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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1256101 times)
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July 09, 2014, 07:31:02 AM
Last edit: July 09, 2014, 07:57:13 AM by Collider
 #3941

How does 55nm chip cost compare to 28nm?

My understanding was that wafer cost would be cheaper, but you obviously have to use more area per GH. (Is it therefore around the same price per GH?)

Wouldn´t packaging costs be higher when you have more chips to package (or is this a very small difference)?

PCB design would probably be easier as you could go with very small heatsinks etc.


At the end of the day, Bitfury is probably already very limited by the 55nm process, as he probably has most of the optimisation done by now (in his 2nd ASIC generation).
On the other hand Bitfury has secured a $20m funding round, and some of that will most likely be used for NRE of his next generation chips.
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July 09, 2014, 07:52:57 AM
 #3942

this SP30 is a joke !At this price it would be good if it's delivered right now,but when this sp30 comes out in SEPTEMBER it will be useless at this price !


Yea, I want to support Spondoolie and the community and keep myself in the game, but at that current price with a $300 shipping charge the most I could ever make would maybe be $2500-$3200. So, for something that cost me $5395 and only get the most $3200 out of it doesn't seem like a good investment. And I'm working with the current numbers, the September numbers would even be worse. I'm trying to keep myself in the game, and I'd really hate to buy a few Antminer S3's, but their so damn cheap it is hard to say no. I'd rather use a Spondoolie product for good support and a quality product but maybe this go around I'll just stick to buying bitcoin out right from now on and not have to worry about hardware. Apparently it seems everyone in the world is putting up their own data center these days. In my opinion, the main problem and concern we ALL should be worried about is power.

Opentoe, please do me the favor of replying to my question with your (approximate) percentage gains from your calculations. Just curious.

Regards,

~Blaise

Obviously I used an online calculator and it came to about %66. I used the Tradeblock site, which isn't set in stone with the output numbers, but I would definitely say they are a good approximate. Here is what I input for one SP30 starting in September.
https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/a45142e2e9
Maximum profit only indicates $3630, and yea, I was high with the difficulty increase cause I'd rather have worse case numbers to make a decision on. I think if I spend over $5k on a mining rig and then have to spend $300/month to co-locate I'd want a better reward than $3k-$4k. For 6TH/s in September I think $5395 is too much right now, that's all. I'm hoping all the numbers are correct. The reason I kept the diff at 20 is because at that time there will probably be a slew of KNC Neptunes online, thousands of Antminer S3's and, another one called Rockminer?, and then of course Spondoolie's. That's a huge dent onto the network, and if you adjust that difficulty setting on that page it does change your max profit considerably. The lowest change in 4 months has been %10.66.

Jun 29 2014   16,818,461,371   24.93%   120,391,236 GH/s
Jun 18 2014   13,462,580,115   14.51%   96,368,902 GH/s
Jun 05 2014   11,756,551,917   12.44%   84,156,677 GH/s
May 24 2014   10,455,720,138   18.10%   74,844,960 GH/s
May 12 2014   8,853,416,309   10.66%   63,375,223 GH/s
Apr 29 2014   8,000,872,136   14.64%   57,272,474 GH/s
Apr 17 2014   6,978,842,650   14.04%   49,956,502 GH/s
Apr 05 2014   6,119,726,089   22.23%   43,806,706 GH/s

I've never been a risky person, so I hesitate, and sometimes I lose out. The best thing I ever did was buy a KNC Saturn and then bought 4 upgrade modules. That little guy is still chugging along. I think if my house had more electrical resources and didn't have to worry about cooling I'd have mining rigs all over the place. It is addicting.


er difficulty increase of 20% per month..no way 40% imho is too low (sorry how I see it sure hope you are correct)

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July 09, 2014, 08:00:13 AM
 #3943

It seems that BitFury started massive deployment of their LightFury script ASIC: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty
They completed deployment of their 10MW DC in Georgia in 4 weeks, and they probably allocated some percentage of it for deployment of their script ASIC.

Nasty surprise to KNC and Titan buyers. It will get much worse.

It would be very helpful for litecoin price Smiley

@yoyoo
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July 09, 2014, 08:10:52 AM
 #3944

It seems that BitFury started massive deployment of their LightFury script ASIC: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty
They completed deployment of their 10MW DC in Georgia in 4 weeks, and they probably allocated some percentage of it for deployment of their script ASIC.

Nasty surprise to KNC and Titan buyers. It will get much worse.

It would be very helpful for litecoin price Smiley

In what direction ?   Cheesy

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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July 09, 2014, 08:19:21 AM
 #3945

It seems that BitFury started massive deployment of their LightFury script ASIC: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty
They completed deployment of their 10MW DC in Georgia in 4 weeks, and they probably allocated some percentage of it for deployment of their script ASIC.

Nasty surprise to KNC and Titan buyers. It will get much worse.

It would be very helpful for litecoin price Smiley

In what direction ?   Cheesy

Upwards ) litecoin price crashed because 1) profits from running Zeus and so on for some time (not now) was higher than profits from running sp10/bitmain s2; 2) it was very little influx of new instock Zeuses so on (hashrate growth of Litecoin was slightly bigger than in Bitcoin with price per MH dropping a lot)

To create new bubble one should 1) mine for 20-30% percent on his own (like Avalon in Feb-Mar13 or Bitfury in Sept-Nov13) or run enourmous marketing campaign and collect preorders from the whole market --> ship at once like BFL in Oct-Nov13

PS. I think for KNC and its customers in litecoin it would be everything ok because they would be able to pull ltc price where they need it, with the help of Bitfury )

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July 09, 2014, 08:19:34 AM
 #3946


It would be very helpful for litecoin price Smiley

In what direction ?   Cheesy
There seems to be the misconception that a higher difficulty forces a higher price.
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July 09, 2014, 08:23:12 AM
 #3947


It would be very helpful for litecoin price Smiley

In what direction ?   Cheesy
There seems to be the misconception that a higher difficulty forces a higher price.

Not like that: the higher hashrate GROWTH RATE - the higher price (if we are  not on the top of the bubble - now we are not )

The best indicator is the bigger capital invested in miners - the higher price of btc. BUT it is not so easy to calculate that capital to explain here in a few words Wink

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July 09, 2014, 08:23:34 AM
 #3948

How does 55nm chip cost compare to 28nm?

My understanding was that wafer cost would be cheaper, but you obviously have to use more area per GH. (Is it therefore around the same price per GH?)

Wouldn´t packaging costs be higher when you have more chips to package (or is this a very small difference)?

PCB design would probably be easier as you could go with very small heatsinks etc.


At the end of the day, Bitfury is probably already very limited by the 55nm process, as he probably has most of the optimisation done by now (in his 2nd ASIC generation).
On the other hand Bitfury has secured a $20m funding round, and some of that will most likely be used for NRE of his next generation chips.

I'll answer your basic question and then elaborate a bit.

If you compare the same design:
28 vs 55 nm wafer cost ratio is about 2:1
Area ratio is (55/28)^2=3.9
Speed ratio is about 1.5
Total $/GHs ratio is 3.9*1.5/2=2.9
Totally in terms of $/GHs 28 nm chip should be about 3x cheaper than 55 nm

As it is, you don't compare the same system design. BitFury design doesn't use DC2DC.
They're using a "string approach", similar to Christmas lights. The ASICs are constantly pulling 2 Watt, even when doing nothing.

We've analyzed this approach and decided to keep using DC2DC in our 2nd and 3rd gen systems, despite the cost and supply chain challenges.
The reason is that in overall $/GHs we're getting better results.

BitFury isn't sitting idle. They scrapped a 28 big ASIC effort due to thermals challenges (unconfirmed)
They still didn't TO their custom 40 ASIC (the ASIC is confirmed, the TO status is unconfirmed)
And of course, they're working on advance nodes as well for 2015 (confirmed).

Interesting times ahead.

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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July 09, 2014, 12:02:29 PM
 #3949


Not like that: the higher hashrate GROWTH RATE - the higher price (if we are  not on the top of the bubble - now we are not )

The best indicator is the bigger capital invested in miners - the higher price of btc. BUT it is not so easy to calculate that capital to explain here in a few words Wink
No, this is exactly the wrong cause and consequence.

It is in fact the other way around:
A higher price leads to a higher hashrate increase (and therefore a higher overall hashrate).

In fact, ltc has a price decrease even though the hashrate increases, see this 6-month chart:
http://www.ltc-charts.com/period-charts.php?period=6-months&resolution=day&pair=ltc-usd&market=btc-e

The hashrate increase is primarily due to the relatively new introduction of ltc mining asics.
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July 09, 2014, 01:05:56 PM
Last edit: July 09, 2014, 01:19:34 PM by horcoff
 #3950

Quote
A higher price leads to a higher hashrate increase (and therefore a higher overall hashrate).

It is true and was true for LTC, not BTC. My conclusion was for BTC mostly

And I think leading patterns of LTC hashrate for price will be true soon after massive ASICs in LTC.

PS. in fact price of LTC compensated massive increase in GPU active at one time point (it was twice) and stimulated more GPU in. The matter is You do not analyse mining profit for btc/ltc FOR THE WHOLE HISTORY - then You cannot see where bubbles of btc/ltc is. When You operate the last 6 mo -  I would tell You we went from very high mining profits to slightly under average. Even in this circumstance when 19-day-rate-of-change of 19 day avg of hashrate grew - then price grew also but not for the same value, just trading signal. And when growth rate became lower - price went down )

PS2. I have all history of btc/ltc price, hashrate, all miners at all timepoints, daily figures of capital active in btc/ltc, correlation fo btc/ltc hasrate growth to btc/ltc price as well as other figures in .xlsx daily and have been analysing it more than half a year now.

PS3. Hashrate is almost always up, price not. But I am not talking about hashrate, but about difference in hashrate rate of change.

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July 09, 2014, 01:32:57 PM
 #3951

Quote
difference in hashrate rate of change
That makes literally no gramatical sense.

Let me rephrase, hashrate depends on the bitcoin price and hashrate will change according to the bitcoin price once the constant state of "mining income = power cost + small profit" is reached.
Until this state, hashrate will increase fairly constantly, with very small dependancy on btc price.
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July 09, 2014, 01:34:06 PM
 #3952

Quote
difference in hashrate rate of change
That makes literally no gramatical sense.

Let me rephrase, hashrate depends on the bitcoin price and hashrate will change according to the bitcoin price once the constant state of "mining income = power cost + small profit" is reached.
Until this state, hashrate will increase fairly constantly, with very small dependancy on btc price.

 Grin

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July 09, 2014, 01:44:00 PM
 #3953

Quote
difference in hashrate rate of change
That makes literally no gramatical sense.

Let me rephrase, hashrate depends on the bitcoin price and hashrate will change according to the bitcoin price once the constant state of "mining income = power cost + small profit" is reached.
Until this state, hashrate will increase fairly constantly, with very small dependancy on btc price.

Just the OPPOSITE...Makes a VERY GOOD sence...to a day trader since 1997 like me... Grin

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July 09, 2014, 01:51:42 PM
 #3954

Please, what is "the opposite... sense"?

Grammar is there for a reason and should be followed when communicating in written form only, as other information than the written one is not available.

Are you agreeing with my (previous) proposition?

Unfortunately I cannot tell by your answer.
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July 09, 2014, 03:33:39 PM
 #3955

Zvi.. setting up my SP10s today and one is giving this error: Pool data successfully saved but failed to restart miner, please try again in 1 minute.

it won't start cgminer

help please?
scrap that factory reset did it
 

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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July 09, 2014, 04:28:55 PM
 #3956

Zvi.. setting up my SP10s today and one is giving this error: Pool data successfully saved but failed to restart miner, please try again in 1 minute.

it won't start cgminer

help please?
scrap that factory reset did it
 

Or you could just restart the MinerGate.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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July 09, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
 #3957

Hey Spondoolies -

I know this is a bit of a tricky question, but things are getting pretty hot over there these days.  Is there any chance of getting an early shipment going?  What are the chances Hamas is going to blow the fuck out of my $100,000 investment?  I sure hope bombs flying overhead doesn't slow down production much.

Can you please tell us: 1) what is the typical range of a Hamas missile?  2) max range?  3) How far is Spondoolies from the nearest Palestinian rocket launching site?  If you don't have all the parts in hand, do you think some of the shipping will be delayed due to need for diverting shipping resources over to the hot war?  Has Spondoolies ever considered setting up their next generation in a place somewhat further from a war zone - say Canada for example.

I'd sure like to know the answers to these question if you get a minute or two to compose them. 




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July 09, 2014, 04:56:39 PM
 #3958

bah gettin the same again;


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July 09, 2014, 04:59:19 PM
Last edit: July 09, 2014, 05:28:07 PM by Collider
 #3959

@RawDog
This is definately the wrong forum to discuss missile countermeasures.

Units will ship once they are ready.

3) Please understand that certain individuals launching more or less sophisticated rockets do not necessarily declare their "launch sites",
    and most of the time specific launch sites do not exist.

Spondoolies headquarters is around 25km from the Gaza strip afaik.
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July 09, 2014, 05:34:44 PM
 #3960

@RawDog
This is definately the wrong forum to discuss missile countermeasures.

Units will ship once they are ready.

3) Please understand that certain individuals launching more or less sophisticated rockets do not necessarily declare their "launch sites",
    and most of the time specific launch sites do not exist.

Spondoolies headquarters is around 25km from the Gaza strip afaik.

Wow.  Not that hard to make a missile go 25 clicks.  How dumb are those guys in Gaza?  I think most 6th graders having a bit of advanced experience with Estes rockets are ready to move up to the next level and achieve 25km.  I sure hope spondoolies is taking appropriate cover.  

This is the right forum to discuss whether or not those fuckers are going to blow up my mining equipment.  Can't Net-10-yahoo just send in some badass hellfire missiles to quite that shit going on there?  Seems like they would be able to get those people sorted out in just a few days.

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