple java to read slush's api - I am now storing all results going forward - here's what I have for the last 96 blocks...

Pretty consistent I find... Note the result for 237575 - I don't mind admitting this was way more than expected and others complained about this block.

block=start_time,duration,reward,hashes,luck,difficulty,confirmations
238076=2013-05-26 22:26:09,0:42:39,0.00722143,10284,0.93,12153411,
238072=2013-05-26 21:43:30,0:35:45,0.00809340,10804,1.03,12153411,
238067=2013-05-26 21:07:45,2:23:55,0.00704795,10595,1.08,12153411,
238052=2013-05-26 18:43:50,0:20:55,0.00641399,10583,0.91,12153411,
238048=2013-05-26 18:22:55,2:14:21,0.00717486,10482,0.94,12153411,
238033=2013-05-26 16:08:34,1:11:51,0.00704562,11814,0.88,12153411,
238029=2013-05-26 14:56:43,2:04:08,0.00745546,10597,0.90,12153411,
238017=2013-05-26 12:52:35,1:14:40,0.00619396,10766,0.88,12153411,
238003=2013-05-26 11:37:55,1:21:22,0.00620576,10772,0.89,12153411,
237996=2013-05-26 10:16:33,1:24:44,0.00733699,10410,0.88,12153411,
237983=2013-05-26 08:51:49,2:13:47,0.00743041,9189,0.90,12153411,
237971=2013-05-26 06:38:02,3:11:30,0.00717705,10238,1.02,12153411,
237951=2013-05-26 03:26:32,2:54:45,0.00710204,10340,1.41,12153411,
237930=2013-05-26 00:31:47,0:33:15,0.00847152,10582,1.08,12153411,
237928=2013-05-25 23:58:32,0:25:35,0.00719589,10502,1.01,12153411,
237921=2013-05-25 23:32:57,1:00:46,0.00725148,10399,0.99,12153411,
237915=2013-05-25 22:32:11,0:26:24,0.00692039,10658,1.01,12153411,
237911=2013-05-25 22:05:47,0:39:06,0.00715212,10543,0.94,12153411,
237904=2013-05-25 21:26:41,0:01:08,0.00719272,10639,0.86,12153411,
237903=2013-05-25 21:25:33,0:28:52,0.00755953,10650,0.86,12153411,
237901=2013-05-25 20:56:41,4:16:32,0.00771986,10560,0.95,12153411,
237878=2013-05-25 16:40:09,2:42:32,0.00676582,10401,0.98,11187257,
237854=2013-05-25 13:57:37,1:33:22,0.00725034,10533,0.99,11187257,
237840=2013-05-25 12:24:15,1:04:10,0.00730492,10564,1.09,11187257,
237833=2013-05-25 11:20:05,0:01:38,0.00736490,10489,1.14,11187257,
237832=2013-05-25 11:18:27,3:04:34,0.00771931,10504,1.14,11187257,
237818=2013-05-25 08:13:53,0:08:27,0.00794650,9750,1.14,11187257,
237817=2013-05-25 08:05:26,1:39:50,0.00806913,9621,1.14,11187257,
237807=2013-05-25 06:25:36,0:29:47,0.00783007,10626,1.13,11187257,
237802=2013-05-25 05:55:49,0:32:47,0.00780047,10622,0.93,11187257,
237799=2013-05-25 05:23:02,0:18:18,0.00785517,10668,0.90,11187257,
237796=2013-05-25 05:04:44,0:44:33,0.00764717,10544,0.87,11187257,
237791=2013-05-25 04:20:11,0:13:41,0.00746889,10642,0.81,11187257,
237789=2013-05-25 04:06:30,0:39:30,0.00735985,10590,0.81,11187257,
237787=2013-05-25 03:27:00,0:05:17,0.00755139,10640,0.77,11187257,
237785=2013-05-25 03:21:43,0:15:41,0.00727747,10611,0.78,11187257,
237784=2013-05-25 03:06:02,1:57:45,0.01005058,10515,0.73,11187257,
237770=2013-05-25 01:08:17,7:13:34,0.00784526,10564,0.96,11187257,
237719=2013-05-24 17:54:43,0:02:26,0.00866961,10413,1.21,11187257,
237718=2013-05-24 17:52:17,0:04:50,0.00671417,10399,1.21,11187257,
237717=2013-05-24 17:47:27,4:38:12,0.00875716,10376,1.08,11187257,
237692=2013-05-24 13:09:15,0:00:47,0.00659933,10251,1.11,11187257,
237691=2013-05-24 13:08:28,0:21:19,0.00809546,10259,1.11,11187257,
237687=2013-05-24 12:47:09,0:49:59,0.00851697,10232,1.10,11187257,
237682=2013-05-24 11:57:10,0:17:29,0.00787294,10179,1.08,11187257,
237679=2013-05-24 11:39:41,1:46:36,0.00817001,10088,1.09,11187257,
237666=2013-05-24 09:53:05,1:41:22,0.00733902,10022,1.15,11187257,
237652=2013-05-24 08:11:43,0:18:19,0.00839849,9551,1.15,11187257,
237648=2013-05-24 07:53:24,0:05:31,0.00743627,9637,1.03,11187257,
237647=2013-05-24 07:47:53,1:48:51,0.00808714,9718,1.03,11187257,
237634=2013-05-24 05:59:02,5:59:04,0.00805881,9854,1.37,11187257,
237593=2013-05-23 23:59:58,2:17:42,0.00833270,9817,1.45,11187257,
237575=2013-05-23 21:34:50,0:07:57,0.02476670,10034,1.38,11187257,
237574=2013-05-23 21:42:16,0:07:26,0.00742560,9665,1.38,11187257,
237573=2013-05-23 21:26:53,0:06:46,0.00705477,9984,1.38,11187257,
237571=2013-05-23 21:20:07,0:28:39,0.00750324,9964,1.38,11187257,
237567=2013-05-23 20:51:28,2:06:53,0.00531363,9869,1.32,11187257,
237559=2013-05-23 18:44:35,1:40:46,0.00840785,9782,1.36,11187257,
237546=2013-05-23 17:03:49,0:12:37,0.00849736,10025,1.22,11187257,
237543=2013-05-23 16:51:12,0:18:22,0.00750947,10025,1.17,11187257,
237541=2013-05-23 16:32:50,0:09:48,0.00772226,9895,1.09,11187257,
237540=2013-05-23 16:23:02,0:37:17,0.00812397,9867,1.09,11187257,
237534=2013-05-23 15:45:45,3:00:18,0.00925976,9716,1.18,11187257,
237517=2013-05-23 12:45:27,0:15:24,0.00806292,9663,1.23,11187257,
237515=2013-05-23 12:30:03,0:41:01,0.00737965,9567,1.18,11187257,
237506=2013-05-23 11:49:02,1:40:20,0.00873779,9401,1.20,11187257,
237495=2013-05-23 10:08:42,0:37:26,0.00868290,9416,1.26,11187257,
237493=2013-05-23 09:31:16,2:23:19,0.00842615,9206,1.35,11187257,
237468=2013-05-23 07:07:57,0:26:47,0.00878185,9515,1.18,11187257,
237463=2013-05-23 06:41:10,0:58:02,0.00763858,9457,1.17,11187257,
237455=2013-05-23 05:43:08,0:12:24,0.00729014,9475,1.06,11187257,
237454=2013-05-23 05:30:44,0:37:06,0.00768914,9348,1.06,11187257,
237447=2013-05-23 04:53:38,3:17:55,0.00802322,8912,1.17,11187257,
237430=2013-05-23 01:35:43,0:04:00,0.00742885,9404,1.06,11187257,
237429=2013-05-23 01:31:43,0:06:52,0.00844826,9387,1.06,11187257,
237427=2013-05-23 01:24:51,0:13:37,0.00872385,9399,1.02,11187257,
237426=2013-05-23 01:11:14,0:25:39,0.00872593,9450,1.00,11187257,
237423=2013-05-23 00:45:35,0:07:22,0.00838761,9474,1.03,11187257,
237422=2013-05-23 00:38:13,4:04:19,0.00840443,9444,1.03,11187257,
237404=2013-05-22 20:33:54,2:16:21,0.00872369,9649,1.03,11187257,
237396=2013-05-22 18:17:33,3:04:10,0.00841272,9377,1.10,11187257,
237373=2013-05-22 15:13:23,0:16:44,0.00714505,9546,1.06,11187257,
237371=2013-05-22 14:56:39,1:26:03,0.00824117,9459,1.07,11187257,
237358=2013-05-22 13:30:36,0:18:05,0.00772997,9566,0.90,11187257,
237355=2013-05-22 13:12:31,1:26:50,0.01115425,9484,0.90,11187257,
237343=2013-05-22 11:45:41,0:09:11,0.00820818,9427,0.90,11187257,
237340=2013-05-22 11:36:30,1:28:06,0.00911549,9351,0.84,11187257,
237331=2013-05-22 10:08:24,0:05:28,0.00823078,9468,0.74,11187257,
237330=2013-05-22 10:02:56,0:45:39,0.00851554,9419,0.74,11187257,
237322=2013-05-22 09:17:17,3:48:29,0.00851632,9354,0.80,11187257,
237296=2013-05-22 05:28:48,1:38:40,0.00833779,9147,0.77,11187257,
237286=2013-05-22 03:50:08,2:18:08,0.02264307,9074,0.77,11187257,
237274=2013-05-22 01:32:00,0:22:36,0.00856823,9147,0.66,11187257,
237270=2013-05-22 01:09:24,0:44:11,0.00845058,9200,0.66,11187257,
237265=2013-05-22 00:25:13,2:00:35,0.00891731,9017,0.65,11187257,

[EDIT] my post is longer than yours Smiley

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oroboras
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May 26, 2013, 11:39:25 PM
 #9016

I wonder if the total volume is balanced out across the pool?

i.e. if x people are being underpaid, are y people being overpaid on that block, equal to the full volume of BTC per that block?

Or is there a deficit?

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autonomous42
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May 26, 2013, 11:50:21 PM
 #9017

I wonder if the total volume is balanced out across the pool?

i.e. if x people are being underpaid, are y people being overpaid on that block, equal to the full volume of BTC per that block?

Or is there a deficit?

Probably more than 30 pages ago did we see these problems happen for some people while others get extra. When the issues were new, some reported getting just dust and someone else chimed in "I guess I got all that lol".  Just last night I saw my estimate go to .22 BTC (it's usually around .0022) but the round had the nerve to continue another hour and I got a normal reward. Maybe this is all an elaborate bonus system  Shocked

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May 26, 2013, 11:59:27 PM
 #9018

I wonder if the total volume is balanced out across the pool?

i.e. if x people are being underpaid, are y people being overpaid on that block, equal to the full volume of BTC per that block?

Or is there a deficit?
No it is balanced out. nottm28 is example of this. He got 4 times normal on one of the blocks and it didn't get fixed so my guess is that system didn't detect a mistake. As I was saying. I saw 20% mistake not being fixed so for positive mistake this number must be much higher. But the number of underpaid is bigger then number of overpaid. I newer got overpaid or even see mistake in positive direction so I guess it must be a number of underpaid allot bigger then overpaid or they are always the same peoples.

EDIT: Probably if I would not be afraid that Slush will fixed this I could say to myself that it will balance out. But Slush might came back and start taking care of his pool and if I would be just loosing out till then... Well you get the idea...
oroboras
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May 27, 2013, 12:03:10 AM
 #9019

I wonder if the total volume is balanced out across the pool?

i.e. if x people are being underpaid, are y people being overpaid on that block, equal to the full volume of BTC per that block?

Or is there a deficit?
No it is balanced out. nottm28 is example of this. He got 4 times normal on one of the blocks and it didn't get fixed so my guess is that system didn't detect a mistake. As I was saying. I saw 20% mistake not being fixed so for positive mistake this number must be much higher. But the number of underpaid is bigger then number of overpaid. I newer got overpaid or even see mistake in positive direction so I guess it must be a number of underpaid allot bigger then overpaid or they are always the same peoples.

I guess it may is occur by miner, rather than worker - so someone with a larger share rate has a better chance of gaining from the error.
 Thanks for the info.

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nottm28
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May 27, 2013, 12:15:05 AM
 #9020

I wonder if the total volume is balanced out across the pool?

i.e. if x people are being underpaid, are y people being overpaid on that block, equal to the full volume of BTC per that block?

Or is there a deficit?
No it is balanced out. nottm28 is example of this. He got 4 times normal on one of the blocks and it didn't get fixed so my guess is that system didn't detect a mistake. As I was saying. I saw 20% mistake not being fixed so for positive mistake this number must be much higher. But the number of underpaid is bigger then number of overpaid. I newer got overpaid or even see mistake in positive direction so I guess it must be a number of underpaid allot bigger then overpaid or they are always the same peoples.

I guess it may is occur by miner, rather than worker - so someone with a larger share rate has a better chance of gaining from the error.
 Thanks for the info.

I have had several blocks where my reward was well under too - but these were prior to java app recording the results so I cannot show. And as 'autonomous42' pointed out when he quoted someone as saying 'lol I got the lot' - that was one of the blocks where my reward was almost zarro. So I think we can assume that for the occasional problem blocks, someone in the pool is benefiting. But I guess it balances out over time...

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