Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[World]

Don't ignore the case, no. But don't use it to make a point either.

There are definitely too many hurdles for most people, I just think this case is a shitty example.

It's actually a very good example, because it hit nearly every extrinsic limitation of Bitcoin today. It illustrates the connectivity-dependent nature of the system, potential inconsistency with related software, and the extent of planning necessary to conduct a transaction in less-than-ideal circumstances. Even if it's an edge case, it means there are opportunities for enterprising minds to provide numerous types of supporting services that will smooth the situation.

What would be even more interesting is information to compare how many smooth transactions occur relative to how many run into problems, and the extent of failure (e.g. delayed versus canceled, performed through another currency, etc).

you mean to tell me there are no Starbuck's in Iceland?  those ppl were just not motivated enough, plain and simple.

$10 for wifi is standard fare.  should've been no big deal.  i just paid $12 per 24h while travelling.

pff. friggin $10 for wifi is a joke. Go to south korea for a change: free wifi on the smallest friggin island. When I was in London I bought 500 MB of data each day for €2. I can do this in almost all European countries and the provider I have is not a positive exception.

Most mobile providers offer pretty affordable data plan abroad nowadays. it's only getting better, too, since customers are growing more aware of these things when making a contract and therefor it's a selling point and providers are growing more aware of the fact.

I think "not motivated enough" hits the nail on the head. Island is not some 3rd world country (although I tend to think the situation might even be better in 3rd world countries),... there are internet cafes (who specialize in offering internet connection to customers, their main business, the other being to offer computers for use) and cafes with free wifi for sure. Screw the hotel for advertising free wifi when it doesn't offer it.

I've been driving from germany to Amman, Jordan a couple years ago (passing through bulgaria, turkey, syria and so on, 13 different countries in all). Getting internet was usually much easier than finding a good, cheap place to sleep (we blogged regularly so we had to have internet basically every night)

The only problem I see with bitcoins dependance on network infrastructure is in some sort of an armageddon-style situation or global war or something. Hopefully the powers that be will not initiate ww3 just to kill bitcoin.

The Kindle 3G keyboard third,fourth generation and the Kindle Paperwhite 3G fifth generation provides free 3G connectivity (GPRS,EDGE,3G) worldwide.
I have experience with Kindle 3G keyboard third generation in so many different places worldwide and just one times I don't have connectivity in Guam.

[ElectricMucus]

The concentrated delusion in this thread is mind-boggling.  

I ask you this: How do you account for Golds uniqueness, that is it's natural scarcity and it's practical use based upon it's physical properties.
Do you really think that Bitcoin will never be replaced by some similar, more advanced technology?
Do you really think in the case of the possible compromise of it's security people would stick to Bitcoin instead of switching to something else which already uses different algorithms?

To remind you: Satoshi intended Bitcoin to be "an experiment" and possible provide freedom for "a few years". That are his words, so the things you attribute to Bitcoin is something that it wasn't intended to be.
At last: Do you think Satoshi lacked the foresight to see potential shortcomings of his own design and designed a perfect system by accident?

And finally, why do you suppose Bitcoin and Gold shouldn't coexist in the coming years?

[miscreanity]

I think "not motivated enough" hits the nail on the head.

I believe the post stated that he found free WiFi connections, but was having difficulty getting the software to perform a transaction.

[miscreanity]

Guess what's rallying while something else is dropping? I think that, based on this one-day move, I'll start a thread titled:

"Dollar failing, gold UP"

[silverbox]

Guess what's rallying while something else is dropping? I think that, based on this one-day move, I'll start a thread titled:

"Dollar failing, gold UP"

[molecular]

ElectricMucus, let me try to alleviate your mind's boggledness:

(bolding mine for speed-readers)

The concentrated delusion in this thread is mind-boggling.  

I ask you this: How do you account for Golds uniqueness, that is it's natural scarcity and it's practical use based upon it's physical properties.

while silver is less scarce (while it's supply is probably equally known, which is really the decisive factor), its practical use is even higher than golds. Gold is not unique, it's just that people decided to use it instead of platinum, copper or silver.

Do you really think that Bitcoin will never be replaced by some similar, more advanced technology?

I'm not sure I want to agree that bitcoin is less unique than gold: It would be hard for an altcoin to get even a low percentage of people to switch (assuming similar tech). The network effect advantage for bitcoin is huge and should new technological developments improve the system ("proof of stake" is the best-looking candidate in my mind currently, but too early to tell) then this tech can be incorporated into bitcoin. If the danger of PPCoin taking the lead is big enough, bitcoiners will import the new tech.

So I'm not really sure, but one could argue that all cryptographic money is in the end: bitcoin. Didn't I hear cypherdoc say something like: "there can only be one big cahuna"? It was in a different context, but maybe it's applicable in the subspace of cryptographic money?

Do you really think in the case of the possible compromise of it's security people would stick to Bitcoin instead of switching to something else which already uses different algorithms?

as argued above, bitcoin would switch its implementation. A hard-fork is not as hard as some think it might be. Only a couple of big-shots (who all know each other) need to get together to make it happen over night.

To remind you: Satoshi intended Bitcoin to be "an experiment" and possible provide freedom for "a few years". That are his words, so the things you attribute to Bitcoin is something that it wasn't intended to be.

To be honest: Satoshis original intentions are irrelevant at this point. He probably didn't even think bitcoin would come this far. It's his baby but he has given it away intentionally.

At last: Do you think Satoshi lacked the foresight to see potential shortcomings of his own design and designed a perfect system by accident?

No he didn't. That's part of the reason why he made it opensource community-driven... so it can adapt.

And finally, why do you suppose Bitcoin and Gold shouldn't coexist in the coming years?

I know this will be disputed by others, but I think they will... for quite some time (at least 2 generations)

[labestiol]

while silver is less scarce (while it's supply is probably equally known, which is really the decisive factor), its practical use is even higher than golds. Gold is not unique, it's just that people decided to use it instead of platinum, copper or silver.

Gold is unique, as is any other elements. People choose gold because it didn't rust (contrary to silver & copper) and because it was still quite available (contrary to platinum & palladium). In that sense, gold as some characteristics that made it more desirable.
And btw, I'm not saying silver is a worse investment right now. I'm mostly long silver in PMs. To me what makes it a good bet right now is function of his (low) price compared to his properties.

[silverbox]

GPL and gold did pretty swell today.

[thirdchance57]

It's easier to grasp an idea when you already have the building blocks.

yes, but this is America.  WE are the building blocks of the world.  or is it the blockheads of the world?

Forget the blocks, I think it's gone schizophrenic

Doesn't matter - this is all the world needs.

Update:
This might be virtual Armaggedon -
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/threat-spectacular-cyberattack-looms-official-185505164.html

propaganda like this really piss me off!!!!! it makes me so furious!!
please go flame rosenbach's here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgAQC1PGDlE

bitcoin > gold for the coming age (minus any Armageddon scenarios)  but....
it has some minor problems holding it back.
we have many years before the propagandized baby boomers are out of the way. they believe the crap rosenbach spews oout of his pie hole.

also we have the older gens that aren't tech savvy.
I went to my local pawnshop today to show the owner a casacius. he couldnt comprehend it. all he could say is "i dont even know how to turn on a computer". and he understands the paper ponzi we live in is a big fraud.

we wont see gold collapse, but we will see a continued bullish trend for btc as the older gen's gold meme slowly fade away, the younger gen will embrace btc for its future convenience. even though they dont understand they political advantages. like now kids just wanna swipe their card and go.

i'm going out on a limb here.
i really dont think government legislation will be the biggest hurdle because......businesses are already embracing btc: big pharma, wordpress.com, and others i dont know about (minus finance industry). governemt today is really just an extension of power business interest's. business will take advantage of the tax safe haven btc offers and lobby to keep it a safe haven.

I think the biggest hurdle is another greater technology that will challenge btc.
face it the gold meme will fade over the coming decades, like it has before.    i own physical gold btw.

[Werner]

for now is silver good invest?

[thirdchance57]

for now is silver good invest?

long term i believe because of the industrial uses. it will keep pace with inflation and we should see a spike when the paper ponzi ends. hold physical dont let somebody sell you paper silver. people have already been frauded out of paper claims in the billions of dollars (mf global).

but silver is cheap to mine so dont let people tell you its going to $500 per oz. anytime soon.

silver and btc ftw

[silverbox]

That damn gold is collapsing upwards again!!

[adamstgBit]

its ineradicable they flood the market with fake gold bars and still the damn thing goes up

[molecular]

its ineradicable they flood the market with fake gold bars and still the damn thing goes up

lol

and: thanks for teaching me some vocabulary.

[miscreanity]

its ineradicable they flood the market with fake gold bars and still the damn thing goes up

Of course.

First, the market isn't being 'flooded' with fake bars. Second, the more expensive it becomes to verify validity, the higher the end cost will rise.

Several thousand years of fundamental familiarity cannot be dispelled by paper chicanery.

So what happened to the dollar? It doesn't look so well...

[adamstgBit]

   crazy gold bugs  

Of course the market is being  'flooded' with fake bars....

i kid  

it only happens sometimes

[cypherdoc]

cypher's new gold meme:  "I will grind you down".

[miscreanity]

cypher's new gold meme:  "I will grind you down".

Your grinder is broken.

[notme]

cypher's new gold meme:  "I will grind you down".

Your grinder is broken.

It seems to be working fine today.

[tvbcof]

cypher's new gold meme:  "I will grind you down".

Trouble is, you are kind of grinding us goldbugs 'up' in the 'upward collapse' of valuations.  I'll agree that gold has been in a grind for longer than I expected before the next major leg...not that it has been impacted by your statements however.

Unfortunately BTC also has been in what I consider to be a 'grind' albeit punctuated by an occasional exciting price move.  As you know, my expectations for volatility in Bitcoin are vastly higher than for gold/silver, and my qualifications for 'success' of this speculation are at least an order of magnitude higher than what we've 'grinded' along to at by this point, and indeed, more like several orders of magnitude.  That's my reward for speculation in an unproven technology.

I'm a fairly patient person when it comes to both my gold 'investo-savings' and my BTC 'speculation' (and silver 'invest-o-specul-o-savings') and expect to wait many more years for results.  Actually, I'll probably have little choice unless I want to set up a business venture or something like that.