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Author Topic: [CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers  (Read 828517 times)
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eleuthria
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March 15, 2014, 11:39:15 PM
 #6321

Eleuthria,

I have never run PPS so it's a non event for me but it seems insane to me to have 6,200THs and have to lose sleep over getting wiped out because of bad luck.

The luck is what it is.  I have been mining since late last year and have never solved a block so bad luck is a relative term.  If I was solo my earnings would be 0.00BTC

Smiley



That's the thing that's hard for some people to realize.  It's one of the reasons when BTC Guild became a 51% threat I tried to get people off PPS by increasing the fees.  The larger the pool, the faster PPS makes you lose money, and the faster it gains money.  It doesn't decrease the highs and the lows, it simply makes them alternate more frequently.  It becomes a roller coaster, and the amount of stress it puts on you is immeasurable.  BTC Guild, when it was pure PPS, had days where I lost over 500 BTC.  It had days where I gained over 500 BTC.  In the long run, it made a profit, but the human mind is designed to place more emphasis on negative events/emotions than positive ones, and every time it was on a losing streak it was nothing but stress over "something must be wrong" even though nothing had changed internally between the two spikes of good/bad luck.

Keeping PPS is something I've done because it made sense.  It was more profitable for me.  But these days, I'm not concerned with maximum profit but instead trying to minimize risk.  My personal goal with BTC Guild has changed in the light of the non-stop "hacks" that major Bitcoin businesses claim to have happened, putting them out of business and screwing over their users.  While I personally believe most of those "hacks" were not hacks at all, it doesn't change the fact that the people who paid for it in the end were users, not the owners, who made off with lots of profit over the years.  In light of those events, my goals with BTC Guild have changed to make sure that if/when BTC Guild is closed down, it's on my own terms, and it's on a high note.  It seems like no Bitcoin business to date has actually shut down without their users suffering some kind of loss.

PPS is in stark contrast to that goal, since it includes a risk of bankruptcy, and increased risk of loss if the pool's hot wallet ever to be compromised.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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xZork
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March 15, 2014, 11:39:32 PM
 #6322

Sucks I just started mining a couple days ago, went with you and now I'm looking for another pool because I just can't mine without a steady pay. Hope everything works out.

This has happened before and it always bounces back.

hurricandave
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March 15, 2014, 11:40:34 PM
 #6323

   I see, ever since you removed PPS from the Leader board Stats Page, its been kinda impossible to see what the earning comparison was. ie. PPS at 35% of total pool vs. another day where it runs at 48%. Maybe a sort of parabolic curve could be put together where a sustained run of bad pool luck could hedge down the PPS rate to help reduce the overall loss. I stick with PPS for the day to day consistency, I wouldn't mind if the losses needed to be spread out to protect the pool.
BrandonMcPherson
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March 16, 2014, 12:46:53 AM
 #6324

FWIW, I think this is a good move for a number of reasons, not least of which is the streamlined marketing message the lack of a high-fee PPS choice provides.

On the off-chance there is pushback, it will be a non-issue with days or a couple of weeks.
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March 16, 2014, 01:04:15 AM
 #6325

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?
eleuthria
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March 16, 2014, 01:39:03 AM
 #6326

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

You don't need a Namecoin wallet to earn them, they automatically accrue regardless.  You can set the wallet to an exchange (generally BTC-e) and trade them for BTC there.  I'm not planning on any auto conversion of NMC on BTC Guild.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
hurricandave
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March 16, 2014, 02:00:29 AM
 #6327

   Well, with this shift at eliminating PPS, maybe when you update the support page at the website you could put in a no-nonsense guide to "Best Practices" with your wallet and a couple more direct links to say the exchanges like BTC-e or Coinbase. I have already come across poser sites that try to steal from people by emulating what they thought was the right site they were looking for. ie. the fake Bitmain site taking fake orders for real money from people who thought they were buying Antminer S1's. Bitmain is still dealing with irrate customers that placed orders with the thieves.
mdude77
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March 16, 2014, 02:17:55 AM
 #6328

   Well, with this shift at eliminating PPS, maybe when you update the support page at the website you could put in a no-nonsense guide to "Best Practices" with your wallet and a couple more direct links to say the exchanges like BTC-e or Coinbase. I have already come across poser sites that try to steal from people by emulating what they thought was the right site they were looking for. ie. the fake Bitmain site taking fake orders for real money from people who thought they were buying Antminer S1's. Bitmain is still dealing with irrate customers that placed orders with the thieves.

While that is an excellent idea, you will find that NMC difficulty is almost as high as BTC difficulty.  That means your NMC earnings per qty will be about the same as your BTC.  The thing is, NMC is worth about 0.5% of BTC.  In other words, yes, you'll be able to exchange them... but you've got plenty of time to figure out where when and how. 

M

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eleuthria
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March 16, 2014, 02:21:22 AM
 #6329

   Well, with this shift at eliminating PPS, maybe when you update the support page at the website you could put in a no-nonsense guide to "Best Practices" with your wallet and a couple more direct links to say the exchanges like BTC-e or Coinbase. I have already come across poser sites that try to steal from people by emulating what they thought was the right site they were looking for. ie. the fake Bitmain site taking fake orders for real money from people who thought they were buying Antminer S1's. Bitmain is still dealing with irrate customers that placed orders with the thieves.

I'm planning a few overhauls to the support sections in the next few days, to provide slightly more information about aspects other than strictly mining.  I did update the How Am I Paid section to reflect the removal of PPS, and added a section that explains the "charge up / wind down" phases of PPLNS to help people understand why they don't make much per block when they first start, and why they keep getting paid after turning off.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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hurricandave
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March 16, 2014, 02:26:37 AM
 #6330

Umm, just to ask, when I was using the PPS method, a portion of my hash work was probably still contributing to the pool generating namecoin, even though I was getting paid a flat rate per share in BTC?
eleuthria
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March 16, 2014, 02:49:14 AM
 #6331

Umm, just to ask, when I was using the PPS method, a portion of my hash work was probably still contributing to the pool generating namecoin, even though I was getting paid a flat rate per share in BTC?

Correct, sort of.  Merged mining doesn't siphon off part of your hash rate for NMC.  Merged mining has *0* impact on how much hash you're pushing towards Bitcoin.  The pool was always merged mining whether you were PPLNS or PPS.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
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iglasses
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March 16, 2014, 03:18:58 AM
 #6332

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

Dave I'm not sure how much you are throwing but I'm close to 1THs and I am earning about .15 NMC per day (.50c) so it isn't something you need to be *too* worried about.

I only have a signature because I'm allowed.
hurricandave
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March 16, 2014, 04:00:35 AM
 #6333

O.k. so since I am now on the PPLNS method, do I need to set up a Namecoin wallet ASAP? I have very little hash rate, so it could be a long while before I would even be able to sniff at planning a payout. and since ScryptGuild has brought auto-convert to BTC, will you consider making that possible between Namecoin on BTCGuild?

Dave I'm not sure how much you are throwing but I'm close to 1THs and I am earning about .15 NMC per day (.50c) so it isn't something you need to be *too* worried about.
  Just was unsure if I needed a wallet address to activate the Namecoin account? Not sure if I worded that right. I had a BTC wallet address already when I created my user account. Didn't want to find out down the road that since I did not have a Namecoin wallet address "Set" in the account field that the Namecoin earnings were discarded because the account was incomplete.
BrandonMcPherson
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March 16, 2014, 04:58:18 AM
 #6334

Just was unsure if I needed a wallet address to activate the Namecoin account? Not sure if I worded that right. I had a BTC wallet address already when I created my user account. Didn't want to find out down the road that since I did not have a Namecoin wallet address "Set" in the account field that the Namecoin earnings were discarded because the account was incomplete.

It just accumulates until you give it a Namecoin wallet address and designate an automatic payout level. Personally, I set up an account at BTC-E and had it sent directly there. I then sold it for BTC and withdrew it.
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March 16, 2014, 05:31:23 AM
 #6335

I have mine sent over to Bter. 
You are right it is a good way to do it.


Just was unsure if I needed a wallet address to activate the Namecoin account? Not sure if I worded that right. I had a BTC wallet address already when I created my user account. Didn't want to find out down the road that since I did not have a Namecoin wallet address "Set" in the account field that the Namecoin earnings were discarded because the account was incomplete.

It just accumulates until you give it a Namecoin wallet address and designate an automatic payout level. Personally, I set up an account at BTC-E and had it sent directly there. I then sold it for BTC and withdrew it.

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March 16, 2014, 07:07:43 AM
 #6336

   So now I am trying to figure out how the PPLNS charts work. Maybe this isn't a fair comparison but it looks like a shift needs to achieve 11 blocks before it closes to equal what PPS "was" paying per share? Good Lord, thats alot!
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March 16, 2014, 09:06:23 AM
 #6337

The first thing to remember, hurricanedave, is that over the long term, PPLNS always pays better than PPS. If that isn't clear yet, keep asking questions until it is!

When BTC Guild finds a block, the Bitcoins and fees (minus 3%) get distributed evenly to the most recent 10 open shifts. Each of those shifts get 10% of that block. I'm not sure if your 11-blocks-per-shift number is accurate, but when Lady Luck doesn't have us bent over a barbed wire fence, getting 11 blocks per shift before that shift closes is a matter of course.

In fact, it's usually higher. Each shift is receiving payouts for roughly 8.5-10 hours, and at neutral luck we get just over 2 blocks per hour.

As you close out shifts during the next several hours, you'll see your earnings rise!

I trust that someone who understands this stuff better will correct anything I got wrong.

Lastly, don't judge PPLNS by current results. The last week's bad luck is epic in scope. For anyone looking at this in the future, don't judge PPLNS when we have our run hot on, either. Smiley

hurricandave
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March 16, 2014, 09:18:43 AM
 #6338

I have FAITH in the long term results, but am trying to find my quick look reference points that give me ball park baseline comparison to what I have been using.
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March 16, 2014, 09:33:15 AM
 #6339

A lot of what's hurting is too is the act that ghash has around 9Ph.

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hurricandave
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March 16, 2014, 09:42:29 AM
 #6340

A lot of what's hurting is too is the act that ghash has around 9Ph.


 IF ONLY it were that easy!!! Roll Eyes
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