[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[buy4crypto]

2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move

That's a bullshit definition of a community decision.  It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team.  The other exchanges had little choice but to follow.  The community had zero choice.

  This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.  

Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?

Um, you don't mine this coin. lol

He is just talking to talk, I dont even think he knows what a VeriCoin is, he is just mad as hell though!

[smoothie]

If you think about it, doesn't a coin that protects its community sound good to you?

Over bitcoin which was so disorganized it had to let the large thefts happen? Something to think about, I trust VRC

Maybe this has a positive outcome and the media picks this up?

It would be sick if this was a good thing and not a bad thing in the end as it will surely be publicized in every crypto magazine and news article?

Something to think about. Barring a horrible outcome to this wallet fix and rollback. Could the media push and outcome cause more demand? I really think so. I have faith enough smart people are out there it won't be dumped for a issue specific to an exchange. not a individual coin, VeriCoin just happens to be the target of the attack. You only attack a good coin where you can get your money out because it has a strong demand to soak up supply. This is why BTC / LTC / VRC may have been the targets on Mintpal.

I've thought about it...so what happens when the next big hack or scam concerning VRC happens?

Roll back? Double standard and not roll back?

[chunkyjunkie]

2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move

That's a bullshit definition of a community decision.  It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team.  The other exchanges had little choice but to follow.  The community had zero choice.

  This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.  

Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?

LOl, just LOL... you can't make up your lack of understanding...

[nvminer]

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

Question is not whether devs do it or not.
Question is CAN THEY DO IT?
And the answer is obviously YES, for every single cryptocurrency, IF they get backed by the majority of their miners.
So, all the crypto community will have to deal with this reality.
You should all help to get the right spin in terms of PR.

Always, they can do it, as long as they make ppl support their new fork.
The question is, DO THEY DO IT OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE IN TO THE AUTHORITY OR THEY OBEY THEIR INITIAL AIM FOR A CRYPTOCURRENCY: NOT REGULATED BY AUTHORITIES.
(don't want to use caps, but obviously you don't get my insight)

If they are regulated by authorities, what is the difference between it and centralized banks?

p.s. til now, my questions are not answered.

Not a single developer will accept to face jail for not attending a legal order. Just face the truth.
The whole world now knows for sure that it is technically possible for EVERY SINGLE CRYPTOCURRENCY, including BTC.
So, crypto will be better served by getting the right PR spin on this story. Simple as that.

Really?
Will Bitcoin do this? I highly doubt, because its destiny is not controlled by two or three persons (and from the same country), and that is why Bitcoin can hold its value.
Is the Bitcoin sold recently by government got by hard fork and rolling back? No.

think about answers to my questions and then answer me

[FUD_master]

I wouldn't be surprised if this gets the attention of mainstream media, possibly giving positive attention to cryptos in general.

[Whatzhub]

I've just caught up with the forum threads and not sure that an average person/investor would have the time to go through all the arguments of the hard fork posted here.

If in any case, they would be reading up the official statements from the Vericoin Developers here:
http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/Statement.pdf

And the official statements from the Mintpal Exchange here:
https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17

What an average person would probably pick up from this would be:
1. Mintpal's security has been breached and hacked, hence less trust & extra caution to use them in the future
2. Vericoin's developers have stepped up to help protect the coin as well as it's community and investors
3. Rules are made to be broken, and it's up to whether you would prefer Batman (one who breaks rules and steps up to do the right thing) or the Cold Ruthless Law that states that there is nothing that can be done against a theft as it is against all principles of how a crypto should be.

Common sense with the right morals > Cold-hard principles/rules

Just my sharing.

[tigerwood0432]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

[InvestorPerson]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

try a bigger font! also colours

[drkman]

Hey smoothie!  you lost!  now go back to suking a dick.  

[RW-Stott]

Guys it is suicide to roll back because of Mintpal.  Mintpal should be made to pay for the losses.  No exchange should have the ability to force a hardfork in a coin because of their failure.  This will ruin the credibility of Vericoin purely to save Mintpal.  Mintpal is a vicious cancer to the community and this just proves it.

This.

If this rollback is done to cover MintPal's fuck up, the devs lose all credibility and are simply paid code monkeys for the exchanges.

Is that really what the community wants from a coin that had so much potential?

This is make or break time. The decisions made now will either cement VRC as a solid force in crypto or doom it to a slow and painful death.

Couldn't agree with you more. This decision has so many implications for miners, exchanges, both past and present. Miners on the wrong chain or users who recieved VRC in the time frame from the hack will lose their coins due to the "roll back" or what I call the "bail out" from the VRC devs.

^this.

rollback = centralized move compromising integrity of blockchain.  aka, fail.

[tigerwood0432]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

try a bigger font! also colours

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE , CAN I ADD SOME MUSIC TOO ?

[smoothie]

VeriCoin security was not breached or compromised in any way.
Mintpal is a centralized storage solution. Because of this, it is more vulnerable to attacks such as the one that has occured. https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17
In the best interest of VeriCoin, we have decided to revert the blockchain to a state immediately before the attack. This is not to protect MintPal from losses but rather to prevent a single entity from controlling 30% of the total supply, and to protect the VeriCoin users. Due to the way Proof of Stake operates, this quantity of coin could potentially attack the blockchain. To be clear, the coins that are on the Mintpal exchange are not owned by Mintpal but rather V!eriCoins owned by users.
Two Scenarios if you are a VeriCoin investor:
I. Your VeriCoins were stored in the VeriCoin wallet s ince 2AM EST 7/13/14
1. You are completely unaffected by this breach. Staking your VeriCoin in the wallet is the best decentralized solution.
II. Your VeriCoin was in an exchange after 2AM EST 7/13/14
A. In the best interest of VeriCoin Investors, the solution is to have the theft reversed. This is being done to
preserve decentralization of the blockchain due to the number of coins that were stolen.
1. Reversal of the theft is done by pin-pointing when the breach in Mintpal's security system occurred and
forking the blockchain prior to that point.
a) Reversal of the blockchain is not the preferred action but it vastly minimizes the loss to the
VeriCoin investors.
2. Mintpal will be reimbursing other exchanges and VeriCoin traders on their exchange for any
transactions that were made and lost since 2AM EST 7/13/14 due to the theft reversal process.
a) Mintpal will be going through each individual transaction line by line and compiling a list of
addresses to reimburse the VeriCoin investors.
b) This process will take time. Contact Mintpal or the exchange that you were using to trade VeriCoin
with any questions or concerns.
(1) Mintpal will be reimbursing their traders and will be reimbursing other exchanges so that those
exchanges can reimburse their traders as well.
(2) This is the Mintpal support link: https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?
module=tickets&sec=submit.step2&department=1
III. After the new wallet is released, the blockchain will continue from prior to when the Mintpal Security System was
breached.
_!_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________
First and foremost, our goal is to protect our VeriCoin community. This was not a security breach on our end, however we are working in conjunction with Mintpal to make sure our investors are reimbursed. We will continue to ensure that our blockchain is protected and provide answers to any questions you may have.
In the wake of this unfortunate attempt to weaken VeriCoin, we will rise stronger as a community, as investors, as s!takeholders and people!
Thank you for your continued support and patience during this time. The VeriCoin Team
Patrick Nosker, Douglas Pike and David Boehm

Last time I checked it wasn't the developer's job to protect their users. Users are supposed to do their own due diligence and protect themselves.

In essence Mintpal is a USER of Vericoin and thus the developers are protecting them. Total contradiction of logic there by the person who wrote this statement.

[btminer8]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

Agree. Pointless arguing with him, he doesn't even know what is he talking about.

[Dadams]

As stated before, there are 3 choices here.

1. Do nothing and let it play out as it plays out.
Vericoin could die. Price could crash if hacker sells and then rebound. Hacker could keep the coin and stake or attempt a majority attack.
Mintpal could die. Customers will expect to be reimbursed.
If either survives it will be because they deserve to.

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

3. Roll back the blockchain to before the theft.
This seems to be the plan at the moment.
Mintpal bailed out. Customers happy in the short term.
Long term consequences? This is effectively a charge back and a bailout of a central authority that messed up.
It is not their fault they got hacked but just like it is never your fault if you get robbed. It is the criminals fault.
But if you are an exchange that advertises security and deals with other peoples money then you are accountable.



I personally would prefer option 1 even though I will lose money.
As soon as you mess with this you set a precedent.
I can imagine devs don't want to take this chance with something they have spent a lot of money and time on.
It is also not their fault. Fault here lies with customers who left so much on exchanges to day trade (mostly from greed).
Fault is with Mintpal for lax security. Fault is with the hacker for being a criminal and a cancer on society.

If option 1 is unthinkable for dev, then option number 2 makes way more sense to me.
They lose nothing. Community who did not keep all their money on Mintpal lose nothing.
Mintpal loses, hacker loses.

Option nr 3 concerns me and I think a lot of people in cryptocurrency.
If you consider it in contrast to option 2, it is obviously a move to save Mintpal more than anything else.
It puts the legitimacy of the currency in question to save a single business entity.

[bitrap]

Common sense with the right morals > Cold-hard principles/rules

So basically it's OK and "morally just" for a central agency to decide when the rules and principles of crypto can be broken.

[smoothie]

Fuck U PATRICK! ........i have no respect for u ...........I will not be updating my wallet you faggot bitch  

This is an example of what will happen.

@VRC developers you will have people who will not update their clients nor miners.

This is a split in the chain as I wouldn't update either if I was a user.

[bigc1984]

Any bank compromised of 2 million USD that was discovered hours later would not be resolved as easy. This is BIG news for the financial industry, and probably annoying to the technology purists who want you to care about there next anon feature, or the paranoid banker people.

This is what a coin will need to break the mold, and current stigmas and go mainstream. I bet on it

You are a complete retard.  VRC's dev team's actions have centralized and compromised the integrity of it's blockchain, period.  How do you not understand this?  What they have chosen to do is in fact a bad thing, not a good thing.

It may be a "lesser of two evils" (though that very is debatable), but it is still evil, nonetheless.

+1 this coin is done for

[buy4crypto]

Common sense with the right morals > Cold-hard principles/rules

So basically it's OK and "morally just" for a central agency to decide when the rules and principles of crypto can be broken.

I know of a lot of people who think crypto is stupid, but love the blockchain, I am one of them, All you nuts out there need to realize people dont care for your stupid algo's and never will, all they want to do is buy something easy and not get hacked and shit stolen from them.

Computers make them uneasy, and for good reason. Look at all you crypto champions, wishing theft upon people to save your thesis. Taking that over a real world use that has benefits to save your purist view, so sad.

[pb2014]

No they picked the worse of two evils, they just proved this coin is completely centralized crypto and it will screw over countless innocent people.

How do you figure that a theft of VRC from an exchange is evidence of VRC being centralised? It was stolen from an exchange, not from a VRC services.

VRC is still a decentralised currency. If this had occurred from a service provided by VRC then you'd have a point but it is nothing to do with VRC and everything to do with, again, trading-exchange weaknesses.

It isn't decentralized if one developer can make changes and have them pushed to the community. That is a modern version of Bankster Bail outs. This is the first CRYPTO BANK BAIL OUT. I'm calling it.

lol

Were you surprised to see your stolen 8 million Vericions disappear from your wallet out of thin air and back to the hands of its rightful owners? Good.

[smoothie]

Given that about 30% of total VRC have been stolen and that 51% of staking coins are sufficient to gain control of the blockchain, I would guess that it is a pretty high possibility that use of the stolen coins to fork the chain would be successful. So, I understand why the devs would roll back the chain, as the loss of control would likely be permanent otherwise.

Now, about the viability of BC clone PoS coins, you've just seen a major weakness in an attack that didn't cost a lot with regard to fiat currency spent to accomplish it. Investors should think long and hard about what happened here, this could be a death blow to this type of PoS...

I agree this does put PoS coins in a bad light. Exchanges should not store more than a certain % in their hot wallets.

Instead of doing a PoW 51% attack just steal enough to do a 51% PoS attack.