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Author Topic: [CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers  (Read 829743 times)
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MoreBloodWine
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March 16, 2014, 09:52:31 AM
 #6341

A lot of what's hurting is too is the act that ghash has around 9Ph.


 IF ONLY it were that easy!!! Roll Eyes
Oh I know there's more to it than that but thats a good chunk of it IMO.

Edit: Here's what my sad stats look like, with 30+ blocks a day like we should be doing, I avg 0.03 a day...


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hurricandave
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March 16, 2014, 10:31:36 AM
 #6342

so thats about 6 weeks of 24/7 at that hash rate huh?
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March 16, 2014, 10:49:19 AM
 #6343

In light of those events, my goals with BTC Guild have changed to make sure that if/when BTC Guild is closed down, it's on my own terms, and it's on a high note.  It seems like no Bitcoin business to date has actually shut down without their users suffering some kind of loss.

PPS is in stark contrast to that goal, since it includes a risk of bankruptcy, and increased risk of loss if the pool's hot wallet ever to be compromised.

I fully agree with your decision.  Eligius just had to payout from the pool's NMC cold wallet after a hacker intrusion. Luckily their username=BTC wallet design protected their BTC balance.
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March 16, 2014, 02:12:15 PM
 #6344

The first thing to remember, hurricanedave, is that over the long term, PPLNS always pays better than PPS. If that isn't clear yet, keep asking questions until it is!

When BTC Guild finds a block, the Bitcoins and fees (minus 3%) get distributed evenly to the most recent 10 open shifts. Each of those shifts get 10% of that block. I'm not sure if your 11-blocks-per-shift number is accurate, but when Lady Luck doesn't have us bent over a barbed wire fence, getting 11 blocks per shift before that shift closes is a matter of course.

In fact, it's usually higher. Each shift is receiving payouts for roughly 8.5-10 hours, and at neutral luck we get just over 2 blocks per hour.

As you close out shifts during the next several hours, you'll see your earnings rise!

I trust that someone who understands this stuff better will correct anything I got wrong.

Lastly, don't judge PPLNS by current results. The last week's bad luck is epic in scope. For anyone looking at this in the future, don't judge PPLNS when we have our run hot on, either. Smiley



Brandon, please convice me of this becuase I'm not convinced of this point yet.  I've mined PPS and PPLNS for months now and I've not earned anywhere near the money using PPLNS.  It's very frustrating - almost 40 to 50% less.  So how exactly will I earn more when I'm just not seeing the payouts.  PPLNS is like: most days it's below 100% and every now and then it spikes above.   Angry

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March 16, 2014, 02:18:01 PM
 #6345

The first thing to remember, hurricanedave, is that over the long term, PPLNS always pays better than PPS. If that isn't clear yet, keep asking questions until it is!

When BTC Guild finds a block, the Bitcoins and fees (minus 3%) get distributed evenly to the most recent 10 open shifts. Each of those shifts get 10% of that block. I'm not sure if your 11-blocks-per-shift number is accurate, but when Lady Luck doesn't have us bent over a barbed wire fence, getting 11 blocks per shift before that shift closes is a matter of course.

In fact, it's usually higher. Each shift is receiving payouts for roughly 8.5-10 hours, and at neutral luck we get just over 2 blocks per hour.

As you close out shifts during the next several hours, you'll see your earnings rise!

I trust that someone who understands this stuff better will correct anything I got wrong.

Lastly, don't judge PPLNS by current results. The last week's bad luck is epic in scope. For anyone looking at this in the future, don't judge PPLNS when we have our run hot on, either. Smiley

Brandon, please convice me of this becuase I'm not convinced of this point yet.  I've mined PPS and PPLNS for months now and I've not earned anywhere near the money using PPLNS.  It's very frustrating - almost 40 to 50% less.  So how exactly will I earn more when I'm just not seeing the payouts.  PPLNS is like: most days it's below 100% and every now and then it spikes above.   Angry

Look at the average for the last month - 96%.  Up until this horrible streak, it was at 101% or higher.

M


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March 16, 2014, 02:42:31 PM
 #6346

Now that you have reduced your risk and banked a bunch of coins on PPS when the going was good any chance of reducing fees to attract more people and grow the pools hash rate?
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March 16, 2014, 02:45:51 PM
 #6347

Now that you have reduced your risk and banked a bunch of coins on PPS when the going was good any chance of reducing fees to attract more people and grow the pools hash rate?

I don't see how PPS relates to PPLNS fees?  I believe the idea behind the 3% is to compensate for stales.  I'm all for lowering it to 2% and not compensating for stales.

M

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March 16, 2014, 05:09:07 PM
 #6348

This unlucky streak won't end!

Unfortunately, since BtcGuild only commands ~20% of the network now, I think we're in for more variance going forward. I might split my miners between BtcGuild and Eligius to reduce variance.
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March 16, 2014, 05:15:03 PM
 #6349

This unlucky streak won't end!

Unfortunately, since BtcGuild only commands ~20% of the network now, I think we're in for more variance going forward. I might split my miners between BtcGuild and Eligius to reduce variance.

That's precisely what I've done. 

M

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March 16, 2014, 06:18:30 PM
 #6350

A lot of what's hurting is too is the act that ghash has around 9Ph.

Other pools being faster doesn't impact luck in any way except for orphans (smaller pools have a slightly higher chance of having blocks orphaned because larger pools are more likely to build off their own blocks in a race).  Since BTC Guild still pays for orphaned blocks, that doesn't actually matter for us.


Brandon, please convice me of this becuase I'm not convinced of this point yet.  I've mined PPS and PPLNS for months now and I've not earned anywhere near the money using PPLNS.  It's very frustrating - almost 40 to 50% less.  So how exactly will I earn more when I'm just not seeing the payouts.  PPLNS is like: most days it's below 100% and every now and then it spikes above.   Angry

For PPS to out-pay PPLNS, the luck has to be ~95% or less.  Up until this last 2 weeks, the 3-month luck was over 102%.  As a matter of fact, until this last 2 week period, BTC Guild's 3 month luck for PPLNS was paying better than what you'd get under a 0% fee PPS.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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March 16, 2014, 07:03:53 PM
 #6351

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

You don't need a Namecoin wallet to earn them, they automatically accrue regardless.  You can set the wallet to an exchange (generally BTC-e) and trade them for BTC there.  I'm not planning on any auto conversion of NMC on BTC Guild.

I hve been mining btcguild for over a month with 230gh... I had no idea there is any namecoin reward or am I reading this wrong?

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March 16, 2014, 07:06:47 PM
 #6352

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

You don't need a Namecoin wallet to earn them, they automatically accrue regardless.  You can set the wallet to an exchange (generally BTC-e) and trade them for BTC there.  I'm not planning on any auto conversion of NMC on BTC Guild.

I hve been mining btcguild for over a month with 230gh... I had no idea there is any namecoin reward or am I reading this wrong?


Go to your Dashboard, top left is BTC earnings and the top right is NMC

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March 16, 2014, 07:08:30 PM
 #6353

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

You don't need a Namecoin wallet to earn them, they automatically accrue regardless.  You can set the wallet to an exchange (generally BTC-e) and trade them for BTC there.  I'm not planning on any auto conversion of NMC on BTC Guild.

I hve been mining btcguild for over a month with 230gh... I had no idea there is any namecoin reward or am I reading this wrong?


Go to your Dashboard, top left is BTC earnings and the top right is NMC

You may need to go to Settings, then Dashboard Settings, enable Show Namecoin Summary.
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March 16, 2014, 07:14:49 PM
 #6354

Eleuthria,

I have never run PPS so it's a non event for me but it seems insane to me to have 6,200THs and have to lose sleep over getting wiped out because of bad luck.

The luck is what it is.  I have been mining since late last year and have never solved a block so bad luck is a relative term.  If I was solo my earnings would be 0.00BTC

Smiley



That's the thing that's hard for some people to realize.  It's one of the reasons when BTC Guild became a 51% threat I tried to get people off PPS by increasing the fees.  The larger the pool, the faster PPS makes you lose money, and the faster it gains money.  It doesn't decrease the highs and the lows, it simply makes them alternate more frequently.  It becomes a roller coaster, and the amount of stress it puts on you is immeasurable.  BTC Guild, when it was pure PPS, had days where I lost over 500 BTC.  It had days where I gained over 500 BTC.  In the long run, it made a profit, but the human mind is designed to place more emphasis on negative events/emotions than positive ones, and every time it was on a losing streak it was nothing but stress over "something must be wrong" even though nothing had changed internally between the two spikes of good/bad luck.

Keeping PPS is something I've done because it made sense.  It was more profitable for me.  But these days, I'm not concerned with maximum profit but instead trying to minimize risk.  My personal goal with BTC Guild has changed in the light of the non-stop "hacks" that major Bitcoin businesses claim to have happened, putting them out of business and screwing over their users.  While I personally believe most of those "hacks" were not hacks at all, it doesn't change the fact that the people who paid for it in the end were users, not the owners, who made off with lots of profit over the years.  In light of those events, my goals with BTC Guild have changed to make sure that if/when BTC Guild is closed down, it's on my own terms, and it's on a high note.  It seems like no Bitcoin business to date has actually shut down without their users suffering some kind of loss.

PPS is in stark contrast to that goal, since it includes a risk of bankruptcy, and increased risk of loss if the pool's hot wallet ever to be compromised.

PPS was great in the early days of bitcoin and even still it is a good option however there's just too much risk attached to it. Especially with hot wallet being at risk. I believe that is the reason why the new bitcoin pool.. DirectPool decided to only do pplns..

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March 16, 2014, 07:24:56 PM
 #6355

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

You don't need a Namecoin wallet to earn them, they automatically accrue regardless.  You can set the wallet to an exchange (generally BTC-e) and trade them for BTC there.  I'm not planning on any auto conversion of NMC on BTC Guild.

I hve been mining btcguild for over a month with 230gh... I had no idea there is any namecoin reward or am I reading this wrong?


As stated above, NMC is hidden by default since the majority of users don't care about it.  You can enable it on the Settings page.  It doesn't include the detail that BTC does, basically just a balance counter and a CSV export in the settings page for your payouts.

Unlike a few other pools, BTC Guild doesn't keep the NMC if you had it hidden or didn't include a wallet.  Your account, as long as it was on PPLNS, was generating NMC the entire time and has accumulated a balance.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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March 16, 2014, 07:40:48 PM
 #6356

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

You don't need a Namecoin wallet to earn them, they automatically accrue regardless.  You can set the wallet to an exchange (generally BTC-e) and trade them for BTC there.  I'm not planning on any auto conversion of NMC on BTC Guild.

I hve been mining btcguild for over a month with 230gh... I had no idea there is any namecoin reward or am I reading this wrong?


As stated above, NMC is hidden by default since the majority of users don't care about it.  You can enable it on the Settings page.  It doesn't include the detail that BTC does, basically just a balance counter and a CSV export in the settings page for your payouts.

Unlike a few other pools, BTC Guild doesn't keep the NMC if you had it hidden or didn't include a wallet.  Your account, as long as it was on PPLNS, was generating NMC the entire time and has accumulated a balance.

I guess you didn't like my suggestion about autoconverting NMC to BTC?

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March 16, 2014, 09:25:10 PM
 #6357

For PPS to out-pay PPLNS, the luck has to be ~95% or less.  Up until this last 2 weeks, the 3-month luck was over 102%.  As a matter of fact, until this last 2 week period, BTC Guild's 3 month luck for PPLNS was paying better than what you'd get under a 0% fee PPS.

Which it has been doing.  I switched to PPS a few days ago because the pool's luck was in the gutter.  Checked today to see that you've now removed that, kind of disappointed since that would have covered my ass from the ABYSMAL unlucky streak we seem to be in.
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March 16, 2014, 09:36:14 PM
 #6358

I understand both the miners and eleuthrias points on this.

Eleuthria: Doesnt want to keep hemoraging money due to really bad luck
Miners: Most will likely leave the pool now for a PPS enabled one.

While I feel for both the miners and Eleuthria here, one thing we all have to remember is even if we bitch til were blue in the face. Eleuthria will ultimtely do what he feel is right / what he wants to, after all this is his pool. So at this point all we as miners can do is try to make suggestions for maybe a modified PPS method or just forget about it.

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March 16, 2014, 09:52:29 PM
 #6359

I understand both the miners and eleuthrias points on this.

Eleuthria: Doesnt want to keep hemoraging money due to really bad luck
Miners: Most will likely leave the pool now for a PPS enabled one.

While I feel for both the miners and Eleuthria here, one thing we all have to remember is even if we bitch til were blue in the face. Eleuthria will ultimtely do what he feel is right / what he wants to, after all this is his pool. So at this point all we as miners can do is try to make suggestions for maybe a modified PPS method or just forget about it.

You do know there were 2 other major pools that provided PPS payment
1) 50BTC - scammed/hacked their way to bankruptcy and lost user's money off their hot wallet.  Their PPS rate was only 3%
2) EMC - has PPS at 5%, but good luck with the reliability there

There is a reason people choose to stay with BTCGuild.  The good interface, the quality of the pool, and best of all the pool OP has proven to be a honest supporter of BTC above and beyond what would make him the biggest bucks.  I'm not saying Eleuthria is a saint, but in a world were malfeasance runs rampant Eleuthria has been one of the brighter stars in the BTC community.

People are welcome to leave the pool looking for greener grass in other PPS lands - most with common sense will probably end up back here after a month.

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March 16, 2014, 09:59:00 PM
 #6360

     I would rather be on PPS because of my very low hash rate. BUT having stated that. I will STAY on the BTC Guild with PPLNS. PERIOD.
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