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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 612110 times)
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best_btc
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July 17, 2013, 08:51:41 PM
 #461

well, you can evaluate the customer service Wink i agree, this is pityful.

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I wrote already to BTC-e, Mtgox support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard:
 http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
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https://support.mtgox.com/home
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July 18, 2013, 06:00:21 AM
 #462

Today I am in a bad mood. Sorry I will be a little bit rude and direct to the point, but....
In this forum many are worried about the low price of DVC. My opinion?
A coin like DVC, claiming to be for developers, it is not able to have good developers at its disposal.
Sorry for the comparison, but I just typed the word worldcoin: the first result is a complete, nice website.
I tried to type devcoin: the first website coming out is 1 page website, very elementary website. People need more to be convinced to put their money on it.
Secondly, it could be nice to have constant selling of DVC on websites like ebay: i knew of dvc on it, not on devtome.com.

Selling DVC on eBay is a fast way to get your eBay and Paypal accounts banned and frozen.

I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, Sad.

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July 18, 2013, 06:03:37 AM
 #463

Completely false. As of a couple weeks ago some of us have been given the job of ensuring that articles are up to quality standards. Multiple people have been removed from the payment list as a result or been declined, and many more have been contacted and have had to fix their articles or remove problematic ones.

Please do not spread false information around.

I was watching the relevant files for round 25 very closely, and I noticed the number of writer shares go up and down, so I know that some content that was published got deleted or whatever other quality control measures were practiced.  And in the end, round 25 turned out to promise way more earnings for those of us who did NOT run afoul of the quality control, like 3 to 4 times more than round 24.  I am convinced the difference is that there was much less quality control in round 24 than round 25.  Good job admins!

On another note, I saw some posts about the relative value of DVC compared to BTC.  For what it's worth, here are two things that would seriously increase the value of DVC in my eyes, and I'm probably not the only one who feels this way.

1.  A web based online wallet for DVC that has everything Coinbase has including the ability to buy/sell into dollars by direct linking to your regular fiat bank account.  What Coinbase does for BTC is give it liquidity.  I can buy or sell my BTC without having to go through an exchange.  Obviously not good for making lots of trades, but for what a normal person (who isn't a currency trader) needs it's more than adequate.  That kind of liquidity adds value to a currency and would do wonders for DVC if it had a Coinbase.  Maybe those here writing letters to people should ask the good people at CoinBase to consider developing a wallet for DVC.  They are a pretty responsive lot.

2.  More solid investments for DVC.  Right now the only place I know of where I can invest my DVC is on Cryptostocks and there are a few DVC denominated securities.  I've looked into all of them.  The ASCMDVCPT one is the best place for "growing" the number of Devcoins, as the dividend payouts are generous and the company behind the stock is rock solid (last I checked anyway).  However, the stock itself is overvalued--sells for 2 to 3 times as much as it should compared to the equivalent on BTCT.co, so it's limited in terms of how much you can buy into it, and at some point it's bound to correct.  Of the other securities, there's a DVC bond which will yield about a 3.65% return per year--at least it has some interest but 3.65% is like standing still compared to other stocks which have estimated returns of 20 to 50%.  The DVB stock is interesting but I do not understand how the fundamentals work (i.e., what's being bought and sold, how profits are made, etc.) and no one seems to want to explain them to me, at least not in a language I (a non-technical, non-miner, non-programmer) can understand.  There's another stock that seems to be based on some sort of multilevel scheme involving pyramining and it finally paid its first dividend and again I just don't understand it well enough to feel confident investing in it.  That's it.  We need more.  I'd like to see some solid companies offer shares that are denominated in DVC.  When they come on the scene I will happily buy.

Someone else mentioned this but I'll reiterate--a marketplace for DVC would be helpful.  If I can buy some of what I need and pay for it with DVC, even gift cards to places I like to shop, then that would definitely make my DVC more valuable.  

DNotes 2.0 - Bridging the Gap Between the Centralized and Decentralized World - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1924858.0
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July 18, 2013, 06:07:55 AM
 #464

The client needs the "latest bitcoin with mining as a secondary chain patches applied" thing that all merged mined coins need, since all of them need it it doesn't make a lot of sense for any of them to go ahead without doing that step first.

I did a bunch of the job already but then bitcoin updated again so I am not sure whether bitcoins latest update amounts to just another patch/pull to apply or would be better approached by starting over with latest bitcoin again applying the merged mine patches again.

Maybe once enough merged mined coins all decide they want to update they can each come up with a bounty to add to help encourage someone to make it happen. I unfortunately am so massively backlogged with other things I need to do that I only was able to apply the first few of the patches, basically the easiest ones to apply.

-MarkM-


EDIT: a DeVCoin gateway on Ripple would make for lots of liquidity but so far the only released code for such a gateway is said to not be production-quality yet plus of course one cannot yet run a rippled server since its code is also unavailable still. As to investments, the iphone and android apps for Open Transactions are not in the app-shops yet so most people have not gotten access to the various Open Transactions servers yet.

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July 18, 2013, 06:09:58 AM
 #465

Sweet...so I just pick a topic and write about it...sort of the Wiki of Cryptos in that regard!

Sweet perhaps, but the system totally lacks any quality control.  You can put pretty much anything on devtome as "writing" and get shares for it.   It's a shame the project is failing in that regard.    



Completely false. As of a couple weeks ago some of us have been given the job of ensuring that articles are up to quality standards. Multiple people have been removed from the payment list as a result or been declined, and many more have been contacted and have had to fix their articles or remove problematic ones.

Please do not spread false information around.

Please do not spread false advertising around.   Are you complicit in this "$10 Devcoin" thing that has been on the devtome wiki for ages now, added by your former "promoter" FinShaggy?   I brought this false advertising to the attention of everybody on this forum, received assurances it would be removed, and guess what?  2 months later the false advertising is still there.  What other false items are on the wiki?   Where is the quality control?  I see NONE.

Get with it folks


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July 18, 2013, 06:21:13 AM
 #466

I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, Sad.

What it boils down to is that Devcoin and all things related to it (and I would say cryptocoins in general) need to be communicated to the non-geek audience in a language we can understand without being patronizing.  People who mess around with hardware and know how to write code tend to not necessarily be all that great on making a website that looks nice.  They also tend to not be very good writers in terms of being able to communicate the concepts in writing to a larger audience.

I'm working on a more developed article about this, but I think the real value of the stories and questions thread is not in generating made to order fiction, but in connecting the geniuses of the cryptoworld (those who start businesses but intend to raise funding through IPOs, those working on various bounty projects, etc.) with people like me who could write about them and communicate the features/benefits to a wider audience.  I can become knowledgeable enough to write about just about any subject if the one passionate about that subject is willing to take the time to tell me about the project and answer my questions (the interview process that freelance writers go through when they are writing a story) and have the attitude that no question is a stupid question.  Those are the people who need to be putting up bounties--the ones who have great ideas and are working on amazing things but who for whatever reason are unable or unwilling to communicate in writing what they are doing to the world at large.  I know writing doesn't come easy to everyone.  Take Devda.ch, for example.  And this isn't meant to be a slam, but just something to help--the site is filled with pictures of stuff I have no idea what it is (other than it's computer related) with very little explanation, and absolutely NOTHING in the investor section.  That site needs content that average people can read and understand.  I (and other writers) can write that content as long as I'm given access to the people who are working on the projects.  And then so many more people can know what's going on and understand why it's so great and even possibly invest money in it.

DNotes 2.0 - Bridging the Gap Between the Centralized and Decentralized World - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1924858.0
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July 18, 2013, 06:53:09 AM
 #467

Today I am in a bad mood. Sorry I will be a little bit rude and direct to the point, but....
In this forum many are worried about the low price of DVC. My opinion?
A coin like DVC, claiming to be for developers, it is not able to have good developers at its disposal.
Sorry for the comparison, but I just typed the word worldcoin: the first result is a complete, nice website.
I tried to type devcoin: the first website coming out is 1 page website, very elementary website. People need more to be convinced to put their money on it.
Secondly, it could be nice to have constant selling of DVC on websites like ebay: i knew of dvc on it, not on devtome.com.

Selling DVC on eBay is a fast way to get your eBay and Paypal accounts banned and frozen.

I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, Sad.

I think the website is another case of the downside of bounties.  A few people expressed interest in doing or helping with one, but what got put up was the first thing someone with access to the domain could rush up.

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July 18, 2013, 06:54:45 AM
 #468

I agree that we need a nice website though... even the pump-n-dump coins have good sites. And the client needs a workover as well, Sad.

What it boils down to is that Devcoin and all things related to it (and I would say cryptocoins in general) need to be communicated to the non-geek audience in a language we can understand without being patronizing.  People who mess around with hardware and know how to write code tend to not necessarily be all that great on making a website that looks nice.  They also tend to not be very good writers in terms of being able to communicate the concepts in writing to a larger audience.

I'm working on a more developed article about this, but I think the real value of the stories and questions thread is not in generating made to order fiction, but in connecting the geniuses of the cryptoworld (those who start businesses but intend to raise funding through IPOs, those working on various bounty projects, etc.) with people like me who could write about them and communicate the features/benefits to a wider audience.  I can become knowledgeable enough to write about just about any subject if the one passionate about that subject is willing to take the time to tell me about the project and answer my questions (the interview process that freelance writers go through when they are writing a story) and have the attitude that no question is a stupid question.  Those are the people who need to be putting up bounties--the ones who have great ideas and are working on amazing things but who for whatever reason are unable or unwilling to communicate in writing what they are doing to the world at large.  I know writing doesn't come easy to everyone.  Take Devda.ch, for example.  And this isn't meant to be a slam, but just something to help--the site is filled with pictures of stuff I have no idea what it is (other than it's computer related) with very little explanation, and absolutely NOTHING in the investor section.  That site needs content that average people can read and understand.  I (and other writers) can write that content as long as I'm given access to the people who are working on the projects.  And then so many more people can know what's going on and understand why it's so great and even possibly invest money in it.

This is actually a very good point... on the note of writing, I can help out as well. I'm not as technologically-minded in terms of Bitcoin/Cryptos in general, but if I can understand what's going on I can break it down into simpler methods for others to understand as well.

@twobits -- this is an issue I have as well... bounties are based on the "first," rather than the best. I think bounties should work like anything else; you are paying for quality. Anyone can toss up a crappy forum that meets the requirements needed for the forum bounty. It takes more skill to get one together that is set up properly, works like everyone wants and is seen as being usable by everyone.

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July 18, 2013, 07:28:00 AM
 #469


1.  A web based online wallet for DVC that has everything Coinbase has including the ability to buy/sell into dollars by direct linking to your regular fiat bank account.  What Coinbase does for BTC is give it liquidity.  I can buy or sell my BTC without having to go through an exchange.  Obviously not good for making lots of trades, but for what a normal person (who isn't a currency trader) needs it's more than adequate.  That kind of liquidity adds value to a currency and would do wonders for DVC if it had a Coinbase.  Maybe those here writing letters to people should ask the good people at CoinBase to consider developing a wallet for DVC.  They are a pretty responsive lot.

I have very mixed feelings about web wallets in general.   They remove a lot of the purpose of the distributed blockchain.  It also benefits the network to have people running the blockchain verifying software.  However,  if people want to have and use web wallets,  then someone should make them available.  I do know that I prefer to see DVC kept as far away from direct fiat exchange as possible. I would prefer to see more coin2coin only exchanges like mcxnow.

Quote
is rock solid (last I checked anyway).  However, the stock itself is overvalued--sells for 2 to 3 times as much as it should compared to the equivalent on BTCT.co, so it's limited in terms of how much you can buy into it, and at some point it's

This is not true.  Aside from which , how do you pick which side of an arbitrage is the undervalued or overvalued side, the price has been more in line of a 33% variance for the actual  average price. Unfortunately the graph only shows peaks, which a one share sale can effect too much.  A few shares have gone at high prices, and the sell side of the order book of course shows that type of price.  However no one is filling them at those prices in general and buy orders get filled for much less then that. 


Quote
Someone else mentioned this but I'll reiterate--a marketplace for DVC would be helpful.  If I can buy some of what I need and pay for it with DVC, even gift cards to places I like to shop, then that would definitely make my DVC more valuable.  

This would be good.... a bitmit like site for devcoins.

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July 18, 2013, 07:47:35 AM
 #470

Those are the people who need to be putting up bounties--the ones who have great ideas and are working on amazing things but who for whatever reason are unable or unwilling to communicate in writing what they are doing to the world at large.

This is actually a very good point... on the note of writing, I can help out as well. I'm not as technologically-minded in terms of Bitcoin/Cryptos in general, but if I can understand what's going on I can break it down into simpler methods for others to understand as well.

Actually this may show part of the culture shift going on with the project and especially the devtome part of it.   You think people doing work on other things should put up bounties.  However most of the stuff being done is open source,  with the people doing it giving away their time and expertise.  Now someone feels that was not enough, they should have to pay others to help them.  That is not how open source is supposed to work.

 I saw luckybit always saying how you can not blame the writers in earlier discussions.  I also saw someone go so far as to post their reply to an active discussion as a devtome article so they could get paid while participating in the discussion!!  This was when I had to take a break from things, as seeing things like that was just too frustrating.  In an OS project all members are supposed to help move towards the goals.    The concept of blaming or not blaming or not being able to blame a party would not even enter the discussion.   It is not meant to be, you do the task defined and only that and don't think about anything else.    I really think the culture is shifting and am not sure what it will become.



Quote
@twobits -- this is an issue I have as well... bounties are based on the "first," rather than the best. I think bounties should work like anything else; you are paying for quality. Anyone can toss up a crappy forum that meets the requirements needed for the forum bounty. It takes more skill to get one together that is set up properly, works like everyone wants and is seen as being usable by everyone.

There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.

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July 18, 2013, 09:07:34 AM
 #471

I got this answer from mtgox, to add DVC:
"Hello,

Thanks for contacting us.We would sure forward this to the management.

Best regards,

Mt.Gox Team"

so the managment does hear the repeated requests....

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BTC:  1ELy69CQ8u77qYvjgfZBFxcyNNyrtcQFFR
I wrote already to BTC-e, Mtgox support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard:
 http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home
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July 18, 2013, 09:14:41 AM
 #472

There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.

Maybe a job for google's "mail for your own domain" service?

-MarkM-

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July 18, 2013, 10:04:57 AM
 #473

There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.

Maybe a job for google's "mail for your own domain" service?

-MarkM-


I have doubts they would let me add a hook at the smtp level like I would want to.

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July 18, 2013, 12:51:07 PM
 #474

Actually this may show part of the culture shift going on with the project and especially the devtome part of it.   You think people doing work on other things should put up bounties.  However most of the stuff being done is open source,  with the people doing it giving away their time and expertise.  Now someone feels that was not enough, they should have to pay others to help them.  That is not how open source is supposed to work.

 I saw luckybit always saying how you can not blame the writers in earlier discussions.  I also saw someone go so far as to post their reply to an active discussion as a devtome article so they could get paid while participating in the discussion!!  This was when I had to take a break from things, as seeing things like that was just too frustrating.  In an OS project all members are supposed to help move towards the goals.    The concept of blaming or not blaming or not being able to blame a party would not even enter the discussion.   It is not meant to be, you do the task defined and only that and don't think about anything else.    I really think the culture is shifting and am not sure what it will become.

Quote
@twobits -- this is an issue I have as well... bounties are based on the "first," rather than the best. I think bounties should work like anything else; you are paying for quality. Anyone can toss up a crappy forum that meets the requirements needed for the forum bounty. It takes more skill to get one together that is set up properly, works like everyone wants and is seen as being usable by everyone.

There is another interesting thing with the forum bounty.  While it can be done, running a mail server can be a real pain.  You have people consonantly probing it that want to use it as a relay.  You have people that want to know why mail from misconfigured  servers does not get to them, or to the person behind the bad server.  You have ongoing server and support costs.  I would have done the bounty if the issue of where and how to host it was also solved or supported in some way.
I agree. I said a while back that the devtome payment system may prove counter productive as it stands - because without capping per user share as % of total growing popularity would create a market skewed towards transient sellers, rather than buyers or holders or those interested in funding continuation of the idea and others from their own payment. Obviously all the basics of establishing decent and appealing venues for Devcoin itself need to be completed (maybe funded by those who'd like to see them happen...?) but I think it’s worth going back to square one and asking what the basics of the concept are, because like you I don't really get the 'culture shift'.

If a bounty or share is paid for a project or effort, but the dvc bid interest is insufficient to reward them at such a value, that implies the financed project (or collective efforts) isn’t monetised or valued enough to warrant the payment at that level. Simple as that. So any constructive assessment of long-term value needs to start from the question of what are people willing to pay for directly, or what can be monetised to create a payment structure indirectly. That then raises the open-source issue, so perhaps the bigger question is an honest appraisal of which open-source efforts are nice ideas vs which ones are nice ideas that people will actually pay to see or use or advance, and how to reconcile the two.

For example, markm's point about pathes for merged mined coin clients - that could be a straightforward collaboration with other merged mined coin owners or agreement to use devcoin as a funding or facilitation mechanism to get it done. But to date it hasn't happened. Is that because few knew about the requirement, because there's no real interest, because it's difficult and time consuming and therefore expensive, because all coins see collaboration as self-undermining etc etc? I think answering that question mattters.

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July 18, 2013, 02:05:36 PM
 #475

Just to clarify what I meant earlier about individuals putting up bounties in addition to regular Devtome earnings for specific pieces of writing... I'm referring to the stories and questions thread Unthinkingbit set up as a result of an idea I and someone else had to combine the part where you can write whatever you want and also be more motivated to write content someone else wants/needs.  I was making the point that people behind the development of projects would greatly benefit from having those projects communicated to a wider audience in writing--very similar to how a business might pay a writer to write up a product brochure.  I wasn't referring to anything else.

I'm new so can't comment much on the culture shift... but IMO any shift that moves towards bringing more people on board (interested in Devcoins), especially more mainstream types, is likely to be positive.

As for publishing an article on the Devtome inspired by a forum discussion, I did that.  I thought of that because I read a post in which someone said it was great that the Devtome would allow for one to directly benefit from sharing an idea even if they didn't actually develop the idea.  I had ideas.  I shared them.  I got paid.  People on this forum shared my article and there was some discussion about it.  I don't see the problem.  However, if that ever becomes against the rules I will respect that.  The admins look over my writing same as everyone else's.  They can decide it shouldn't be there and I will accept it as long as the reasons given are clearly explained and consistent for all writers.  Actually even if my writing was being unfairly picked on, I'd probably accept that too.  The Devtome pays, which means the Devtome is the client (the customer) and the general truth in business is the customer is always right.

I have a busy day and won't be able to keep up with this thread today.  But just wanted to respond to a few things that were written after I posted last night and make sure I'd clearly communicated what I meant to say.

DNotes 2.0 - Bridging the Gap Between the Centralized and Decentralized World - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1924858.0
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July 19, 2013, 08:31:50 AM
 #476

I wrote already to BTC-e support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard: http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home

XRP:  rNnou9B7snYUPPQdH9KP4D9JQ7EJXTKN4G
BTC:  1ELy69CQ8u77qYvjgfZBFxcyNNyrtcQFFR
I wrote already to BTC-e, Mtgox support to add DVC (again). you all should write them too, let our voices be heard:
 http://hdbtce.kayako.com/
and also Mtgox:
https://twitter.com/MtGox
https://support.mtgox.com/home
5Dzz
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July 19, 2013, 09:16:26 AM
 #477

Hi, I signed up on Devtome a few weeks ago and wrote a article.
It's there posted and just waiting for the earnings script to verify
everything's accounted for so I can write more.

User: ecafe

When I checked the earnings spreadsheet I did not see my username
or any sign I was being counted in the system yet.  If someone can
please verify or add me so I can be sure my writing is being
acknowledged I would really appreciate it.

Thanks very much   Smiley
5Dzz
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July 19, 2013, 10:48:57 AM
 #478

Hi notabot,  thanks very much for the reply.
I'm happy to read your post.  Just learning the Devtome
system and ready to focus on writing more now  Grin

Very much appreciate your reply and great information,
and looking forward to being part of the Devtome
and Devcoin community.

 Smiley
worldinacoin
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July 19, 2013, 01:55:52 PM
 #479

I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.
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July 19, 2013, 02:57:04 PM
 #480

I am thinking why not we get an open source mmorpg and integrate real DVC payments, this will be interesting as the players will be earning real life money something like Second Life.

"Something like Second Life" is in work. I suggest to become familiar with http://opensimulator.org.

Any progress on the Howto for cloning Namecoin?

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