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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 139305 times)
TheQuin
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May 02, 2018, 03:15:01 PM
 #4261

Yes, obviously. Apart from people who abused the system, I think those who have increased their level in April can be counted in one hand, especially from the full member rank onwards.

It takes 4 months to for a Full Member to get the activity to get to Sr. and another 8.5 months to get to Hero so I don't find it surprising that only a few made it in the mere 3 months the system has been in place. The system was also designed to prevent the majority of spammers members ranking up. Give it a full year and see how many people that deserved to rank up haven't yet.

I do agree with your last post that if only 21k was spent then that does need to be addressed. I said a few pages back that I think there is too much work being done by too few sources.

freebitcoin.TO WIN A  LAMBORGHINI!..

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DdmrDdmr
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May 02, 2018, 04:11:59 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2018, 07:17:11 PM by DdmrDdmr
Merited by TMAN (5), kaicrypzen (1)
 #4262

What do you think about the need to decrease the merit requirement now that the airdop is almost done? Do we need it?

If I grab your data for April 2018 (nearly a full month), then 22.608 sMerits were awarded. Merit sources roughly in that period have a potential maximum of 17.750 awardable sMerit according to official stats (per 30 days).
If the current 79 Merit Sources managed to award all their sMerits during April 2018, it would mean that they alone would be behind 78,5% of sMerit awarding, and that the conventional forum users would only be behind 21,5%.

That would itself seem a problem, since merit sources would be behind most of the work. This could mean either that member are running out of sMerit, or not awarding enough having Merit Sources make up heavily to try to counterbalance this.

The truth is, we do not know if Merit Sources do manage to award all their sMerit or what percentage they manage to award, so the above scenario is only an extreme scenario.
For example, if Merit Sources managed to award 63,69%, then Merit Sources and Forum Users would each be responsible for 50% sMerit awarding each during April 2018.

Quote
How many users has ranked up this month?

In order to see who has ranked up since sMerit Kick-off, there are a couple of considerations to ponder:

-   New Ranking with no Airdrop can be measured for users created since the 24/01/2018. The Merit System has been going on for 14 weeks since then, but activity count would alone only allow new users to have reached the Member status, thus that is the maximum rank level achievable by new users.

I kind of did this exercise a couple of weeks ago, where I tracked the activity, Merit and Rank of users created during the first two weeks after sMerit Kickoff.
See  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3308505.msg34527667#msg34527667
If this data were to be update today using the same subset of user accounts, things I figure will have changed. We can do that at some point down the line if needed.

-   The rest of the users would be those that existed prior to sMerit kickoff. Unfortunately, we do not have a database snapshot of user ranks on that date to see the initial rank for all these users, so as to compare with current rank.
Trying to backtrack from current user Rank I believe is not feasible, especially due to the fact that many had a Merit Airdrop that was based both on rank and activity prior to the airdrop date (so it was variable per user and not a fixed value per rank). All in all, some users stared from scratch, whilst others has a Merit starting point. That too makes comparisons difficult.

nydiacaskey01
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May 02, 2018, 04:17:42 PM
 #4263

It's hard to get merits any tips??
Number one tip that I can give to you is don't be too lazy to use the search tab or look around for any tips on how to get merits. If you don't do that and don't even try then you don't deserve to get a single merit. Here in Meta section, just check the first 3 pages and you'll see threads that can help you.

MagicSmoker
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May 02, 2018, 04:20:10 PM
 #4264

It's hard to get merits any tips??

Yeah, don't post shit like this:

Haven't gotten anything all talks and no do

any news when will this be available on exchanges??

When will this be on exchanges?? haven't seen any announcement lately.
Left out?

Bounty is closed on april 20th haven't received my tokens

Got 25 hashgains is there value to it??

Etc. and so on...
coinlocket$
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May 02, 2018, 06:12:45 PM
 #4265

What do you think about the need to decrease the merit requirement now that the airdop is almost done? Do we need it?

I will post the exact number when the new file will be avaiable. Have they reduced sources to 79? I've missed this change!

DdmrDdmr
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May 02, 2018, 06:21:43 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2018, 07:23:36 PM by DdmrDdmr
 #4266

I will post the exact number when the new file will be avaiable. Have they reduced sources to 79? I've missed this change!

Apparently so: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats merit sources. I check these quite often, but can’t recall when this one changed specifically.

aleksus
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May 02, 2018, 07:59:13 PM
 #4267

I will post the exact number when the new file will be avaiable. Have they reduced sources to 79? I've missed this change!

Apparently so: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats merit sources. I check these quite often, but can’t recall when this one changed specifically.

So does it mean merits will be mostly consentrated in a small number of topics where these merit sources are active, that's sad and for most of the users will mean no upgrade is possible.
DdmrDdmr
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May 02, 2018, 08:37:45 PM
 #4268

So does it mean merits will be mostly consentrated in a small number of topics where these merit sources are active, that's sad and for most of the users will mean no upgrade is possible.

We really cannot really tell, since merit sources are unknown, and the proportion of sMerit given out by the sources out of their maximum is also unknown versus the proportion given out by regular meriters.

There are forum sections more favoured overall than others. That is due, in principal, to the interest those sections provide in general, with some more difficult to understand awarding taking place in bounty threads for example. Some sections, like my local board, are under a severe sMerit drought, but activity is quite low there in comparison.

Where you post obviously has it’s toll on odds, but also thread length and subject, tone, style, information, wit, novelty,  personal opinion, insights, usefulness, etc. Chances add up better the more ingredients you have to enable you to bring a decent dish to the table.

Delphinus
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May 03, 2018, 10:01:14 AM
 #4269

Can you clarify what "getting merit from review 3Ds" means?

I'm struggling to get Merit, so other sources than making posts sounds interesting. At the moment, I'm considering just following known merit sources around and commenting in the threads where they are active, but that can't be the actual idea behind it..

kaicrypzen
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May 03, 2018, 10:06:43 AM
 #4270

Can you clarify what "getting merit from review 3Ds" means?

I think what they meant is "review threads". There are a handful of threads whose original posters offer to review posts that you think deserve to get their sMerit but didn't get merited (enough).

athanz88
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May 03, 2018, 10:45:50 AM
 #4271

Can you clarify what "getting merit from review 3Ds" means?

I think what they meant is "review threads". There are a handful of threads whose original posters offer to review posts that you think deserve to get their sMerit but didn't get merited (enough).

There are many of them right now, and i suggest you to search one from the QuestionAuthority. He has a wide knowledge and good decision on some matters, so if you have a good post you might have a chance to get from merits from him.
Makkara
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May 03, 2018, 11:14:39 AM
Merited by kaicrypzen (1)
 #4272

what is really needed is some AI algorithm that gives merit automatically based on the post you write, is not science fiction. No way at the current state anyone can keep up spotting good post, beside is often up to personal interpretation if a merited post really deserve merits, this is the work for a machine, we are in the 2018  Roll Eyes

Puppa!
athanz88
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May 03, 2018, 11:55:29 AM
 #4273

what is really needed is some AI algorithm that gives merit automatically based on the post you write, is not science fiction. No way at the current state anyone can keep up spotting good post, beside is often up to personal interpretation if a merited post really deserve merits, this is the work for a machine, we are in the 2018  Roll Eyes

And what are the criteria for a meritorious post? Post length? Number or character in a post? What more? I believe all of that can be cheated easily by all the smart abuser in this forum. With this system now, abuser/alt accounts/cheater/etc can be spotted easily, and those people wont go any further if they dont step up their game to be a good member for this forum, or cheating more. Their choice.
 
Makkara
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May 03, 2018, 11:59:15 AM
 #4274

what is really needed is some AI algorithm that gives merit automatically based on the post you write, is not science fiction. No way at the current state anyone can keep up spotting good post, beside is often up to personal interpretation if a merited post really deserve merits, this is the work for a machine, we are in the 2018  Roll Eyes

And what are the criteria for a meritorious post? Post length? Number or character in a post? What more? I believe all of that can be cheated easily by all the smart abuser in this forum. With this system now, abuser/alt accounts/cheater/etc can be spotted easily, and those people wont go any further if they dont step up their game to be a good member for this forum, or cheating more. Their choice.
 

i'm talking about something a little more sophisticated here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3622331/Facebook-s-AI-reading-messages-teach-humans-communicate.html

Puppa!
kaicrypzen
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May 03, 2018, 01:00:17 PM
 #4275

I'm struggling to get Merit, so other sources than making posts sounds interesting. At the moment, I'm considering just following known merit sources around and commenting in the threads where they are active, but that can't be the actual idea behind it..

Can I ask why it's that important to you (or to anybody for that matter) to get Merit? Indeed it's needed for ranking up, yet the rank is not really indicative of anything, or at least shouldn't be ... Is it just about getting more money on signature campaigns (no offense intended)?

Samarkand
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May 03, 2018, 01:42:37 PM
Merited by TheQuin (1), kaicrypzen (1)
 #4276

what is really needed is some AI algorithm that gives merit automatically based on the post you write, is not science fiction. No way at the current state anyone can keep up spotting good post, beside is often up to personal interpretation if a merited post really deserve merits, this is the work for a machine, we are in the 2018  Roll Eyes

Theymos is probably in the final stages of finishing exactly the kind of AI algorithm
that you are talking about  Grin

Jokes apart, I think you are underestimating the difficulty of developing any kind of AI
solution. Even for tasks that are simple for humans it is incredibly hard to develop a
working AI solution.

Just imagine all the pitfalls of developing an automated way of awarding merits.

Here are just a few possible pitfalls:
-how does the algorithm deal with posts in Local boards? It surely can´t be for English posts only...
-how does the algorithm deal with posts that are of very high-quality, but are plagiarism from
other people´s posts or from other websites?
-how does the algorithm deal with posts that are beautifully crafted (think @nullius posting style), but
are completely garbage in terms of content?
...

I agree that we are indeed in 2018 and machines are able to do many marvelous things (e.g.
automatization in the production of technical devices or cars), but the respective industries had to invest
billions of $ into research to even get this far.

Delphinus
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May 03, 2018, 02:17:05 PM
Merited by kaicrypzen (1)
 #4277

I'm struggling to get Merit, so other sources than making posts sounds interesting. At the moment, I'm considering just following known merit sources around and commenting in the threads where they are active, but that can't be the actual idea behind it..

Can I ask why it's that important to you (or to anybody for that matter) to get Merit? Indeed it's needed for ranking up, yet the rank is not really indicative of anything, or at least shouldn't be ... Is it just about getting more money on signature campaigns (no offense intended)?

I wasn't aware of the "review threads" but I'll certainly look into it. Regarding the reason why it's important, there are a couple for me personally:

1. My main reason is that I want the merit system to become successful. Several of my regular threads are being overrun by scammers with fake accounts. My hope was that the merit system would resolve these issues. I'm expecting that in the longer term, we can set minimum merit requirements for threads, hide posts of people with negative merit, or something similar that would chase away spammers from BCT.
With the lack of merit being given out and the fact that newbie members can still post everywhere, the merit system does not meet my expectations. My main goal is to help improve the merit system into something that adds value.

2. I was looking forward to becoming a Sr. Member, since I was one day away before the new system got implemented (I had like 1 activity point to go). Suddenly I'm 150 merit away and I've been able to gather 2 new ones for the last months. It just "feels" unfair.

3. Merit points feel like "validation" of a post. Never getting any gets frustrating since it feels like my posts are worthless.

4. Definitely also the signature campaigns. The difference between member ranks for me equals around $1000,- per year. That is quite a lot given that I would have reached a higher status long ago with the old rules.

5. Lastly; I honestly believe that I do have the occasional post that would get "upvotes" on other platforms. Either helping people or giving free advice.
For example; I tried to help a project I'm not involved with this morning with some advice:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3379275.msg36188330#msg36188330

It's definitely not the best post ever, but I do think that these type of posts would warrant 1-2 merit on a platform where it's easy to give out.


athanz88
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May 03, 2018, 05:07:18 PM
 #4278


Haha you are making me laughing out loud man, literally. You do talk like it is easy to make an AI in this time right now. Big company like facebook still need a lot of resources to make one, and even google doesnt have one for now, and you are here suggesting  AI for a forum. You are kidding right?
Makkara
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May 03, 2018, 05:39:34 PM
Last edit: May 03, 2018, 07:54:53 PM by Makkara
 #4279


Haha you are making me laughing out loud man, literally. You do talk like it is easy to make an AI in this time right now. Big company like facebook still need a lot of resources to make one, and even google doesnt have one for now, and you are here suggesting  AI for a forum. You are kidding right?

You didn't  even know what i was talking about, if you are not competent or ignorant in something, better to avoid posting about it.  Wink


what is really needed is some AI algorithm that gives merit automatically based on the post you write, is not science fiction. No way at the current state anyone can keep up spotting good post, beside is often up to personal interpretation if a merited post really deserve merits, this is the work for a machine, we are in the 2018  Roll Eyes

Theymos is probably in the final stages of finishing exactly the kind of AI algorithm
that you are talking about  Grin


Just imagine all the pitfalls of developing an automated way of awarding merits.

Here are just a few possible pitfalls:
-how does the algorithm deal with posts in Local boards? It surely can´t be for English posts only...
-how does the algorithm deal with posts that are of very high-quality, but are plagiarism from
other people´s posts or from other websites?
-how does the algorithm deal with posts that are beautifully crafted (think @nullius posting style), but
are completely garbage in terms of content?



they are actually made to solve these problems, it's matter of training with the right data, like if you would need to teach to a child by examples to spot the cases.

Microsoft offer already some service: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/machine-learning-server/what-is-machine-learning-server
Google as well https://cloud.google.com/products/machine-learning/

Then again i'm not saying it would be easy but, after all this is the place that saw the birth of bitcoin, should be more open to ambitious projects  Grin

Puppa!
kokoska
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May 03, 2018, 06:37:59 PM
 #4280

Hello!
Moderators, you can create a table that will record the number of merit sources that generate sMerit by country in the forum?
For example, the English branch is 10 people, German - 3 people, Brazil-4 people.
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