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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 1058355 times)
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psybits
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November 29, 2013, 04:31:04 AM
 #2261

I like the idea of an investment fund.  It would have to be developed further so that everyone has clear expectations about it, but that's something I'd be inclined to invest in too.  One of my expectations would be that I would want nice slick website pages which explain in plain English every single project (a page for each one) with lots of clearly labeled pictures and plenty of discussion about how said project will improve my life.  All those pages would have to be easily found by visiting an easy to remember url.  The entire site should have an FAQ section, post who are the decision makers of the fund and how to reach them, indicate when things are up for a vote, and there should be a blog for project updates (categorized by projects so I could easily find all the updates on any particular project).  When you buy a share, that enters your email address (with your consent of course but it is strongly encouraged) onto the fund mailing list and shareholders are kept updated with everything relevant.  Part of the revenue could come from advertising on the site.

I suggest a 12 share bounty for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, and make sense. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares. Also, I'll invest a lot devcoins in the company if it's traded on Cryptostocks and the business plan looks good.


I agree. As it happens, I am in the process of developing some profitable and sustainable DVC investment funds - I will keep you all posted Smiley
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November 29, 2013, 05:20:43 AM
 #2262

Hey guys hold on to your devcoins they may be worth more than your wildest dreams! Can someone knwoledgable in cryptos please take the time to undertstand and comment on what Im going to write?

User AnonyMint wrote post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=349869.msg3754745#msg3754745 on the thread "Cracking the code" that the tx fees will be the death of bitcoin in 2140 when block rewrds end and argued logically that block rewards continue to avoid mayhem. ofcourse that goes against the original idea and we wouldnt have the same speculative growth knowing phscylogically that there is no end in supply..

However lets examine this statement and what he talks about.. It actually benefits a coin like devcoin and what he is saying is essentially saying devcoin is the currency to actually become viable over bitcoin.

He said freicoin is ok because of demurrage but negative interest doesnt seem appealing on a global scale...

Ppc allows dynamic block rewards based on mining demand supply but not knowing rewards ahead of time can cause panic! I believe a few articles talk about this...so a static block reward is the winner by deduction.

So with static rewards we not only know how many coins to expect so the population knows what they are fighting over.. This will not create panic.. It will also not offer any early adopter hoarding ezcept for the few who mined while reward was low.. Even then only recieved a small fraction of the coims and dumped.. People holding can expect higher prices in a stable manor.. Why?

If population adopts something like devcoin we know population is growing yet supply is static coupled with the fact that as MarkM elluded to that as years pass less coins are minted in relation to total supply, this creates a deflationary situation that offers a small steady inflation that is known. This might be the key.. Today we need inflation but its not static its based on a falling economy.. We alll know a deflationary economy would make more efficient use of our limited natural resources but we need some inflation so lenders will lend and businesses can grow and sustain workforce... The idea of devcoin giving coins in exchange for work is also sound as when you ask me what money means it means i pay someone for work or something that took  work for which is valued in the money.

I would like to know why this isnt better than a pure deflationary system like bitcoin and if you dont agree how you would avoid the transaction withholding attack (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=336350) this guys posts really switched a light on.
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November 29, 2013, 06:10:09 AM
 #2263

For admins who want to do more, there is now the Factotum position. From the latin fac totum, "do/make everything". This is open to all admins who rate writers and who are doing their current job without many delays. Any admin who rates writers can ask me for extra work.

A factotum would fill in gaps when there is no admin or the admin is busy, or do stuff that comes up. I paid a couple of admins who did extra work on an ad hoc basis, this formalizes it. A factotum gets an extra admin salary.

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November 29, 2013, 06:10:51 AM
 #2264

Weisoq has rejoined the admins! He's rejoining as a Category admin.

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November 29, 2013, 09:24:49 AM
Last edit: November 29, 2013, 10:07:37 AM by psybits
 #2265

Here is a proposal for DEVBUZZ  The Bitcoin PR Buzz DVC Investment Fund:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devbuzz_-_the_dvc_bitcoin_pr_buzz_investment_fund_to_be_listed_on_cryptostocks

EDIT: due to heavy traffic Bitcoin PR Buzz is switching to a VPS soon. If the site is hard to access that is why Smiley
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November 29, 2013, 12:27:13 PM
 #2266

Greetings,

I just wanted to say thanks, every DVC post promised, paid, quickly.

Kudos,

~Branzig.

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November 29, 2013, 12:35:12 PM
Last edit: November 29, 2013, 12:49:48 PM by weisoq
 #2267

Hey guys hold on to your devcoins they may be worth more than your wildest dreams! Can someone knwoledgable in cryptos please take the time to undertstand and comment on what Im going to write? ...
Not a specific crypto perspective in the terms you're talking about - where issues such as network effect, mass psychology, market microstructure are playing a big part at the onset. But the issues you outline also relate to the monetary view. The reason I support Devcoin is not necessarily because it’s ‘ethical’ but because of all cryptos it (1) corresponds most to addressing balancing with the real economy and (2) therefore probably corresponds most to future working mass models of e-money where investors, earners and participants effectively take up equity (a share) rather than debt (deposits, lending to the bank).

Short of affecting a coin whose market cap could somehow dynamically adjust to all economic variables to maintain stability and use, the broad Devcoin model is the next best thing. Even if it was possible to maintain that first dynamic option on a local scale (by adjusting for factors such as money supply, circulation, velocity, birth/death etc), that’s pretty much impossible globally. Already the purchasing power parity aspect is very diverse with for example a Bitcoin, price moves and spendability meaning quite different things to say an American than to an Indian (i.e. there's no consideration in the model for locality and economic variables - there are pros and cons of this).

The reason this matters most is not really or only due to the competition or developments among various cryptos to date. It’s because e-money is coming to where you live regardless - central banking, private banking, governments, and people. There are going to be a lot of 'alts' so consideration needs to be made of the competing end(ish) games underlying the big experiment.

So ubiquity should be the goal. Price today is not the same as long-term value. It's quite possible for varying models to serve particular interests and markets but that won't necessarily translate to real mass adoption. Devcoin has the infrastructure and technicalities to progress to the general public. It’s the rate of growth - trending lower over time -  that matters, not the headline per period money supply - as that % of total obviously falls over time.

And on the issue of negative interest I think that's going to happen anyway so the possibility, and the consequent effects on competing alternatives should be considered, particularly in the context of currency, circulation and today's deposit banking model which is dying (been highlighting it for a while on devtome negative interest rate policy). I appreciate it might sound mental today but it's notable in the context of e-money and I’m not making a point on whether that’s good or bad, just a policy forecast.

The other issue is the debate over relative security and control. Particularly what the long-term effects might be for decentralised block chain currencies when an underlying incentive exists to control as much computational power devoted to mining as possible so long as my profit >0 (a dynamic perhaps more obvious with some alts). Devcoin is already merge-mined with Bitcoin, so any security concern is minimised versus others and there doesn’t need to be any conflict - both concepts working to achieve mutual benefit for the others and varying users.

tl;dr  
Frankly I think it all comes down to long-term stability, distribution and compensation. It’s a model like Devcoin that can achieve stability in the future, get currency out to the widest subset of the population, and as the projects/models are developed and decentralisation grows tie that all in with compensation for work in a cryptocurency beyond just miners - something (again like it or not) that could have mass appeal.
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November 29, 2013, 01:49:44 PM
 #2268


Thanks notabot Smiley We're just finalizing getting the listing on CryptoStocks and our new PR deal - which means we can do even more for our clients. Exciting times and we're proud to be offering this DVC fund (I love Devcoin!) as part of the ride Smiley
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November 29, 2013, 02:43:41 PM
 #2269


Thanks notabot Smiley We're just finalizing getting the listing on CryptoStocks and our new PR deal - which means we can do even more for our clients. Exciting times and we're proud to be offering this DVC fund (I love Devcoin!) as part of the ride Smiley
Nice. Give us a heads up when it's on or shares are offered.
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November 29, 2013, 05:01:04 PM
 #2270

Weisoq has rejoined the admins! He's rejoining as a Category admin.

Welcome back!
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November 29, 2013, 05:14:51 PM
 #2271

Hey guys hold on to your devcoins they may be worth more than your wildest dreams! Can someone knwoledgable in cryptos please take the time to undertstand and comment on what Im going to write? ...
Not a specific crypto perspective in the terms you're talking about - where issues such as network effect, mass psychology, market microstructure are playing a big part at the onset. But the issues you outline also relate to the monetary view. The reason I support Devcoin is not necessarily because it’s ‘ethical’ but because of all cryptos it (1) corresponds most to addressing balancing with the real economy and (2) therefore probably corresponds most to future working mass models of e-money where investors, earners and participants effectively take up equity (a share) rather than debt (deposits, lending to the bank).

Short of affecting a coin whose market cap could somehow dynamically adjust to all economic variables to maintain stability and use, the broad Devcoin model is the next best thing. Even if it was possible to maintain that first dynamic option on a local scale (by adjusting for factors such as money supply, circulation, velocity, birth/death etc), that’s pretty much impossible globally. Already the purchasing power parity aspect is very diverse with for example a Bitcoin, price moves and spendability meaning quite different things to say an American than to an Indian (i.e. there's no consideration in the model for locality and economic variables - there are pros and cons of this).

The reason this matters most is not really or only due to the competition or developments among various cryptos to date. It’s because e-money is coming to where you live regardless - central banking, private banking, governments, and people. There are going to be a lot of 'alts' so consideration needs to be made of the competing end(ish) games underlying the big experiment.

So ubiquity should be the goal. Price today is not the same as long-term value. It's quite possible for varying models to serve particular interests and markets but that won't necessarily translate to real mass adoption. Devcoin has the infrastructure and technicalities to progress to the general public. It’s the rate of growth - trending lower over time -  that matters, not the headline per period money supply - as that % of total obviously falls over time.

And on the issue of negative interest I think that's going to happen anyway so the possibility, and the consequent effects on competing alternatives should be considered, particularly in the context of currency, circulation and today's deposit banking model which is dying (been highlighting it for a while on devtome negative interest rate policy). I appreciate it might sound mental today but it's notable in the context of e-money and I’m not making a point on whether that’s good or bad, just a policy forecast.

The other issue is the debate over relative security and control. Particularly what the long-term effects might be for decentralised block chain currencies when an underlying incentive exists to control as much computational power devoted to mining as possible so long as my profit >0 (a dynamic perhaps more obvious with some alts). Devcoin is already merge-mined with Bitcoin, so any security concern is minimised versus others and there doesn’t need to be any conflict - both concepts working to achieve mutual benefit for the others and varying users.

tl;dr  
Frankly I think it all comes down to long-term stability, distribution and compensation. It’s a model like Devcoin that can achieve stability in the future, get currency out to the widest subset of the population, and as the projects/models are developed and decentralisation grows tie that all in with compensation for work in a cryptocurency beyond just miners - something (again like it or not) that could have mass appeal.

+1 I think our discussion needs to be right on the front of "What is devcoin?" this will definetily put the seemingly awkward technicalities in perspective of real world applications and thus adoption for the future. Great post and if everyone coming to rhe project read our discussion the visiter to adopter rate would be massive!
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November 29, 2013, 06:17:45 PM
 #2272

+1 I think our discussion needs to be right on the front of "What is devcoin?" this will definetily put the seemingly awkward technicalities in perspective of real world applications and thus adoption for the future. Great post and if everyone coming to rhe project read our discussion the visiter to adopter rate would be massive!
There's a lot that's slowly changing with regards to the financial and real economy. Cryptos are frontrunning some of it, devcoin front runs more of it because it's building a base for equity entry that could simply appeal to a much larger pool of human capital and ideas, as well as effective equity financing (taking a stake). That doesn't imply perfection but things evolve. More visibility is good but I think on core principles people have to think things through for themselves. There's a difference between personally prefering/not a particular model and acknowledging the reflection of certain emerging trends within it/not. I believe the aspects we discuss will become better appreciated over time, and I'm patient.

Smeagol - cheers been helping out with stuff anyway so may as well do it properly.
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November 29, 2013, 07:56:26 PM
 #2273

+1 I think our discussion needs to be right on the front of "What is devcoin?" this will definetily put the seemingly awkward technicalities in perspective of real world applications and thus adoption for the future. Great post and if everyone coming to rhe project read our discussion the visiter to adopter rate would be massive!
There's a lot that's slowly changing with regards to the financial and real economy. Cryptos are frontrunning some of it, devcoin front runs more of it because it's building a base for equity entry that could simply appeal to a much larger pool of human capital and ideas, as well as effective equity financing (taking a stake). That doesn't imply perfection but things evolve. More visibility is good but I think on core principles people have to think things through for themselves. There's a difference between personally prefering/not a particular model and acknowledging the reflection of certain emerging trends within it/not. I believe the aspects we discuss will become better appreciated over time, and I'm patient.

Smeagol - cheers been helping out with stuff anyway so may as well do it properly.

A+ Welcome back!
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November 29, 2013, 08:05:33 PM
 #2274

..
So how do we implement original photography, painting, music and design share distribution?

The plan is to make the forum first, because it's impractical to work on many projects in one giant thread. I suggest doubling the forum bounties from 24 shares to 48 shares, any objections?

Once we have the forum, I think the easiest site would be a design site. Each object would have instructions on how to build it, and 3d (stl) and/or 2d (svg) design files. Text is easy to count, and relatively easy to check for plagiarism.

For the other sites, text descriptions will be required, because that will make it easier to stop plagiarism and give something to count. However, since most of the value would be in the artwork, which can't be automatically counted, it would be harder to determine earnings.

Quote
Is there a way to upload original audio content on Devtome?

I don't think so, you can link to a youtube video.

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November 29, 2013, 08:51:15 PM
 #2275

..
So how do we implement original photography, painting, music and design share distribution?

The plan is to make the forum first, because it's impractical to work on many projects in one giant thread. I suggest doubling the forum bounties from 24 shares to 48 shares, any objections?

Once we have the forum, I think the easiest site would be a design site. Each object would have instructions on how to build it, and 3d (stl) and/or 2d (svg) design files. Text is easy to count, and relatively easy to check for plagiarism.

For the other sites, text descriptions will be required, because that will make it easier to stop plagiarism and give something to count. However, since most of the value would be in the artwork, which can't be automatically counted, it would be harder to determine earnings.

Quote
Is there a way to upload original audio content on Devtome?

I don't think so, you can link to a youtube video.


I think the bounty is fine as it is right now. We're experiencing a huge surge in both DVC (over 100% boost so far and still going up) and BTC. As such, the value is already going up considerably.

https://nanogames.io/i-bctalk-n/
Message for info on how to get kickbacks on sites like Nano (above) and CryptoPlay!
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November 29, 2013, 09:18:06 PM
Last edit: November 29, 2013, 09:35:37 PM by smeagol
 #2276

I think the bounty is fine as it is right now. We're experiencing a huge surge in both DVC (over 100% boost so far and still going up) and BTC. As such, the value is already going up considerably.

Spend your devcoins while they're surging!

http://gotdevcoin.tk/home.html

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=where_to_spend_your_devcoins

Both sites have been recently updated with some new businesses, and more are coming!
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November 29, 2013, 09:32:57 PM
 #2277

I think the bounty is fine as it is right now. We're experiencing a huge surge in both DVC (over 100% boost so far and still going up) and BTC. As such, the value is already going up considerably.
I think that while the max devtome per round payout is 80 shares per person it's difficult to justify building and implementing a forum as required for less than a third of that (but I do see your point on assumed payout at these prices). An alternative would be to adjust the maximum share per writer per round - it rolls over anyway so no net loss at stable prices, spreads out earnings and perhaps addresses some transiet dumping risk by keeping more skin in the game.
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November 29, 2013, 11:19:54 PM
 #2278

I think the bounty is fine as it is right now. We're experiencing a huge surge in both DVC (over 100% boost so far and still going up) and BTC. As such, the value is already going up considerably.
I think that while the max devtome per round payout is 80 shares per person it's difficult to justify building and implementing a forum as required for less than a third of that (but I do see your point on assumed payout at these prices). An alternative would be to adjust the maximum share per writer per round - it rolls over anyway so no net loss at stable prices, spreads out earnings and perhaps addresses some transiet dumping risk by keeping more skin in the game.

Personally i like the idea of themarket deciding price for work so assign shares to bounties until complete? Reduce shares per round to writers?
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November 30, 2013, 12:05:33 AM
 #2279


The plan is to make the forum first, because it's impractical to work on many projects in one giant thread. I suggest doubling the forum bounties from 24 shares to 48 shares, any objections?

Once we have the forum, I think the easiest site would be a design site. Each object would have instructions on how to build it, and 3d (stl) and/or 2d (svg) design files. Text is easy to count, and relatively easy to check for plagiarism.


I would be willing to purchase a VPS and host this forum, is there a link to the requirements for it?
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November 30, 2013, 12:06:57 AM
Last edit: November 30, 2013, 09:06:11 AM by weisoq
 #2280

Personally i like the idea of themarket deciding price for work so assign shares to bounties until complete? Reduce shares per round to writers?
You mean shares or absolute amount of dvc? I'm with you on the market factor but the various share components aren't constants so it would be difficult for any natural market consenus to pin down a value on an unknown. I wasn't even getting into the general devtome/payment issue, as I think people know my view. Was only referring to the max(round).

Very few submit anywhere near 80k in a round, but this has a disproportionate effect on everything dvc (not just other writers, but also other writers). There's still no submission limit and I don't see the need for one, but everything above a lower-than-80 amount would still just get rolled to the next round as now. I don't know what the right number is but if a forum is 24-48, a feature animation is ~50 and a simple Open Transactions client is 96 then I'd say quite a bit lower than 80.

On Open Tansactions, has anyone actually tried installing it? Be interested to know what functionality exists. www.opentransactions.org
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