Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[MinermanNC]

This is the account where the coins from chip orders have gone:
https://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU?offset=0&filter=0

I addressed this awhile ago, who says that address is ours to begin with?

Oh shit,,,now that would be a serious problem wow what a horrible thought...lol

[Micky25]

This is the account where the coins from chip orders have gone:
https://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU?offset=0&filter=0

I addressed this awhile ago, who says that address is ours to begin with?

Oh shit,,,now that would be a serious problem wow what a horrible thought...lol

this would just be a straight continuation of their previous extremely professional business behaviour. Obviously, it could even be, they forgot about a complete chip batch order payment:

I checked the payment for the 5 batches in our groupbuy and 4 went to this address: https://blockchain.info/de/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU

The 5th, which in fact is our second batch, is still in the address i sent it to. It must be a bitpay controlled address. Maybe yifu didnt took it out or bitpay gave him other bitcoins.

But that should prove that this address isnt the only one containing chip batch payments.

But, honestly, who cares? If cash keeps flowing in from everywhere and the sun keeps on shining out of your ass, who gives a fuck about $ 75,000 more or less?

https://blockchain.info/address/1ECoeDfK79CNm1Mzx6NMMkZrHVocwNg6Sp

[erk]

I wouldn't want to be a BitSyncom employee right now, with multi million dollars worth of chips going missing, I bet some really nasty people are out for blood, hence the security precautions that they have to take now, but the monies involved are so high that they would have to close the factory and find an underground bunker!

[greaterninja]

I know another forum member who spent $550,000 + USD in bitcoin buying units...he then asked for a refund...then..Finally Avalon sends the units 1 month, 3 weeks later. ~5 months late.

[Minor Miner]

I know another forum member who spent $550,000 + USD in bitcoin buying units...he then asked for a refund...then..Finally Avalon sends the units 1 month, 3 weeks later. ~5 months late.

No, that is not possible because the great Yifu and Zhang would not sell that many units to one person.   They are only doing this for the betterment of bitcoin and know that the network must not be concentrated.   You must be mistaken. 

[Bitcoinorama]

I know another forum member who spent $550,000 + USD in bitcoin buying units...he then asked for a refund...then..Finally Avalon sends the units 1 month, 3 weeks later. ~5 months late.

No, that is not possible because the great Yifu and Zhang would not sell that many units to one person.   They are only doing this for the betterment of bitcoin and know that the network must not be concentrated.   You must be mistaken. 

Yeah, I thought they were runs of 300? Or have they been selling multiples on the side?

[sprint347]

Bitcoin, a de-centralized currency

[Bitcoinorama]

Bitcoin, a de-centralized currency

...far away from greedy banksters and corrupt senior government officials.

[MinermanNC]

I wouldn't want to be a BitSyncom employee right now, with multi million dollars worth of chips going missing, I bet some really nasty people are out for blood, hence the security precautions that they have to take now, but the monies involved are so high that they would have to close the factory and find an underground bunker!

Oh I seriously doubt any chips have gone missing,,,,,,Im sure they(avalon) know exactly where every one of them is, maybe they just haven't bothered to tell zifu yet?

[jspielberg]

I think that might be Horserider.  He ordered 55 units if memory serves.

At the time no one seemed to particularly mind to much... but March seems so long ago it is a bit hazy.

[greaterninja]

I know another forum member who spent $550,000 + USD in bitcoin buying units...he then asked for a refund...then..Finally Avalon sends the units 1 month, 3 weeks later. ~5 months late.

No, that is not possible because the great Yifu and Zhang would not sell that many units to one person.   They are only doing this for the betterment of bitcoin and know that the network must not be concentrated.   You must be mistaken. 

Yeah, I thought they were runs of 300? Or have they been selling multiples on the side?

From what I've seen:  Fidehl who was the very first person to receive over 300,000 Avalon chips ~June 30, 2013.  He told me batch #1 of his clones was sold out.  He had posted pictures of working units as well.  This leads me to believe at least one other batch has been produced and delivered already in China.

[bigbeninlondon]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

[Bitcoinorama]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

There's actually a lot of truth in that.

[Ytterbium]

Bitcoin, a de-centralized currency

...far away from greedy banksters and corrupt senior government officials.

You should really give up on this idea, dude.  What makes bitcoin work is the algorithm, as long as the algorithm works, then it doesn't matter who's involved.

I mean can you really say a bunch of bankers are really that much less ethical then BFL? Or even Avalon at this point?

As Satoshi pointed out in his paper: one person controlling 51% of the network doesn't mean "the network is over", they can't really just print money, because the blocks will be invalid.  All they can do is prevent transactions from going through.  And of course, they have no reason to do so, because it would make all their equipment worthless.

And, of course, it would be possible to fork the blockchain from the point where they started messing with it.

Finally, remember, all these ASICs coming out from all these different companies is bad for miner profitability, but they all serve to increase the strength of the network, which was the original idea behind the block rewards.

But it's totally naive to think that bitcoin won't attract the attention of bankers.  Just look at the Winklevoss bitcoin trust. If bitcoin is going to go up in value, then the very wealthy are going to get involved, whether or not you like it.

It's the algorithm that keeps things working the way they are supposed too, and not subject to manipulation. It doesn't matter who's involved or what their motivations are.

[Ytterbium]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.

What sucks, though is that the people who did take the completely blind, initial risk did get their payoff, and Avalon built up trust before the chip orders.

I think that's what people don't understand about totally unregulated markets.  Libertarians always talk about how if a company does bad, they'll ruin their brand.  We're seeing that in action. 

But the flip side is that when people build up brand equity, it means they can cash that equity out.  Make promises using the brand in exchange for tons of money - and then fail. You no longer have the brand, but now you've got all the money. 

That's one thing "Vulture Capitalists" do.  It's also what AIG did - used it's 100 year insurance pedigree to sell credit default swaps it couldn't actually cover.

[bigbeninlondon]

And AIG was part of the REGULATED markets.  So if extreme amounts of regulation can't prevent "equity cashouts", what's the point of the regulation?  To me it seems the regulation just prevents people like me from even taking the risk.  If these chips don't show up I'm out a significant amount of money.  Nothing ball breaking, because I knew from the outset that there were risks.  However, had this panned out the way it appeared, I might have been staring at quite a return.  I'm glad I'm able to take the risk, even if it means I sometimes get burned.

I would not, however, have built a business around Yifu's word.  He didn't have enough trust built up with me.

I'm hoping that these kinds of scandals will peter out some as people realize that having complete control of your money comes with responsibilities.  Since we don't have big bad government backing every buyer, we have to be MORE cautious who we trust with our money.

[Unacceptable]

So Yifu was in Amsterdam??

I don't see a TSMC fab there................

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/manufacturing/locations.htm


Hmmmmm 

[Ytterbium]

So Yifu was in Amsterdam??

I don't see a TSMC fab there................

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/manufacturing/locations.htm


Hmmmmm 

He didn't say there was a fab there, that's just their european HQ (presumably for meeting with european clients)

   TSMC Europe B.V.
   TEL: 31-20-3059900
   World Trade Center(H7), Zuidplein 60, 1077 XV Amsterdam, The Netherlands

[Unacceptable]

So Yifu was in Amsterdam??

I don't see a TSMC fab there................

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/manufacturing/locations.htm


Hmmmmm 

He didn't say there was a fab there, that's just their european HQ (presumably for meeting with european clients)

   TSMC Europe B.V.
   TEL: 31-20-3059900
   World Trade Center(H7), Zuidplein 60, 1077 XV Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Ahhhh,Thanks!! 

[MinermanNC]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

ALL asic purchases are a gamble, especially on the said delivery window,,,,,they all suck,,,