[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[eeh]

Thanks for the note. If I get up the courage to reactive the site (which I killed in a fit of pity), then I will happily give you the full goods to the site to do as you will. I just want it to work. Yeah, the bounties are great and make me a little jealous, but hey, I'm mostly a writer. So if you want me to pull a resurrection of the material, I would be happy to hand it over.

Good to see the collaboration, but jealous? You earned 120 shares from writing last round, way more than anyone else I believe. You worked for it so that's not me having a dig at you as I've explained before - I'd say that to the fabled queen of sheba - but the incentive structure is generally quite reversed so I don't think pity is in order here.

Novacadian: For some background, there was a forum created in the past that I linked to, but it also tripped at the same problem. However I'm not sure if everybody's been aware of those requirements so should have been clearer if they weren't. I also just want it to work as there's growing interest in devcoin and this thread is hard to navigate so if you guys can make it happen that would be great.

No, not at all. It was a knee jerk reaction. Another dev at an exchange we are all familiar with backed out on a deal with me at the same time, so I killed everything. Childish. But at least I'm admitting it.

And I am very appreciative of what Devtome allows me to do. I have two more projects in the works, one of which is my first foray into sci-fi, which I really think is simply awesome.

Are you in favor of me registering devto.me as a domain and trying to rework what I created before? If I can find a willing participant, I would be happy to hand of most if not all of the rights for the benefit of creating a forum that fits your guidelines.

EDIT: It's in my shopping cart right now and I'm ready to hit enter to so I can grab it.

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[markm]

Are you in favor of me registering devto.me as a domain and trying to rework what I created before? If I can find a willing participant, I would be happy to hand of most if not all of the rights for the benefit of creating a forum that fits your guidelines.

EDIT: It's in my shopping cart right now and I'm ready to hit enter to so I can grab it.

Whoa, waitasec, are you suggesting you make a closed source forum?

Surely the bounty is for open source?

Also I think Unthinkinbit already secured the domain he wants the forum to be run on?

-MarkM-

[sidhujag]

Guys, when do you think devcoin could pop, I'm talking $0.10+.

For Devcoin to pop, I think everything should be in place.

1. General acceptance crypto currency by the public
2. Smooth clients (PC, mobile, Glass, whatever) that can hide the cryptic addresses (sending to a name instead a hash key)
3. Sufficient value of DVC to be able to fund big and persuasive projects

It feels like a lottery ticket right now, but I am confident it will lead to something. In the current form or in a different manner.

Thats why I added ability to send or recv via QR codes... so later when I get the android wallet in you can use your smart phone to send rcv coins using QR codes instead of addresses.

[eeh]

Are you in favor of me registering devto.me as a domain and trying to rework what I created before? If I can find a willing participant, I would be happy to hand of most if not all of the rights for the benefit of creating a forum that fits your guidelines.

EDIT: It's in my shopping cart right now and I'm ready to hit enter to so I can grab it.

Whoa, waitasec, are you suggesting you make a closed soruce forum?

Surely the bounty is for open source?

Also I think Unthinkinbit already secured the doman he wants the forum to be run on?

-MarkM-

I guess I'm way out of my league. I thought the domain purchase would have to be on someone's nickle anyway and I'm willing to do it. I though devto.me was fitting. Perhaps not.

I'm basically of the opinion to go for it. The source is open. It's all SMF. And I would think that those here would have access enough to fiddle around with whatever they wanted anyway. But again, I may be way off target and need some readjustment.

Again, it's just me getting excited and wanting to get something going. All the talk is great, but I want to see some results.

[weisoq]

No, not at all. It was a knee jerk reaction. Another dev at an exchange we are all familiar with backed out on a deal with me at the same time, so I killed everything. Childish. But at least I'm admitting it.

And I am very appreciative of what Devtome allows me to do. I have two more projects in the works, one of which is my first foray into sci-fi, which I really think is simply awesome.

Are you in favor of me registering devto.me as a domain and trying to rework what I created before? If I can find a willing participant, I would be happy to hand of most if not all of the rights for the benefit of creating a forum that fits your guidelines.

EDIT: It's in my shopping cart right now and I'm ready to hit enter to so I can grab it.

And your work is probably some of the best on Devtome. None of you should give bin efforts - Fuzzy also might be interested for all we know - even if it takes 3 to get it going and share the reward, that's better than 1 and nothing. Better for everyone.

[novacadian]

Novacadian: For some background, there was a forum created in the past that I linked to, but it also tripped at the same problem. However I'm not sure if everybody's been aware of those requirements so should have been clearer if they weren't. I also just want it to work as there's growing interest in devcoin and this thread is hard to navigate so if you guys can make it happen that would be great.

The background is appreciated. The Project does not seem a trivial one without having root access to procmail. My tenure as a scraper, for a group of  Russians during a slow time a few years ago, may be finally paying off. God knows they didn't.

*Nova glances over his shoulder and gets back to scripting*

- Nova

[Edit: typo ]

[smeagol]

Anybody know what's up with altcoincards.com? Was gonna go spend some devcoin and all the internal links 'can't be found.'

The same thing is happening to me, too.  I don't know whats up with it, though.

Guys, when do you think devcoin could pop, I'm talking $0.10+.

I have been seeing many threads about what coin will pop in 2014 but nobody ever mentions dvc..

More press releases! 

[giftculturewriting]

Anybody know what's up with altcoincards.com? Was gonna go spend some devcoin and all the internal links 'can't be found.'

The same thing is happening to me, too.  I don't know whats up with it, though.

I just PMed Max2838 about it (they wrote the initial message announcing it). We'll see what they say about it.

[weisoq]

I just PMed Max2838 about it (they wrote the initial message announcing it). We'll see what they say about it.

I bought a B&N card from the site last week (goods on their way) so may just be a christmas holiday thing.

[giftculturewriting]

I just PMed Max2838 about it (they wrote the initial message announcing it). We'll see what they say about it.

I bought a B&N card from the site last week (goods on their way) so may just be a christmas holiday thing.

Yeah, hopefully it's just something simple, site maintenance, etc.

[Hunterbunter]

Guys, when do you think devcoin could pop, I'm talking $0.10+.

I have been seeing many threads about what coin will pop in 2014 but nobody ever mentions dvc..

That's because DVC is unlike every other crypto-coin, and I think most don't realize how it works, or it's potential yet, just like when bitcoins first started (there are thousand of people who rightfully belong on the bitcoin or devcoin share lists, but they just don't know about it yet). It's doing to open source what mining did to digital currency. The analogy is that of the 200M coins created per round, they're distributed based on the number of people doing work to earn them, instead of machines - with btc everyone competes for the transaction pot with hardware. With dvc, it's essentially the same thing but instead of calculating hashes, people are creating things. As time goes on, the btc hashes get more difficult as the number of miners increase, and similarly dvc payouts become harder to earn because the initial work has already been done, and more difficult work lies in improving it (as well as more people doing work). Collaboration on work is similar to how mining pools operate, and there is an opportunity for people to develop ways to make collaboration between strangers easier.

The only downside is that most of the value from cryptocoins come from speculative demise - that the coins are always going to become rarer, whereas devcoins are created indefinitely (and rightly so, since creative work is not used in the "transaction" system like with bitcoins et al). The upside is that speculation can still exist with dvc, with the added bonus that we get great open source stuff to share and improve. I honestly believe this is stuff that will make headlines once journalists get their heads around its nuances. It probably won't ever be as mainstream as bitcoins, because those are very easy to mine in comparison to this - this requires actual human effort from everyone trying to earn generation shares.

As for the price, for it to hit $0.10 people need a reason to buy them, and there is always going to be selective pressure towards more deflationary currencies over this one, because they are, after all, more deflationary - devcoins take this hit in exchange for allowing the philanthropists/advertisers a way in. Assuming maybe 50-80% of the payout is being cashed out each round, people have to be buying 100M-160M coins from the market with cash or another cryptocurrency every month. This means it needs an in-flow of cash around $10-$20M per month to support everyone selling the coins they earned @ $0.10. That doesn't sound impossible to me, especially if the seriously rich philanthropists who strongly believe in FOSS decide to back it. For it to get there, we need to give people amazing stuff that they just can't get enough of. That means great writing, great media, great software, great websites, etc, and if http://www.devtome.com and it's ilk become as popular as something like wikipedia I don't see why it won't disconnect from the value of other cryptocurrencies and take its own life - the price could very well be $1/coin in 3-10 years time.

[Hunterbunter]

There wasn't a bounty for this; I just thought it was interesting, although I didn't realize how long It'd take me. Is it too late to propose one for it?  

Nice job, Hunterbunter!  The only thing I found that was missing was that I couldn't find my word counts or bounty information.  (most of the time it showed I got 6/5 of a share for marketing and sometimes rating earnings).  As for a bounty, how about 9 shares?

May I propose a 9 share award for Hunterbunter's site?

EDIT: I figured it out; my name is listed as smeagol and Smeagol on the files! 

Thanks .

I can get it to just compare lowercase-lowercase, that'll solve that problem, but it entirely depends on whether different people will be using the same names with different capitalizations in the future. If it's safe to assume not, this is easily fixable.

I've added a "User Payments by Round" section to http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/ which some of you might be interested in.

I'm new to Devtome and I don't seem to be on there.  My user name is zachofiddle and I put that in for round 31 and it comes up with 0.0 shares.  Can someone please make sure I am added correctly?  I published a novella onto Devtome a couple of weeks ago so I think I should be in this round.  Dinkleberg was the admin who set up my account.  Thanks.

Hey zachofiddle, assuming you used correct case, the most likely reason is that the devtome script hasn't been run since you submitted your work. I know my own devtome contributions haven't been added yet, but my bounties have. I don't know whether the admins intend on running it again for this round or not, but if they do, it'll be added, and if not, it'll be added next round. I'm reading the account file to get that data, but its devtome.py that needs to run to update the devtome_31.csv file which is read (I believe) into the account file whenever the account file is updated

I've added a "User Payments by Round" section to http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/ which some of you might be interested in.

Good job, that information seems much clearer than my d.evco.in/charity log.

as a remind, if you retrieve data from d.evco.in/charity, remember not depend on the data on my server, cause the server may be down, the script may be generating new data, the data my be corrupt of an io errror, from time to time. you could copy data back to your server and then analysis it...

Thanks for both your encouragement and your data hosting

I've been getting the csv files off your site every time there's been a request so far, but that was just so I could prototype more quickly, which is also why the site's a bit slow. I will add a local-cache that only checks a few times a day for changes to speed the site up (and stop the server spam!).

[georgem]

Guys, when do you think devcoin could pop, I'm talking $0.10+.

I have been seeing many threads about what coin will pop in 2014 but nobody ever mentions dvc..

That's because DVC is unlike every other crypto-coin, and I think most don't realize how it works, or it's potential yet, just like when bitcoins first started (there are thousand of people who rightfully belong on the bitcoin or devcoin share lists, but they just don't know about it yet). It's doing to open source what mining did to digital currency. The analogy is that of the 200M coins created per round, they're distributed based on the number of people doing work to earn them, instead of machines - with btc everyone competes for the transaction pot with hardware. With dvc, it's essentially the same thing but instead of calculating hashes, people are creating things. As time goes on, the btc hashes get more difficult as the number of miners increase, and similarly dvc payouts become harder to earn because the initial work has already been done, and more difficult work lies in improving it (as well as more people doing work). Collaboration on work is similar to how mining pools operate, and there is an opportunity for people to develop ways to make collaboration between strangers easier.

The only downside is that most of the value from cryptocoins come from speculative demise - that the coins are always going to become rarer, whereas devcoins are created indefinitely (and rightly so, since creative work is not used in the "transaction" system like with bitcoins et al). The upside is that speculation can still exist with dvc, with the added bonus that we get great open source stuff to share and improve. I honestly believe this is stuff that will make headlines once journalists get their heads around its nuances. It probably won't ever be as mainstream as bitcoins, because those are very easy to mine in comparison to this - this requires actual human effort from everyone trying to earn generation shares.

As for the price, for it to hit $0.10 people need a reason to buy them, and there is always going to be selective pressure towards more deflationary currencies over this one, because they are, after all, more deflationary - devcoins take this hit in exchange for allowing the philanthropists/advertisers a way in. Assuming maybe 50-80% of the payout is being cashed out each round, people have to be buying 100M-160M coins from the market with cash or another cryptocurrency every month. This means it needs an in-flow of cash around $10-$20M per month to support everyone selling the coins they earned @ $0.10. That doesn't sound impossible to me, especially if the seriously rich philanthropists who strongly believe in FOSS decide to back it. For it to get there, we need to give people amazing stuff that they just can't get enough of. That means great writing, great media, great software, great websites, etc, and if devtome and it's ilk become as popular as something like wikipedia I don't see why it won't disconnect from the value of other cryptocurrencies and take its own life - the price could very well be $1/coin in 3-10 years time.

Great explanation.

[georgem]

That's because DVC is unlike every other crypto-coin, and I think most don't realize how it works, or it's potential yet, just like when bitcoins first started (there are thousand of people who rightfully belong on the bitcoin or devcoin share lists, but they just don't know about it yet). It's doing to open source what mining did to digital currency. The analogy is that of the 200M coins created per round, they're distributed based on the number of people doing work to earn them, instead of machines - with btc everyone competes for the transaction pot with hardware. With dvc, it's essentially the same thing but instead of calculating hashes, people are creating things. As time goes on, the btc hashes get more difficult as the number of miners increase, and similarly dvc payouts become harder to earn because the initial work has already been done, and more difficult work lies in improving it (as well as more people doing work). Collaboration on work is similar to how mining pools operate, and there is an opportunity for people to develop ways to make collaboration between strangers easier.

But is it for example possible that the guys from blender.org (the 3d program) apply for devcoins?

Do they fulfil all criteria?

They have a large developer base... if they were to barge into devcoin, wouldn't that "increase the difficulty" (to continue your analogy with developing=mining) ?  

That would mean fewer shares for everyone, ...

so what is the goal here? To encourage NEW open source software... or to try and win over all the open source developer programs that already exist?

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right? 

[novacadian]

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right? 

Sign them up! It's not how many but how much one is worth. That's my understanding anyway.

- Nova

[georgem]

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right? 

Sign them up! It's not how many but how much one is worth. That's my understanding anyway.

- Nova

and who /how decides how much one is worth?

Is there something like a thunderdome were two people go in, only one comes out?

[novacadian]

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right? 

Sign them up! It's not how many but how much one is worth. That's my understanding anyway.

- Nova

and who /how decides how much one is worth?

Is there something like a thunderdome were two people go in, only one comes out?

Have you not been to an Exchange? Better than the Casino in Katmandu. A proven to be trustworthy exchange is Vircurex, yet there are a number of them. Day trading can while away an afternoon. 

- Nova

[georgem]

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right? 

Sign them up! It's not how many but how much one is worth. That's my understanding anyway.

- Nova

and who /how decides how much one is worth?

Is there something like a thunderdome were two people go in, only one comes out?

Have you not been to an Exchange? Better than the Casino in Katmandu. A proven to be trustworthy exchange is Vircurex, yet there are a number of them. Day trading can while away an afternoon. 

- Nova

oh sorry, I think we misunderstood each other.
You are talking about the value of devcoins of course.

I was talking about how big a share a developer gets based on "his" value.

I should get to sleep now, it's too late...

[Hunterbunter]

That's because DVC is unlike every other crypto-coin, and I think most don't realize how it works, or it's potential yet, just like when bitcoins first started (there are thousand of people who rightfully belong on the bitcoin or devcoin share lists, but they just don't know about it yet). It's doing to open source what mining did to digital currency. The analogy is that of the 200M coins created per round, they're distributed based on the number of people doing work to earn them, instead of machines - with btc everyone competes for the transaction pot with hardware. With dvc, it's essentially the same thing but instead of calculating hashes, people are creating things. As time goes on, the btc hashes get more difficult as the number of miners increase, and similarly dvc payouts become harder to earn because the initial work has already been done, and more difficult work lies in improving it (as well as more people doing work). Collaboration on work is similar to how mining pools operate, and there is an opportunity for people to develop ways to make collaboration between strangers easier.

But is it for example possible that the guys from blender.org (the 3d program) apply for devcoins?

Do they fulfil all criteria?

They have a large developer base... if they were to barge into devcoin, wouldn't that "increase the difficulty" (to continue your analogy with developing=mining) ?  

That would mean fewer shares for everyone, ...

so what is the goal here? To encourage NEW open source software... or to try and win over all the open source developer programs that already exist?

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right?  

Those are good questions, and I suppose the answer depends on whether you think bitcoins benefited from having more miners. I think it did - the more people who got into it, the more secure the network was (knowledge base, in the case of devcoins), more people started receiving bitcoins and talking about them (the most important thing), which interested more people. If there's a profit motive, and there was a small one with btc when it began, just as there is with dvc now, people will find the time to do what's required. I think it would be an amazing thing for devcoin's true value if all the blender peeps got on board, talked about it to everyone they knew, etc, including their customers and supporters. They'd then be making great software and getting slightly paid for it, which should theoretically produce a better blender faster, not to mention introduce them to other dvc related things.

You've touched on something that is part of why I think bitcoins exceeded so many expectations. The fear of these huge developers/miners coming is part of what makes people do more work now. It's incentive to get off one's bum and do it now instead of wait for someone else to come along and claim the prize, so it actively promotes time-to-market because it appeals to people's competitiveness. This competitiveness doesn't have to be a bad thing, as even in a competitive market we have the pools/collaboration/companies and all that, and it generally produces better quality stuff because teams want to out-do each other.

We really don't have to win anyone over - they will come as soon as they realize they can get paid for stuff they're already doing. Bounties are designed around creating new FOSS stuff, and those are still set by admin/developers/whoever.

I will bet everything I have that if every legitimate FOSS developer in the world got on board dvc tomorrow, the price of dvc would soon go through the roof through pure speculation. With bitcoins, there was always a debate over whether mining difficulty followed price or price followed mining difficulty, and it turned out that there is a mutual dependence, and both of them followed interest in bitcoins and reliability of the code/network. If difficulty was high, it was much cheaper to just buy the coins, and people who would otherwise mine ended up injecting money into the market...if difficulty was low but price high, work went up to match the price extremely quickly. Ultimately it's nicer if there is smooth growth, to avoid turning people off when things don't meet their hyped expectations, but even if there isn't, if it's a genuinely good idea people will come back later. Judging by this, interest is the strongest driving force of price, followed by the value offered by the network.

and who /how decides how much one is worth?

That's the beauty of devcoins, in my opinion. It is floating FOSS onto the free market, so the whole world decides how much it's worth. The more people that value what devcoins do, the more each share will be worth.

[novacadian]

You are talking about the value of devcoins of course.

I was talking about how big a share a developer gets based on "his" value.

As there were less being passed out, provided they were excepted for some goods and services, they would simply be worth more proportionally. That seems to be a given provided the available goods and services could be maintained. That is just my layman's thoughts. Not that of an economist.

I should get to sleep now, it's too late...

My last brownie may have gone down the wrong way as well. 

- Nova