IOTA - Unmoderated thread

[runall]

AltcoinUK, I suggest you focus on the message of why you think JINN labs is so unrealistic. And I also think you can refer to my decentralization thread for why (I think) Iota leads to centralization. Those seem to be strong arguments in your favor.

I think if you continue to assert the scam accusation and attack every aspect of Iota as entirely worthless, then you will lose credibility even IF you end up being correct about its ultimate failure. Those arguments appear to readers as vindictive.

But of course I can't tell you what to do. And perhaps I am mistaken about perceptions (but I doubt it).

I support your ethics and I also support your sober analysis of potential markets. I am just hoping you don't let CfB's ribbing incite you to turn it into a vendetta, which will then lower your own credibility. I know it is difficult in the heat of the moment, but try to think about that you can't protect every speculator from everything nor is that your role.

Balance.

I am of course not saying you do, just to explain my motives, IMHO we can't say a P&D scam can be justified, just because something useful will be produced during the P&D scam. It is like one would argue that Auschwitz was not all evil because some medical research was derived from the experiments of those Nazis. No, Auschwitz and the Holocaust was evil, even if some innovation was produced there. IMHO there are clear boundaries exist for moral and ethics.

The bottom line is we need ethical projects - like hopefully yours will be - to take the decentralized crypto currency idea to the mass, and money collecting, P&D operations like JINN and IOTA are hurtful for the decentralized crypto currency idea.

this is a complete fucking insanity to compare the development of revolutionary technologies with Holocaust

I have not heard a delusional arguments and comparisons.

It looks like this guy really loves BDSM and far from understanding the real thing. All his chatter, there is one lie.

[TPTB_need_war]

this is a complete fucking insanity to compare the development of revolutionary technologies with Holocaust

I have not heard a delusional arguments and comparisons.

It looks like this guy really loves BDSM and far from understanding the real thing. All his chatter, there is one lie.

He is making that stark analogy because he believes JINN is a scam and he believes scams are destructive to the crypto landscape.

The "reality denial" and 'BDSM' attacks are vindictive, not factual, and lowering the credibility of those who issued them.

This is not an appeal to authority, but rather a discussion of ideas. Those who attack individuals who raise strong ideas are weak on strong ideas.

I agree with AltcoinUK that the only way to monetize quantum resistance at this time is probably selling it to speculators. I don't think there are any adoption markets that care enough yet. Perhaps not absolutely true, but seems roughly correct.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I agree with AltcoinUK...

You seem to be the only person who takes his words seriously at this stage.

[runall]

this is a complete fucking insanity to compare the development of revolutionary technologies with Holocaust

I have not heard a delusional arguments and comparisons.

It looks like this guy really loves BDSM and far from understanding the real thing. All his chatter, there is one lie.

He is making that stark analogy because he believes JINN is a scam and he believes scams are destructive to the crypto landscape.

The "reality denial" and 'BDSM' attacks are vindictive, not factual, and lowering the credibility of those who issued them.

This is not an appeal to authority, but rather a discussion of ideas. Those who attack individuals who raise strong ideas are weak on strong ideas.

I agree with AltcoinUK that the only way to monetize quantum resistance at this time is probably selling it to speculators. I don't think there are any adoption markets that care enough yet. Perhaps not absolutely true, but seems roughly correct.

"Lowering the credibility" only for those who are blatantly lying and says black on white and those who believe in a baseless lie.

I was not disappointed in Jinn. But I do not have thousands of them. The devs are working, I know it and there is also good results.

[AltcoinScamfinder]

I got you ...

I understand like all scammers do, you like to ignore the most important questions about your genius business plan, but the question remains the same. Just like with NXT where the first few realized a very nice ROI, but now there are thousands of bagholders who bought into the hype, now you are mirroring the process with JINN and IOTA, which process will naturally create many disappointed bagholders and more importantly financial loss for many. The difference is that at least NXT is a serious ecosystem terms of features - not because of you but despite you and it is used by nobody in the real world but that is another matter - while JINN and IOTA will never ever deliver anything else than your few pathetic java source files. It will be no JINN microprocessor - you failed to deliver that already. And there will be no IoT business - you have no skill and prospect to deliver that. So what about the inevitable bagholders who will buy into the hype of your army of sockpuppets, shills and cheerleaders?

Again, considering the shitcoins you pump and dump, maybe you should stop wasting money on dogs like reboots of scams and just take your meds. We already understand that you are loser in life and crypto. No need to show up and embarrass yourself.

[criptix]

you ppl know what they say about blind chickens?

altcoinuk is just a serial lier and idiot.

btw. there is a lot of interest in quantum resistant encryption:

https://www.nsa.gov/ia/programs/suiteb_cryptography/

[TPTB_need_war]

btw. there is a lot of interest in quantum resistant encryption:

https://www.nsa.gov/ia/programs/suiteb_cryptography/

That is not an adoption market.

I agree it is possible to sell a P&D (no adoption) about quantum resistance to speculators.

[criptix]

btw. there is a lot of interest in quantum resistant encryption:

https://www.nsa.gov/ia/programs/suiteb_cryptography/

That is not an adoption market.

can you elaborate why?

to me it seems the nsa is pushing us companies strongly for a transition.

[TPTB_need_war]

btw. there is a lot of interest in quantum resistant encryption:

https://www.nsa.gov/ia/programs/suiteb_cryptography/

That is not an adoption market.

can you elaborate why?

to me it seems the nsa is pushing us companies strongly for a transition.

That most of the world can't even look forward more than 1 quarter of a year (read upthread too for more context), should be indicative of the near-term priorities of corporations.

And the masses have no clue about this.

[LitcoinCollector]

AltcoinUK, I suggest you focus on the message of why you think JINN labs is so unrealistic. And I also think you can refer to my decentralization thread for why (I think) Iota leads to centralization. Those seem to be strong arguments in your favor.

I think if you continue to assert the scam accusation and attack every aspect of Iota as entirely worthless, then you will lose credibility even IF you end up being correct about its ultimate failure. Those arguments appear to readers as vindictive.

But of course I can't tell you what to do. And perhaps I am mistaken about perceptions (but I doubt it).

I support your ethics and I also support your sober analysis of potential markets. I am just hoping you don't let CfB's ribbing incite you to turn it into a vendetta, which will then lower your own credibility. I know it is difficult in the heat of the moment, but try to think about that you can't protect every speculator from everything nor is that your role.

Balance.

I am of course not saying you do, just to explain my motives, IMHO we can't say a P&D scam can be justified, just because something useful will be produced during the P&D scam. It is like one would argue that Auschwitz was not all evil because some medical research was derived from the experiments of those Nazis. No, Auschwitz and the Holocaust was evil, even if some innovation was produced there. IMHO there are clear boundaries exist for moral and ethics.

The bottom line is we need ethical projects - like hopefully yours will be - to take the decentralized crypto currency idea to the mass, and money collecting, P&D operations like JINN and IOTA are hurtful for the decentralized crypto currency idea.

Don' t compare a hardware/software project with Auschwitz in any shape or form, it is very disrespectfull. You should be ashamed of yourself, same goes for tptb in approving this behaviour.

I'm all for an open discussion, but stick to the facts and provide proof.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Well, guys, looks like we can jump straight to resume:

(In alphabetical order)

AltcoinUK, stop pulling lies out of your damaged brain, reality denial is so strong in your case that I don't doubt that your brain is damaged. Visit a doctor, now I feel that I went too hard on you, with 99% chance you are not responsible for your deeds and posts. If you want to continue talking to me then, please, provide a scanned document that you are mentally healthy. Without such the document I can't continue talking to you.

Blocktree, sorry, I didn't see what you posted, I put you on ignore after you failed to prove your lies (just like AltcoinUK). I hope those post were more sane than in the beginning of your carrier, at least as sane as during your Emule period. Anyway I'm not going to unignore you, you had only one chance.

CIYAM, I believe you are still a skilled engineer, such skills can't be lost no matter what habits you have. You have not much time left to realize your plans, spend this time wisely.

TPTB_need_war, I'm watching your threads with interest, I believe we'll cross our paths again.

All the others, this thread revealed real faces of some guys from the list above but failed to discuss Iota, I suggest you to create another unmoderated thread. See you.

[altcoinUK]

CIYAM,tell us more truth about this idot.

I think, CIYAM very wisely couldn't care less about the nonsenses of this low life Belarusian scammer nor CIYAM is concerned about the personal attacks of the IOTA shill/sockpuppets brigade. I guess you will get over the trauma as well that this scammer put you on ignore LoL

[altcoinUK]

Anyway, it says a lot about the scam brigade, how the desperate IOTA shills and sockpuppets attack CIYAM. CIYAM is a respected developer, but the shills and sockpuppets - to support the Belarusian's scam - bring up all kind of personal attacks to discredit him. Nothing, new here. We saw during the Moolah, Bitbay, etc. scams that the "investors" (and of course their sockpuppets) are getting desperate while trying to keep the scam going.

[altcoinUK]

because he believes JINN is a scam and he believes scams are destructive to the crypto landscape.

Absolutely. There is no significant improvement and consequently there is no breakthrough in microprocessor design in the last 25 years. All major instruction sets (RISC, CISC, EDGE, EPIC, MISC, etc) has been around for a while and the combined over US$ 10 billion per year R&D budget of Intel, AMD, Samsung, Motorola, TI and IBM couldn't produce any new architectural microprocessor design in the last 20-30 years. Despite the most brilliant engineers and scientist are employed by those R&D departments there is no manufacturable breakthrough whatsoever. And then comes a 24 years old boy from Scandinavia with absolutely zero experience nor academic background in the sector and a java developer from Belarus. These two only achievement so far is the NXT scam which added absolutely nothing to Satoshi's decentralized idea. All experience they have is the "successful" money collecting party of NXT which yield a very nice "ROI" for the first few and created an army of bagholders at the end of the chain (like all scam does). These two (again with zero experience in the most difficult field of technology) announce that they will deliver a revolutionary, disruptive, asynchronous microprocessor design. They announce this on a Bitcoin talk forum to collect money from a few idiots who due to lack of experience and common sense in fact "invested" in these two scammers by believing that these two will create and sell a new microprocessor and then pay dividends. Now, if you see this in the Silicon Valley TV comedy then this is a hilariously funny story, but these two actually pulled out this scam with real people's real money.

It took 5 years for ATMEL using their unlimited financial power to get started the open source Arduino platform. The project cost a fortune for ATMEL so far. The 24 years old entrepreneur plus the java developer who hides in some Belarus basement in order to succeed essentially would have to be able to replicate that Arduino process/success with JINN, but not even on the hardware development platform (what Arduino is), but in the most difficult microprocessor domain. How realistic is that? Last time Intel could trigger such radical paradigm change with the x86 processor was back in the 80-s. There is precisely zero chance that the a java developer who is hiding in Belarus and a 24 years old boy (both of them have zero experience in the field) can replicate the success of Intel with a novel microporcessor project. Anybody who has anything to do with electronic engineering, hardware business and manufacturing understand this.

Now, they collect money for IOTA saying that the money goes to the JINN process. Of course that is nothing but a blatant scam. The JINN project is unrealistic (see above), they know that very well, therefore IOTA is nothing but a pathetic P&D operation to deliver some nice ROI to the greedy idiots who bought into the project. Note, since nothing business-worthy will be delivered the only way to create ROI is to find new idiots who will buy into the P&D. A classic scam, - we saw it many times over the last 3-4 years - and indeed very destructive to the crypto currency movement.

[altcoinUK]

And the masses have no clue about this.

That's why the scams could be successful, because a) the "investors" have no clue b) the "investors" understand the zero business feasibility of the projects like in the case JINN and IOTA, but couldn't care less as they hope some noobs, naive and uninformed users will buy into their P&D.

And that's why projects like NEM or CIYAM's project or your project which all try to find a real world and feasible use case for crypto are very important. Without a realistic use case - which I know you are trying to identify -  a project will only create controversy, bad press and disappointed bagholders.

[VultureFund]

A short message for altcoin UK

EMPATHY

Do you know the meaning of that word? I seriously doubt it. Empathy is the base of all possible ethics.

Have you tried, just for a minute, to put yourself in the situation of these guys who are creating IOTA, specially the belarussian guy you call 3 times a post? (typical UK racism and arrogance, you'll never learn...).

Now, put yourself in their skin: You have created IOTA (SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND INNOVATIVE), and now you have to distribute the tokens. HEY, REMEMBER THAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING HARD ON THIS, THIS IS NOT A COPY-PASTE OF ONE WORKING AFTERNOON.

Be sincere, what would you do? You would distribute the tokens and YOUR CREATION for free to everyone interested, right??

ICO's are the most fair distibution method here. ICO's allow EVERYONE to participate, geeks/ not geeks, white people/ black people, UK people/ rest of the world people, MINERS /NOT MINERS ...

And yes, it's true that ICO's allow and facilitate P&D schemes, but think about it a minute man: MOSTLY, WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE GETS HURT IN P&D SCHEMES?

Think about it ethically (if you have some kind of that), and stop saying shit about good people. YEAH, GOOD PEOPLE, EVEN IF WE DO SOME "BAD" THINGS.

[altcoinUK]

Empathy is the base of all possible ethics.

No. The empathy regarding to the scam projects is the recipe to bring even more disasters to the crypto currency idea.
 

Now, put yourself in their skin: You have created IOTA (SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND INNOVATIVE), and now you have to distribute the tokens ... Be sincere, what would you do? You would distribute the tokens and YOUR CREATION for free to everyone interested, right??

Please be reasonable and don't ask me to put myself in the skin of low life scammers like the Belarusian java developer or the Scandinavian boy, but yes, if I think about such scenario then since I am all for the libertarian decentralized crypto currency idea, I would release my work for free of charge (just like many in the crypto domain did), and if I would really need this type of revenue then I would try to monetize on the ethical and free software.

created IOTA (SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND INNOVATIVE)

In fact they have not created IOTA yet. They lied that they have been working on it for a year. They mislead their "investors" (again just like they did in the JINN project) that IOTA will be released by Christmas ... of course nothing was released by Christmas (just like there has been nothing created in the JINN project up to date). The bonus is, they promised an Internet of Things system and business, but they haven't even started to write the IoT system nor they have the skill and experience to do so. It rings me a bell of the Bitbay scam: Bitbay started to market the scam that "one of the main features" is an IoT system ... which feature was forgotten a long time ago. Not that the "investors" care about the IoT system at all - they are in the process to realize that dream ROI during the P&D.
(Lets don't even mention the poor quality java code the Belarusian produced so far. No comments, absolutely shockingly poor error and exception handling ... such shamble wouldn't even be accepted from a junior developer on his very first code review. Your lead developer doesn't even have the professional pride and he releases such collection of shit, because he knows it is a P&D and doesn't matter what he releases nor matters the quality of code. CIYAM is absolutely right: he is not even a fairly good developer, he can sell his mediocre skills only to the idiots in this surreal toxic microcosmos whom know nothing about software development and care only about the "ROI").

MOSTLY, WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE GETS HURT IN P&D SCHEMES?

So are you saying you can scam uninformed and naive people, that's what you mean? I fully understand that is the mentality of all P&D scams that you deliver a life time lesson for noobs and naive people by stealing their money, but are you seriously using this as a moral argument or are you just trolling?

[VultureFund]

So are you saying you can scam uninformed and naive people, that's what you mean? I fully understand that is the mentality of all P&D scams that you deliver a life time lesson for noobs and naive people by stealing their money, but are you seriously using this as a moral argument or are you just trolling?

Again, I have to ask you for emphaty.

Which moral rules would you have, if you were a clever, responsible and ambitious guy, but you were born in a marginal environment? What whould be your feelings when you see some shitty idiots throwing away their money, throwing away food, while you're working hard for a fucking pennies to just help your family to SURVIVE? And all, because you just don't have the possiblity to enter to the fucking educational system!

Believe me, your moral convinctions would change radically.

That was my life until 3 years ago, when finally I had the possiblity to escape from that shit. And yes, am very proud to say this, even if you consider it as a crazy moral argument: CLEVER PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IGNORANT PEOPLE. GOOD CLEVER PEOPLE MUST HELP IGNORANTS TO ESCAPE FROM IT. BUT NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, AN IGNORANT CAN HAVE MORE POWER THAN A CLEVER PERSON


It's very easy to preach the good moral from a comfortable place man...

[Blocktree]

Anyway, it says a lot about the scam brigade, how the desperate IOTA shills and sockpuppets attack CIYAM. CIYAM is a respected developer, but the shills and sockpuppets - to support the Belarusian's scam - bring up all kind of personal attacks to discredit him. Nothing, new here. We saw during the Moolah, Bitbay, etc. scams that the "investors" (and of course their sockpuppets) are getting desperate while trying to keep the scam going.

Think about 73 sockpuppets for SCAM NXT!
Same for SCAM IOTA!

[barabbas]

So are you saying you can scam uninformed and naive people, that's what you mean? I fully understand that is the mentality of all P&D scams that you deliver a life time lesson for noobs and naive people by stealing their money, but are you seriously using this as a moral argument or are you just trolling?

Again, I have to ask you for emphaty.

Which moral rules would you have, if you were a clever, responsible and ambitious guy, but you were born in a marginal environment? What whould be your feelings when you see some shitty idiots throwing away their money, throwing away food, while you're working hard for a fucking pennies to just help your family to SURVIVE? And all, because you just don't have the possiblity to enter to the fucking educational system!

Believe me, your moral convinctions would change radically.

That was my life until 3 years ago, when finally I had the possiblity to escape from that shit. And yes, am very proud to say this, even if you consider it as a crazy moral argument: CLEVER PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IGNORANT PEOPLE. GOOD CLEVER PEOPLE MUST HELP IGNORANTS TO ESCAPE FROM IT. BUT NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, AN IGNORANT CAN HAVE MORE POWER THAN A CLEVER PERSON


It's very easy to preach the good moral from a comfortable place man...

Wow. I had to read this twice...

You should be shot on sight like the rabid dog that you are.

A.mazing.