Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[ToxicDartFrog]

<user with 4 activity attempting to troll>

[1714815645]

1714815645

[Simcom]

I don't get it.  What does someone have to gain by trolling?  All of these threads on bitcointalk are filled with trolls, why? what is the point exactly?  The most that can happen is maybe they can succeed in depressing the price maybe 10% with some hardcore sustained trolling.  If you can't short the coin, what's the point in trying to depress the price? 

[Simcom]

<user with 4 activity attempting to troll>

toxic fart dog? seriously?

I don't get it.  What does someone have to gain by trolling?  All of these threads on bitcointalk are filled with trolls, why? what is the point exactly?  The most that can happen is maybe they can succeed in depressing the price maybe 10% with some hardcore sustained trolling.  If you can't short the coin, what's the point in trying to depress the price?  

If someone disagrees with your position why is it trolling? Is that how to win an argument? Call the other a troll?

You can ask someone outside the issue to review it and decide whether everything looks tidy with zerocoin. There are 6 or so people who are faithful supporters of any decision. And probably many dozens who are doubtful but have either been selling or are holding and do not want to push the price down.

Here is a quick timeline.

February 2014. zerocoin will be released in May. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309716.msg5104472#msg5104472

April 2014. zerocoin is a month or two from release. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344911.msg6359224#msg6359224

 April 2014. A donor throws $5k into the donation pot. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227287.msg6366123#msg6366123

May 2014. The irony of this post. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=607919.msg6862028#msg6862028

and on and on.

Now more donations are needed for the project to be finished in, you guessed, one or two months.

zerocoin itself is not a practical solution to anonymity. And rsa ufo is not a patch for the flaws that exist.

And now? You disagree so again you will whine about how I am a troll. What are the facts?

I'm just trying to understand what motivates you (and others) who spend so much effort posting and reposing to this and other threads.  If you have no faith in this coin why even bother following the developments and reading the the thread?  Why not move on to something you think will succeed?  I just don't get it. I can think of a dozen coins I think are complete shit, but you couldn't pay me to spend my time posting in their threads arguing with the various bagholders. What motivates you to spend your time in this thread?

[niteglider]

What are the facts?
 

 
 

The facts are that all you can demonstrate is that there have been unexpected delays, which is common in software development,
particularly when new tech is being invented or fine tuned.  We all know about the delays.

As to your other claims, you have shown no evidence whatsoever.

But you did troll with a pic from a very traumatic accident which I personally remember very well.  That in itself speaks
volumes regarding your character... as if all the unsubstantiated negativity towards Gnosis and his work wasn't enough.

I will waste no more time with you... you are ignored.

[CoinHoarder]

I'm just trying to understand what motivates you (and others) who spend so much effort posting and reposing to this and other threads.  If you have no faith in this coin why even bother following the developments and reading the the thread?  Why not move on to something you think will succeed?  I just don't get it. I can think of a dozen coins I think are complete shit, but you couldn't pay me to spend my time posting in their threads arguing with the various bagholders. What motivates you to spend your time in this thread?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think it is the same group of shills that have been attacking Monero. My guess is that it is an organized effort from another Cryptonote coin, Darkcoin, or Bitcoindark to discredit other anonymous cryptocurrencies.

[niteglider]

I'm just trying to understand what motivates you (and others) who spend so much effort posting and reposing to this and other threads.  If you have no faith in this coin why even bother following the developments and reading the the thread?  Why not move on to something you think will succeed?  I just don't get it. I can think of a dozen coins I think are complete shit, but you couldn't pay me to spend my time posting in their threads arguing with the various bagholders. What motivates you to spend your time in this thread?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think it is the same group of shills that have been attacking Monero. My guess is that it is an organized effort from another Cryptonote coin, Darkcoin, or Bitcoindark to discredit other anonymous cryptocurrencies.

+1

If these idiots actually knew anything they would put it out here instead of the vague 'this is shit,' and 'what are this guy's qualifications?' kind of bs.  Given many opportunities to demonstrate any kind of actual knowledge about the things they are trying so desperately to discredit, they have done nothing but post the same stupid repetitive crap.

'This is not suitable, or that won't work,' is all they say but they have absolutely nothing to back up the claims.  They have no idea at all regarding the things they are claiming. 

They are most likely cut and paste copycats who are afraid that someone else actually knows what they are doing, and that the scam coins they have forked will be absolutely worthless when ANC's devs current project is complete.  If they hold any ANC it's because they know they are fools who are very likely to fail, and they are holding as much of everything else that they can on the off chance that one will hit big and they will finally be able to move out of their moms' basements.

My guess is that they are everything they accuse others of being.

One thing I have noticed in life is that very little people tend to try to knock others down in order to feel bigger.

[WDL]

Troll is part of the bitcointalk ecosystem.
Actually our dear trolls have a good knowledge of zerocoin and devote a lot of enthusiasm to ANC project
I would not be surprised if they celebrate the success of the project

[varun555]

BTC has given up 400 dollars position today.  This continuous slide of value in BTC only expedites the race of other alt coins to substitute it. And ANC should definitely be in the race !!!!!!

[SmokingSkull]

BTC has given up 400 dollars position today.  This continuous slide of value in BTC only expedites the race of other alt coins to substitute it. And ANC should definitely be in the race !!!!!!

Well, It should be ... Let's see how it all goes. I'm still pretty uncertain whether Anoncoin will ever hit 10 Mio marketcap.
Despite all that...

People should mine Anoncoins ... we are on 9-GH/s now ... could be higher

[SmokingSkull]

If you guys, read my last posts and try to understand my allegations, you will see that I'm not here to troll but to help Anoncoin for the long run. I don't care about PumpnDump.
The greatest paradox is that you all want an anonymous currency because you don't trust the current banking system but at the same time you give your complete trust in Gnosis.

The RSA-UFO is a nonsense and I will explain you why in two different kind of views.
1) In simple words, the RSA problem is the possibility of reversing the encryption function. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_problem
To make things more difficult, Gnosis removed the small factors with the RSA-UFO project to increase the probability to have two large prime numbers but all is based on probabilities and actual computational capabilities. It will be just a question of time to someone break these 13 RSA UFOs and generate infinite ANC. Source: https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
I know Gnosis alleged that he will generate long RSA-UFOs to avoid this problem but the computational capabilities evolve very fast and we can't create a strong system based on probabilities and assumptions.

2) Ok, now I consider that you trust the RSA encryption and you believe it would take decades to break. But what if Gnosis genereate these 13 RSA-UFOs by himself to know the two prime factors P and Q?
There is no way to setup the accumulators without trusting someone (in our case Gnosis). Gnosis can tell us he will use the trustless RSA-UFO system to generate the 13 RSA-UFOs but we can't be sure that he will really use it. If he generate them by himself, he will be able to create infinite ANC from nothing. I don't think it's necessary to explain the consequences of such an event.

Even if you trust in the good faith of Gnosis, there is an high risk to let an inexperienced person do this work. If there is any mistake or if he don't destroy correctly and physically all datas about this generation, someone could use it against ANC in the future and totally discredit or destroy ANC.

In conclusion, the implementation of zerocoin is doomed to failure because of the problems I described.
For a strong future, ANC have much more to improve than implement Zerocoin like I said in my last post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227287.msg8903880#msg8903880

Now, if the only things sheep care is the PumpnDump to make dollars, then good luck and be fast because when people will realize, the dump will be hard.

EDIT: @ WDL: Yes I'm concerned to the ANC project because I hold still a big quantity of ANC.

RSA_UFO ... the zk_Snark parameters require trust from the users... that's why gnosis tries to implement the trustless parameter gen ... with rsa ufos ... which can be generated in a trustless manner. So it would be just as hard to generate the private key for the issuer.

You don't address the problem of RSA UFOs correctly... there are issues with it but you don't mention the real issues in detail.

I'm sorry but what you are saying is just not entirely true

[SmokingSkull]

If you guys, read my last posts and try to understand my allegations, you will see that I'm not here to troll but to help Anoncoin for the long run. I don't care about PumpnDump.
The greatest paradox is that you all want an anonymous currency because you don't trust the current banking system but at the same time you give your complete trust in Gnosis.

The RSA-UFO is a nonsense and I will explain you why in two different kind of views.
1) In simple words, the RSA problem is the possibility of reversing the encryption function. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_problem
To make things more difficult, Gnosis removed the small factors with the RSA-UFO project to increase the probability to have two large prime numbers but all is based on probabilities and actual computational capabilities. It will be just a question of time to someone break these 13 RSA UFOs and generate infinite ANC. Source: https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
I know Gnosis alleged that he will generate long RSA-UFOs to avoid this problem but the computational capabilities evolve very fast and we can't create a strong system based on probabilities and assumptions.

2) Ok, now I consider that you trust the RSA encryption and you believe it would take decades to break. But what if Gnosis genereate these 13 RSA-UFOs by himself to know the two prime factors P and Q?
There is no way to setup the accumulators without trusting someone (in our case Gnosis). Gnosis can tell us he will use the trustless RSA-UFO system to generate the 13 RSA-UFOs but we can't be sure that he will really use it. If he generate them by himself, he will be able to create infinite ANC from nothing. I don't think it's necessary to explain the consequences of such an event.

Even if you trust in the good faith of Gnosis, there is an high risk to let an inexperienced person do this work. If there is any mistake or if he don't destroy correctly and physically all datas about this generation, someone could use it against ANC in the future and totally discredit or destroy ANC.

In conclusion, the implementation of zerocoin is doomed to failure because of the problems I described.
For a strong future, ANC have much more to improve than implement Zerocoin like I said in my last post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227287.msg8903880#msg8903880

Now, if the only things sheep care is the PumpnDump to make dollars, then good luck and be fast because when people will realize, the dump will be hard.

EDIT: @ WDL: Yes I'm concerned to the ANC project because I hold still a big quantity of ANC.

I'm sorry but what you are saying is just not entirely true

Don't be sorry, you're just blinded by your investment.

Not really. Okay let's address the issue.

1. It depends on how many bit RSA UFO were factored, as well as how many UFOs
2. The RSA UFOs are secure against the people who created it ... HOW secure ... that depends on the factored bits.

You did not ever say something about this ... you simply left it out in your comments. And I find that more trolling than anything else, because you did not address the issue in a way it should be.

EDIT: "probabilities and actual computational capabilities" Yes.. it is based on that, but so is any Key, because you can break any private key with the right amount of computational power.. the only quesiton is HOW MUCH is needed and if possibile.. is it cost effective

[Apraksin]

I'm just trying to understand what motivates you (and others) who spend so much effort posting and reposing to this and other threads.  If you have no faith in this coin why even bother following the developments and reading the the thread?  Why not move on to something you think will succeed?  I just don't get it. I can think of a dozen coins I think are complete shit, but you couldn't pay me to spend my time posting in their threads arguing with the various bagholders. What motivates you to spend your time in this thread?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think it is the same group of shills that have been attacking Monero. My guess is that it is an organized effort from another Cryptonote coin, Darkcoin, or Bitcoindark to discredit other anonymous cryptocurrencies.

Yep, rsa_ufo_attack more or less made it plain where he's coming from.

[matthewh3]

I'm just trying to understand what motivates you (and others) who spend so much effort posting and reposing to this and other threads.  If you have no faith in this coin why even bother following the developments and reading the the thread?  Why not move on to something you think will succeed?  I just don't get it. I can think of a dozen coins I think are complete shit, but you couldn't pay me to spend my time posting in their threads arguing with the various bagholders. What motivates you to spend your time in this thread?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think it is the same group of shills that have been attacking Monero. My guess is that it is an organized effort from another Cryptonote coin, Darkcoin, or Bitcoindark to discredit other anonymous cryptocurrencies.

Yep, rsa_ufo_attack more or less made it plain where he's coming from.

Yeah they're all brand new accounts created very recently to attack Anoncoin now that they see it as a threat to their own wishful anonymous wanna-be coin(s).  I repeat don't feed the trolls you only give their claims credence by responding to them.  They're not early adopters or big Anoncoin bag holders as they claim to be and it's obvious that the FUD they're spreading are not level headed technical questions about the protocol.  They're afraid and are not coming to this thread out of the goodness of their hearts or real interest in the tech.  Like the RSA_UFO_Attack guy he didn't even know what a RSA UFO was when he first came to the thread.  The more he learns about the tech the more his attacks change.  So it's very obvious that they came to this thread with an agenda.  I repeat again do not feed the trolls they are only here to spread FUD and you cannot reason or enlighten them period.  You only help to legitimise their FUD claims by responding to them.  Let the tech speaks for itself.  All the source code is being fully released and you can be sure their will be many in depth peer reviews once ZC is on the main-net and all the source is open.  Wait for the in depth technical reviews on the source before putting your privacy on the line.  I am not a big bag holder of ANC I wish I was but I can't afford to be.  I do hold some though and am mainly here out of interest in the tech.  The Zerocoin protocol is the only true anonymous transaction technique.  The only other protocol that even comes close is the ring-signature technique of Cryptonote coins like Monero.  Every other technique is to the best of my knowledge not truly anonymous and those coins will always be playing whack-a-mole with privacy exploites.  Once they become big enough to be targeted.

[gunzeon]

As i said, i'd talk with a marketing friend about zero, and after i'd done some explaining, she came straight out with "Zero2Trust"

Maybe the image can be slicked up:

Anoncoin+ == Anoncoin with Zero2Trust
( oh, Wow, Anoncoin is reborn with Zero2Trust technology !!! Allelulia !!! )

Well, people selling soap powder or fried chicken do it :-)

Maybe the 3 crapcoin refugees frequenting this thread can help, marketing might be their forte, heck, some altcoin surprisingly found it's way onto Finex i recall

[matthewh3]

Plus I've posted a thread on this new exhanges forum - http://community.coldcryptos.com/threads/please-add-anoncoin.354 - by the guys behind The Multi Coin Tipping App - https://www.whitepuma.net/multitipping - about adding Anoncoin to their exchange.  If anyone wants to follow or add to the thread.

Looks like they may be adding Anoncoin to their new exchange - http://community.coldcryptos.com/threads/please-add-anoncoin.354/

[robinson5]

Rather than people just saying "troll!" I'd like someone (preferably a developer or someone with experience) to actually respond to the accusations that RSA UFO's aren't secure.  I don't know enough about cryptography but are RSA's points valid?  Also, if it took 8 core years to come up with the RSA UFO's couldn't another group do the same thing? If they did the same thing couldn't they factor N to get the prime numbers? That's what I don't understand.

Has the whitepaper been peer reviewed yet?

If you guys, read my last posts and try to understand my allegations, you will see that I'm not here to troll but to help Anoncoin for the long run. I don't care about PumpnDump.
The greatest paradox is that you all want an anonymous currency because you don't trust the current banking system but at the same time you give your complete trust in Gnosis.

The RSA-UFO is a nonsense and I will explain you why in two different kind of views.
1) In simple words, the RSA problem is the possibility of reversing the encryption function. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_problem
To make things more difficult, Gnosis removed the small factors with the RSA-UFO project to increase the probability to have two large prime numbers but all is based on probabilities and actual computational capabilities. It will be just a question of time to someone break these 13 RSA UFOs and generate infinite ANC. Source: https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO
I know Gnosis alleged that he will generate long RSA-UFOs to avoid this problem but the computational capabilities evolve very fast and we can't create a strong system based on probabilities and assumptions.

2) Ok, now I consider that you trust the RSA encryption and you believe it would take decades to break. But what if Gnosis genereate these 13 RSA-UFOs by himself to know the two prime factors P and Q?
There is no way to setup the accumulators without trusting someone (in our case Gnosis). Gnosis can tell us he will use the trustless RSA-UFO system to generate the 13 RSA-UFOs but we can't be sure that he will really use it. If he generate them by himself, he will be able to create infinite ANC from nothing. I don't think it's necessary to explain the consequences of such an event.

Even if you trust in the good faith of Gnosis, there is an high risk to let an inexperienced person do this work. If there is any mistake or if he don't destroy correctly and physically all datas about this generation, someone could use it against ANC in the future and totally discredit or destroy ANC.

In conclusion, the implementation of zerocoin is doomed to failure because of the problems I described.
For a strong future, ANC have much more to improve than implement Zerocoin like I said in my last post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=227287.msg8903880#msg8903880

Now, if the only things sheep care is the PumpnDump to make dollars, then good luck and be fast because when people will realize, the dump will be hard.

EDIT: @ WDL: Yes I'm concerned to the ANC project because I hold still a big quantity of ANC.
EDIT2: If you don't trust me, ask Meeh. I know he agreed with these facts about RSA and Gnosis. Meeh is certainly able to create his own white paper and add a real anonymous value to ANC.

[alacast]

hi all, just to inform that I've setup this wiki page:
https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Anonymity_of_cryptocurrencies

It needs a lot of editing and improving but we can do that and have a proper reference page about the anonymous coins jungle I hope...

For those who don't have an account on the wiki, or cant ask for one, feel free to post corrections or additionnal info here, I'll add that to the wiki later.

Also english is not my mother language so there's bad grammar and spelling mistakes, and I have to give credit to user entertheabyss from which I stole some words to fill the second part of the wiki page. 

[Simcom]

hi all, just to inform that I've setup this wiki page:
https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Anonymity_of_cryptocurrencies

It needs a lot of editing and improving but we can do that and have a proper reference page about the anonymous coins jungle I hope...

For those who don't have an account on the wiki, or cant ask for one, feel free to post corrections or additionnal info here, I'll add that to the wiki later.

Also english is not my mother language so there's bad grammar and spelling mistakes, and I have to give credit to user entertheabyss from which I stole some words to fill the second part of the wiki page.  

This looks like it will be a valuable resource.  A quick comment about the darkcoin line below:

One has (had) to pay 1000 DarkCoin cost to set up a MasterNode (1 darkcoin was nearly 10 USD when Darkcoin was most popular). Developpers' philosophy is to literally sell the abality to run Masternodes at high price, so they're more difficult to compromise...

The coins are not "paid" - maybe a more accurate description would be that they are "staked".  The masternode owner stays in control of the coins at all times and they can even be kept in cold storage.  Each masternode must "prove a reserve" of 1000 coins in order to operate.

[matthewh3]

Rather than people just saying "troll!" I'd like someone (preferably a developer or someone with experience) to actually respond to the accusations that RSA UFO's aren't secure.  I don't know enough about cryptography but are RSA's points valid?  Also, if it took 8 core years to come up with the RSA UFO's couldn't another group do the same thing? If they did the same thing couldn't they factor N to get the prime numbers? That's what I don't understand.

Has the whitepaper been peer reviewed yet?

Oh look another brand new account?  Read the Anoncoin wiki on the matter - https://wiki.anoncoin.net/RSA_UFO#Zerocoin_accumulators - If you don't understand that then that's not my fault and I don't have to try and expalin it all to you nor do you don't have to trust Anoncoin.  The RSA UFO's are a way to initiate the accumulator - https://wiki.anoncoin.net/Cryptographic_accumulator - in a trustless matter.  Anyone could have took part in the RSA UFO generation.

About the peer review why don't you do it or do you not feel qualified.  I'm pretty sure ANC's ZC will get stress tested to the max once it's been released.  There'll be some pretty major hacker bragging rights to anyone who can break it.  Like the guy behind this site - http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com - who aims to have an app to break Blockchain.info shared-coin mixer soon.  And then probably using the same or very similar technique to break the Darkcoin mixer.  That linked site author said he aims to have a review up soon on all anonymous transaction techniques.  Just like the old saying 'If it can be made it can be copied' also 'If it can be broke then someone will break it'.

[entertheabyss]

Good News, I finished the front-end for a darknet ANC/BTC exchange. I expect to have something online before the ZC mainnet