Bitcoin Forum
December 06, 2016, 10:32:48 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 1305 1306 1307 1308 1309 1310 1311 1312 1313 1314 1315 1316 [1317] 1318 1319 1320 1321 1322 1323 1324 1325 1326 1327 1328 1329 1330 1331 1332 1333 1334 1335 1336 1337 1338 1339 1340 1341 1342 1343 1344 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1351 1352 1353 1354 1355 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 1364 1365 1366 1367 ... 1560 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805003 times)
majamalu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652



View Profile WWW
June 11, 2015, 06:00:42 AM
 #26321


Note I think altcoins can coexist and benefit from pegged side chains (nullifying the risk that pegged side chains could copy and steal value from innovation, i.e. threat of Communism!).

Well, the altcoins stole value from btc innovation in the first place.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
1481020368
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481020368

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481020368
Reply with quote  #2

1481020368
Report to moderator
"Bitcoin: mining our own business since 2009" -- Pieter Wuille
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481020368
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481020368

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481020368
Reply with quote  #2

1481020368
Report to moderator
TPTB_need_war
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 06:12:23 AM
 #26322


The author apparently thinks that users won't reveal their view keys in public.

The author (me) does not think that.

But does, apparently, attempt to publish pragmatic improvements in technology, without raising his expectations of others to the point of being discouraging.

As you do not publish your design, I can only respond with wild imagination. Your bearer coin might do well to hide values in its off-chain components; whether this specific technology may be useful for that, I do not know. I can imagine that the pure hash on-chain re-orgs are going to be possible and fun. Lamport signatures or much longer keylength for quantum computing. Of course, when people are Sybil nodes, and your spend is to an under-cover agent, and the courts shall accept the agent's circumstantial proof as sufficient and ignore the [lack of] math, ... oh what a world.

Again I appreciate what you have done with the Sumcoin whitepaper. For one, you made it much more intelligible than the unpolished brain dumps I had read from Adam and Gregory. Also I prefer your technical writing skills compared to mine. And perhaps on the same block chain some coexistence of Cryptonote's rings (with equal denominations) and this new homomorphic encryption (with unequal denominations) might be the optimal solution. We should probably discuss that at some point and maybe you and others are already doing that.

I don't think my design removes the block chain, rather I argue it just moves non-scalable part of it and alters the trust model to something that isn't a lie to ourselves. It is a similar argument that Gregory (Jorge) makes but inverts the construct and puts more decision power into the ends of the network (which is why I presume you use the term "bearer"). So I could see your work being incorporated. One my goals is to be agnostic to the transaction model because my weakness is I am only an autodidact on the crypto-math, thus I want others (such as yourself) to have the freedom to innovate there without needing to market a new instance of a consensus algorithm (i.e. maximize the division-of-labor and let each focus on his/her strengths in a separation-of-concerns).

I believe quantum resistant rings, PKE trap doors, ZK exist and we just need to reformulate them into these new constructs. Hopefully we can motivate some research perhaps with calls to action and/or financial incentives.

Yeah I agree we need anonymity that is mathematically reliable, because the math-inept society won't forgive us for being math literate about plausible deniability.

TPTB_need_war
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 06:31:28 AM
 #26323


Note I think altcoins can coexist and benefit from pegged side chains (nullifying the risk that pegged side chains could copy and steal value from innovation, i.e. threat of Communism!).

Well, the altcoins stole value from btc innovation in the first place.

No they expanded the ecosystem by increasing innovation (even if in most cases that innovation was only to increase speculation opportunities since many come to this ecosystem for speculation) and that insight is also the generative essence of my insight into what altcoins need to do to survive along with pegged side chains.

If you wanted a monopoly on speculation to drive the Bitcoin price to the moon, then close the doors to entropy (which is only possible within your fleeting Coasian closed system) and attain your miniaturized desktop rendition of the solar system.

Pegged side chains will probably drive consolidation of speculation into fewer variants, because of the importance of capturing the voting power of the peg which is machine verifiably not duplicitous. I think the speculation markets are exhausted/diluted of too many copycoin variants and so this appears to be timely so we can gain synergies.

lunarboy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 544



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 08:10:29 AM
 #26324

TPTB_need_war, this thread isn't the same without your insight,

Yeah, it would be readable for a start.  Tongue
kazuki49
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 10:54:54 AM
 #26325


Note I think altcoins can coexist and benefit from pegged side chains (nullifying the risk that pegged side chains could copy and steal value from innovation, i.e. threat of Communism!).

Well, the altcoins stole value from btc innovation in the first place.

No they expanded the ecosystem by increasing innovation (even if in most cases that innovation was only to increase speculation opportunities since many come to this ecosystem for speculation) and that insight is also the generative essence of my insight into what altcoins need to do to survive along with pegged side chains.

Yeah, heres why I'm personally not interested in (Bitcoin) sidechains:

Sidechains are altcoins, which use Bitcoins as their basis. By subscribing to the sidechain, you subscribe to the same ethos as Bitcoin... namely, the vast number of coins owned by Satoshi and now the core developers (some of whom were rumoured or seen to have made large purchases of Bitcoins with the formation of Blockstream).

There is also a black swan in form of Monero sidechains brewing in the future:

Quote
The idea is that the dynamic block limit should give us the ability to slowly grow as consumer technology (bandwidth, latency, disk space) improves, but if we find that we're starting to outpace it we can make the limiter more aggressive. Moreover, we're (hopefully) going to have enough functionality moved to daughter-chains / sidechains over the next few years that mainchain won't be filled with unnecessary metadata.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/394dep/how_does_monero_scale/cs0utg7

can't status quo innovation in the Internet era Grin
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
June 11, 2015, 12:35:55 PM
 #26326

Attempting to censor me through intimidation is not going to work.

Hi guise, how's the slow-mo trainwreck going in here? everyone happy? good  Wink

Notice how it went off the rails when you started crappin all over the devs?

Try to keep it in your trousers, remember who's piloting this plane, who's the passengers and stop trying to grab the stick, KK? Ta, tally ho.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 02:56:18 PM
 #26327

such a shame.  GG dumping to new lows.  very bad sign:

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:15:48 PM
 #26328

my, my.  /u/nullc continuing to be being assailed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39f6j6/bitnodes_which_recently_updated_its_crawling/
TPTB_need_war
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:17:32 PM
 #26329

There is also a black swan in form of Monero sidechains brewing in the future

Will never fly due to the consolidation effect:

I can't wait for the multitude of sidechain forks that all compete with each other. Sidechains themselves require incentives to operate securely, such as fees and the continued security of the Bitcoin network, so I'd guess we'll start to see a lot of the same issues in sidechain space as we do in altchain space. I really don't think there's any difference between the two. You can also issue your own assets already on Bitcoin (e.g. coinprism, counterparty), so the notion of token issuance for use in general scamming will surely appear on sidechains as well. You can't out-technology human speculation in finance.

There is no speculation incentive because all investments are denominated in BTC. Thus this will force consolidation. Unless there are revenue models and/or dividends for side chains.

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:28:17 PM
 #26330

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:30:35 PM
 #26331

more and more and more with deafening silence from the armchair logisticians throwing FUD:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39a2ct/in_early_2013_it_became_a_common_belief_that_new/cs2ta27?context=3
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:32:47 PM
 #26332

XT continuing to grow:

dEBRUYNE
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 868


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:41:44 PM
 #26333

There is also a black swan in form of Monero sidechains brewing in the future

Will never fly due to the consolidation effect:

I can't wait for the multitude of sidechain forks that all compete with each other. Sidechains themselves require incentives to operate securely, such as fees and the continued security of the Bitcoin network, so I'd guess we'll start to see a lot of the same issues in sidechain space as we do in altchain space. I really don't think there's any difference between the two. You can also issue your own assets already on Bitcoin (e.g. coinprism, counterparty), so the notion of token issuance for use in general scamming will surely appear on sidechains as well. You can't out-technology human speculation in finance.

There is no speculation incentive because all investments are denominated in BTC. Thus this will force consolidation. Unless there are revenue models and/or dividends for side chains.

So you're basically saying XMR will never fly because it is (currenlty) pegged to BTC? What is your opinion if it won't be pegged anymore?

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
TPTB_need_war
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:47:53 PM
 #26334

There is also a black swan in form of Monero sidechains brewing in the future

Will never fly due to the consolidation effect:

I can't wait for the multitude of sidechain forks that all compete with each other. Sidechains themselves require incentives to operate securely, such as fees and the continued security of the Bitcoin network, so I'd guess we'll start to see a lot of the same issues in sidechain space as we do in altchain space. I really don't think there's any difference between the two. You can also issue your own assets already on Bitcoin (e.g. coinprism, counterparty), so the notion of token issuance for use in general scamming will surely appear on sidechains as well. You can't out-technology human speculation in finance.

There is no speculation incentive because all investments are denominated in BTC. Thus this will force consolidation. Unless there are revenue models and/or dividends for side chains.

So you're basically saying XMR will never fly because it is (currenlty) pegged to BTC? What is your opinion if it won't be pegged anymore?

Is XMR tracking BTC with the same ROI?

My point is that side chains on XMR is silly. XMR needs to leverage BTC side chains.

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 03:53:07 PM
 #26335

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39f6j6/bitnodes_which_recently_updated_its_crawling/cs342fr
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 04:04:07 PM
 #26336

with all the BS-FUD swirling around from all the armchair logisticians, the safest, wisest course of action is to fall back onto Satoshi's original vision, grow Bitcoin proper.
tvbcof
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1974


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 04:22:29 PM
 #26337


Is XMR tracking BTC with the same ROI?

My point is that side chains on XMR is silly. XMR needs to leverage BTC side chains.

The interesting thing about sidechains is that the could be backed by anything.  As a matter of fact, almost anything would be a better choice than a Bitcoin which is under management by Mike Hearn since the one thing which a backing store (be it gold, crypto, whatever) cannot tolerate are fungibility problems and they are the next phase in XT and probably the next item of focus if he get's Bitcoin moved under them.

If the idea of moving Bitcoin under XT does not become DOA, I'll have to bite the bullet and start researching alts.  I doubt that the Blockstream guys are going to just crawl away and die in the unlikely event that Hearn wins and Bitcoin becomes XT.  And I suspect that the Blockstream guys will see very clearly the impossibility of using XT as a sidechain backing solution.

There is always MP's 'real core' project which, as a hodler, I would be a default part of.  I'm bored of Bitcoin as a fairly useless toy for the elite however and really would like to see a way for it to be put to a more broad use for humanity.  Without killing it of course.


dEBRUYNE
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 868


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 04:24:47 PM
 #26338

There is also a black swan in form of Monero sidechains brewing in the future

Will never fly due to the consolidation effect:

I can't wait for the multitude of sidechain forks that all compete with each other. Sidechains themselves require incentives to operate securely, such as fees and the continued security of the Bitcoin network, so I'd guess we'll start to see a lot of the same issues in sidechain space as we do in altchain space. I really don't think there's any difference between the two. You can also issue your own assets already on Bitcoin (e.g. coinprism, counterparty), so the notion of token issuance for use in general scamming will surely appear on sidechains as well. You can't out-technology human speculation in finance.

There is no speculation incentive because all investments are denominated in BTC. Thus this will force consolidation. Unless there are revenue models and/or dividends for side chains.

So you're basically saying XMR will never fly because it is (currenlty) pegged to BTC? What is your opinion if it won't be pegged anymore?

Is XMR tracking BTC with the same ROI?

My point is that side chains on XMR is silly. XMR needs to leverage BTC side chains.

I get your point now, misread your previous comment a bit. I agree that sidechains on XMR and sidechains in general are a bit silly. Anyway, sidechains on XMR will probably take another couple of years, if they even get released.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
TPTB_need_war
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
June 11, 2015, 04:30:30 PM
 #26339


Is XMR tracking BTC with the same ROI?

My point is that side chains on XMR is silly. XMR needs to leverage BTC side chains.

The interesting thing about sidechains is that the could be backed by anything.  As a matter of fact, almost anything would be a better choice than a Bitcoin which is under management by Mike Hearn since the one thing which a backing store (be it gold, crypto, whatever) cannot tolerate are fungibility problems and they are the next phase in XT and probably the next item of focus if he get's Bitcoin moved under them.

If the idea of moving Bitcoin under XT does not become DOA, I'll have to bite the bullet and start researching alts.  I doubt that the Blockstream guys are going to just crawl away and die in the unlikely event that Hearn wins and Bitcoin becomes XT.  And I suspect that the Blockstream guys will see very clearly the impossibility of using XT as a sidechain backing solution.

There is always MP's 'real core' project which, as a hodler, I would be a default part of.  I'm bored of Bitcoin as a fairly useless toy for the elite however and really would like to see a way for it to be put to a more broad use for humanity.  Without killing it of course.

Does Mike Hearn really control Bitcoin?

In my mind, BTC is owned by the community and the community will assert its will via the voting for Blockstream pegged side chains economically.

Once I realized there is a way for altcoins to leverage pegged BTC side chains without being subsumed by them, then it all appears to fit synergistically together in a competitive ecosystem. One of the key innovations needed is to eliminate the 50% attack so that side chains aren't hostage nor hold Core hostage.

Thanks for pushing my initial (incomplete) thinking on side chains.

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
June 11, 2015, 04:39:41 PM
 #26340

even under the "benevolent dictator" scenario, that principal core dev would not control Bitcoin and it would not be decentralized.

the decentralization comes from all the full nodes, miners, and user base which is spread round the world with the economic majority calling the shots of which the "benevolent dictator" must listen and respond to otherwise someone just creates a hard fork to which the economic majority will migrate to all possible b/c of open source and Satoshi's original design.

which is why we need to stick to Satoshi's original vision and reject bastardizations of it like SC's.
Pages: « 1 ... 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 1305 1306 1307 1308 1309 1310 1311 1312 1313 1314 1315 1316 [1317] 1318 1319 1320 1321 1322 1323 1324 1325 1326 1327 1328 1329 1330 1331 1332 1333 1334 1335 1336 1337 1338 1339 1340 1341 1342 1343 1344 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1351 1352 1353 1354 1355 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 1364 1365 1366 1367 ... 1560 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!