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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803496 times)
macsga
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June 15, 2015, 01:15:36 PM
 #26501

It really is that bad:

There are claims of an astonishing three-year fall in a Greek person’s life expectancy in just five years since the country’s economy crashed. If confirmed, this would be without precedent in modern Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3123060/Babies-held-hostage-medical-fees-porters-paramedics-19-20-cut-searing-despatch-Athens-s-blood-soaked-hospitals-shows-Greece-literally-dying-leave-Euro.html

I can confirm, this is the story. I've recently had to go to a hospital for a family member and the situation there is awful. If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die. The situation is far worse with people who face a critical medical situation (ie: cancer patients). The medicines they apply to them are presented as "similar" but it's nowhere near that. The chemical compounds are in different percentage, not to mention the questionable process (and country) they're made.

As a Greek, I hope for an exit. I wish it would happen in 2009 - we would've been in the phase of economic rising rather than recession by now...

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June 15, 2015, 01:49:36 PM
 #26502

Dow down - 178

Yes, they lie and manipulate news.
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June 15, 2015, 02:02:38 PM
 #26503

It really is that bad:

There are claims of an astonishing three-year fall in a Greek person’s life expectancy in just five years since the country’s economy crashed. If confirmed, this would be without precedent in modern Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3123060/Babies-held-hostage-medical-fees-porters-paramedics-19-20-cut-searing-despatch-Athens-s-blood-soaked-hospitals-shows-Greece-literally-dying-leave-Euro.html

I can confirm, this is the story. I've recently had to go to a hospital for a family member and the situation there is awful. If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die. The situation is far worse with people who face a critical medical situation (ie: cancer patients). The medicines they apply to them are presented as "similar" but it's nowhere near that. The chemical compounds are in different percentage, not to mention the questionable process (and country) they're made.

As a Greek, I hope for an exit. I wish it would happen in 2009 - we would've been in the phase of economic rising rather than recession by now...

The sooner the better.  Look at Iceland now.

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June 15, 2015, 02:28:05 PM
 #26504

It really is that bad:

There are claims of an astonishing three-year fall in a Greek person’s life expectancy in just five years since the country’s economy crashed. If confirmed, this would be without precedent in modern Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3123060/Babies-held-hostage-medical-fees-porters-paramedics-19-20-cut-searing-despatch-Athens-s-blood-soaked-hospitals-shows-Greece-literally-dying-leave-Euro.html

I can confirm, this is the story. I've recently had to go to a hospital for a family member and the situation there is awful. If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die. The situation is far worse with people who face a critical medical situation (ie: cancer patients). The medicines they apply to them are presented as "similar" but it's nowhere near that. The chemical compounds are in different percentage, not to mention the questionable process (and country) they're made.

As a Greek, I hope for an exit. I wish it would happen in 2009 - we would've been in the phase of economic rising rather than recession by now...

I hope so too for you guys.  Go bankrupt -- I believe that that is an inalienable right because the inability to do so results in slavery -- once termed "sharecropping" in the US, but today I think its commonly called "wage slavery".  You seem to be an entire country in wage slavery right now and honestly the people who need to feel the repercussions of the mistakes that led to that are yourselves (done -- you've been bearing the brunt of for years) and your creditors (who so far have escaped unscathed).

Repudiate the debt but don't give the keys to the currency printing presses to your government.  I do not think that they have shown to be responsible enough to handle them.  They may attempt to take them, but you -- every individual -- needs to simply refuse to transact in the new Drachma.  The result would be Venezuela -- and the result of the Venezuela socialist experiment is ironically a 100%-capitalist black market economy (in practice), with an additional leech-class that sucks the value out of the country via artificial commodity to currency exchange rates only available to the politically connected.  You are seeing this to some degree now -- you can't get medical treatment unless you pay under the table in advance in cash.  Imagine that for absolutely everything that can be bought, not that much will be available for sale.   Instead of allowing the above, continue to use Euro, or move to USD (without a local central bank to create monetary units), and keep introducing people to Bitcoin.  I think Ecuador (for one) follows this model using the USD as its main currency unit.

Moving to Bitcoin would actually be best long term since the monetary supply inflation of the Euro or USD will end up being spent not-in-Greece, resulting in essentially a 2-5% yearly tax.  But right now using Bitcoin seems unlikely -- Bitcoin's supply inflation is higher than fiat currencies right now, and asking a country to adopt it en-masse seems far-fetched given Bitcoin's current adoption rate and scalability issues.

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June 15, 2015, 03:27:26 PM
 #26505

If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die.
Government supplied "free" services always sound great in the beginning, but when the government runs out of money nobody is remembers how to take care of themselves the way they did before the "free" services showed up.
macsga
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June 15, 2015, 03:35:11 PM
 #26506

If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die.
Government supplied "free" services always sound great in the beginning, but when the government runs out of money nobody is remembers how to take care of themselves the way they did before the "free" services showed up.

I think this is utterly wrong.

First of, the "Govt" NEVER supplied "free" services, the Insurance you've paid with your OWN money did. When the Banksters took your insurance money via "political decisions" to cover their margins from the infinite loan river they were running a couple of decades ago, this is not "saving your country's insurance system" this is plain, undeniable THEFT.

Second, the myth of "nationalizing" "private" debt. Never was, never is, never will be. This is THEFT! What happened here is happening all over the EU and (if Greece doesn't stop it) it will be the next canon in the whole world. Keep an eye how this evolves. Maybe it's your neighbour's house that's on fire...

Cheers.

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June 15, 2015, 03:45:23 PM
 #26507


Though back to your question, if you've given up on spinoffs as a salvation-- what do you think is going to make Bitcoin competative against the eventual altcoin that actually gets the formula right and makes significant, no compromise, technical advantages over Bitcoin--- and probably doesn't bother to cut you in on it?  Keep in mind, most of the people we hope will some day use Bitcoin haven't even been born yet.  Unless we fail and sully the potential for cryptocurrency in the public's mind, this is only the very beginning of a long history.

Just FWIW, if the current Blockstream cohort does this there is some chance that I would convert over via proof-of-burn on reasonable terms, and especially if the clowns cannot be run out of Bitcoin (which doesn't seem eminent.)  I'd want to see it backing sidechains and would want to see a modestly promising sidechains ecosystem in practice first.


... everyone who works in SV understands that rapidly gaining mkt share via the Uber and AirBnB model  works and is crucial to outrunning regulation.

Pfft!  How's that working out for you after half a decade now?  Not well?  How very surprising that a solution which is vastly inferior to the competition in the exchange currency space cannot get a foothold.  Even with an amazing degree of media support, and even a surprising degree regulatory support here in the U.S. for that matter.

Edit:  BTW, what the fuck do you know about SV anyway?  'Outrunning regulation' was no more a winning strategy than 'security through obscurity'.  Sure, it can work fine...mostly when nobody gives a shit about you.


thanks for highlighting that pt.  it clearly shows that i am correct in assuming that gmax is a Bitcoin Bear.  but instead of working on improving Bitcoin proper, he wants to create SC's that shunt all value units out of the mainchain initially then all mining fees eventually.  the key to me that he subconsciously knows this is his objections to raising beyond 1MB which would kill his for profit project.

the mere fact that you would "consider" migrating your BTC over to a superior SC makes my pt even further.  that would destroy all of us who have value stored away in cold wallets.  the exchange rates on which chain  appeared to be headed for obsolescence (MC vs SC) would be sold off en masse and along with it, mining hashrate would wither, thus making your ability to migrate through the 2wp close to impossible as your coins have to be mined into a tx proof with enough POW to be valid.

and as for your assertion that Bitcoin is not doing well after 6y?  are you kidding me?  it's doing great.  with Ripple Bank out of the way, with Ethereum appearing to have run out of money, all that is left is for Bitcoin to shed this Blockstream SC 1MB noose around our neck for it to take off to the races.

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June 15, 2015, 03:58:43 PM
 #26508

If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die.
Government supplied "free" services always sound great in the beginning, but when the government runs out of money nobody is remembers how to take care of themselves the way they did before the "free" services showed up.

I think this is utterly wrong.

First of, the "Govt" NEVER supplied "free" services, the Insurance you've paid with your OWN money did. When the Banksters took your insurance money via "political decisions" to cover their margins from the infinite loan river they were running a couple of decades ago, this is not "saving your country's insurance system" this is plain, undeniable THEFT.

Second, the myth of "nationalizing" "private" debt. Never was, never is, never will be. This is THEFT! What happened here is happening all over the EU and (if Greece doesn't stop it) it will be the next canon in the whole world. Keep an eye how this evolves. Maybe it's your neighbour's house that's on fire...

Cheers.

which is why i find Blythe Master's recent involvement in Bitcoin to be extremely bullish.  this is the lady who created the CDS which was a big part of the 2008 crisis and probably any future crisis. she understand money and especially how to exploit it.  if she fails to see any exploit in Bitcoin, what does that say for it's future?  i suppose there is a possibility that she thinks she sees an exploit, which may explain her talking about "blockchain" as opposed to "bitcoin".  but that would be ok too, as long as she is bullish on Bitcoin, which she is.  if she is bullish on Bitcoin, i fail to see how anyone else could not be. 

back to the part about houses on fire.  Warren Buffett described CDS as WMD.  i love his example of how if someone else is allowed to buy an insurance on your house, he has a significant motivation to drop a few matches around your house.  if Blockstream has an insurance policy/investment in SC tech, maybe they'd be more likely to drop a few matches around the MC in the form of a 1MB choke point?
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June 15, 2015, 04:04:39 PM
 #26509

Though back to your question, if you've given up on spinoffs as a salvation-- what do you think is going to make Bitcoin competative against the eventual altcoin that actually gets the formula right and makes significant, no compromise, technical advantages over Bitcoin--- and probably doesn't bother to cut you in on it?  Keep in mind, most of the people we hope will some day use Bitcoin haven't even been born yet.

I doubt we will have to wait that long. I believe I am in possession of a significant component of that formula now. Fortunately because of pegged side chains even (if only via federated servers), this formula should be coming to all those who HODL BTC.

Cypherdoc, you are a fool for fighting futility against[1] what is going to save your BTC a$$ BTCutt this year.

Gregory, this block size debate is really just noise and it will be subsumed soon no matter the outcome. Therefor my suggestion is just let them bang their pots and pans together (they must be Italian, lol) and carry on with your important work please.

Also there are bigger picture network effects that have a more high level relevance to decentralization ecosystems.

I haven't fully digested the Blockstream whitepaper. Would you or anyone be so kind as to clarify how pegged side chains won't be prone to fractional reserve debasement:

...

Assuming debasement of BTC can be cryptographically prevented (but I can't fathom how that can be possible in a decentralized context  Huh ... however I haven't yet entirely digested the Blockstream whitepaper), then I don't see how you justify your claim that Bitcoin might end up supporting altcoins?

(actually I see another way, and it appears to be a win-win paradigm for all involved)

Are users going to be expected to trust peer review of the open source of each side chain to know whether the side chain debases its pegged monetary unit?


[1] Or unwittingly conflating your irrelevant fight for block size increase when you ad hominem the devs of the pegged side chains tech you will de$BTCerately need to deal with a black swan.


for the thousandth time, 1MB was a temporary patch to counteract DoS on the network when it was small and vulnerable.  today is quite different, which goes to your pt that things have evolved for Bitcoin to easily remove that artificial limit to allow for the inevitable growth that will come in the next spike.  cramping it at 1MB, which was never meant to happen, is the height of hypocrisy. many, many ppl including in the technical community that i see here and on reddit feel that the limit should be raised.  everyone who works in SV understands that rapidly gaining mkt share via the Uber and AirBnB model  works and is crucial to outrunning regulation.  your small block theory is the epitome of centralization forcing all users off the mainchain and into offchain solutions, some more centralized and regulated than others.

This argument even exists because either direction on the block side decision is flawed, that is if we only are stuck with the current PoW algorithm.

But pegged side chains enable the ability to transfer BTC value to new consensus algorithms (and not just variants of PoS) that paradigm shift out of the mutual annihilation scenario.

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June 15, 2015, 04:05:46 PM
 #26510

If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die.
Government supplied "free" services always sound great in the beginning, but when the government runs out of money nobody is remembers how to take care of themselves the way they did before the "free" services showed up.

I think this is utterly wrong.

First of, the "Govt" NEVER supplied "free" services, the Insurance you've paid with your OWN money did. When the Banksters took your insurance money via "political decisions" to cover their margins from the infinite loan river they were running a couple of decades ago, this is not "saving your country's insurance system" this is plain, undeniable THEFT.

Second, the myth of "nationalizing" "private" debt. Never was, never is, never will be. This is THEFT! What happened here is happening all over the EU and (if Greece doesn't stop it) it will be the next canon in the whole world. Keep an eye how this evolves. Maybe it's your neighbour's house that's on fire...

Cheers.
There never was any insurance, it was theft from the beginning
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June 15, 2015, 04:24:07 PM
 #26511

lots and lots of big words.  never any justification for preventing Bitcoin from fulfilling it's original vision:
Your selective quoting ignores how this was a response to a 'how could this possibly work at all'.  I've used the same kind of response to "omg flooding network! how could that possibly work! it's completely non-scalable!" -- to point out that even non-scalable can achieve some remarkable stuff.  This doesn't answer any particular question about the exact tradeoff that works, but works to wake people up.  Particular because before Bitcoin the alternative was exclusively centralized systems so when you show that if you don't care about decentralization (which you must not if you question the value it provides compared to all that came before) then it can reach arbitrarily high scale.

We can't hope to guess at what anyone from back then would think about the current state of the world, though we do know that e.g. the current mining ecosystem would have been regarded as a system failure from the original precepts; and we also know that decentralization and autonomy were principle motivations for the creation of the system in the first place.

While I'm here, hows your Bitcoin Spinoffs project going, Cypherdoc?

One, how is modern mining (i.e. stratum miners connected to large pools) in any manner affected by blocksize? You have claimed multiple times that 20MB blocks will negatively impact mining decentralization, but then ignore all counter arguments outlining how that position is baseless.

Two, how is the current mining & node ecosystem a failure? Satoshi clearly thought there would be centralization over time, it's not clear that today's environment of a small number of full trustless participants (full nodes and pools) and a large number of individual trusting users (SPV users and stratum miners) differs from the centralization Satoshi said should happen over time.
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June 15, 2015, 04:29:32 PM
 #26512

If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die.
Government supplied "free" services always sound great in the beginning, but when the government runs out of money nobody is remembers how to take care of themselves the way they did before the "free" services showed up.

This is one of the many reason societies that emphasize hard work, self reliance, self sufficiency and individualism continue to succeed over those that don't. Just imagine the suffering that would happen in the US if suddenly the government could no longer provide unlimited food stamps, section 9 housing, welfare, disability, etc. None of these things existed 100 years ago in the US, yet the US still had the highest standard of living at the time. These programs simply build dependency, and no one who promotes them ever stops to think about what will happen when they eventually become unsustainable.
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June 15, 2015, 04:29:37 PM
 #26513

it's not clear that today's environment of a small number of full trustless participants (full nodes and pools)

You've consistently stated incorrect technical conclusions upthread which I have corrected. I won't even bother to unravel your convoluted errors on this one...

I suppose that is why this thread does not exist in "Development & Technical Discussion" because it would be moderated so heavily because most of what is written in this thread is technical nonsense.

If your argument is not (unwittingly?) intended to obfuscate that you want a centralized Bitcoin that is controlled by vested interests, then just state it rather than attempting to hide behind your lack of appreciation of all the technical and economic issues, such as but not limited to out-of-band incentives (game theory) which invalidate the Nash equilibrium and the notion of "trustless" centralized full nodes and pools.

If you are intending to couch behind the "it's not clear" meaning you have have no point, then please admit it rather than use your uncertainty as an argument for one side of the debate.

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June 15, 2015, 04:58:35 PM
 #26514


Though back to your question, if you've given up on spinoffs as a salvation-- what do you think is going to make Bitcoin competative against the eventual altcoin that actually gets the formula right and makes significant, no compromise, technical advantages over Bitcoin--- and probably doesn't bother to cut you in on it?  Keep in mind, most of the people we hope will some day use Bitcoin haven't even been born yet.  Unless we fail and sully the potential for cryptocurrency in the public's mind, this is only the very beginning of a long history.

Just FWIW, if the current Blockstream cohort does this there is some chance that I would convert over via proof-of-burn on reasonable terms, and especially if the clowns cannot be run out of Bitcoin (which doesn't seem eminent.)  I'd want to see it backing sidechains and would want to see a modestly promising sidechains ecosystem in practice first.


... everyone who works in SV understands that rapidly gaining mkt share via the Uber and AirBnB model  works and is crucial to outrunning regulation.

Pfft!  How's that working out for you after half a decade now?  Not well?  How very surprising that a solution which is vastly inferior to the competition in the exchange currency space cannot get a foothold.  Even with an amazing degree of media support, and even a surprising degree regulatory support here in the U.S. for that matter.

Edit:  BTW, what the fuck do you know about SV anyway?  'Outrunning regulation' was no more a winning strategy than 'security through obscurity'.  Sure, it can work fine...mostly when nobody gives a shit about you.


thanks for highlighting that pt.  it clearly shows that i am correct in assuming that gmax is a Bitcoin Bear.  but instead of working on improving Bitcoin proper, he wants to create SC's that shunt all value units out of the mainchain initially then all mining fees eventually.  the key to me that he subconsciously knows this is his objections to raising beyond 1MB which would kill his for profit project.

Looks to my like Maxwell and the Blockstream guys are fighting a rear-guard battle to keep Bitcoin relevant in spite of both severe deficiencies which are evident after half a decade of practice and after significant internal attacks by quasi-devs.  Bitcoin functioning in a role which hides it's deficiencies and allows it to leverage it's strengths is the best way to achieve this IMO.  That is exactly what Blockstream is doing as I see it.

I might add that you never seem to miss an opportunity to try to put words in Maxwell's mouth.  He didn't indicate that he wanted to see a superior system develop but rather that it is possible.  It's ME who is saying that I may well be interested in both seeing it happen and to see Blockstream do it.  If nothing else it would be outstanding insurance against scumbags like Hearn.

the mere fact that you would "consider" migrating your BTC over to a superior SC makes my pt even further.  that would destroy all of us who have value stored away in cold wallets.  the exchange rates on which chain  appeared to be headed for obsolescence (MC vs SC) would be sold off en masse and along with it, mining hashrate would wither, thus making your ability to migrate through the 2wp close to impossible as your coins have to be mined into a tx proof with enough POW to be valid.

Slight correction:  I'm not talking about migrating an 'SC'.  I'll use SC's no matter what.  I'm talking about migrating to a different reserve currency if you guys manage to torpedo Bitcoin.  It's mostly that I'm not going to follow the herd off the cliff.  It's not my nature.  Beyond that, no, I'm not married to Bitcoin or any particular implementation thereof.  I've got general ideas about what I want distributed crypto-currencies to achieve and they are more critical to me than any particular implementation.

I see Blockstream as a unique point in time when an unusual bubble of participants who I have some confidence in has developed.  Although my confidence in them is not where I would ideally like it to be, there will probably never be another time when I can have the same degree of confidence in a particular group.  Nor will there probably be a situation where the scumbag contingent is so evident and prone to trigger an opportunity like the XT fork.

and as for your assertion that Bitcoin is not doing well after 6y?  are you kidding me?  it's doing great.  with Ripple Bank out of the way, with Ethereum appearing to have run out of money, all that is left is for Bitcoin to shed this Blockstream SC 1MB noose around our neck for it to take off to the races.

Bitcoin has remained viable on the back of subsidization as much as any, but it's got first-mover advantage which has allowed it to survive better than most.  I'm not willing to bet my stash on the hope that the VC pockets never run dry.  I've put some of their money in my pocket already and don't expect that they'll welcome an indefinite repeat of this process.


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June 15, 2015, 05:01:50 PM
 #26515

Mike Hearn's infallible logic:

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/34206292/

bottomline is you skeptics can disrespect him all day long but the smart among us will listen and think about the content of what he says.
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June 15, 2015, 05:12:03 PM
 #26516

it's not clear that today's environment of a small number of full trustless participants (full nodes and pools)

You've consistently stated incorrect technical conclusions upthread which I have corrected. I won't even bother to unravel your convoluted errors on this one...

I suppose that is why this thread does not exist in "Development & Technical Discussion" because it would be moderated so heavily because most of what is written in this thread is technical nonsense.

If your argument is not (unwittingly?) intended to obfuscate that you want a centralized Bitcoin that is controlled by vested interests, then just state it rather than attempting to hide behind your lack of appreciation of all the technical and economic issues, such as but not limited to out-of-band incentives (game theory) which invalidate the Nash equilibrium and the notion of "trustless" centralized full nodes and pools.

If you are intending to couch behind the "it's not clear" meaning you have have no point, then please admit it rather than use your uncertainty as an argument for one side of the debate.

TPTB's incoherent rantings always remind me of the Sokal Hoax. For those not familiar a well known Physicist submitted a paper to well known journal that was purposely written as a mix of logical fallacies, inconsistencies and just random psycho babble. The paper was accepted and he even presented it to a conference of tenured humanities professors, who at first were nodding in intellectual agreement before it he had to dial up the crazy to the point that everyone got the joke. It demonstrated how a lot of supposidly smart people like to string together complex nonsense that says nothing simply to make them feel smart.

http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/lingua_franca_v4/lingua_franca_v4.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair#Content_of_the_article
http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2_singlefile.html

Read the paper for fun. Now tell me that it doesn't sound a lot like TPTB's rantings.

Oh, and TPTB, the reason I haven't replied to you before is because you are the one and only ignore I have. Just took it off (temporarily) to see if I should change that. Still see there is nothing to respond to. Your posts are nothing but personal attacks that do not even attempt to say anything factual, just put downs and statements about how your right because you are smarter than everyone else.
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June 15, 2015, 05:15:38 PM
 #26517

i've always said that when it comes down to federated server pegged SC's, go right ahead.  it doesn't change the protocol so i don't worry.

It can be the leverage that causes the protocol to effectively change by replacement of Core. A pegged side chain that is undeniably superior to Bitcoin Core could suck all the BTC out of Core and that pegged side chain could have the spvp implemented. That isn't a guarantee of it happening, but from my perspective the odds are quite high. One of the attributes that raises the odds of such is the resistance to changing the protocol of Core. Thus any undeniably superior tech is unlikely to be politically implementable in Core.

I repeat that a consensus algorithm which can't be 50% attacked has an even better odds of catapulting Core, because it won't be vulnerable in its infancy.

This journey has been like playing a strategy game. I've thoroughly enjoyed it.


TPTB's incoherent rantings always remind me of the Sokal Hoax.

It is by design above your comprehension level; thus it appears to you to be noise. I'd prefer to appear to be a crackpot to n00bs at this juncture and sage to those with relevant experience and intellect.

For example, the notion of an existential type is I am sure completely incomprehensible to you.

just put downs and statements about how your right because you are smarter than everyone else.

I've corrected you technically several times already upthread. And I did actually point out of one aspect of your technical myopia in my latest rebuttal of you. That you can't detect the technical logic therein is indicative of your inability to comprehend that which is above your level of technical expertise.


T-existing-PTB

I did manage to cause conflation of the use of that term, lol.

tvbcof
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June 15, 2015, 05:17:54 PM
 #26518

Mike Hearn's infallible logic:

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/34206292/

bottomline is you skeptics can disrespect him all day long but the smart among us will listen and think about the content of what he says.

Personally, I'm allergic to 'infallible' beings.  I'm allergic to Mr. Hearn for a lot more reasons than just that however.

I have to agree that Hearn is quite smart.  He foresaw the consolidation of infrastructure long before anyone else and foresaw the opportunities that it could provide for the T-existing-PTB.  And he's worked tirelessly for half a decade to bring this scenario to fruition and set up to help his friends exploit it.


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June 15, 2015, 05:42:00 PM
 #26519

If you don't have the money to handle your own medicine, you literally die.
Government supplied "free" services always sound great in the beginning, but when the government runs out of money nobody is remembers how to take care of themselves the way they did before the "free" services showed up.

I think this is utterly wrong.

First of, the "Govt" NEVER supplied "free" services, the Insurance you've paid with your OWN money did. When the Banksters took your insurance money via "political decisions" to cover their margins from the infinite loan river they were running a couple of decades ago, this is not "saving your country's insurance system" this is plain, undeniable THEFT.

Second, the myth of "nationalizing" "private" debt. Never was, never is, never will be. This is THEFT! What happened here is happening all over the EU and (if Greece doesn't stop it) it will be the next canon in the whole world. Keep an eye how this evolves. Maybe it's your neighbour's house that's on fire...

Cheers.
There never was any insurance, it was theft from the beginning

there is insurance, when people collectively decide to contribute to a community's well being in addition to the individuals, I'd say it's more likely to happen with in a global blockchain system than it was ever as a set of kleptocratic government institutions. In South Africa we pay people to watch our cars because if we don't they will break in to see if there is anything of value, that is the free market system at work it's called symbiosis, is works the same way as insurance it not theft like you think it's theft, to believe it is theft is to believe it is a right to be born with more assess to resources than you competition, what makes it theft is using an inflating money supply.

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June 15, 2015, 05:48:12 PM
 #26520

Quote from: @jgarzik
RFC: #Bitcoin core BIP 100 draft, v0.8.1:
http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/BIP100-blocksizechangeproposal.pdf
Changes:  32MB explicit cap (versus implicit), tighten language

https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/610494283334860800
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