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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 153968 times)
anakrea
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February 21, 2018, 11:12:55 AM
 #3061

Well, everyone is not prohibited to earn money from signature or anything else in this forum, as far as i know. Merit just make sure that the money is going to the "right and worthy" person.
You mean the persons who joined the forum earlier and therefor had the chance to rank up by spamming  Wink

Look man, i envy them too, but what is the function of whining and pointing out they have upperhand because past system? It wont make our accounts rank up instantly, it wont make the merit system erased, it wont make us any richer. It is better to give your energy to earn merit mate. And to point out, you are not even here when this forum didnt have campaign to pay for their user, while some of the old members do.
And for your info, there are worse people who can earn money from this forum, the alt-account, because not only they get a lot of money, they block the chance of others to earn money.
I don't care about the bounty campaigns anyway, as I don't want to participate in them. I'm here to discuss about cryptocurrency. I just wanted to point out, that the merit system does not only benefit "the right and worthy persons" but currently it mainly favors the old accounts. This does not necessarily match  Wink
Maybe in some months/years, also the "right and worthy" persons benefit directly from the Merit-system. Only time will tell  Cheesy

"It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
J.R.R. Tolkien - The Lord of the Rings
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nascrypto
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February 21, 2018, 11:33:14 AM
 #3062

But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits Smiley.
No. 

You go ahead and do whatever soul-uplifting research you need to do, and whenever you start writing something worth reading, then you might earn some merits.  I don't hand them out to spam monkeys for free.  Do you feed your neighborhood skunks? 

Didn't think so.


Understood.... I just corrected my comment. I didn't beg for merit. My intention was that the seniors can be a bit generous with the newbie and encourage them with their initial posts.
nascrypto
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February 21, 2018, 11:43:11 AM
 #3063

system change is better, but it hard to newbie earn more from bounty!!!!

Every change that is made for this forum is for the better of this forum. I have not been here for long but i already seen so many spam and things, in fact i can be considered as a spammer before time, but merit changed me to level up myself. You can be like me too, everyone can, maybe even better than me.
This is a forum, treat it as a place to gather and talks among the community, and give something good for it, and then you might get a return from it like knowledge, popularity, merit and money as a bonus. In my opinion, it is not a sin if you want to earn money, but if you set it as your main reason to be here and earn it with bad tricks, then it is a big sin and you deserve hell because of it.

I agree with you but there's this uncertainty that your efforts will not be even rewarded for it. For example, you replied to a post that you're interested to participate in and you composed a post that you know for yourself that you did everything but is not rewarded for it because they just didn't give any attention to it or it has been buried because there's a lot of people posting in the thread. So it means that there no incentives will be given even if you put ample of time and effort that you can for it? I also agree with the merit system that we have not but I think there's room for improvement because what we wanted to filter out here is spammers populating the forum.

Thanks for the explanation. Yet it's very difficult for a newbie to collect merits. Still, I'll try to increase my knowledge regarding the technology, concepts and culture related to blockchain and cryptocurrency. Once I gather enough information, I can start contributing with rich contents and earn merits. But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits Smiley.

You were doing good till you posted the last line. Be clear what you want:

1) Learning and improving the quality of posts and earning those merits.

2) Some merits by begging.

You do not need both, believe me.


I believe what he's talking about was, there are some Sr. Members extending their hands out to newbies by giving away merits for their quality posts.
You can check it out with the link below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2832127.0

Thanks for your support and clarification. That's partially what I wanted to say in my post. I never begged for merit. If my post/comment contains no value why should one even waste their time reading that? I just asked seniors to be a bit generous with the newbie and encourage them with their initial posts. Might be using the term merit in the last line confused some people.
nullius
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February 21, 2018, 02:01:59 PM
 #3064

@nascrypto, you did not mention in your posts here that you have you have multiple negative trust feedback for merit begging, e.g.:

Quote from: nullius
#1587051 “nascrypto” openly claimed insufficient ability to earn merits, purported a will to learn—and then concluded, “But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits Smiley.” By analogy, see how this reeks of dishonesty: “I don’t understand all the material, professor. I really want to learn. Meanwhile, you can encourage me by giving me an A. ;-)” FOR SHAME. And all the worse whereas intelligent questions rising from a *sincere* desire to learn are regularly awarded merit in the appropriate forums.

Now, observe that the following three posts are consecutive in your post history (archived snapshot):

  • 2018-02-20 05:55:10Z: Archived from this thread; this is the post which caused you to be “red-tagged” by another person and by me:

    Thanks for the explanation. Yet it's very difficult for a newbie to collect merits. Still, I'll try to increase my knowledge regarding the technology, concepts and culture related to blockchain and cryptocurrency. Once I gather enough information, I can start contributing with rich contents and earn merits. But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits.

    Red colour is here added.  In the post as it appears now, that text is crossed out; in the post as archived by me at 2018-02-21 06:16:51Z, it is not crossed out.  (It is good you did not try to delete it; though I infer a likelihood you knew it was archived.)
  • 2018-02-20 08:44:43Z: Archived from the thread titled, “Re: 🌎 [AIRDROP] [ICO] ConnectJob - The Uber of Services 🌎”:

    Insert Quote
    #Proof of ownership:
    - Telegram: @naacrypto
    - Twitter: @nas_crypto
    - https://www.facebook.com/nas.crypto.1
  • 2018-02-21 11:33:14Z: Archived from this thread:

    But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits Smiley.
    No.  

    You go ahead and do whatever soul-uplifting research you need to do, and whenever you start writing something worth reading, then you might earn some merits.  I don't hand them out to spam monkeys for free.  Do you feed your neighborhood skunks?  

    Didn't think so.


    Understood.... I just corrected my comment. I didn't beg for merit. My intention was that the seniors can be a bit generous with the newbie and encourage them with their initial posts.

Your following posts consist of another post in this thread saying similarly (archived), and then another application for an airdrop (archived).

A question for you, based on reasonable inferences:  Between 06:16:51Z and 08:44:43Z today (2018-02-21), did you receive any sort of denial of eligibility for an airdrop bounty campaign (or other adverse consequence) due to having negative (red) trust?

That is a very important question.

This matter is off-topic here.  Although I do think my posting the foregoing here is a salutary instruction to others who might ask for “some free merits Smiley”, I will not substantially discuss this further in this thread.  Should there be anything further to discuss, then I will create a thread in Reputation.

/0 
  😼
“Qui mori didicit, servire dedidicit.”
StelioKontos
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February 21, 2018, 04:53:40 PM
 #3065

This posts-from-the-past-scavenging thing is getting a bit out of control after the introduction of The System.

freebitcoin
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nullius
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February 21, 2018, 05:57:33 PM
 #3066

This posts-from-the-past-scavenging thing is getting a bit out of control after the introduction of The System.

Not that it’s relevant, but what are you talking about?  All the posts I quoted and archived were made within about the past 36 hours.  Again, not that that’s relevant.

/offtopic

/0 
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“Qui mori didicit, servire dedidicit.”
TheBeardedBaby
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When Merit Source?


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February 21, 2018, 06:11:54 PM
 #3067

Proposal, the negative trust members or at least the traded accounts to receive less sMerit due to a high risk of trading sMerit.

So instead of 0.5 sMerit for 1 merit point, let it be 0.25.

The last few cases indicates that some of the useless high rank accounts for bounties are used for merit trading.





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TMAN
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February 21, 2018, 06:18:07 PM
 #3068

Proposal, the negative trust members or at least the traded accounts to receive less sMerit due to a high risk of trading sMerit.

So instead of 0.5 sMerit for 1 merit point, let it be 0.25.

The last few cases indicates that some of the useless high rank accounts for bounties are used for merit trading.


Or they get banned?? Much better idea if you ask me

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TheBeardedBaby
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February 21, 2018, 06:24:42 PM
Last edit: February 21, 2018, 08:25:28 PM by iasenko
 #3069


Or they get banned?? Much better idea if you ask me
Yeah, perfect solution but who is going to ban them? I see so many now selling and buying accounts,just people with red trust everywhere.

The sMerit reduction for red trust is general approach and less time consuming. Many will be disappointed and will give up.





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tricker01
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February 21, 2018, 09:35:19 PM
Merited by mharz (2)
 #3070

Mates is there's a way to delete merit given? How it is?
There is no way to delete this. When sending merits, a new page opens up. Thus, you cannot give a member merit by mistake.
Sometimes it was happen due too poor connection, all I know I give merits to those who have a quality poster but after review I give it to users who can't deserve it. However thanks for your information, now I need to make sure that I can't send a merit to the users who not deserve it.
JayJuanGee
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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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February 21, 2018, 11:59:54 PM
 #3071


Or they get banned?? Much better idea if you ask me
Yeah, perfect solution but who is going to ban them? I see so many now selling and buying accounts,just people with red trust everywhere.

The sMerit reduction for red trust is general approach and less time consuming. Many will be disappointed and will give up.

sMerit reduction for red trust seems like a ridiculous proposed solution from my point of view - since the merit system and the trust system are separate, and bringing in some kind of reduction of sMerit formula for red trust would likely cause more problems than it solves in terms of adding complexity and possible unintended bad player gaming consequences.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
nascrypto
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February 22, 2018, 02:16:26 AM
 #3072

@nascrypto, you did not mention in your posts here that you have you have multiple negative trust feedback for merit begging, e.g.:

Quote from: nullius
#1587051 “nascrypto” openly claimed insufficient ability to earn merits, purported a will to learn—and then concluded, “But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits Smiley.” By analogy, see how this reeks of dishonesty: “I don’t understand all the material, professor. I really want to learn. Meanwhile, you can encourage me by giving me an A. ;-)” FOR SHAME. And all the worse whereas intelligent questions rising from a *sincere* desire to learn are regularly awarded merit in the appropriate forums.

Now, observe that the following three posts are consecutive in your post history (archived snapshot):

  • 2018-02-20 05:55:10Z: Archived from this thread; this is the post which caused you to be “red-tagged” by another person and by me:

    Thanks for the explanation. Yet it's very difficult for a newbie to collect merits. Still, I'll try to increase my knowledge regarding the technology, concepts and culture related to blockchain and cryptocurrency. Once I gather enough information, I can start contributing with rich contents and earn merits. But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits.

    Red colour is here added.  In the post as it appears now, that text is crossed out; in the post as archived by me at 2018-02-21 06:16:51Z, it is not crossed out.  (It is good you did not try to delete it; though I infer a likelihood you knew it was archived.)
  • 2018-02-20 08:44:43Z: Archived from the thread titled, “Re: 🌎 [AIRDROP] [ICO] ConnectJob - The Uber of Services 🌎”:

    Insert Quote
    #Proof of ownership:
    - Telegram: @naacrypto
    - Twitter: @nas_crypto
    - https://www.facebook.com/nas.crypto.1
  • 2018-02-21 11:33:14Z: Archived from this thread:

    But, at the same time, the seniors can encourage us with some free merits Smiley.
    No.  

    You go ahead and do whatever soul-uplifting research you need to do, and whenever you start writing something worth reading, then you might earn some merits.  I don't hand them out to spam monkeys for free.  Do you feed your neighborhood skunks?  

    Didn't think so.


    Understood.... I just corrected my comment. I didn't beg for merit. My intention was that the seniors can be a bit generous with the newbie and encourage them with their initial posts.

Your following posts consist of another post in this thread saying similarly (archived), and then another application for an airdrop (archived).

A question for you, based on reasonable inferences:  Between 06:16:51Z and 08:44:43Z today (2018-02-21), did you receive any sort of denial of eligibility for an airdrop bounty campaign (or other adverse consequence) due to having negative (red) trust?

That is a very important question.

This matter is off-topic here.  Although I do think my posting the foregoing here is a salutary instruction to others who might ask for “some free merits Smiley”, I will not substantially discuss this further in this thread.  Should there be anything further to discuss, then I will create a thread in Reputation.

@nullius Yes, I crossed that line and you can see I mentioned in my response "I just corrected my comment". I did mentioned that I want to earn merit, not beg it; I think I could have clarified it by adding "with their armature posts and intention to adding value to the forum". I couldn't express myself properly in the last line; and I thought, I should remove it. But since it was referenced in some posts below, I crossed that line so that no further miscommunication happens and I take full responsibility of that particular line accepting that the wording was wrong. And, I didn't know about the archiving feature of the forum. Just the negative trust feedback disheartened me since my intention was not begging merit rather to earn it by learning and adding value to the forum (as you can see the same intention in my original comment as well). Unfortunately, the red trust in my profile seems like someone jailed me without giving me any chance to explain myself. Since I joined here, I learned a lot regarding cryptocurrency and blockchain that might needed months if I had to acquire them from elsewhere.

Regarding your question, as you can see, I could apply for the airdrop for Equitybase afterwards and I didn't get any denial/got any message regarding red trust so far.
lhtot8
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February 22, 2018, 03:44:40 AM
 #3073

This posts-from-the-past-scavenging thing is getting a bit out of control after the introduction of The System.

Not that it’s relevant, but what are you talking about?  All the posts I quoted and archived were made within about the past 36 hours.  Again, not that that’s relevant.

/offtopic
Wow, I cannot believe it when looking at your profile. You have got tons of merit points. Really amazing. However, after spending couple of minutes to check your post history, I have seen that you posted almost high-quality, constructive and helpful threads. That explains why you got those merits. Congratulations.
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February 22, 2018, 08:39:43 AM
 #3074

Lol, I see the same two idiots still trolling. I can't see what they say but they are pathetic.

thd26bct
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February 22, 2018, 09:17:58 AM
 #3075

sMerit reduction for red trust seems like a ridiculous proposed solution from my point of view - since the merit system and the trust system are separate, and bringing in some kind of reduction of sMerit formula for red trust would likely cause more problems than it solves in terms of adding complexity and possible unintended bad player gaming consequences.
Both merit and trust systems can be abused as time goes on, abusements have been demonstrated by proofs. Nevertheless, I totally agree with JayJuanGee, those two systems should operated separately because they have very different original objectives in the forum. No need to combine them into one system.
nullius
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February 22, 2018, 10:04:11 AM
 #3076

[snip untrimmed quote]

@nullius Yes, I crossed that line and you can see I mentioned in my response "I just corrected my comment". I did mentioned that I want to earn merit, not beg it; I think I could have clarified it by adding "with their armature posts and intention to adding value to the forum". I couldn't express myself properly in the last line; and I thought, I should remove it. But since it was referenced in some posts below, I crossed that line so that no further miscommunication happens and I take full responsibility of that particular line accepting that the wording was wrong. And, I didn't know about the archiving feature of the forum. Just the negative trust feedback disheartened me since my intention was not begging merit rather to earn it by learning and adding value to the forum (as you can see the same intention in my original comment as well). Unfortunately, the red trust in my profile seems like someone jailed me without giving me any chance to explain myself. Since I joined here, I learned a lot regarding cryptocurrency and blockchain that might needed months if I had to acquire them from elsewhere.

Regarding your question, as you can see, I could apply for the airdrop for Equitybase afterwards and I didn't get any denial/got any message regarding red trust so far.

I like the phrase, “I take full responsibility”, as well as your expressed desires to learn and to improve your posts.  Thus, I will take all these at face value; and I will assume that you speak in good faith.

Whereas if your priority here be truly to “increase [your] knowledge regarding the technology, concepts and culture related to [the] blockchain and cryptocurrency”, then my negative feedback should not be a problem for you.  Go ahead!  Learn!  A red tag won’t stop you from learning; and the knowledge will be beneficial to you.

I will keep an eye on your account.  It will not take much of my time to occasionally glance in on your post history and especially, your merit page.  If I see consistent evidence that you’ve been sincere in what you told me here, then eventually, I will consider changing my feedback to neutral or removing it.

Since my feedback specifically pertained to a wrong way to seek merit, one of the most important criteria will be whether you earn merit the honest way.  That is:  Whether you earn merit for posts which a reasonable person may award merit to.  I do not mean posts which I would award merit to.  Some reasonable people might award merit to posts which I would not.  I can recognize that.  No reasonable person would award merit to spam, junk one-liners, gibberish, factually incorrect information, or otherwise objectively low-quality posts.  Also, no reasonable person would award merit as a wiseacre, as charity, or for other nefarious non-reasons.

If you don’t earn merit the honest way, then my trust feedback is almost irrelevant anyway:  You’d be permanently stuck in the low ranks.0  My objective here is that, if you show yourself capable of advancing, I do not wish to hold you back or impair your future forum success.

I will not set a specific timeframe.  That could be misinterpreted as a date on which I will remove the tag; and really, the only timeframe is that I do not commit to checking on your account indefinitely.  Also, there is no need to contact me about this—actually, don’t contact me about this.  You’ve said some good words here.  Now, I’m more interested in your behaviour going forward.



My advice on where to start fulfilling your expressed desire to learn:

The Beginners & Help forum is a good place to ask beginner-level learning questions.  (Yes, I checked your post history; I did not find any posts from you there.)  Read this before posting.  Also, I strongly suggest learning to ask smart questions.

(Note that as I stated in my negative feedback, intelligent questions often do earn merit.  A beginner-level question can be intelligent.  Stupid questions are not meritorious.  Neither are lazy questions, which show you couldn’t be bothered to do some basic reading and thinking, and redundant questions, which show you didn’t look around enough to see that a hundred other people had already asked the same thing.)

And don’t just talk:  Listen!  Read!  I myself spent untold hours lurking and reading forum archives before I even created an account.1  Other people have probably asked about many of the same things which may pique your curiosity.

Another excellent starting resource is Bitcoin.ORG.  People in Beginners & Help can suggest more reading material, if you ask intelligently.

The foregoing should conclude my involvement in this discussion.  Good luck, if you deserve it.



0. I expect that as the merit system develops, an ill image will befall accounts with low rank, activity so disproportionate as to be absurd, and little or no merit.  Actually, I think this process may be in the early stages already.

1. If I had instead simply created an account and started posting daily one-liners in spam megathreads, I would now (and for some time passed) be a Legendary.  This is why we need the merit system.

/0 
  😼
“Qui mori didicit, servire dedidicit.”
nascrypto
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February 22, 2018, 11:33:23 AM
 #3077

[snip untrimmed quote]

@nullius Yes, I crossed that line and you can see I mentioned in my response "I just corrected my comment". I did mentioned that I want to earn merit, not beg it; I think I could have clarified it by adding "with their armature posts and intention to adding value to the forum". I couldn't express myself properly in the last line; and I thought, I should remove it. But since it was referenced in some posts below, I crossed that line so that no further miscommunication happens and I take full responsibility of that particular line accepting that the wording was wrong. And, I didn't know about the archiving feature of the forum. Just the negative trust feedback disheartened me since my intention was not begging merit rather to earn it by learning and adding value to the forum (as you can see the same intention in my original comment as well). Unfortunately, the red trust in my profile seems like someone jailed me without giving me any chance to explain myself. Since I joined here, I learned a lot regarding cryptocurrency and blockchain that might needed months if I had to acquire them from elsewhere.

Regarding your question, as you can see, I could apply for the airdrop for Equitybase afterwards and I didn't get any denial/got any message regarding red trust so far.

I like the phrase, “I take full responsibility”, as well as your expressed desires to learn and to improve your posts.  Thus, I will take all these at face value; and I will assume that you speak in good faith.

Whereas if your priority here be truly to “increase [your] knowledge regarding the technology, concepts and culture related to [the] blockchain and cryptocurrency”, then my negative feedback should not be a problem for you.  Go ahead!  Learn!  A red tag won’t stop you from learning; and the knowledge will be beneficial to you.

I will keep an eye on your account.  It will not take much of my time to occasionally glance in on your post history and especially, your merit page.  If I see consistent evidence that you’ve been sincere in what you told me here, then eventually, I will consider changing my feedback to neutral or removing it.

Since my feedback specifically pertained to a wrong way to seek merit, one of the most important criteria will be whether you earn merit the honest way.  That is:  Whether you earn merit for posts which a reasonable person may award merit to.  I do not mean posts which I would award merit to.  Some reasonable people might award merit to posts which I would not.  I can recognize that.  No reasonable person would award merit to spam, junk one-liners, gibberish, factually incorrect information, or otherwise objectively low-quality posts.  Also, no reasonable person would award merit as a wiseacre, as charity, or for other nefarious non-reasons.

If you don’t earn merit the honest way, then my trust feedback is almost irrelevant anyway:  You’d be permanently stuck in the low ranks.0  My objective here is that, if you show yourself capable of advancing, I do not wish to hold you back or impair your future forum success.

I will not set a specific timeframe.  That could be misinterpreted as a date on which I will remove the tag; and really, the only timeframe is that I do not commit to checking on your account indefinitely.  Also, there is no need to contact me about this—actually, don’t contact me about this.  You’ve said some good words here.  Now, I’m more interested in your behaviour going forward.



My advice on where to start fulfilling your expressed desire to learn:

The Beginners & Help forum is a good place to ask beginner-level learning questions.  (Yes, I checked your post history; I did not find any posts from you there.)  Read this before posting.  Also, I strongly suggest learning to ask smart questions.

(Note that as I stated in my negative feedback, intelligent questions often do earn merit.  A beginner-level question can be intelligent.  Stupid questions are not meritorious.  Neither are lazy questions, which show you couldn’t be bothered to do some basic reading and thinking, and redundant questions, which show you didn’t look around enough to see that a hundred other people had already asked the same thing.)

And don’t just talk:  Listen!  Read!  I myself spent untold hours lurking and reading forum archives before I even created an account.1  Other people have probably asked about many of the same things which may pique your curiosity.

Another excellent starting resource is Bitcoin.ORG.  People in Beginners & Help can suggest more reading material, if you ask intelligently.

The foregoing should conclude my involvement in this discussion.  Good luck, if you deserve it.



0. I expect that as the merit system develops, an ill image will befall accounts with low rank, activity so disproportionate as to be absurd, and little or no merit.  Actually, I think this process may be in the early stages already.

1. If I had instead simply created an account and started posting daily one-liners in spam megathreads, I would now (and for some time passed) be a Legendary.  This is why we need the merit system.

Appreciated and thanks for the links. They are really useful.
ridertiger
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Merit: 110



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February 23, 2018, 06:32:30 AM
 #3078

There seems to be a general thing in the forum, among the most generous merit givers that
if you talk about altcoins instead of bitcoin, you will not get merit.
If you use any other language than English (stated as: a language I don't speak!) in some of your posts, you won't get merit. That is just racist.
If you comment on bounty posts you will not get merit AND you are an idiot.
I think the admins should take a look at this and do something about it.
TheQuin
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Activity: 1568
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February 23, 2018, 06:43:41 AM
Merited by amishmanish (1), nullius (1)
 #3079

There seems to be a general thing in the forum, among the most generous merit givers that
if you talk about altcoins instead of bitcoin, you will not get merit.

The forum is called Bitcointalk.

If you use any other language than English (stated as: a language I don't speak!) in some of your posts, you won't get merit. That is just racist.

How are people supposed to rate a post they do not understand?

If you comment on bounty posts you will not get merit AND you are an idiot.

That is usually true.

I think the admins should take a look at this and do something about it be happy.


freebitcoin.TO WIN A  LAMBORGHINI!..

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armandoz
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Activity: 163
Merit: 10


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February 23, 2018, 06:54:05 AM
 #3080

merit is become ranking requirement is not easy but this fair to bicoin to have a good and quality post not just posting without impact.  So we need to make up or updating every descation in bitcoin that produce us a merit, in that case we become serious in posting and not become wasting time and electricity.

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