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Author Topic: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Core 0.10 upgrade  (Read 1031111 times)
reRaise
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July 11, 2014, 09:42:13 PM
 #6301

Yellow,
 So what happens to existing Quark holders with their coins in a Proof of Burn process? Do they lose that investment?

YC


It depends upon how many Quarkholders decide to move to the new coin.

Basically, proof-of-burn is the process of creating coins by destroying old ones. You make a quark wallet that only has a public address (no private key) and people can trade their quarkcoins for the new coins by sending quarks to that address. The foundation would monitor the address via the block explorer during the distribution period and when it was over they would send the new coins to people who took advantage of the process.

Since there is no private key, no one can ever spend those coins again. Essentially, they are destroyed.

So basically, If I send 50k QRK to the wallet address I will lose those quarks forever but will be rewarded with the equivalent of 50k QRK in the new currency. This is how Counterparty created their currency (they burned Bitcoin).

There are several scenarios about how this could affect people who decide not to move to Core, however.

1. The majority of Quark-holders move.

In this scenario, most of the Quark community transitions to Core. This will effectively kill Quark...the community will be so small that investors will lose confidence and sell out....unless somehow the remaining community stands firm and attracts new members. If that happened, then the price of QRK would probably go up quite a bit. So many Quarkcoins had been destroyed that those that remained would be worth a lot more.

2. A small portion of Quark-holders move

Say Quarkfx decides to launch core but only 5% of the community wants to go with him. This will probably leave Quark basically intact (as long as they still have a dev., foundation, etc.)...so Core should not affect Quark to much...the only effect would probably be a tiny bump in value to account for the coins that had been destroyed.

I wouldn't know why the community wouldn't want to move to a better Crypto with more dev activity and promising features. I would, as a Quark holder.

What we would get from this move is: security problem will be solved, development funds, more dev activity and techs added. Although we really should try to keep ShaqFu, it's something that really separates a Crypto from others, it's something no other Crypto can have. With new techs other cryptos can add it as well but something like ShaqFu is special, so we need to make sure if ShaqFu devs can go with Core instead of quark, if we explain it i don't see a reason why they shouldn't.

Overal i like this, but need to see what the rest thinks about this as well.
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July 11, 2014, 09:54:18 PM
 #6302

Talking about new coin (Core) without any characteristics of that coin is nonsense.

If market needs nonsenses that is ok.

Instead of thinking about what Doge did in its first month (exchange, Doge markets everywhere), instead of thinking about creating exchange where quark might be exchanged to hundreds of coins you discuss about exchanging Quarks to new Coins with unknown characteristics. Is that something better than nonsense?

If I was reading such and other nonsenses (listed in my prev posts) before half year, I would not have Quarks today. I will wait at 20 sat what is right price for such ideas.

QuarkCoin which established one of the main directions among virtual coins deserves much better, not big set of nonsenses.



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July 11, 2014, 09:55:59 PM
 #6303

Yellow,
 So what happens to existing Quark holders with their coins in a Proof of Burn process? Do they lose that investment?

YC


Not sure who you believe doesn't have a real problem if Quark fails. I know folks that have made significant investments in Quark not to have it just fall in price and die.

What I referred to was a sort of last choice in case we won´t be able to find another reliable perspective. Proof-of-burn would be one way to raise money for community and development, design things from scratch and catch some attention in the crypto scene but I won´t play down the fact that it would imply a lot of hard work and risk.


I think if we want to have any hope of maintaining Quark's value during the switch we need to use proof-of-burn (granted, Quark's value is super-low right now but we are still around #20 in marketcap among the hundreds and hundreds of coins out there). I worry that if we make a companion coin without killing quark (or at least some quarkcoins) then all we will do is divide the quark community in half. Some will stick with quark and others will move to the companion coin...especially if it experiences a pump after its launch.

To ensure that the new coin has value we need to destroy something that currently does have value--i.e. quarkcoins.


Just my 2 quarks.

This is a good point and i agree with this. It will divide the community and will make quark fade away, i would rather go with Core. I wouldn't know why ShaqFu devs wouldn't agree if we tell them that quark moved to core. ShaFu is one of the biggest Crypto achievements and we need to keep it.

Is not much simpler that Shaq Fu create his own clone?  Grin



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July 11, 2014, 09:59:12 PM
 #6304


What algorithm will core go for?


That needs to be figured out by someone who has a better technical understanding than me. I am all for using Quark Algo but it may be a problem due to POS+POW

Quote
  - I'm not sure if holders would want to store 40% of their assets away and get them monthly back in a period of 36 months. What if someone would want to have all of it back because of personal circumstances?

@coinerer
 Keep repeating. Quark deserves muxh better? I am all on your side. No provide this solution,

Why would they do it? Because a) they don't lose anything and b) they get something for it: everyone knows that people can only spend a small part of their property and that if they dump the other part is essentially lost. AND everyone knows that everyone knows - sounds odd but this condition actually causes trust. People would all sit innthe same boat and know that they need (and will) rely on each other. This effect gets smaller the more time passes. Thia gives Core time to build a solid infrastructure and decreases pumping & dumping.

Quote
    - What will happen to ShaqFu and quark and the game you are working on?

May be lost,  maybe not. Would depend on how Quark develops. If there us no Quark at that tme but the whole community migrated to Core I dont see why the project couldn't be switched too. But yeah, highly hypothetical.  On the other hand: When ShaqFu arrives and Quark is highly instable this could be pretty awkward...

Quote
   The price is also important, what are the estimations of cores price when everyone converts and things start to run? Obviously the aim should be higher than the current quark prices.    


I dont think that the price is important at all. What mattets is prospect. A coin with dedicated developers andcommunity will raise people's interest and give prospect to the project.  If there is no prospect then value will eventually reach 0. I don't think Quark has no prospect, but if it turns out that development will stagnate then it is rather mobing towards 0.

Of course, if you call for radical approaches like this one you expect a rise of value, but in the end the market decides, not us.

@Yellow

Yeah, have the same concerns with regard to the companion coin. I would expect the community to  "fork" eventually. Proof of burn allows people to chose freely and it ensures that EVERYONE donates to the community.

@coinerer

Keep repeating...Quark deserves better? I am 100% with you. Now provide these solution en detalle and I will be happy to follow.

P.S. Your compiled wallets don't help with the hashrate issue.
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July 11, 2014, 10:08:13 PM
 #6305


I wouldn't know why the community wouldn't want to move to a better Crypto with more dev activity and promising features. I would, as a Quark holder.

What we would get from this move is: security problem will be solved, development funds, more dev activity and techs added. Although we really should try to keep ShaqFu, it's something that really separates a Crypto from others, it's something no other Crypto can have. With new techs other cryptos can add it as well but something like ShaqFu is special, so we need to make sure if ShaqFu devs can go with Core instead of quark, if we explain it i don't see a reason why they shouldn't.

Overal i like this, but need to see what the rest thinks about this as well.


Do you really enjoy telling people cut your losses after the fall of 95%?

You should work for some famous institutions and its story tellers Grin


Better crypto. lol

Better features. lol

Promising features sell. lol

...

Say simple, pump and dump.



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quarkfx
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July 11, 2014, 10:28:32 PM
Last edit: July 11, 2014, 10:39:56 PM by quarkfx
 #6306


You should work for some famous institutions and its story tellers Grin

Sure is that in comparison to you I will be the hell of a storyteller Smiley

Quote
Do you really enjoy telling people cut your losses after the fall of 95%?

Better than telling that everything is fine like you do, right?.

Quote
Better crypto. lol

Better features. lol

Promising features sell. lol

...

Say simple, pump and dump.



You know, people usually draw their conclusions from how they would act on their own Smiley

P.S. Also funny to hear that talk from a guy who is advertising GoldCoin with his account lulz

Quote from: quarkfx

Keep repeating...Quark deserves better? I am 100% with you. Now provide these solution en detalle and I will be happy to follow.

Soooo, let's see what you provided: exactly what I expected. Thanks for nothing. >> ignore
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July 11, 2014, 10:29:22 PM
 #6307


@coinerer

Keep repeating...Quark deserves better? I am 100% with you. Now provide these solution en detalle and I will be happy to follow.

P.S. Your compiled wallets don't help with the hashrate issue.


my compiled wallet is only a small and easy step to improve something a bit. Nothing big improved. Just compiled with newest libraries (it required somewhat big work to me, new in compiling wallets Smiley )

I also tried personally to work in updating/correcting new early development stage wallet 0.9.2. It is very big job especially for me now. Smiley It requires very deep understandings how every wallet or gui works. My fast and nervous attempts of the changing code are not good for such work Smiley



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July 11, 2014, 11:32:54 PM
 #6308

So what is the conversion? Is it 1 to 1? I can't expect that the new coin's supply will be the same as Quark, which means I would get less of the new coin. Also, I think you will need to create huge level of trust for someone to send a large amount of Quark only then to have a party send the new coin. It needs to automatic or seamless. Not sure how, but see some security issues with that.

YC

Yellow,
 So what happens to existing Quark holders with their coins in a Proof of Burn process? Do they lose that investment?

YC


It depends upon how many Quarkholders decide to move to the new coin.

Basically, proof-of-burn is the process of creating coins by destroying old ones. You make a quark wallet that only has a public address (no private key) and people can trade their quarkcoins for the new coins by sending quarks to that address. The foundation would monitor the address via the block explorer during the distribution period and when it was over they would send the new coins to people who took advantage of the process.

Since there is no private key, no one can ever spend those coins again. Essentially, they are destroyed.

So basically, If I send 50k QRK to the wallet address I will lose those quarks forever but will be rewarded with the equivalent of 50k QRK in the new currency. This is how Counterparty created their currency (they burned Bitcoin).

There are several scenarios about how this could affect people who decide not to move to Core, however.

1. The majority of Quark-holders move.

In this scenario, most of the Quark community transitions to Core. This will effectively kill Quark...the community will be so small that investors will lose confidence and sell out....unless somehow the remaining community stands firm and attracts new members. If that happened, then the price of QRK would probably go up quite a bit. So many Quarkcoins had been destroyed that those that remained would be worth a lot more.

2. A small portion of Quark-holders move

Say Quarkfx decides to launch core but only 5% of the community wants to go with him. This will probably leave Quark basically intact (as long as they still have a dev., foundation, etc.)...so Core should not affect Quark to much...the only effect would probably be a tiny bump in value to account for the coins that had been destroyed.
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July 12, 2014, 01:44:52 AM
 #6309


Let's try this instead of storytellings:


Does somebody want to invest in Quark just for buying possible new Coin Core - coin without any known characteristics?



Should I set poll with this question?  Grin



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July 12, 2014, 04:08:14 AM
 #6310

I gave up on Quark after Kolin's rant. I focus on the future now... what does it do in the future?

Anonz want to remain Anonymous. It's up to those who follow along with us.  My favorite coins?  Magi, Bitcoin, and Darkcoin. Thread about XMG: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.0 - Market of XMG: https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-XMG - #Magi on Freenode IRC:  https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/#magi
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July 12, 2014, 05:40:57 AM
Last edit: July 12, 2014, 08:53:50 AM by quarkfx
 #6311

So what is the conversion? Is it 1 to 1? I can't expect that the new coin's supply will be the same as Quark, which means I would get less of the new coin.

I answered the question already in the proposal. Beside that it doesn't really mattter how many units you get but how much share you get (1:0.9).

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Also, I think you will need to create huge level of trust for someone to send a large amount of Quark only then to have a party send the new coin. It needs to automatic or seamless.  

Yep. (Isn't ptoof of burn exactly that?)


Anyway, In my opinion we are currently spending too much time in discussing a solution that should be a last resort and not our first interest. I won't advocate this solution if there is ANY other solution that will raise hashrate and trust.
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July 12, 2014, 10:19:14 AM
 #6312

I am still holding quarks and will not sell them for any reason!
I even not mined them, but worked hard for them when one qrk was at its top.
Even if qrk dies on every exchange I will keep my hard earned coins.
Never give up, never surrender! Smiley
BR
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July 12, 2014, 10:37:29 AM
 #6313

Going with proof of burn and keeping the quark name is also an option
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July 12, 2014, 11:09:38 AM
Last edit: July 12, 2014, 11:23:08 AM by cryptohunter
 #6314

@cryptohunter


the problem is here, that we have not acted or reacted to what the market wants for 6 months and the price is falling off of a cliff. Time is a real concern here.

I agree that too much time has passed undone (especially since some people simply talked problems away) but this doesn´t change that we need to weigh up advantages and disadvantages in the present and should at no cost rush into any solution in my opinion.

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2. half the qrk holders will not use their qrk to buy coins with POS and anon features. They seem to highly object to them being added to qrk anyway.

On what base do you make this statement?

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3. we could release this coin in batches and control the amount of QRKs that can be used to pay for the new coin.

4. the foundation will control the qrk that was used to buy the new coin they will not dump it on the market like those leaving qrk for other coins.

Even if the foundation would control the Quarks and hold them back from market people will ask themselves if they should rather stick with quark or the other coin and why the hell there is a second coin. From the perspective of an observer this is confusing and as long as there is no obvious good reason why there are two coins it doesn´t sound sustainable to me.

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Are you part of the QRK foundation already?

I received a foundational mail address because I was contacting possible external partners, so I would consider myself to be associated to the foundation. I always rejected to become part of the foundation as long as it has no democratic and transparent structure. However, I am working closely with the people and I can tell you that everyone is working hard to find a solution. I think the problem that makes it take so long is a lack of institutionalization. The foundation needs a real structure and things will become more effective and less time consuming. However, this is tough work and all of us have normal life, work & freetime. This is why I am pushing for public discussions. We should do this together and exchange opinions publicly.

@reRaise

I don´t know to whom DI refers when he says "we". I know he had his own plans - if the Foundation would have agreed on something like this I would know and it is no t the case.



Hi there,

Been away for a couple of days... although great to return and see some discussion going on.


1. - Yes - not rush but must act within a reasonable time frame.

2. - Basing this statement on what people have said in the thread ( so has small power statistically speaking) but i see a lot anti POS/anon - basically any kind of new features.

3. - The clear reason for the 2nd coin would be - more features, POS, Anon and anything else to catch rides on hype trains (never ignore hype) it brings qrk new members of the community and new BTC.
       I would keep some of my qrks and not switch them over because yes mainstream application is likely to look more towards coins that are open and are not anon. Who knows maybe pos has flaws etc , there            are many reasons i would still hold my qrks. Also all new services created by the qrk pot and new companion coin pot can accept qrk too.

4.- I am glad you're part of the foundation. I like active members.  I like people that want to have open discussions on things before implementation.


Again i can only stress that i see Zero negatives for the companion coin. It is no more competition that the other 400 coins out there, it will bring many advantages.

This time though we need to ensure a very active development team, community manager/s, marketing teams and project managers. All should be rewarded for completed tasks upon completion. No more expecting people to work for free. They need to be fully invested and committed to qrk and the new companion coin. QRK has started to die because it is competing against teams that have full funding and have more resources and motivation.

Max made a great coin, but i watched nothing be done until it sank to 21 sats. This will happen again. He did not premine nor instamine and to be honest i would not even like to say he has any qrk remaining. He is probably a very high level coder and has a great job. QRK was quite possibly a fun project not something he wants to dedicate his life to.

First thing we need is some new leadership. A set out structure of the foundation so we know who is who, and how committed they are.

Next we need to action some of these plans. I see no difference between coin swapping/burning than the ipo is QRK? this is the same thing except they are going to destroy the qrk? This is kind of a trust based idea again. How to we know the keys are destroyed? I don't like the idea and also there is no reason to destroy it. The fact it will be taken off the market and held by the foundation in a transparent address is enough to see that is taken off of the market and only released as and when the community thinks it is a good time. I could be years of funds for projects and services to bring on teams that are committed to qrk.

You will see as these qrks are taken out of the market qrk along with new planned development for qrk and its companion coin the price of qrk will rocket. There are not many qrks being sold but there are zero buyers. Bring in some reason to buy and you will see a very sharp reversal.

However time is critical. We need to get going now while we have some purchasing power behind us.

May be we make it that you can only buy so many of the new companion coin at one time..... then based on activity and qrk dedication you can buy more. There are lots of interesting things we can do here. First the leadership, 2nd the coders. I mean without some high level coders behind us there is no point discussing it. However if i was a coder and was told there will be a 10% development pot + the large QRK pot to use up over the next years + an established community + a ton of real investors that can be reached by bill once we have some rock solid investments for them. QRK is still in a great position and if i were a coder i would be very keen to put myself forward for this.


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July 12, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
 #6315

@ Cryptohunter this is what i worry about with a companion coin.

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I think if we want to have any hope of maintaining Quark's value during the switch we need to use proof-of-burn (granted, Quark's value is super-low right now but we are still around #20 in marketcap among the hundreds and hundreds of coins out there). I worry that if we make a companion coin without killing quark (or at least some quarkcoins) then all we will do is divide the quark community in half. Some will stick with quark and others will move to the companion coin...especially if it experiences a pump after its launch.

To ensure that the new coin has value we need to destroy something that currently does have value--i.e. quarkcoins.


Just my 2 quarks.
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July 12, 2014, 11:20:18 AM
 #6316

@ Cryptohunter this is what i worry about with a companion coin.

Quote

I think if we want to have any hope of maintaining Quark's value during the switch we need to use proof-of-burn (granted, Quark's value is super-low right now but we are still around #20 in marketcap among the hundreds and hundreds of coins out there). I worry that if we make a companion coin without killing quark (or at least some quarkcoins) then all we will do is divide the quark community in half. Some will stick with quark and others will move to the companion coin...especially if it experiences a pump after its launch.

To ensure that the new coin has value we need to destroy something that currently does have value--i.e. quarkcoins.


Just my 2 quarks.

@ReRaise, Cryptohunter, ycagel, Gondel anyone

Meet me in the document and let´s put those different ideas with pros and cons together so we have a list:

http://bit.ly/quarkscenarios
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July 12, 2014, 11:33:26 AM
 #6317

@ Cryptohunter this is what i worry about with a companion coin.

Quote

I think if we want to have any hope of maintaining Quark's value during the switch we need to use proof-of-burn (granted, Quark's value is super-low right now but we are still around #20 in marketcap among the hundreds and hundreds of coins out there). I worry that if we make a companion coin without killing quark (or at least some quarkcoins) then all we will do is divide the quark community in half. Some will stick with quark and others will move to the companion coin...especially if it experiences a pump after its launch.

To ensure that the new coin has value we need to destroy something that currently does have value--i.e. quarkcoins.


Just my 2 quarks.

Sorry i had not finished updating my post...


No i don't think this would happen. Ask yourself what you would do.

1. I think when we have a clear plan of action with the teams in place i mentioned you will see a lot of people buying qrk ready to purchase the new coin. These will be new blood and new btc.

2. I hold a lot of qrk. Will i sell them all for the new coin? No way. Most big stores and business will not deal with an unknown tech like POS and anon. These i think will be used rather for other things but still these things we must provide for. So qrk itself will stay open and transparent. QRk will be getting a large development pot this will be in conjunction with the price of qrk rising. That pot will have long term purchasing power for qrk development and services too.  I like the QRK name, it has history now in crypto terms, it has the shaq fu game coming, everyone in crypto knows qrk. I think it can have great long term prospects. I would swap no more than 50% max and that is if the new coin really had a great white paper , lots of services coming and good support from the crypto community.

Why must we destroy the qrk? if it is taken off of the market and held until such time we can sell small chunks to bring in and motivate new teams. May be we would not even consider using that pot until qrk reaches 30k sats again. Even then it does not need to be directly sold to the market. It can be off market transfers for services provided. Most services providers will likely want to hold a nice chunk of their investment. Sure eventually all qrks will trickle on to the market at some point. We just need a huge market before it does. We can control this.

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July 12, 2014, 12:06:46 PM
Last edit: July 12, 2014, 03:57:10 PM by reRaise
 #6318

@ Cryptohunter this is what i worry about with a companion coin.

Quote

I think if we want to have any hope of maintaining Quark's value during the switch we need to use proof-of-burn (granted, Quark's value is super-low right now but we are still around #20 in marketcap among the hundreds and hundreds of coins out there). I worry that if we make a companion coin without killing quark (or at least some quarkcoins) then all we will do is divide the quark community in half. Some will stick with quark and others will move to the companion coin...especially if it experiences a pump after its launch.

To ensure that the new coin has value we need to destroy something that currently does have value--i.e. quarkcoins.


Just my 2 quarks.

Sorry i had not finished updating my post...


No i don't think this would happen. Ask yourself what you would do.

1. I think when we have a clear plan of action with the teams in place i mentioned you will see a lot of people buying qrk ready to purchase the new coin. These will be new blood and new btc.

2. I hold a lot of qrk. Will i sell them all for the new coin? No way. Most big stores and business will not deal with an unknown tech like POS and anon. These i think will be used rather for other things but still these things we must provide for. So qrk itself will stay open and transparent. QRk will be getting a large development pot this will be in conjunction with the price of qrk rising. That pot will have long term purchasing power for qrk development and services too.  I like the QRK name, it has history now in crypto terms, it has the shaq fu game coming, everyone in crypto knows qrk. I think it can have great long term prospects. I would swap no more than 50% max and that is if the new coin really had a great white paper , lots of services coming and good support from the crypto community.

Why must we destroy the qrk? if it is taken off of the market and held until such time we can sell small chunks to bring in and motivate new teams. May be we would not even consider using that pot until qrk reaches 30k sats again. Even then it does not need to be directly sold to the market. It can be off market transfers for services provided. Most services providers will likely want to hold a nice chunk of their investment. Sure eventually all qrks will trickle on to the market at some point. We just need a huge market before it does. We can control this.

if we go with a companion coin we must keep quark involved as much as possible with the new coin to keep it interesting and certainly NOT give people the idea that we are jumping out of quark and converting to the new one. On the other hand the new coin must be successful for both coins to succeed. We also need to keep people interested in quark. Attention to both coins from especially the core members needs to be evenly balanced.
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July 12, 2014, 03:02:12 PM
 #6319

Btw. you can also join me in the same document where we are developing a solid structure for the future forum of Quark. The forum is meant to be the place where

- the Foundation informs about ongoing projects & update status
- the Community elects representants of the Foundation or expresses their opinion on routelines the Foundation should take
- the Community develops projects and joins taskforces
- the Community crowdfunds ideas
- the Community earns Quark for participation in discussion processes (like this one)
- add what you like

If you want to help out with the tech, you can also join #quarkuniverse and contact us (cashmen, iamfx, jomk)


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July 12, 2014, 04:21:23 PM
 #6320

The more i think the more i like Cryptohunters opinion to go for a companion coin. This way Quark will be here and it's issues will be solved, i believe the dev pot will be higher if we go with a companion coin and it doesn't have to come from the community. People are free to buy the new coin, i know that new blood will come by and the new coin can be as gateway for new people to join quark. I would buy the companion coin and would hold the majority of my quark as well. Also i'm not that sure if the community will be divided completely because quarks hash rate is going to be fixed + more active dev and quark it is also pretty well known amongst everyone. If we just market both quark and the new coin in a balanced way it should be alright.
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