Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[Vigil]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.

What sucks, though is that the people who did take the completely blind, initial risk did get their payoff, and Avalon built up trust before the chip orders.

I think that's what people don't understand about totally unregulated markets.  Libertarians always talk about how if a company does bad, they'll ruin their brand.  We're seeing that in action. 

But the flip side is that when people build up brand equity, it means they can cash that equity out.  Make promises using the brand in exchange for tons of money - and then fail. You no longer have the brand, but now you've got all the money. 

That's one thing "Vulture Capitalists" do.  It's also what AIG did - used it's 100 year insurance pedigree to sell credit default swaps it couldn't actually cover.

They can "cash out" justly so long as they don't violate a contract, whether written or verbal.

[erk]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

ALL asic purchases are a gamble, especially on the said delivery window,,,,,they all suck,,,

It's because people's greed overrides common sense, in other industries you wouldn't do pre-payments  for months or year in advance! The sellers have preying on the fear of increasing difficulty to drown out logical thinking.

[Vigil]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

ALL asic purchases are a gamble, especially on the said delivery window,,,,,they all suck,,,

It's because people's greed overrides common sense, in other industries you wouldn't do pre-payments  for months or year in advance! The sellers have preying on the fear of increasing difficulty to drown out logical thinking.

There are pre-orders in video games.

[MinermanNC]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

ALL asic purchases are a gamble, especially on the said delivery window,,,,,they all suck,,,

It's because people's greed overrides common sense, in other industries you wouldn't do pre-payments  for months or year in advance! The sellers have preying on the fear of increasing difficulty to drown out logical thinking.

There are pre-orders in video games.

Ya from reputable players like EA games, Microsoft, Blizzard, kinda comparing apples to oranges here

[Bitcoinorama]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

ALL asic purchases are a gamble, especially on the said delivery window,,,,,they all suck,,,

It's because people's greed overrides common sense, in other industries you wouldn't do pre-payments  for months or year in advance! The sellers have preying on the fear of increasing difficulty to drown out logical thinking.

There are pre-orders in video games.

Almost certainly the travel industry.

[erk]

There are pre-orders in video games.

That's kids, they are still learning common sense, not making investment decisions.

[jermwerty]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

+1

[MinermanNC]

Ill bet after all the hoopla is over in here and the dust settles, 99.9% of all of us chip investors" will still be here a week maybe 2-3 from now waiting for our chips...ya know why? cause we really ain't got much else to choose from to do, and short term thinking would be to take a "wait and see approuch" even tho it pains us deeply to wait another day, yet another month? (Deep down inside I really want the Klondikes) I like the concept. Just hope it all doesn't get squirrelled around on us any worse than it is. And quit worrying about the difficulty lvl so much. BTC value should counter that loss starting soon! and if it doesn't, than all of this wont matter much a year from now.

[cardcomm]

To paraphrase the movie "The Girl Next Door":

Mother of Avalon Buyer: "What's wrong, my son?"
Avalon buyer: "That Yifu."
Avalon buyer: "He fucked me, Mom. He fucked me so bad!"
Mother of Avalon Buyer: "Son of a bitch!"

[Tsukene]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

+1

+1

[cardcomm]

Obviously you don't read Steamboat's or Zefir's threads....

Steamboat posted on his thread since all this happened? That's news to me and I've been watching pretty carefully. Would you post a link please?

thanks

[kjj]

This is what unregulated looks like.  Sure there are fraudsters.  Nothing stops that.  Sure there are scams.  Nothing stops that either.  But at least here you have a CHOICE.  You weren't required to trust Yifu.  You decided to.  I decided to.  We all did.  We made a mistake.  We bet on someone who didn't already iron out all the kinks.  Turns out some of those kinks were pretty solid.

Yes, Yifu made promises he couldn't keep.  So did BFL.  This isn't the first time and won't be the last.  But Jesus you all wine so much about being "scammed" when part of the reason many of you are even HERE was because you believed in unregulated markets.  

Caveat Emptor, right?  Maybe this will teach us to properly vet the investments we choose to pursue.

You seem to be confused.  Fraud is a criminal matter, not the product of regulation.  For that matter, contracts are a civil matter, also not part of regulation.

Those that support deregulation are in favor of allowing honest ponzi schemes.  Like if someone says "I'm going to pay you from the money I get from people that join after you, and the people that join too late are screwed."  Most libertarians would be fine with that.  However, if the same guy said "I'm going to invest your money in postage futures." but really paid early investors with money paid in by later investors, that is both fraud (dishonesty) and breach of contract (didn't do what he promised).  Very few people in favor of deregulation are also in favor of legalizing fraud, and only the really extreme guys are in favor of gutting the civil court system.

[bigbeninlondon]

Fraud is a criminal matter, not the product of regulation.

How does something become a crime?  A regulation (read law) bans it.

Most libertarians would be fine with that. 

Thanks for speaking for everyone.

fraud (dishonesty) and breach of contract (didn't do what he promised).

I don't recall "dishonesty" being banned.  Seems like everywhere I look something is lying to me (Products with big-breasted ladies implying they'll want you if you buy the product is a pretty universal "fraud" perpetuated by legitimate companies).

Very few people in favor of deregulation are also in favor of legalizing fraud, and only the really extreme guys are in favor of gutting the civil court system.

How can you "legalize" something in a market with no regulations or laws?  Seems to me that I'm not the confused one.

[AdamKD]

You seem to be confused.  Fraud is a criminal matter, not the product of regulation.  For that matter, contracts are a civil matter, also not part of regulation.

Those that support deregulation are in favor of allowing honest ponzi schemes.  Like if someone says "I'm going to pay you from the money I get from people that join after you, and the people that join too late are screwed."  Most libertarians would be fine with that.  However, if the same guy said "I'm going to invest your money in postage futures." but really paid early investors with money paid in by later investors, that is both fraud (dishonesty) and breach of contract (didn't do what he promised).  Very few people in favor of deregulation are also in favor of legalizing fraud, and only the really extreme guys are in favor of gutting the civil court system.

Seriously?     Comments like that are the most naive and idiotic nonsense I've ever read.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I am DISGUSTED by most replies here. Almost all comments here are about missing ROI and the like. Hardly anyone mentions the terrifying times that team Avalon and their family went through and probably still are.

It's just GREED all the way.

Imagine you are a bright young man, with some bright friends, able to make a unique product that brings in millions and then you, your team and family found yourself in the crosshair of <fill in your local mafia>. All of you would take CARE OF YOUR FAMILY and would have to put your CRM on halt.

Yes, I am a customer of Bitsyncom, machines and chips.
Yes, I am waiting for some chips, but I will never let greed take over.
Yes, I will buy again.

Call me stupid, call me an idiot, but at least I am still decent.

Just catching up and wanted to add a little input here.

Zhou Tong once expressed fear for his family even though to this day there's not one shred of information available on the internet linking to a single one of his family members.

Yifu should consider himself lucky that my nemesis du jour dons a red nose.

[MinermanNC]

If you haven't watched this video, then you should. Actually I found this very impressive. Yifu obviously knows his shit" this is one of the best question and answer sessions I have seen in recent memory. I wouldn't under estimate this guy in terms of his abilty.  This was just a little over 9 weeks ago. So pull up a chair, grab a beer or coffee or both and listen to how he addresses things. Pretty darn smart for a young guy.  He has accomplished more than I first gave him credit for. Until now in my mind he was just the guy with the asic chips etc. Found this 25 minute video very interesting in many ways, in contrast to what has been being said in here. Guess if we dont like how he operates then we can always start our own asic machine building company enjoy..meet mr. yifu lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1xgGiejIc

[Vigil]

If you haven't watched this video, then you should. Actually I found this very impressive. Yifu obviously knows his shit" this is one of the best question and answer sessions I have seen in recent memory. I wouldn't under estimate this guy in terms of his abilty.  This was just a little over 9 weeks ago. So pull up a chair, grab a beer or coffee or both and listen to how he addresses things. Pretty darn smart for a young guy.  He has accomplished more than I first gave him credit for. Until now in my mind he was just the guy with the asic chips etc. Found this 25 minute video very interesting in many ways, in contrast to what has been being said in here. Guess if we dont like how he operates then we can always start our own asic machine building company enjoy..meet mr. yifu lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1xgGiejIc

It certainly takes a lot of dedication and technical knowledge to pull this off, but not impressed.

[Ytterbium]

You seem to be confused.  Fraud is a criminal matter, not the product of regulation.  For that matter, contracts are a civil matter, also not part of regulation.

No, you seem confused. Civil and criminal laws are what make up regulations.

If a regulation requires you to do "X" then it means there is some law that says if you don't do "X" then you have to go to jail or pay a fine or maybe will be liable in a lawsuit.

In some cases laws are passed and require lower level people in government to do 'rule making', which can be complicated and unnecessary.

[erk]

If you haven't watched this video, then you should. Actually I found this very impressive. Yifu obviously knows his shit" this is one of the best question and answer sessions I have seen in recent memory. I wouldn't under estimate this guy in terms of his abilty.  This was just a little over 9 weeks ago. So pull up a chair, grab a beer or coffee or both and listen to how he addresses things. Pretty darn smart for a young guy.  He has accomplished more than I first gave him credit for. Until now in my mind he was just the guy with the asic chips etc. Found this 25 minute video very interesting in many ways, in contrast to what has been being said in here. Guess if we dont like how he operates then we can always start our own asic machine building company enjoy..meet mr. yifu lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1xgGiejIc

It's quite obvious from that video that Yufi thinks mining with the gear is more profitable than selling it, I disagree, but it may be that Avalon is far too slow at selling and building gear which leads him to that conclusion.

[GodHatesFigs]

Libertarians aren't anarchists. Free market proponents uphold contract law.