[XMR] Monero Speculation

[ArticMine]

@ArticMine to be clear you are disagreeing only with my first sentence. The rest about third party solutions specializing for different markets applies equally to the older segment given what you have suggested about their preferences. For example, they might like Trezor or other hardware wallets.

My point is that even now (with few grandmas involved) MyMonero does not serve as a good baseline solution, it is specialized to those who want convenience and don't care much about security or avoiding reliance on third parties. I could also say that about a GUI based on the earlier (pre-LMDB) implementation. Since the current version can cold sync in a lot of cases (not all -- older or slower computers or very slow net connections can't be avoided) in an hour or so, uses minimal memory and acceptable amounts of storage, it is more suitable for more segments of users (if not numerically more users), though still not everyone.

Yes my disagreement is with your first sentence. I do agree that the appeal of MyMonero is strongest for low memory, storage, bandwidth etc. situations.

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[Johnny Mnemonic]

I doubt Grandma will ever run her own node, regardless of GUI. In the CryptoFuture, I imagine Grandma will use a third-party solution specifically designed for grandmas   EDIT: or she will just enter her PIN at the register after the point-of-sale machine connects to her NFC powered keyring wallet. No GUI required.

First off grandma and most anyone else that will use crypto could care less about running a node. Logical fallacy (Straw Man) there.

That's exactly my point, and it's not a logical fallacy. You don't need the core software unless you want to run your own node. So why does grandma need a core GUI?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

My point is that even now (with few grandmas involved) MyMonero does not serve as a good baseline solution, it is specialized to those who want convenience and don't care much about security or avoiding reliance on third parties. I could also say that about a GUI based on the earlier (pre-LMDB) implementation. Since the current version can cold sync in a lot of cases (not all -- older or slower computers or very slow net connections can't be avoided) in an hour or so, uses minimal memory and acceptable amounts of storage, it is more suitable for more segments of users (if not numerically more users), though still not everyone.

I agree MyMonero is not a good baseline solution, but I don't agree that a core GUI is any "better." The trade-offs don't fit the needs of a "general user" who needs a reasonable amount of security and a much greater level of convenience.

I suppose our definitions of "general user" differ, but I don't ever see general users running their own node to make transactions.

- General users will never "be their own bank" (because they don't trust themselves to secure their entire savings, and they shouldn't)
- General users only need as much security as their physical leather wallet provides, as its just their spending money
- General users value convenience over just about everything else

[iCEBREAKER]

Gui will help adoption period there are no arguments that are sound against that.

I disagree completely. There are plenty of reasonable arguments against that, the biggest of which is that a bundled GUI will do nothing to attract adoption outside of the cryptosphere, and almost everyone inside the cryptosphere is already aware of Monero and can use it if they want to.

I'm afraid I can't agree. It will help facilitate that adoption by giving people (including people outside the cryptosphere) something to download that is easier to use. Without that such efforts face a very uphill battle. You could possibly reach beyond the cryptposhere to other sys admis, software developers, etc. who are comfortable with command line tool, but that's a narrow market with little obvious attraction to alternative monetary systems.

A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

True for by itself but it is a necessary component of efforts to reach wider.

A GUI by itself will do little for adoption.

What will?

Nothing will, by itself. There are many pieces that need to fit together, GUI being one of them.

The Official GUI won't really change (except as a reaction to the Good News) the fat part of XMR's distribution, BUT it may lengthen the long thin tail of small Hodlors behind the Pareto-spec'd ~20% of whales.

[Days]

Reality is "I believe" the so called Monero developers intentionally postponed releasing a GUI wallet because if they release it to the public then what's next?! they are not high level Cyrpto coders in Monero team.

Milking people out with "ONCE GUI WALLET COMES THIS COIN WILL BE WORTH AT LEAST X10 IT IS NOW" if you think about it imagine Monero has a GUI wallet released months ago their price would be even lower now because there is nothing else but big fixing/ gambling website/ and forum developers/gangsters "SMOOTH"

They keep their name up by messing with real developers work in these forums, reddit, and even when articles is been written by cyrpto websites you will see them spreading negativity in the comments. It is truly a sad coin


P.S like really who can't develop a GUI as a crypto developer for two years? gambling websites & price bouncing is not enough already?!

[birr]

Harshing my mellow!

[rpietila]

P.S like really who can't develop a GUI as a crypto developer for two years? gambling websites & price bouncing is not enough already?!

If it is piece of cake, what prohibits you to make another one to the long list of existing Monero GUI's ??

I heard you can make one over the weekend. But then what? It is a lifelong commitment to the piece of software, 24/7 technical support, no salary.

If the devteam does not have the resources to do it now, perhaps you should? If you have critique on their priorities, you have many friends (or perhaps socks).

[iCEBREAKER]

BUT it may lengthen the long thin tail of small Hodlors behind the Pareto-spec'd ~20% of whales.

Can you elaborate on this?  I understand long thin tails but not the rest.  What do you consider the minimum level of hodlings to qualify as a whale?

Assuming XMR follows Pareto's ~80/20 distribution, we'd expect the fat part of the distribution curve at the front representing whales, with a long thin distribution at the end representing small holders.

As the GUI lowers the barrier to entry, I speculate the long thin part will gain more than the short fat bit, because the higher barriers aren't as much of an issue for the smart/rich whales (and I believe whales tend to get into these kinds of projects early, long before Official GUI type stuff).

If we define whale as a second-order (top 20% of the top 20%) Pareto distribution holder, we still need an estimate of how many users exist to calculate an exact qualifying number.

Or we could say a whale is defined by the ability to make an outsize splash in the markets, IE significantly move the price in either direction regardless of overall market sentiment.

How about 1%?  It does sound a little too "Occupy" for my taste, but it gives us a convenient minimum of 120,000 XMR and there can at maximum only be 100 of them.   

[smooth]

I suppose our definitions of "general user" differ, but I don't ever see general users running their own node to make transactions.

- General users will never "be their own bank" (because they don't trust themselves to secure their entire savings, and they shouldn't)
- General users only need as much security as their physical leather wallet provides, as its just their spending money
- General users value convenience over just about everything else

I'm pretty sure I explained this earlier.

"General user" as I used it above does not mean "mainstream consumer" or anything of the sort (at least not short term, as such people are far, far away from wanting any crypto at all right now). It means proving an acceptable, usable solution for a wide variety of user types, including people who want to be their own bank, and also those who want to actually benefit from the financial privacy that Monero can give them. That means, almost if not absolutely unavoidably, running their own node. If they don't want a private store or value, private medium of exchange, etc. they likely not be interested in Monero and will just go with Bitcoin (or cc/Paypal/etc.)

[smooth]

Reality is "I believe" the so called Monero developers intentionally postponed releasing a GUI wallet because if they release it to the public then what's next?!

Maybe RingCT or other high level cryptography? Or maybe some of this other stuff.

Why don't you give that RingCT paper I just linked for you a read in your spare time? There is going to be a quiz.

they are not high level Cyrpto coders in Monero team.

Kindly, and in your own words, summarize the important sections of the above paper and point out some logical extensions and directions for further research in order to verify your qualifications to make that assessment.

gambling websites

What is your obsession with gambling websites? I'm actually quite curious about this because you and the other anti-Monero socks bring it up a lot, Is it a biblical thing for you or what?

[owm123]

Onion Monero Blockchain Explorer

The key features of the Onion Monero Blockchain Explorer are

 - available as a hidden service,
 - no javascript, no web analytics trackers, no images,
 - open sourced,
 - made fully in C++,
 - the only explorer showing encrypted payments ID,
 - the only explorer with the ability to search by encrypted payments ID, tx public keys, outputs public keys, input key images, output amount index and its amount,
- the only explorer showing ring signatures,
- the only explorer that can show which outputs belong to the given Monero address and viewkey,
- the only explorer showing detailed information about mixins, such as, mixins' age, timescale, mixin of mixins,
- the only explorer showing number of amount output indices.

https://github.com/moneroexamples/onion-monero-blockchain-explorer

Tor users:

 - http://xmrblocksvckbwvx.onion

Non tor users, can try tor proxy, e.g.,

- http://xmrblocksvckbwvx.onion.to

Comments welcome here or on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4ld0j3/did_you_know_that_monero_has_a_onion_blockchain/

[Chicken76]

Guys, what happened the last couple of days with bitcoin that prompted such a sharp rise in price? The rise was only shared by litecoin. Was there anything implemented recently by these two coins that increased their value?

[medusa13]

bitcoin did break out off its multi month ascending triangle (holy triangle). looking at the weekly chart, a bubble seems possible, depends ofc on other factors too, but bitcoin volatility has been historically low.

xmr holds quite nicely recarding all this

personally i also think that the gui is important, especially to grow userbase with small holders.

[iCEBREAKER]

Guys, what happened the last couple of days with bitcoin that prompted such a sharp rise in price? The rise was only shared by litecoin. Was there anything implemented recently by these two coins that increased their value?

The USD index crashed.  Something about Helicopter Janet and NIRP....

Gold and silver spiked, with blue chip miners like Hecla, New Gold, Agnico, Detour, and Pretium reaching 52 week highs.

BTC has been stable for a very long time, forming a massive foundation on which to build up.

The second block subsidy halving is ~37 days away.

Classic is #REKT, and Bitcoin is an unmatchable powerhouse of development with plans for true scaling well underway.

Litecoin is next in line to benefit from any new tech they want from it.

There is a huge wave of ICO/IPOs that require BTC for participation.

The same thing happened when Bitcoin securities were all the rage.

Monero is extremely oversold.

We just put in a double bottom at 170k.

Time to start slowly building a leveraged long position, with an average cost well under 180k.

When the MAID/DAO/etc bubbles burst, there will be plenty of money sloshing around on Polo, looking for a new home with a firmer technology base.

[nioc]

Litecoin adds things?

Leverage 

[pönde]

Is there on bitcointalk any thread for discussion of the global monetary system and of the people who are running it? Sorry for slightly of topic question, but I has to ask it somewhere.

[levinhostar]

They said we will never see 0.0018 again   


But here it is. Pump & Dump as every other altcoin.

[generalizethis]

They said we will never see 0.0018 again   


But here it is. Pump & Dump as every other altcoin.

Who are they? And what length is the basis of your observation?

"It is not the strength, but the duration, of great sentiments that makes great men."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

They said we will never see 0.0018 again   


But here it is. Pump & Dump as every other altcoin.

Who are they? And what length is the basis of your observation?

"It is not the strength, but the duration, of great sentiments that makes great men."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

If you experience a great sentiment lasting more than four hours, see a doctor. 

[Viecoin]

They said we will never see 0.0018 again   


But here it is. Pump & Dump as every other altcoin.

Who are they? And what length is the basis of your observation?

"It is not the strength, but the duration, of great sentiments that makes great men."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

If you experience a great sentiment lasting more than four hours, see a doctor. 

I hope Monero stays this low just a little longer. Privacy is so important!!