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erk
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August 28, 2013, 03:34:45 AM |
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It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs. What were they thinking? What sort of a business plan is that? I know, more must be better!
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jspielberg
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August 28, 2013, 03:38:56 AM |
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The other chips (bitfury and their own 28nm) mentioned in the article make more sense for long term mining (as stated).
I don't think they were planning on getting to 4PH on Avalon chips.... you would need your own power station. The part of the article that didn't make sense to me was the "supercomputer"? A super computer would be crappy as a hasher compared to an asic.
Maybe the whole article is full of crap... /shrug
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Syke
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August 28, 2013, 03:40:23 AM |
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It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.
Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs.
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Buy & Hold
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erk
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August 28, 2013, 03:43:51 AM |
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The other chips (bitfury and their own 28nm) mentioned in the article make more sense for long term mining (as stated).
I don't think they were planning on getting to 4PH on Avalon chips.... you would need your own power station. The part of the article that didn't make sense to me was the "supercomputer"? A super computer would be crappy as a hasher compared to an asic.
Maybe the whole article is full of crap... /shrug
Even if they get better chips, the hash rate is rising faster than Moore's Law, which works on hardware performance doubling every 18mths. I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months. I bet when the big farms made their plans, they didn't know about KNCminer, Hashfast, Cointerra, BFL 28nm etc.
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DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis
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August 28, 2013, 03:52:57 AM |
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It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.
Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs. 17.9 PH @ $100 exchange rate & $0.10 per kWh. It could happen mid next year. If you believe some of the "exponential growth forever" kids it will happen in 10 weeks or some nonsense. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279
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erk
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August 28, 2013, 04:11:25 AM |
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It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.
Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs. 17.9 PH @ $100 exchange rate & $0.10 per kWh. It could happen mid next year. If you believe some of the "exponential growth forever" kids it will happen in 10 weeks or some nonsense. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning. If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either. The article also said Bitmine were in Hong Kong where the electricity is way more than $0.10 per kWh. http://www.hkelectric.com/web/CommercialAndIndustrialServices/BillingPaymentAndElectricityTariff/TariffTable/Index_en.htm
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DeathAndTaxes
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August 28, 2013, 04:27:55 AM |
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Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning. If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either. Good point on the AC.
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User705
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First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
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August 28, 2013, 05:09:55 AM |
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I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.
+1 You are very right about this. Bitcoin mining does not make any business sense. Only when projections of ever increasing BTC/USD exchange rate are included a business plan, the numbers add up. Big farms have big capital expenditures, operating costs AND ever decreasing profits. How is it attractive from a business perspective? It is extremely risky, needs lots of capital and profits are decreasing every two weeks. You need to add more capital to invest in more hardware and infrastructure to maintain the same profit level. But even then the the actual profit/capital invested is decreasing as time goes on. If you build 14M data center, the capacity of that center might be reached within first few months, then what? You build another one? Another 14M? Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning. If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either. Good point on the AC. I got an interesting idea regarding this. Looking for trusted hero members to partner up. If any are interested PM me plz.
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superduh
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August 28, 2013, 05:12:46 AM |
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Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.
I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.
intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable.
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ok
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erk
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August 28, 2013, 05:23:47 AM |
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So where did that Avalon chip shipment that was tracked to Hong Kong end up, at Bitmine?
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rebelrat
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August 28, 2013, 05:31:33 AM |
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Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.
I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.
intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable. Could not agree more. As I said before, to hurt the gangsta is to take his money, that seems what he craves. His actions are criminal, by any legal standard, that is besides the civil liabilities incurred. Well played, a good legal team can bury him financially for the rest of his life, besides the time he will have to serve. We are talking about several Million $ - that is no chickenfeed, not by any standard. When you get caught embezzling Millions, you usually end up doing time in the US.
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eve
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August 28, 2013, 05:43:08 AM |
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So where did that Avalon chip shipment that was tracked to Hong Kong end up, at Bitmine?
A possibility Bitmine have to pay extra to shipped the chips maybe another $2k or so to Yifu, so he can ship his batch a head of others,.
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Unacceptable
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August 28, 2013, 06:06:03 AM |
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Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.
I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.
intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable. Could not agree more. As I said before, to hurt the gangsta is to take his money, that seems what he craves. His actions are criminal, by any legal standard, that is besides the civil liabilities incurred. Well played, a good legal team can bury him financially for the rest of his life, besides the time he will have to serve. We are talking about several Million $ - that is no chickenfeed, not by any standard. When you get caught embezzling Millions, you usually end up doing time in the US. Sonny V. from BFL got away with it(slap on the wrist only),so will Y I FU ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole." -Raylan Givens Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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badalien
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August 28, 2013, 09:11:12 AM |
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Yifu ripped us, day by day by day. Day by day lies. The men must in court.
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SebastianJu
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August 28, 2013, 10:18:59 AM |
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I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.
+1 You are very right about this. Bitcoin mining does not make any business sense. Only when projections of ever increasing BTC/USD exchange rate are included a business plan, the numbers add up. Big farms have big capital expenditures, operating costs AND ever decreasing profits. How is it attractive from a business perspective? It is extremely risky, needs lots of capital and profits are decreasing every two weeks. You need to add more capital to invest in more hardware and infrastructure to maintain the same profit level. But even then the the actual profit/capital invested is decreasing as time goes on. If you build 14M data center, the capacity of that center might be reached within first few months, then what? You build another one? Another 14M? Its not correct that a rising bitcoin exchange price is good for anything. If you await that the bitcoin price is rising then it would be smarter to simply buy bitcoins.
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Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
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erk
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August 28, 2013, 10:30:22 AM |
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Its not correct that a rising bitcoin exchange price is good for anything. If you await that the bitcoin price is rising then it would be smarter to simply buy bitcoins.
I'm pretty certain by now that most people are counting on the BTC price to rise. As we have seen, people will do weak business plans an build big mining farms regardless of the trends and facts about difficulty staring them in the face.
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pajak666
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August 28, 2013, 07:10:28 PM Last edit: August 28, 2013, 07:34:50 PM by pajak666 |
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Ok here as promised: Photos from chinese stuff importer in Poland. According to what he says somebody ordered 500 chips by him, and did not show up to pick up his order. Here is most funny part, he writes: "mamy 500szt, ale nic nie stoi na przeszkodzie, aby w około miesiąc czasu ściągnąć większą ilość z Azji, gdyby tylko miał Pan zbyt na to." Which stands for "we got 500 pieces, but it's not a problem to import whole lot more from Asia, only if you could find a place where to sell it" He is just a middle man, clueless what to do with the chips ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi1163.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq554%2Flolatronshik%2Ffotd693_zpsd42c4dd3.jpg&t=665&c=Ekc69Qes9oVkQA) Hi res pictures http://extrazoom.com/image-5697.html?heuln50x50http://extrazoom.com/image-5696.html?heuln50x50He is asking 31$ per chip. VOILA that's where yifu shipped bitcointalk community chips, to a local resellers in Asia Alibaba offers are real and toabao offers are real. Still not in the mood for a proper lawsuit?
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SebastianJu
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August 28, 2013, 07:25:19 PM |
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Its not correct that a rising bitcoin exchange price is good for anything. If you await that the bitcoin price is rising then it would be smarter to simply buy bitcoins.
I'm pretty certain by now that most people are counting on the BTC price to rise. As we have seen, people will do weak business plans an build big mining farms regardless of the trends and facts about difficulty staring them in the face. Maybe some of them want a couple of my bitburner when i have them... ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.
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Xialla
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August 28, 2013, 08:01:32 PM |
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He is asking 31$ per chip. VOILA that's where yifu shipped bitcointalk community chips, to a local resellers in Asia Alibaba offers are real and toabao offers are real. Still not in the mood for a proper lawsuit?
hmm it is so sad, how this chinese idiot from basement fuck up with community here. no words to comment this..
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