[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[FinShaggy]

Copying writings from an existing blog is not ‘working’. Copying writings from an existing book is not ‘working’.

So basically you are picking me out, and completely making assumptions and getting mad.

1st, I don't copy from blogs. Sure, I copied a few of my things from my blog, but I extended all of it, or compiled it to make a more informative piece for Devtome.

2nd, I was asked to post my books here. That is the SOLE reason they came to me in the first place.

3rd, If you are implying that I bought 30+ books to copy the writing out of them, you are completely wrong. I have been taking hundreds of pages, and compiling them into about 5,000 words each. My words.

Uhh I didn't write that... but whoever said that was right, the intent was to say that work should be rewarded and not rework.

So your telling me that if I read a textbook about classical civilization, and I write, IN MY OWN WORDS, about what I am reading. My work is not worth what someone's work is worth that writes about a computer game?

And I was ASKED to come post my books here. I was ASKED to post my rework. That is WHY I WAS INVITED TO DEVTOME. Jasinlee saw me posting my books in the Off-Topic section, and said "You know you can earn Devcoins for this on Devtome". And I came on over.

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[sidhujag]

Copying writings from an existing blog is not ‘working’. Copying writings from an existing book is not ‘working’.

So basically you are picking me out, and completely making assumptions and getting mad.

1st, I don't copy from blogs. Sure, I copied a few of my things from my blog, but I extended all of it, or compiled it to make a more informative piece for Devtome.

2nd, I was asked to post my books here. That is the SOLE reason they came to me in the first place.

3rd, If you are implying that I bought 30+ books to copy the writing out of them, you are completely wrong. I have been taking hundreds of pages, and compiling them into about 5,000 words each. My words.

Uhh I didn't write that... but whoever said that was right, the intent was to say that work should be rewarded and not rework.

So your telling me that if I read a textbook about classical civilization, and I write, IN MY OWN WORDS, about what I am reading. My work is not worth what someone's work is worth that writes about a computer game?

And I was ASKED to come post my books here. I was ASKED to post my rework. That is WHY I WAS INVITED TO DEVTOME. Jasinlee saw me posting my books in the Off-Topic section, and said "You know you can earn Devcoins for this on Devtome". And I came on over.

FIRST of all a review should NEVER be worth as much as the original material. Second of all it all depends on what people want to read (the ratings or views of articles) maybe sections that are "hot" get paid more than others becase they are drawing interest. Remixing words and rephrasing things in your own words is still not as creative and work intensive as the original idea or work. It's not like its worth nothing, but just not as much as I'd pay to read the original idea.

[FinShaggy]

And I am literally reading a textbook about Classical Civilization while I chat here. And I'm not in any kind of school or class. This is a personal choice, funded by my other postings (books I wrote, etc).

[markm]

Just curious, how do those ads pay out, do they payout in cash or btc? It would be ideal if those ads were paid out via purchasing dvc on the open market(since theres always sellers thers no probs getting a good rate on purchasing dvc in the open market as a market order). If these ads can support devtome this would be the most ideal situation as you wouldn't have to worry about any dumping at all! It would be 0 sum from the get go. Actually if sufficient revenue was coming out of the ads you can actually say that you can earn as much as the revenue is being generated. So by writing you have access to x amount of dollars converted to dvc in the pool from the generated revenue of ad clicks and views/page ranks etc. A self sustaining wiki which supports writers would be fantastic!

Devtome, and money-earning projects in general, is/are supposed to support not only themselves but the entire devcoin project/ecosystem.

Yes, the ad revenue is supposed to be used to buy devcoins on exchanges, thus hopefully giving devcoins some actual exchange-rate value.

In order for there to be devcoins for sale on those exchanges for the money-making sites such as devtome to buy, there need to be people or sites or something that actually earns devcoins directly somehow, such as miners and people who are such avid devoted producers of free open source stuff that they got nominated and approved for inclusion in the receivers files, that is to receive a share of devcoins.

The entire 200,000 devcoins minted each round is really only worth as much, all added up, as the amount of money the moneymaking projects manage to bring in each round, on average over time, unless some speculators speculatively buy some coins or some potential customer of a shop or something chooses to buy some coins so as to pay in devcoins for something at a shop (and the shopkeeper likely will only value the coins the customer pays them at pretty much the amount they can dump them on an exchange for, thus ultimately at whatever price the moneymaking projects/sites can afford to buy them for).

So far devtome doesn't seem to have brought in much money.

I would not be surprised if adding code for divvying up more than just the bitcoins to a merged mining p2pool turned out to bring in massively more money than devtome, but thanks to it being massively more lucrative to paste stuff to devtome than to write code for divvying up rewards among p2pool miners such a pool still does not yet exist.

(It could sell all the namecoins, groupcoins, i0coins, ixcoins, coiledcoins and geistgeld for devcoins and use those to pay its bandwidth/hosting/admin costs and reward miners for mining bitcoins at that zero fee p2pool rather than at some other bitcoin mining pool...)

-MarkM-

[FinShaggy]

FIRST of all a review should NEVER be worth as much as the original material. Second of all it all depends on what people want to read (the ratings or views of articles) maybe sections that are "hot" get paid more than others becase they are drawing interest. Remixing words and rephrasing things in your own words is still not as creative and work intensive as the original idea or work. It's not like its worth nothing, but just not as much as I'd pay to read the original idea.

I am not "writing reviews" I am writing history in a form that is more understandable to regular people than these textbooks. You are completely misunderstanding the work.

History is history, sorry if it's not completely original. I am sharing it all in my own words though, no one else's.

[wiser]

Why would any coder join the project when they can make as much coin pasting one thousand words they already wrote about anything to devtome as they would get if they regularly as a lifestyle freely spent ten hours OR MORE without pay working on some code project directly relevant to devcoin's mission for so long and so well that someone picked them out to nominate to receive a share of devcoins?

They'd make a lot more coin just pasting a few kilowords of man pages or issues/bugs/fixes/changes logs of an existing project entirely useless to devcoin to devtome than they would being a devoted lifestyle free open source contributor of code to devcoin-critical missions...

An investor would probably advise them in fact that it is stupid to code because of the opportunity cost of wasting time coding that could instead earn more coin "collating" free open source content such as wikipedia pages and pasting them to devtome. They'd advise don't even consider coding until you have pasted 240k of collated material or 80k of crap you have lying around from when you took a mandatory course in English in college or whatever.

-MarkM-

MarkM, this opportunity is open to you too.  You write very well, though I can tell you are passionate about coding.  So why not write up a few articles each month--you could even use material from your posts here.  Then you would be benefiting from the system as it's set up and you could use your writing income to help you do what you really love which is coding.  A lot of people do that--work at something they maybe don't like as much but are good at so they can invest in their passion.  There's nothing stopping you from taking the Devtome writer opportunity and running with it.

[FinShaggy]

Why would any coder join the project when they can make as much coin pasting one thousand words they already wrote about anything to devtome as they would get if they regularly as a lifestyle freely spent ten hours OR MORE without pay working on some code project directly relevant to devcoin's mission for so long and so well that someone picked them out to nominate to receive a share of devcoins?

They'd make a lot more coin just pasting a few kilowords of man pages or issues/bugs/fixes/changes logs of an existing project entirely useless to devcoin to devtome than they would being a devoted lifestyle free open source contributor of code to devcoin-critical missions...

An investor would probably advise them in fact that it is stupid to code because of the opportunity cost of wasting time coding that could instead earn more coin "collating" free open source content such as wikipedia pages and pasting them to devtome. They'd advise don't even consider coding until you have pasted 240k of collated material or 80k of crap you have lying around from when you took a mandatory course in English in college or whatever.

-MarkM-

MarkM, this opportunity is open to you too.  You write very well, though I can tell you are passionate about coding.  So why not write up a few articles each month--you could even use material from your posts here.  Then you would be benefiting from the system as it's set up and you could use your writing income to help you do what you really love which is coding.  A lot of people do that--work at something they maybe don't like as much but are good at so they can invest in their passion.  There's nothing stopping you from taking the Devtome writer opportunity and running with it.

True shit. His posts could be copied and made into informative devcoin articles, when more than one came together it would cover a subject pretty fully.

[sidhujag]

FIRST of all a review should NEVER be worth as much as the original material. Second of all it all depends on what people want to read (the ratings or views of articles) maybe sections that are "hot" get paid more than others becase they are drawing interest. Remixing words and rephrasing things in your own words is still not as creative and work intensive as the original idea or work. It's not like its worth nothing, but just not as much as I'd pay to read the original idea.

I am not "writing reviews" I am writing history in a form that is more understandable to regular people than these textbooks. You are completely misunderstanding the work.

History is history, sorry if it's not completely original. I am sharing it all in my own words though, no one else's.

So let me rephrase it this way... in the eyes of the general population what is worth more? Mastering Windows Server 2008 R2 by Mark Minasi or Windows Server 2008 for dummies? Care to wager? the reworded simplified version may be more handy to most people but it is "worth" less because of the work involved in its creation was less than the original. It's 50% cheaper.

[FinShaggy]

FIRST of all a review should NEVER be worth as much as the original material. Second of all it all depends on what people want to read (the ratings or views of articles) maybe sections that are "hot" get paid more than others becase they are drawing interest. Remixing words and rephrasing things in your own words is still not as creative and work intensive as the original idea or work. It's not like its worth nothing, but just not as much as I'd pay to read the original idea.

I am not "writing reviews" I am writing history in a form that is more understandable to regular people than these textbooks. You are completely misunderstanding the work.

History is history, sorry if it's not completely original. I am sharing it all in my own words though, no one else's.

So let me rephrase it this way... in the eyes of the general population what is worth more? Mastering Windows Server 2008 R2 by Mark Minasi or Windows Server 2008 for dummies? Care to wager? the reworded simplified version may be more handy to most people but it is "worth" less because of the work involved in its creation was less than the original. It's 50% cheaper.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people out there learning about Windows 2008. I honestly don't think you can make more. On other websites I have been sharing excerpts of my history book, and people are asking for more and suggesting that I read about their favorite person, because they want to hear about them in my words.

So I don't know what "Mastering Windows Server 2008 R2 by MM is", but are many people literally asking you personally to show them more?

[FinShaggy]

My history article is already #53 on all of devtome in views, and it's only a few weeks old.

[markm]

MarkM, this opportunity is open to you too.  You write very well, though I can tell you are passionate about coding.  So why not write up a few articles each month--you could even use material from your posts here.  Then you would be benefiting from the system as it's set up and you could use your writing income to help you do what you really love which is coding.  A lot of people do that--work at something they maybe don't like as much but are good at so they can invest in their passion.  There's nothing stopping you from taking the Devtome writer opportunity and running with it.

Often when I write long posts such as I have in this thread I think hmm maybe I should make it a devtome page and just link to the page from the thread.

But every one of my posts has a link to devtome in my signature, and these posts usually/often mention devcoin and/or devtome, thus are relevant content with links to devtome, so should be helping to increase devtome's page-rank.

Also in case you had not noticed I relatively often include links to devtome pages directly in the text of posts, though you have now in effect reminded me that I have not yet gotten around to turning the word Martians or the phrase my page/article about Martians in a recent post into an actual link to that page, which I should now go back and do, again to increase the page rank of a devtome page by having real content on a real forum, relevant to the specific page linked to, contain a link to a devtome page...

I also tend to go back and fix typo's and spelling mistakes and such in my forum-posts, so that the value of the link to devtome in my signature doesn't potentially get downgraded by any search engines that might consider the quality of the writing of an article or post in deciding how much weight to give it toward the rank of things it links to.

So I do my part by posting here, its just that mechanisms to make the effect my posts have here (if any) have on the pagerank of devtome pages or devtome itself in its entirety directly reward me are not currently in place.

Plus if my written reasoning here can succeed in getting 80 shares per author cut down to one share per author then my one share for being a whatever should be maybe not worth eighty times as much but sure as heck a hell of a lot more than it is while people are getting 80 shares a round for being an author...

-MarkM-

[wiser]

It's truly pointless to get into arguments about whose writing is worth more because it all really depends on who's buying.  I do not understand technical computer books so Windows for Dummies would definitely be more valuable to me, just to use an example.  

In the case of our contributions to the Devtome, the Devtome is buying.  In this case, their worth is what the Devtome is paying for them.  End of story.

[FinShaggy]

MarkM, this opportunity is open to you too.  You write very well, though I can tell you are passionate about coding.  So why not write up a few articles each month--you could even use material from your posts here.  Then you would be benefiting from the system as it's set up and you could use your writing income to help you do what you really love which is coding.  A lot of people do that--work at something they maybe don't like as much but are good at so they can invest in their passion.  There's nothing stopping you from taking the Devtome writer opportunity and running with it.

Often when I write long posts such as I have in this thread I think hmm maybe I should make it a devtome page and just link to the page from the thread.

-MarkM-

Do it.

[sidhujag]

Just curious, how do those ads pay out, do they payout in cash or btc? It would be ideal if those ads were paid out via purchasing dvc on the open market(since theres always sellers thers no probs getting a good rate on purchasing dvc in the open market as a market order). If these ads can support devtome this would be the most ideal situation as you wouldn't have to worry about any dumping at all! It would be 0 sum from the get go. Actually if sufficient revenue was coming out of the ads you can actually say that you can earn as much as the revenue is being generated. So by writing you have access to x amount of dollars converted to dvc in the pool from the generated revenue of ad clicks and views/page ranks etc. A self sustaining wiki which supports writers would be fantastic!

Devtome, and money-earning projects in general, is/are supposed to support not only themselves but the entire devcoin project/ecosystem.

Yes, the ad revenue is supposed to be used to buy devcoins on exchanges, thus hopefully giving devcoins some actual exchange-rate value.

In order for there to be devcoins for sale on those exchanges for the money-making sites such as devtome to buy, there need to be people or sites or something that actually earns devcoins directly somehow, such as miners and people who are such avid devoted producers of free open source stuff that they got nominated and approved for inclusion in the receivers files, that is to receive a share of devcoins.

The entire 200,000 devcoins minted each round is really only worth as much, all added up, as the amount of money the moneymaking projects manage to bring in each round, on average over time, unless some speculators speculatively buy some coins or some potential customer of a shop or something chooses to buy some coins so as to pay in devcoins for something at a shop (and the shopkeeper likely will only value the coins the customer pays them at pretty much the amount they can dump them on an exchange for, thus ultimately at whatever price the moneymaking projects/sites can afford to buy them for).

So far devtome doesn't seem to have brought in much money.

I would not be surprised if adding code for divvying up more than just the bitcoins to a merged mining p2pool turned out to bring in massively more money than devtome, but thanks to it being massively more lucrative to paste stuff to devtome than to write code for divvying up rewards among p2pool miners such a pool still does not yet exist.

(It could sell all the namecoins, groupcoins, i0coins, ixcoins, coiledcoins and geistgeld for devcoins and use those to pay its bandwidth/hosting/admin costs and reward miners for mining bitcoins at that zero fee p2pool rather than at some other bitcoin mining pool...)

-MarkM-

Why can't the devcoins be bought automatically from vircurex as you know theres always a seller at a good price for a market order? I think there are more than enough people willing to sell , but not enough willing buyers. I think the ad revenue buying devcoins directly is a great first step and there should be ways/ people to help to increase traffic. I know that writing is lucrative right now and it is driving traffic and thus revenue but I think it would be helpful to drive in revenue now that would actually "read" the material since it is free.

FinShaggy is providing some good content that people may want to read, but we don't know if people are even coming in to read. Do we know how many people are coming in to read content vs writers writing? Is there a way to campaign people to come in to read instead of leaving them with wanting to write their own version of what they just read or posting their own stuff... hey I come on here to read all sorts of cool stuff check it out!

Stuff like KhanAcademy is cool because alot of ppl find it useful even schools are starting to use it.

[sidhujag]

FIRST of all a review should NEVER be worth as much as the original material. Second of all it all depends on what people want to read (the ratings or views of articles) maybe sections that are "hot" get paid more than others becase they are drawing interest. Remixing words and rephrasing things in your own words is still not as creative and work intensive as the original idea or work. It's not like its worth nothing, but just not as much as I'd pay to read the original idea.

I am not "writing reviews" I am writing history in a form that is more understandable to regular people than these textbooks. You are completely misunderstanding the work.

History is history, sorry if it's not completely original. I am sharing it all in my own words though, no one else's.

So let me rephrase it this way... in the eyes of the general population what is worth more? Mastering Windows Server 2008 R2 by Mark Minasi or Windows Server 2008 for dummies? Care to wager? the reworded simplified version may be more handy to most people but it is "worth" less because of the work involved in its creation was less than the original. It's 50% cheaper.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people out there learning about Windows 2008. I honestly don't think you can make more. On other websites I have been sharing excerpts of my history book, and people are asking for more and suggesting that I read about their favorite person, because they want to hear about them in my words.

So I don't know what "Mastering Windows Server 2008 R2 by MM is", but are many people literally asking you personally to show them more?

What I'm saying is the actual book is worth more just as a sheer reference for when you need to look stuff up so it is worth more. Also more work was put in to create it thus it costs more. That's all I'm saying.

Educational material is huge because there are alot of people now coming online to learn about stuff that they couldn't pick up in highschool. I would find it interesting and even probably start to follow it myself if something like KhanAcadamy was writen up and made videos for. I know its copyrighted but something similar, an educational hub inside of devtome. Its very powerful stuff, but that website offers alot more than just reading material it offers some value add by giving stats of how well you are consuming material.

[wiser]

MarkM, this opportunity is open to you too.  You write very well, though I can tell you are passionate about coding.  So why not write up a few articles each month--you could even use material from your posts here.  Then you would be benefiting from the system as it's set up and you could use your writing income to help you do what you really love which is coding.  A lot of people do that--work at something they maybe don't like as much but are good at so they can invest in their passion.  There's nothing stopping you from taking the Devtome writer opportunity and running with it.

Often when I write long posts such as I have in this thread I think hmm maybe I should make it a devtome page and just link to the page from the thread.

But every one of my posts has a link to devtome in my signature, and these posts usually/often mention devcoin and/or devtome, thus are relevant content with links to devtome, so should be helping to increase devtome's page-rank.

Also in case you had not noticed I relatively often include links to devtome pages directly in the text of posts, though you have now in effect reminded me that I have not yet gotten around to turning the word Martians or the phrase my page/article about Martians into an actual link to that page, which I should now go back and do, again to increase the page rank of a devtome page by having real content on a real forum, relevant to the specific page linked to, contain a link to a devtome page...

So I do my part by posting here, its just that mechanisms to make the effect my posts have here (if any) have on the pagerank of devtome pages or devtome itself in its entirety directly reward me are not currently in place.

Plus if my written reasoning here can succeed in getting 80 shares per author cut down to one share per author then my one share for being a whatever should be maybe not worth eighty times as much but sure as heck a hell of a lot more than it is while people are getting 80 shares a round for being an author...

-MarkM-

I'm just saying you might as well cash in by publishing too, and it can be about how you would change the Devtome earnings, but you won't get paid until you actually invoice it on the Devtome

As for the 80 shares per writer, my rather unscientific observations have been that a writer usually gets 80 shares in a round once, maybe twice, and then they're done.  It is very difficult to consistently write that much original content in one month, so once you run out of already written stuff, you're not going to be able to keep that up.  The NaNoWriMo people aim to write 50,000 words of a novel during the month of November and that is a very intense time for them.  I bet they don't write much in December!  More realistically, a writer can write 20 to 30 shares worth per round--that's about how much I'm averaging.  It's plenty intense but still allows for the day job and other duties to be met, and it actually pays out rather well, even with other writers putting in 80 shares from time to time.  If the Devtome people decided to cap earnings at 40 shares starting in round 29, the vast majority of the writers wouldn't even notice.

[FinShaggy]

Just curious, how do those ads pay out, do they payout in cash or btc? It would be ideal if those ads were paid out via purchasing dvc on the open market(since theres always sellers thers no probs getting a good rate on purchasing dvc in the open market as a market order). If these ads can support devtome this would be the most ideal situation as you wouldn't have to worry about any dumping at all! It would be 0 sum from the get go. Actually if sufficient revenue was coming out of the ads you can actually say that you can earn as much as the revenue is being generated. So by writing you have access to x amount of dollars converted to dvc in the pool from the generated revenue of ad clicks and views/page ranks etc. A self sustaining wiki which supports writers would be fantastic!

Devtome, and money-earning projects in general, is/are supposed to support not only themselves but the entire devcoin project/ecosystem.

Yes, the ad revenue is supposed to be used to buy devcoins on exchanges, thus hopefully giving devcoins some actual exchange-rate value.

In order for there to be devcoins for sale on those exchanges for the money-making sites such as devtome to buy, there need to be people or sites or something that actually earns devcoins directly somehow, such as miners and people who are such avid devoted producers of free open source stuff that they got nominated and approved for inclusion in the receivers files, that is to receive a share of devcoins.

The entire 200,000 devcoins minted each round is really only worth as much, all added up, as the amount of money the moneymaking projects manage to bring in each round, on average over time, unless some speculators speculatively buy some coins or some potential customer of a shop or something chooses to buy some coins so as to pay in devcoins for something at a shop (and the shopkeeper likely will only value the coins the customer pays them at pretty much the amount they can dump them on an exchange for, thus ultimately at whatever price the moneymaking projects/sites can afford to buy them for).

So far devtome doesn't seem to have brought in much money.

I would not be surprised if adding code for divvying up more than just the bitcoins to a merged mining p2pool turned out to bring in massively more money than devtome, but thanks to it being massively more lucrative to paste stuff to devtome than to write code for divvying up rewards among p2pool miners such a pool still does not yet exist.

(It could sell all the namecoins, groupcoins, i0coins, ixcoins, coiledcoins and geistgeld for devcoins and use those to pay its bandwidth/hosting/admin costs and reward miners for mining bitcoins at that zero fee p2pool rather than at some other bitcoin mining pool...)

-MarkM-

Why can't the devcoins be bought automatically from vircurex as you know theres always a seller at a good price for a market order? I think there are more than enough people willing to sell , but not enough willing buyers. I think the ad revenue buying devcoins directly is a great first step and there should be ways/ people to help to increase traffic. I know that writing is lucrative right now and it is driving traffic and thus revenue but I think it would be helpful to drive in revenue now that would actually "read" the material since it is free.

FinShaggy is providing some good content that people may want to read, but we don't know if people are even coming in to read. Do we know how many people are coming in to read content vs writers writing? Is there a way to campaign people to come in to read instead of leaving them with wanting to write their own version of what they just read or posting their own stuff... hey I come on here to read all sorts of cool stuff check it out!

Stuff like KhanAcademy is cool because alot of ppl find it useful even schools are starting to use it.

This is the best idea we can get of that, check "Unique Visitors" and "Time on Page".

[FinShaggy]

What I'm saying is the actual book is worth more just as a sheer reference

And I have made it clear I plan on publishing... And no, it is worth more as a book.

[FinShaggy]

Here is an excerpt from ONE SECTION of the book.

There are now FANS, and people saying they want to know when the book is for sale:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255575

[FinShaggy]

Here is an excerpt from ONE SECTION of the book.

There are now FANS, and people saying they want to know when the book is for sale:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255575

Post #48

But I looked through, and the girl that said she wanted to know when it was coming out had her post deleted I think. And other people stop in and say "thanks" or "loved it" and stuff.