Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[K1773R]

gee, is there a good fairy out there that can fix mine ?

opened a Cryptsy ticket but from what i just read they mightn't do anything about it ...

ie:
 {
        "account" : "",
        "address" : "AWxGtEJitS5CCkKEvvgfjFbEmUxJdk1XS4",
        "category" : "receive",
        "amount" : 1589.97000000,
        "confirmations" : 0,
        "txid" : "f615e8772e65dcf1da14154a9926df7e07f30b534745ce980760ff0b3a17aee6",
        "time" : 1410990406,
        "timereceived" : 1410990406
    }

Yes there is

Another one seem to be stuck, this one is only ~1250 ANC
d6b868e340e9b151df4c99f72a2f4151486f8e0a74eb57c75b82c6c9a5f809bc

Thanks to K1773R for mining these transactions. I have notified cryptsy support as well of this bug.

Here we go, faster than i expected
http://abe.darkgamex.ch:2751/block/1e851af58a0a4068cc96f220dd391c4bf6a69fb7cff77beeaa2138de20b45b4f

[lunokhod2]

.... TO CLARIFY

Zerocoin and Zerocash
-https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Zerocoin
-https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Zerocash
-https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg2983902#msg2983902 (scroll down a little further to read about Zerocoin)

Everybody asked about how big Transactions are going to be, no real answer has been given yet. Gnosis estimated it would cost more than 50x fees. However, why do you think this needs to be tested first?

Way too much Concerned
Most of you guys are too much concerned whether it might work or find more and more disadvantages. Why don't you invest a little and wait for a while. There is no way for you to find out much more about this tech if you are not a programmer or don't have a simple understanding of it.

As far as I understand it, the transaction size is exactly the same size as a normal ANC transcation. The only thing that differs is that when you spend a zerocoin, there is extra information that is added to a temporary database, which eventually gets deleted.

[gunzeon]

gee, is there a good fairy out there that can fix mine ?

opened a Cryptsy ticket but from what i just read they mightn't do anything about it ...

ie:
 {
        "account" : "",
        "address" : "AWxGtEJitS5CCkKEvvgfjFbEmUxJdk1XS4",
        "category" : "receive",
        "amount" : 1589.97000000,
        "confirmations" : 0,
        "txid" : "f615e8772e65dcf1da14154a9926df7e07f30b534745ce980760ff0b3a17aee6",
        "time" : 1410990406,
        "timereceived" : 1410990406
    }

Yes there is

Another one seem to be stuck, this one is only ~1250 ANC
d6b868e340e9b151df4c99f72a2f4151486f8e0a74eb57c75b82c6c9a5f809bc

Thanks to K1773R for mining these transactions. I have notified cryptsy support as well of this bug.

Here we go, faster than i expected
http://abe.darkgamex.ch:2751/block/1e851af58a0a4068cc96f220dd391c4bf6a69fb7cff77beeaa2138de20b45b4f

Many thanks K1773R, you truly are a champion!!!

I saw that there is 404 inputs to that transaction; does that mean that miners pass on it or something ?

Does all that small change mean so much more work ? Dam work's gotta get done anyway, why isn't it just queued in a sequence and they do it like it or not, rather than cherry pick ..

Maybe a 1500 ANC xfer equals whale status :-)

[Simcom]

My posts on /r/anoncoin are getting stuck in the spam filter - Meeh or Gnosis could you check the modmail?  I'll help mod the subreddit if you guys are interested.

Also there was some good press today - http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/09/18/can-anoncoin-be-the-currency-of-the-deep-web/

[Simcom]

trending on /r/darknetmarkets

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/2gs3de/can_anoncoin_be_the_currency_of_the_deep_web/

[SmokingSkull]

My posts on /r/anoncoin are getting stuck in the spam filter - Meeh or Gnosis could you check the modmail?  I'll help mod the subreddit if you guys are interested.

Also there was some good press today - http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/09/18/can-anoncoin-be-the-currency-of-the-deep-web/

Anoncoin doesn't use Zerocash?!

It's Anoncoin - Zerocoin; not Anoncoin - Zerocash
I'd rewrite this article...
I like it though, except this confusion with Zerocash,

[Gnosis-]

My posts on /r/anoncoin are getting stuck in the spam filter - Meeh or Gnosis could you check the modmail?  I'll help mod the subreddit if you guys are interested.

Also there was some good press today - http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/09/18/can-anoncoin-be-the-currency-of-the-deep-web/

Anoncoin doesn't use Zerocash?!

It's Anoncoin - Zerocoin; not Anoncoin - Zerocash
I'd rewrite this article...
I like it though, except this confusion with Zerocash,

Yeah, the author mixed up Zerocoin and Zerocash, Proof-of-Stake and Proof-of-Work (not talking about Anoncoin in this case), and probably other details...

[mathgal23]

Great news!!!!

I believe our anonymous technology will be the best in crpyto upon release (with the bytecoin clones in 2nd place). Our methods are superior to the competition attempting a zerocoin/zerocash system because AFAIK we are the only ones using RSA UFOs

Here is Shadowcoin devs (sdcoin) response to zk-snarks issue as defined by Gnosis.  It looks like our approach is better as we are using RSA UFOs to ensure our implementation is trustless:

The parameter generation, in a non-interactive zero knowledge system is always going to be an issue, unless its created through a consensus..
Interactive would mean you'd need the other party to be online to redeem your input, so we're working on a way of sending your funds into infinity, where they will be redeemed from infinity.
At a base level there's always going to be some sort of mixing involved, whether its destroying/minting, or whether its using some sort of tokens, etc..

Can someone respond to this:

http://zerocash-project.org/

"Zerocash improves on an earlier protocol, Zerocoin, developed by some of the same authors, both in functionality (Zerocoin only hides a payment's origin, but not its destination or amount) and in efficiency (Zerocash transactions are less than 1KB and take less than 6ms to verify)."

What will the size of our Zerocoin transactions be?

If the transactions are large and blockchain bloat is an issue, is there a way we can develop a "lite" wallet such as used by Shadowcoin (who is also working on zk-snarks btw). Spending Zerocoins from mobile devices (without a ton of storage space) would be a great feature!

Besides RSA UFO generation (to ensure Zerocoin can be minted in a trust free manner) does Zerocoin have any other advantages over Zerocash?

Zerocoin mint transactions will be only slightly larger than normal transactions, with about 128 bytes per minted coin.
Zerocoin spend transactions will have a small part that lives in the blockchain, and then about 125 KB that does not get stored in the blockchain.

Using 8 cores on a 2.4GHz Core i7, Zerocoin spends would take about 3 seconds to generate, and 0.5 s to verify. It's not completely out of the question that a modern smartphone with an optimized libzerocoin could do this, with some battery drain.

Minting zerocoins, storing them, and using Anoncoin balances that were previously received from zerocoins could all be handled easily by a mobile app.

I don't think anybody knows a procedure for generating the zk-SNARK parameters in a manner that doesn't require trust from the users. There's no way for an outside party to prove that they destroyed the sensitive data used to generate the parameters; anybody who has access to this data would be able to create unlimited currency units, completely destroying the currency. Worse, it would go undetected until it hits the exchanges and the value plummets. This is why it's so important to have trustless parameter generation!

[Gnosis-]

My posts on /r/anoncoin are getting stuck in the spam filter - Meeh or Gnosis could you check the modmail?  I'll help mod the subreddit if you guys are interested.

Also there was some good press today - http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/09/18/can-anoncoin-be-the-currency-of-the-deep-web/

Your posts are all approved; I reduced the spam filter sensitivity, so this should not happen much in the future. I also added /r/DarknetMarkets to the sidebar.

Do you know much about CSS styles for Reddit, and how to add our new logo where the reddit alien is at the top-left?

[SmokingSkull]

My posts on /r/anoncoin are getting stuck in the spam filter - Meeh or Gnosis could you check the modmail?  I'll help mod the subreddit if you guys are interested.

Also there was some good press today - http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/09/18/can-anoncoin-be-the-currency-of-the-deep-web/

Your posts are all approved; I reduced the spam filter sensitivity, so this should not happen much in the future. I also added /r/DarknetMarkets to the sidebar.

Do you know much about CSS styles for Reddit, and how to add our new logo where the reddit alien is at the top-left?

Hm, I got an example here Gnosis if you want you can try it out:

Step 1: Download this image http://postimg.org/image/kto2ajo67/ name it "drawing" and upload it in the stylesheet section on reddit

Step 2: Go to the Stylesheet Edit on Reddit and add

Code:

#header-img.default-header
{

background: url(%%drawing%%);

background-position: left;
vertical-align:bottom;
background-size: cover;
}

[Gnosis-]

I was graphing the coin supply vs. time today (for fun  ) and noticed something odd.

I used this description in the wiki to make the graph:

Coin details
Anoncoin was originally a fork of the Litecoin source code. The creation of new coins is by the reward to miners for processing transactions into blocks that are added to the block chain, where mining is performed by proof of work using the scrypt hashing function. A total of 4.2 million coins can be mined into existence, which is 5 times less than the maximum supply of Bitcoin, and transactions are processed, on average, every 3 minutes. The current block reward is 5 ANC, and this will be halved to 2.5 on approximately January 22, 2015. The block reward distribution schedule is the following: 4.2 ANC for blocks until 42,000; 7 ANC until block 77,777; 5 ANC until block 384,377; and then halving of block rewards every 306,600 blocks (which is approximately every two years).

block   coins   block reward
1           4           4.2
42,000   176,400   4.2
77,777   426,839   7
384,377   1,959,839   5
690,977   2,726,339   2.5
997,577   3,109,589   1.25
1,304,177   3,301,214   0.625
1,610,777   3,397,027   0.3125
1,917,377   3,444,933   0.15625
2,223,977   3,468,886   0.078125
2,530,577   3,480,862   0.0390625
2,837,177   3,486,851   0.01953125
3,143,777   3,489,845   0.009765625
3,450,377   3,491,342   0.004882813
3,756,977   3,492,090   0.002441406

As you can see the max supply converges on 3.492 million not 4.2 million.  Where did I go wrong here?



The red dot is where we are currently.

Can we get one of the devs to weigh in on this?  I'm pretty sure the math is right, so either the wiki is wrong when it describes the emission curve OR the actual max # of coins is 700k lower than what is quoted everywhere.

Actually the correct total number of ANC is neither 3.492 million nor 4.2 million; it is about 3.1 million (to be exact, it will be 3103954.760142 ANC after about 50 years). The reason it differs from what you calculated is because the block reward halves whenever the block height is a multiple of 306600.

I know 4.2 million was quoted in various places, but that was a mistake made early on and happened to not be caught until recently. All Anoncoin clients are setup to max out at 3.1 million ANC.

[Gnosis-]

My posts on /r/anoncoin are getting stuck in the spam filter - Meeh or Gnosis could you check the modmail?  I'll help mod the subreddit if you guys are interested.

Also there was some good press today - http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/09/18/can-anoncoin-be-the-currency-of-the-deep-web/

Your posts are all approved; I reduced the spam filter sensitivity, so this should not happen much in the future. I also added /r/DarknetMarkets to the sidebar.

Do you know much about CSS styles for Reddit, and how to add our new logo where the reddit alien is at the top-left?

Hm, I got an example here Gnosis if you want you can try it out:

Step 1: Download this image http://postimg.org/image/kto2ajo67/ name it "drawing" and upload it in the stylesheet section on reddit

Step 2: Go to the Stylesheet Edit on Reddit and add

Code:

#header-img.default-header
{

background: url(%%drawing%%);

background-position: left;
vertical-align:bottom;
background-size: cover;
}

Hey, it looks good! Thanks!

[alincoln]

VERSUS...

One more fail to try discredit me. He respond about transaction size and speed but what about:
Zerocoin doesn't hide coin destination and amount.
Then if the number of people who contributed to the zerocoin pool for denomination is small, it will be very easy to analyze the blockchain and find where they come from.

Gnosis is not needed to answer this one, as it's a very weak claim. There will only be a handful of denominations (maybe one for each order of magnitude?), and one can only guess a given spend came from someone who has ever contributed to the pool of that denomination. As the number of people who contributed to a denomination only increases with time, the likehood the blockchain can be analyzed based on that information only decreases, rapidly becoming negligible.

[Simcom]

My posts on /r/anoncoin are getting stuck in the spam filter - Meeh or Gnosis could you check the modmail?  I'll help mod the subreddit if you guys are interested.

Also there was some good press today - http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/09/18/can-anoncoin-be-the-currency-of-the-deep-web/

Your posts are all approved; I reduced the spam filter sensitivity, so this should not happen much in the future. I also added /r/DarknetMarkets to the sidebar.

Do you know much about CSS styles for Reddit, and how to add our new logo where the reddit alien is at the top-left?

Sure I can work on the style, I'm not an expert but I have done it a couple times and it turned out ok.  Thanks for unspamming my stuff.

[Simcom]

I was graphing the coin supply vs. time today (for fun  ) and noticed something odd.

I used this description in the wiki to make the graph:

Coin details
Anoncoin was originally a fork of the Litecoin source code. The creation of new coins is by the reward to miners for processing transactions into blocks that are added to the block chain, where mining is performed by proof of work using the scrypt hashing function. A total of 4.2 million coins can be mined into existence, which is 5 times less than the maximum supply of Bitcoin, and transactions are processed, on average, every 3 minutes. The current block reward is 5 ANC, and this will be halved to 2.5 on approximately January 22, 2015. The block reward distribution schedule is the following: 4.2 ANC for blocks until 42,000; 7 ANC until block 77,777; 5 ANC until block 384,377; and then halving of block rewards every 306,600 blocks (which is approximately every two years).

block   coins   block reward
1           4           4.2
42,000   176,400   4.2
77,777   426,839   7
384,377   1,959,839   5
690,977   2,726,339   2.5
997,577   3,109,589   1.25
1,304,177   3,301,214   0.625
1,610,777   3,397,027   0.3125
1,917,377   3,444,933   0.15625
2,223,977   3,468,886   0.078125
2,530,577   3,480,862   0.0390625
2,837,177   3,486,851   0.01953125
3,143,777   3,489,845   0.009765625
3,450,377   3,491,342   0.004882813
3,756,977   3,492,090   0.002441406

As you can see the max supply converges on 3.492 million not 4.2 million.  Where did I go wrong here?

Edit: image deleted

The red dot is where we are currently.

Can we get one of the devs to weigh in on this?  I'm pretty sure the math is right, so either the wiki is wrong when it describes the emission curve OR the actual max # of coins is 700k lower than what is quoted everywhere.

Actually the correct total number of ANC is neither 3.492 million nor 4.2 million; it is about 3.1 million (to be exact, it will be 3103954.760142 ANC after about 50 years). The reason it differs from what you calculated is because the block reward halves whenever the block height is a multiple of 306600.

I know 4.2 million was quoted in various places, but that was a mistake made early on and happened to not be caught until recently. All Anoncoin clients are setup to max out at 3.1 million ANC.

Thanks!  Mystery solved.  I'll update my calculations and post a new chart.  I guess this means the next halving is actually much sooner than I had thought.
Edit: New emission chart below (we are currently at the red spot)



This is great news for investors, only 63,300 blocks until the halving!

That puts it at approximately: Jan 27th 2015

[Simcom]

I guess this means the next halving is actually much sooner than I had thought.

This is great news for investors, only 63,300 blocks until the halving!

That puts it at approximately: Jan 27th 2015

Wrong, that doesn't change the next halving estimation. Only the total ANC emission.
I'm not sure if this is a great news or a bad news. We need whales to absorb 316,500 ANC in four months. In all cases, you done a good job to find and solve this rookie mistake. Congrats
Meeh must to reward you

The price increase when gnosis finishes ZC is all the reward I need.

[WDL]

The problem with metaphors is they don't address any specific issues, rather they just amplify fears that understandably exist for all new systems. I suggest metaphor is a poor tool for your argument.

People should do what they want but some additional advice you might offer is to be cautious of people (such as yourself) who are obviously not newbies writing criticisms on one coin page under newbie accounts.

Fair?

The problem you cite with metaphors is your own issue. If you don't understand it you have the choice of jumping on the bandwagon and criticizing or asking for clarification. You choose the bandwagon. Fine.

Zerocoin's development process with regard to anc is deeply flawed and there is very little likelihood any resdulting algo will actually be implemented for any significant length of time.

It starts with a project that was abandoned by some fairly competent people then adds a patch that is ridiculous.

There are scam warning signs all around this project starting with the absurdity of rsa ufo's.

It's almost funny how stupid people can be. Zerocoin is a scam. It may have started with good intentions but anyone who has looked through it knows what is going on. Make some money on the pump if you like. No doubt someone has been making money placing trades based on news about zerocoin.

YES,Bitcoin is a scam,too.and Gavin Andresen who said zerocoin can  join bitcoin protocol smoothly is a liar obviously.

[drAGon925]

May I suggest that we stop mining ANC, and let it how it is on 1.2M

I think drk do that from 84M to 22M

 

This was a joke, but I like this mistake 4.2vs3.1, colecting RR coins!

 

[sorrros]

Therefore I recommend a Proof of Developer Analysis:
http://cryptoasian.com/

Gnosis, is that possible?

Keep in mind I'm not a serious cryptographer, just an implementer of crypto
Source: https://pay.reddit.com/r/ZeroCoin/comments/1uy35p/matthew_green_to_speak_about_new_zerocoin_version/

Nice to see you online Gnosis. Is the "Proof of Developer Analysis" possible to do with you or not?

Isn't PoD analysis just to screen scam coins before they launch? A 1 year+ history of ANC beats any so-called analysis... 

[SmokingSkull]

I mean PoD is a good idea. But who is to say that the issuer of these "PoD-Stars" is even legit.

In addition he gave 5 "stars" and a "plus" to somebody this CryptoAsian didn't even see face to face.

Since almost every Altcoin is a thought out scam, I'd be careful what to think of such things. The proof I need is already here, anoncoin existing over 1 year and devs are still working on the code. Find another Altcoin which has the same history, you will find almost none.