IOTA - Unmoderated thread

[cryptohunter]

Come now YES or NO?? let's bring the board in on this discussion in the main section??

NO, it's waste of time.

Really??? NO??

It's a waste of time to demonstrate that IOTA's ICO was not a deliberate captive insta-ico like NXT?

We can compare it to other ICO's that have taken place on the board.

How about if we compare to say

Ethereum?
NEM
even dare I say BITBAY?

LISK?

come on surely you CFB can demostrate how IOTA was equal or at least no more of a scheme/scam/non scam than those?

Let's for instance analyse every single one of them and how the ICO was conducted and make a fair comparison. I mean you can't be expected to conduct a perfect ICO but surely you are at least equal to or better than these ones?

We can analyse the facts only. There will be no room for opinion only fair comparison. We can run polls for awareness for all of those other projects and see if the awarness for IOTA was within a reasonable range.

I only wish to analyse this this is not like the Dash investigation where the evidence was clearly and openly damning from the outset.

You do not wish for fair analysis of your ICO on the main board in the open for all to see and judge objectively? YES or NO?

[cryptohunter]

@cryptohunter:
You contradict yourself. You say that the ICO was not transparent, because "Even if there were a list with every username that invested and the amount invested (has been done for other ICO and is a huge improvement over IOTAS) then you can call into question the persons behind each account."

But then you demand to ask the board if iota is a scam or not... without calling into question the persons behind each account? Then such a poll would be useless.

Well you are assuming the % of puppets on this board must be huge in that case. I do not think it is reasonable to think the % of puppets can statistically render a long running poll on the main board totally useless. However it is reasonable to assume enough puppets to drastically reduce a distribution of a very small ICO.

If you could limit a poll to snr or above it would be better.

I only said that an ICO that publishes its investors usernames on a list is more transparent that one that does not publish anything? If 100 legends and 1000 heros were on the list with their amount invested and those accounts confirmed such was true I would personally have more faith than a list that just stated we have 1100 investors from the board with no further details. Are you saying you would not?

Of your you may get a person that assumes there are only 2 members on the board himself and 10000's of puppets run by one other person. He will have a different perception of fair distribution on the board than others.

You need to involve large numbers of accounts to get a reasonable and statistically viable feedback.

Let's discuss it on the main section. Perhaps more people will see it from your POV there?

[runall]

@cryptohunter:

Hey dude, all you are doing here is only verbal diarrhea and promotion for another project. You're just afraid.

Who are you to put the project Iota its own rules? Scam for you are all projects where you do not participate. Stop envying.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Really??? NO??

Ever heard of Sybil attack?

[coldmoldy]

@cryptohunter, How much time should an ICO spend marketing itself before the actual ICO?

IOTA was announced on October 21, 2015. The crowdsale was opened on November 25th, 2015 and lasted until December 21st, 2015.

If I recall correctly (and I do), there were multiple threads about iota on bitcointalk and there were also several articles published on the main crypto websites.

You even posted on the iota thread before the crowdsale:

quantum computer proof does sound handy and I very much like the name.

So that's an entire month of publicity before the crowdsale. As well as an entire month of publicity during the month-long crowdsale.

So what more can you ask for?? You knew about iota before the crowdsale, so it's a shame you didn't buy in.

[runall]

Well you are assuming the % of puppets on this board must be huge in that case.

puppets??

Dude are you also paranoid with these puppets?

Come on, if you mean all except you are not real the I can say also: you are my puppet.

All who disagree with you are sockpuppet? Yeah sure 

[runall]

@cryptohunter, How much time should an ICO spend marketing itself before the actual ICO?

IOTA was announced on October 21, 2015. The crowdsale was opened on November 25th, 2015 and lasted until December 21st, 2015.

If I recall correctly (and I do), there were multiple threads about iota on bitcointalk and there were also several articles published on the main crypto websites.

You even posted on the iota thread before the crowdsale:

quantum computer proof does sound handy and I very much like the name.

So that's an entire month of publicity before the crowdsale. As well as an entire month of publicity during the month-long crowdsale.

So what more can you ask for?? You knew about iota before the crowdsale, so it's a shame you didn't buy in.

The trolls and their sockpuppets who cry now have missed the train.
They are afraid that Iota gets as a great recognition as Bitcoin.

[achimsmile]

@cryptohunter:
You contradict yourself. You say that the ICO was not transparent, because "Even if there were a list with every username that invested and the amount invested (has been done for other ICO and is a huge improvement over IOTAS) then you can call into question the persons behind each account."

But then you demand to ask the board if iota is a scam or not... without calling into question the persons behind each account? Then such a poll would be useless.

Well you are assuming the % of puppets on this board must be huge in that case. I do not think it is reasonable to think the % of puppets can statistically render a long running poll on the main board totally useless. However it is reasonable to assume enough puppets to drastically reduce a distribution of a very small ICO.

If you could limit a poll to snr or above it would be better.

I only said that an ICO that publishes its investors usernames on a list is more transparent that one that does not publish anything? If 100 legends and 1000 heros were on the list with their amount invested and those accounts confirmed such was true I would personally have more faith than a list that just stated we have 1100 investors from the board with no further details. Are you saying you would not?

Of your you may get a person that assumes there are only 2 members on the board himself and 10000's of puppets run by one other person. He will have a different perception of fair distribution on the board than others.

You need to involve large numbers of accounts to get a reasonable and statistically viable feedback.

Let's discuss it on the main section. Perhaps more people will see it from your POV there?

The amount of socks/puppets could be huge on this board and you have to provide evidence to convince me of the opposite, which is not possible, because any multiple entities can be controlled by one entity in the background without us noticing. That is why distribution does not matter as much as you think, that is why a poll here is of no use.

Your points are just imos.

[cryptohunter]

@cryptohunter, How much time should an ICO spend marketing itself before the actual ICO?

IOTA was announced on October 21, 2015. The crowdsale was opened on November 25th, 2015 and lasted until December 21st, 2015.

If I recall correctly (and I do), there were multiple threads about iota on bitcointalk and there were also several articles published on the main crypto websites.

You even posted on the iota thread before the crowdsale:

quantum computer proof does sound handy and I very much like the name.

So that's an entire month of publicity before the crowdsale. As well as an entire month of publicity during the month-long crowdsale.

So what more can you ask for?? You knew about iota before the crowdsale, so it's a shame you didn't buy in.

The trolls and their sockpuppets who cry now have missed the train.
They are afraid that Iota gets as a great recognition as Bitcoin.

I have to exclude you for now because although I'm sure you have a valid point it's not what I'm specifically talking about.  I am asking if the ICO was given enough publicity to be considered fair opportunity for ALL on the board.

We can not base all decisions and opinions on our personal gain or loss only and in one instance. Future ICO's should take note of a set of rules the entire board can decide on. I am merely asking should we use IOTA as example of how not to run an ICO as with NXT you end up with a tiny % owning all the tokens and trying to sell them to others for 3000% who missed this ICO - this is even before release or any real testing and trading on exchanges. This breeds malcontent and accusations of scams.

If you don't wish to discuss the ICO and make realistic enquiry as to what % were aware of the ICO whilst the ICO was taking place. Then that is fine. However I am assuming you will all wish to make best use of the main board when it come to pre-release or is then released on exchange.

You're all saying IOTA did as much as reasonably expected to market the ICO before and during the ICO
Let's for instance put a poll up for instance say after the LISK ICO is finished and see what % heard about the LISK ICO and what % heard about the Iota ICO.  

The biggest coins with ICO before like Ethereum, NEM, MAID  even dare I say BITBAY - everyone knew about them on the entire board for ages.

Ethereum has POW to distribute even further.

Coming from the NXT people this lesson should have been learned.

[cryptohunter]

@cryptohunter:
You contradict yourself. You say that the ICO was not transparent, because "Even if there were a list with every username that invested and the amount invested (has been done for other ICO and is a huge improvement over IOTAS) then you can call into question the persons behind each account."

But then you demand to ask the board if iota is a scam or not... without calling into question the persons behind each account? Then such a poll would be useless.

Well you are assuming the % of puppets on this board must be huge in that case. I do not think it is reasonable to think the % of puppets can statistically render a long running poll on the main board totally useless. However it is reasonable to assume enough puppets to drastically reduce a distribution of a very small ICO.

If you could limit a poll to snr or above it would be better.

I only said that an ICO that publishes its investors usernames on a list is more transparent that one that does not publish anything? If 100 legends and 1000 heros were on the list with their amount invested and those accounts confirmed such was true I would personally have more faith than a list that just stated we have 1100 investors from the board with no further details. Are you saying you would not?

Of your you may get a person that assumes there are only 2 members on the board himself and 10000's of puppets run by one other person. He will have a different perception of fair distribution on the board than others.

You need to involve large numbers of accounts to get a reasonable and statistically viable feedback.

Let's discuss it on the main section. Perhaps more people will see it from your POV there?

The amount of socks/puppets could be huge on this board and you have to provide evidence to convince me of the opposite, which is not possible, because any multiple entities can be controlled by one entity in the background without us noticing. That is why distribution does not matter as much as you think, that is why a poll here is of no use.

Your points are just imos.

1. the onus is not on me to prove the ico was gamed. It is on the devs and those running the ICO to show some attempt at providing fair opportunity.
2. Even if your point was correct (which it can not be) then this is further reason for all ICO to be banned from here since there is no way to provide proof there was not gross manipulation. POW with fair release protocol should always be followed.

We can not go into the realms of crazy assumptions that the entire board is only 2 members with 10000 of puppets each.


POW is clearly a more suitable method for fair distribution. If an ICO must take place there should be attempt at reasonable transparency , reasonable advertising and awarness and POW should be used as additional tool for part of the distribution process.

[runall]

@cryptohunter:

None of the serious participants of Iota project in this or another thread will discuss the ICO of Iota. It is already history. Throughout the month there was a possibility to become a member of "movement". So did I and other Iota participants. Now the train is gone and the ICO is over a long time ago. It's not a theme for discussion and will not be ever. Someone can now also cry about the impossibility of bitcoin mining on CPU as at the end of 2009. It's impossible and will not be ever possible also.

Again: please stop flood here about Lisk. It's another project.

[illodin]

It's likely that many people saw the threads about the token and crowdsale, but didn't bother reading, or didn't understand it, or dismissed it as being just another shitcoin ICO pump, or were planning to buy after it dumps below ICO like every other ICO coin. Perhaps the no-blockchain paradigm was too radical for most. Only after the price gets high and profits are missed the outcry will begin. If no one would care about IOTA now there would be no complaints either so IOTA fans should take that as a compliment.

[cryptohunter]

@cryptohunter:

None of the serious participants of Iota project in this or another thread will discuss the ICO of Iota. It is already history. Throughout the month there was a possibility to become a member of "movement". So did I and other Iota participants. Now the train is gone and the ICO is over a long time ago. It's not a theme for discussion and will not be ever. Someone can now also cry about the impossibility of bitcoin mining on CPU as at the end of 2009. It's impossible and will not be ever possible also.

Again: please stop flood here about Lisk. It's another project.

I'm not attempting to flood with LISK.

I mention it as a comparison only to Iota in terms of marketing previous and during the ICO.

I do not make comment on it in any other respect. It is for everyone to do their own research.

[smooth]

It's not a theme for discussion and will not be ever.

/facepalm

That's the great thing about unmoderated threads, isn't it?

[cryptohunter]

It's likely that many people saw the threads about the token and crowdsale, but didn't bother reading, or didn't understand it, or dismissed it as being just another shitcoin ICO pump, or were planning to buy after it dumps below ICO like every other ICO coin. Perhaps the no-blockchain paradigm was too radical for most. Only after the price gets high and profits are missed the outcry will begin. If no one would care about IOTA now there would be no complaints either so IOTA fans should take that as a compliment.

Likely is not something one can correctly assess without closer examination.

These are all possibilities. One can only guess at this point. However, I would take one point at a time from this statement break it down and argue that each is very unlikely.

This is not for me to say. The best thing is a discussion in the main forum for people to relay their experience with iota and the iota ico.

Fans of iota tokens idea may not be fans of iota's ICO.

All these points can be discussed and fleshed out as well as the jinn / new processor / the issues others have raised with the tokens design - all can be taken to the main forum for a mass discussion.

If there is nothing to fear then you can all come over to the main section and we'll thrash out all points to their finest details.

A healthy discussion/debate sticking to the facts is good publicity for Iota if there is nothing at all to hide. You should all welcome it.

[runall]

It's not a theme for discussion and will not be ever.

/facepalm

That's the great thing about unmoderated threads, isn't it?

Yeah pal. If you want you can surely discuss what you have not reached in the past, but you can never ever catch the train which gone for a long time. It's gone forever. ICO was open to the public declared and took one month. Who wanted got in.
Therefore, the discussion about come back in November 2015 doesn't make any sense for me.

[smooth]

Only after the price gets high and profits are missed the outcry will begin.

Not really. I criticized iotatoken's deceptive hype and pumping even before ICO, starting here in October along with several follow up posts on the same thread.

Nothing has changed, except a few more people are saying the same thing now, that is all.

It makes no real difference to me whether the price is high or low, though I will agree with you that if the coin were completely dead no one would be discussing it, obviously.

[cryptohunter]

It's not a theme for discussion and will not be ever.

/facepalm

That's the great thing about unmoderated threads, isn't it?

Yeah pal. If you want you can surely discuss what you have not reached in the past, but you can never ever catch the train which gone for a long time. It's gone forever. ICO was open to the public declared and took one month. Who wanted got in.
Therefore, the discussion about come back in November 2015 doesn't make any sense for me.

It need not make sense to one person it needs to make sense to the entire board. This is why we need discussion on the main forum.

I am preparing a nice thread for everyone to discuss only the facts concerning Iota. There we can compare to other ICO's conducted and discuss improvements for future ICO's. Iota is just one ICO others have adopted a different and more public approach like LISK. Let's hear what the board thinks regarding these two styles of conducting an ICO.

1. mass advertising before and during the ICO - via huge sig campaigns, facebook , twitter. Lots of posts on the main board.
2. hmmm none of the above. - However i doubt a shortage of pumping advertising in all of those areas after ICO.

I must have seen 5 x we've joined with microsoft threads on the main board . Yes 5 seperate threads on the same day??

Nxt2 is not acceptable.

[iotatoken]

It's not a theme for discussion and will not be ever.

/facepalm

That's the great thing about unmoderated threads, isn't it?

Yeah pal. If you want you can surely discuss what you have not reached in the past, but you can never ever catch the train which gone for a long time. It's gone forever. ICO was open to the public declared and took one month. Who wanted got in.
Therefore, the discussion about come back in November 2015 doesn't make any sense for me.

It need not make sense to one person it needs to make sense to the entire board. This is why we need discussion on the main forum.

I am preparing a nice thread for everyone to discuss only the facts concerning Iota. There we can compare to other ICO's conducted and discuss improvements for future ICO's. Iota is just one ICO others have adopted a different and more public approach like LISK. Let's hear what the board thinks regarding these two styles of conducting an ICO.

1. mass advertising before and during the ICO - via huge sig campaigns, facebook , twitter. Lots of posts on the main board.
2. hmmm none of the above. - However i doubt a shortage of pumping advertising in all of those areas after ICO.

I must have seen 5 x we've joined with microsoft threads on the main board . Yes 5 seperate threads on the same day??

Nxt2 is not acceptable.

Troll please get a life, no one cares, not one single person in the universe cares about your trolling.

Everyone gets it: you are sad that you didn't buy into the ICO, that's life. That's why you are desperately trying to start some 'drama' to push for a second ICO. You even made a thread about it the other day that no one cared about. Sorry, but it won't happen. We have FULL legal right to innovate and execute a brand new technology, hold a software sale for it and be successful with it. We had several hundred people participate in our 100% open sale, you didn't see the potential at the time? TOO BAD for you.

We announced IOTA 1 month prior to sale, then ran a sale for 27 days, it was completely open and known about on this forum, other crypto forums, reddit, several crypto websites did articles on it, including Cointelegraph, TheDailyDecrypt did a piece, it was announced in all the big crypto slacks. Why else do you think we raised over $530,000 at a time that was PRIOR to Bitcoin boost and Ethereum boost, in other words: market was a lot more dry.

But it's true, we did not take the approach of Lisk. We REFUSED to spend a cent on paid advertisements out of principle. We did not spam the forum or encourage people to make IOTA their signature. Why? Because we only wanted genuine holders. This is why I have acted downright condescending towards speculators before the sale even started. You act as if you have some sort of intrinsic RIGHT to own everything in the world, newsflash entitled prick: YOU DON'T.

So here's what you should do now: stop your pity party and do something useful with your life, you are genuinely pathetic. I don't understand how people like yourself manage to wake up in the morning and get out of bed. It's genuinely sad to think about.

[iotatoken]

Only after the price gets high and profits are missed the outcry will begin.

Not really. I criticized iotatoken's deceptive hype and pumping even before ICO, starting here in October along with several follow up posts on the same thread.

Nothing has changed, except a few more people are saying the same thing now, that is all.

It makes no real difference to me whether the price is high or low, though I will agree with you that if the coin were completely dead no one would be discussing it, obviously.

Deceptive hype? Haha, smooth you are pathetic. I never hyped IOTA one bit. You know this full well, you know so well that I have been negative towards speculators from day 1, stop lying you insufferable waste of space. The quote you linked to was about IoT's impact on the world in general: if you think Industry 4.0 won't be a revolution unlike anything humanity has ever seen, well then you are not up to date, which explains how you missed IOTA crowdsale and now feel sour.

This is my last reply to you and here is my final question: How do you not succumb to shame and disgust at yourself given the provable pathetic behaviour of yourself? I have always had a fascination for psychology and your answer would be very interesting and thus much appreciated, thanks.